Dissection?

[NStarz]

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Does anyone else not like dissections? I think they're interesting and all, and I can definitely see their importance in veterinary school, but I'm not really a fan. Maybe it's beacuse my vert zoology professor is so careless with life. The animals are more appealing to me *alive.* Does that make me a minority?

 

[nohika]

I think I agree right now simply because I have so little dissection experience (well, and lack of experience with dead animals). I suppose once I get more "used" to dead animals (if you ever do) it will be easier to do the dissection, I think.

Allthingsequine used a really good quote in another thread - "The way you overcome shyness is to become so wrapped up in something that you forget to be afraid."

I think this can be used to being nervous, too. I start being nervous and then once you get so wrapped up in all the cool details, you forget how nervous you were to begin with.

Edit: I agree with Blackat, too. I didn't mean I didn't prefer them alive. xD

 

[BlacKAT33]

The animals are more appealing to me *alive.* Does that make me a minority?

i'm pretty sure everyone on here likes animals alive. its two completely different things. this also brings up the point of dissection for just general education or a necropsy. ojeez this is going to start a huge discussion lol but ya, just because a lot of us find dissections/necropsy interesting doesnt mean we wouldnt rather have the animal alive!

 

[NStarz]

I'm not so much nervous as I am emotionally drained from the experience. The fact that an animal gave its life so I could cut it open sits a little odd with me. I'm pretty sure I'll get used to the experience in vet school, but I'm not really sure if I want to get used to it (if that makes any sense).

Edit: Blackat, thanks. That makes sense to me. I can *appreciate* dissections, especially their value in learning anatomy, etc. But my vert zoo class is so completely opposite anything ever seen in vet schools, and that's really all the experience I've had with dissections. It must be a different experience when everyone is respecting the animal instead of violating it.

 

[BlacKAT33]

It must be a different experience when everyone is respecting the animal instead of violating it.

definitely. at my penn tour they actually took us into the anatomy lab and we saw the students studying their different animals. they were all really into it and labeling things out loud, explaining the different paths, and you could tell they really appreciated what they were learning.

im not sure what you've seen and how they are "violating" it, this is sad. i hope that deep down they do appreciate what they are doing and maybe they just talk/do stuff if they are nervous about the situation.

 

[marycatherine]

I try to think about it as something that I really need to know. If you do a dissection, learn as much as you possibly can from it so that the animal died for you to actually grow as a veterinarian/student/person. To be a vet, you really do need to be able to visualize, touch, cut, feel, manipulate, and really understand all the stuff that goes on inside an animal. While it is unfortunate that animals have to die for dissections, I really don't think anything else can compare.

 

[Wycolo]

Here is my view on it. You'll dissect several animals in vet school. Let be generous and say 5. How many animals will you serve as a veterinarian after vet school? 10,000 maybe a 100,000 over 30-40 years using knowledge from those 5 animals. Seems like a fair tradeoff.

 

[CanadianGolden]

Also, all of these animals were slated for euthanasia anyway. They would have died regardless of whether or not we dissect them. So, at least they are able to serve a purpose and their death makes a contribution to something rather than their lives being entirely wasted.

 

[luplodw]

Also, all of these animals were slated for euthanasia anyway. They would have died regardless of whether or not we dissect them. So, at least they are able to serve a purpose and their death makes a contribution to something rather than their lives being entirely wasted.

Some schools actually raise animals for this very purpose though (and terminal surgeries). They never even had a chance

 

[sumstorm]

Some schools actually raise animals for this very purpose though (and terminal surgeries). They never even had a chance

Are there schools that raise just for euth? I thought the ones that raised used the animals for research, then processed through the learning programs.

Also, many times the reaons schools go for bred/raised is because of articles about how someone's beloved pet ended up in a shelter then was used for research....etc....

 

[BriannaWV]

Back in middle school and high school I didn't really like doing them because of the fact they raised the animals just to kill them and let us tear them apart, but after the necropsy of the horse yesterday I have a whole different perspective on it. I don't mind it if the animal was euthanized for a good reason; such as an illness or inability to do normal functions such as walk (like that horse). I don't really enjoy the thought of that animal being raised to be killed and dissected, but if the animal lived a good life or was supposed to live a good life but was unable to do so due to medical reasons, I'm fine with dissecting that animal.

 

[sumstorm]

I don't really enjoy the thought of that animal being raised to be killed and dissected, but if the animal lived a good life or was supposed to live a good life but was unable to do so due to medical reasons, I'm fine with dissecting that animal.

I have to say that dissecting animals that will be euthanized anyways, such as shelter dogs that are not adopted, doesn't bother me. I wish there weren't so many excess animals in our country, and hope that some day we will all need donor cadavers to learn on...but until then, I am ok with shelter sourcing of unadopted animals.

 

[PrimalMU]

I absolutely love dissections. It really doesn't bother me at all, to be honest. We raise animals to eat, and we raise animals to learn. At the end of the day they are both killed/euthanized, and they both serve a purpose.

I think most professors do indeed value life. However, don't confuse desensitization with being careless with life. I know most of us here have made a joke or two when euthanizing a patient -- its not that we are callous, its merely one of the many ways people deal with such situations.

And, as it has already been said, preserve cats and dogs are obtained from shelters and were due to be euthanized anyway. At least now they can serve a higher purpose. Granted, in the case of my comparative vertebrate anatomy class, the shark and salamander we are studying were bred for this purpose. However, the lives of these animals aren't in vain when we can learn from them. Sure, it'd be nice to be able to just study a picture in a lab manual, but I think we can all agree that its nowhere near the same as actually jumping in and digging through a cadaver.

 

[NStarz]

You guys are so awesome. Thanks for all the replies--they make me feel much better about dissections.

I'd like to clarify that the students aren't disrespectful towards the cadavers, it is mainly this one professor. He threw fish out (after he killed them) because they didn't contain any parasites and he's killed birds in class, too. Not my cup of tea.

 

[NStarz]

I absolutely love dissections. It really doesn't bother me at all, to be honest. We raise animals to eat, and we raise animals to learn. At the end of the day they are both killed/euthanized, and they both serve a purpose.

PrimalMU, I agree with most of what you said, but not this. While one can debate the needs of people to eat meat (which I don't want to do here), one can argue that there is little value in allowing a 7th grader to cut open an animal to learn. Most people will not be going into science or medicine, and therefore I think that most of that can be done with a sophisticated model. Veterinary dissections are different (as they are serving a direct purpose in educating future doctors).

When we eat animals (wheter or not you believe in that), we are fulfilling a biological need. The food pyramid and all that jazz. But killing of an animal for learning purposes, one can argue, does not fill a biological need and can therefore not be compared in the safe way. I totally respect your opinion, though! To each his own.

Sorry, didn't mean to add to a debate already done to death 😉

 

[sumstorm]

While one can debate the needs of people to eat meat (which I don't want to do here), one can argue that there is little value in allowing a 7th grader to cut open an animal to learn. Most people will not be going into science or medicine, and therefore I think that most of that can be done with a sophisticated model. Veterinary dissections are different (as they are serving a direct purpose in educating future doctors).

When we eat animals (wheter or not you believe in that), we are fulfilling a biological need. The food pyramid and all that jazz. But killing of an animal for learning purposes, one can argue, does not fill a biological need and can therefore not be compared in the safe way. I totally respect your opinion, though! To each his own.

I might argue that in todays society, which lacks connections to the agrarian systems that feed us, there may actually be some value in youths realizing that things actually lose their life for our benefit. Amazes me how many folks really aren't aware of things like that.

We sacrifice animals just by living in homes, driving cars, etc...we just don't think about going back to hunter/gatherer subsistance living isn't very convenient or comfortable.

 

[PrimalMU]

What about that 7th grader who gets to dissect a frog, become enamored with biology, and goes on to cure some horrible disease? We can't stop doing things simply because there's no guarantee that something good will come of it. If that were the case, then we'd have to shut down all research period.

 

[jtom]

This is a tough issue but I think with anything in life you will get used to it after you do it a few times.

 

[rileydog]

one can argue that there is little value in allowing a 7th grader to cut open an animal to learn. Most people will not be going into science or medicine, and therefore I think that most of that can be done with a sophisticated model. Veterinary dissections are different (as they are serving a direct purpose in educating future doctors).

I agree. I did not learn much from high school and even undergrad dissections that I could not have learned from a book and/or computer simulation. I don't agree with doing dissections in middle and high school. In general, the students are too immature, don't appreciate the value of the life given and spend more time playing with the animal and grossing out their peers. Also, sometimes you are required to do dissections, no matter what your future interest. What does someone interested in business or art, etc. get out of a dissection? I never liked dissections, but I finally feel that we are at a point where we can appreciate the sacrifice of the life and actually learn from the experience.

Off topic: NStarz - I love your profile pic. That puppy is so cute! I was wondering if it is a wheaten?

 

[BriannaWV]

I have to say that dissecting animals that will be euthanized anyways, such as shelter dogs that are not adopted, doesn't bother me. I wish there weren't so many excess animals in our country, and hope that some day we will all need donor cadavers to learn on...but until then, I am ok with shelter sourcing of unadopted animals.

I actually never thought about that. You make a good point and I agree with you totally!!! Volunteering at an animal shelter I saw how many dogs and cats got dumped there and how swamped they were with trying to deal with the huge amount of homeless pets, you can't save them all and I am totally fine with using unadopted animals, at least they weren't just left in a dumpster to be taken to the local dump...

Is that where a lot of places get their cats and dogs?

 

[NStarz]

Off topic: NStarz - I love your profile pic. That puppy is so cute! I was wondering if it is a wheaten?

Wheaten terrier all the way! I love wheatens!

 

[rileydog]

Wheaten terrier all the way! I love wheatens!

😍And Wheatables too! Riley is a Wheaten and Chow mix

 

[DVMDream]

I have to say that dissecting animals that will be euthanized anyways, such as shelter dogs that are not adopted, doesn't bother me. I wish there weren't so many excess animals in our country, and hope that some day we will all need donor cadavers to learn on...but until then, I am ok with shelter sourcing of unadopted animals.

I am going to have to agree with sumstorm here. If the animal has already been slated for euthanasia then dissecting and learning from that animal is giving purpose to that animal's life. As someone else mentioned...the death of 4 or 5 animals to potenitally save thousands is worth it. I also wish there were not so many unwanted animals in this country, but since there is I am ok with them being used for educational purposes (better than being shoved in a gas chamber and then tossed into a landfill). I do not feel ok with raising of animals for the sole purpose of killing them to learn when there are already plenty of unwanted animals sitting in shelters just waiting for something to happen.

If you really feel uncomfortable with the euthanasia of healthy animals for educational purposes then look into Western's WAVE program. All of the animals Western uses for dissections were donated to this program after the animal died from natural causes/euthanized because of a specific disease. I really like this program.