Diversity really considered?

[whiteE8]

hi, all..
i've heard that diversity is a very important factor that dental schools consider when screening their applicants into IDP.
so does that mean that coming from a "rare" country would benefit one's acceptance though his/her stats aren't too competitive??
let's say...if there is an applicant from Ireland. and his/her nbd part 1 is like...less than 80. and his/her interview was pretty good. gpa around 3.0. what do you guys think? any opinions?

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[gsmm]

hi white, i dont think below 80 can get admission anywhere these days, i dont mean to upset u but i think repeating part 1 will help most then the diversity can help to an extend

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by whiteE8

let's say...if there is an applicant from Ireland. and his/her nbd part 1 is like...less than 80. and his/her interview was pretty good. gpa around 3.0. what do you guys think? any opinions?

less than 80?? I would like to see that.

But in general, yes. Like kpat mentioned in some other thread, if schools were only to take into account the scores, then all students will be from India.

At my interview my ethnicity got acknowledge several times, not only by interviewers but by school staff as well. Remember I was one among 30+ Indians.

Just take a look at the ethnicity poll and you'll notice yourself!

 

[toothlord]

meggs,i noticed your acceptance at the UOP and there at the UOP or UCSF i thought there is no diversity based programme like the one at Upen,so do you think that one differnt ethinicity will weigh his resume up ?the competition is so tense and i think rare species like us need some privilages.

 

[krishhhhh]

hi,
as far as i know not all the program are too concerned about the diversity. only few like upenn is very particular about the diversity. And i think getting in any program with a score of 80 is little tough. But there are some chances. And i think if u give the part one again, it will be very good for you.
I am not discouraging you but i think u understood what i mean.

All the best

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by toothlord
meggs,i noticed your acceptance at the UOP and there at the UOP or UCSF i thought there is no diversity based programme like the one at Upen,so do you think that one differnt ethinicity will weigh his resume up ?the competition is so tense and i think rare species like us need some privilages.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.


But anyhow, if if makes anyone feel better, at my interview there were Indians with my same low score (84) and they were also interviewed somewhere else.

 

[yasi]

meggs
would you please tell me about your gpa and toefl scores
and which other universities did yu apply
again congratulation

 

[toothlord]

Originally posted by meggs
I'm sorry, but I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.


But anyhow, if if makes anyone feel better, at my interview there were Indians with my same low score (84) and they were also interviewed somewhere else.

oh iam sorry i couldent clarify my thoughts,
anyway my question is : would the fact of different ethnicity of a particular applicant be considered and weigh up his chanses to be accepted at universities as UOP or UCSF although its not a diversity based as Upenn?specially if he was among the rare non indian groups?

 

[yasi]

hi toothlord
can i ask you wehere r you from

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by yasi
meggs
would you please tell me about your gpa and toefl scores
and which other universities did yu apply
again congratulation

take a look at nalili thread and the meticolous list she posted within it.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by toothlord
oh iam sorry i couldent clarify my thoughts,
anyway my question is : would the fact of different ethnicity of a particular applicant be considered and weigh up his chanses to be accepted at universities as UOP or UCSF although its not a diversity based as Upenn?specially if he was among the rare non indian groups?

I don't know. But obviously not at UCSF where they interviewed people with scores as low as mine, Indian people that is. But perhaps they had a better overall application, like more research, volunteer or work experience, better gpa or toefl, I don't know for sure.

Also remember that state schools give preference to state residents, whatever they look like. Let's take that into account.

 

[HIM0098]

Originally posted by toothlord
the competition is so tense and i think rare species like us need some privilages.

_________________________________________


rare species

I will risk my neck and ask... what species are you from...

by the way I am not indian...even though sometimes I wish if I could be one,so I can score high in the exam.

 

[dentaldoc]

I wish I could be one "rare species"! Atleast It cuts down the competetion

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by HIM0098

by the way I am not indian...even though sometimes I wish if I could be one,so I can score high in the exam.

So do I.

 

[HIM0098]

Originally posted by dentaldoc
I wish I could be one "rare species"! Atleast It cuts down the competetion

...you got me there..

 

[toothlord]

Originally posted by yasi
hi toothlord
can i ask you wehere r you from

iam an ancient mesopotamian.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by toothlord
iam an ancient mesopotamian.

And that makes you a......?

 

[sam3]

Originally posted by dentaldoc
I wish I could be one "rare species"! Atleast It cuts down the competetion

 

[sam3]

Originally posted by toothlord
iam an ancient mesopotamian.

Dear Toothlord :

No hard feelings buddy..............I did not know the meaning of this vocabulary befor,but when I read this word "MESOPOTAMIAN" ,I really thought that it is a rare kind of species that does not exist any more.

I rushed to my Medical dictionary,but I could not find it .I did the same thing with my "English-Arabic "dictionary,and the same problem,nothing there .

SO MANY WEIRD THOUGHTS CAME TO MY MIND about it .Finally I could find it in Webster's- II .

 

[whiteE8]

i was wondering which would likely to weigh more when an applicant is considered (in diversity based programs eg. Upenn): his/her ethnicity? or in which country he/she graduated dental school?

 

[toothlord]

Originally posted by meggs
And that makes you a......?

iraqi.

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Toothlord :

No hard feelings buddy..............I did not know the meaning of this vocabulary befor,but when I read this word "MESOPOTAMIAN" ,I really thought that it is a rare kind of species that does not exist any more.

I rushed to my Medical dictionary,but I could not find it .I did the same thing with my "English-Arabic "dictionary,and the same problem,nothing there .

SO MANY WEIRD THOUGHTS CAME TO MY MIND about it .Finally I could find it in Webster's- II .
-----------------------------------------------

thanks for searching buddy.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by toothlord
iraqi.

I guess I need to refresh my world geography. Although all these issues going on the middle east and around on the news, have really helped me.

 

[HIM0098]

Originally posted by whiteE8
i was wondering which would likely to weigh more when an applicant is considered (in diversity based programs eg. Upenn): his/her ethnicity? or in which country he/she graduated dental school?

That is a good Q's...

But according to the meaning of Diversity ..It is only based on ethnicity..so I dont think Upen would care from where you had your degree...let see who had gone through Upenn Interview will say about this ..like Sam3...

By the way, can I ask you where did you get you degree..

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

But according to the meaning of Diversity ..It is only based on ethnicity..so I dont think Upen would care from where you had your degree...let see who had gone through Upenn Interview will say about this ..like Sam3...

i wouldnt agree with that....i think by "diversity" they look for students from various countries rather than their ethnos/race, as after all they call it the "international dentist program"
the concept is pretty creepy (especialy in Upenn) and in contradiction to what they display in their brochures like.." no discrimination will be made on basis of blah blah blah..." which actualy implies that they would give full weightage only to the credibility of the applicant and nothing else! this is not true...as these people seem to have their preallocated quotas to applicants from each country,(definitely not all the 300 odd countries of the world!) and once your country's qouta is filled, no matter how good you are, in comparison to applicants from other "countries" you will be rejected! thats sad and is clearly double standards!
thankfully i didnt apply to Upenn!

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN
i...as these people seem to have their preallocated quotas to applicants from each country,(definitely not all the 300 odd countries of the world!) and once your country's qouta is filled, no matter how good you are, in comparison to applicants from other "countries" you will be rejected!

I disagree. That's from the Indian point of view. I'm a very rare species, beleive me, and if that statement of yours was true, I'll be enrolled in you Upenn right now.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by HIM0098
But according to the meaning of Diversity ..It is only based on ethnicity..so I dont think Uppen would care from where you had your degree...

I agree with you. UPenn or any other school couldn't care less that Meggs as Hispanic, went to school in, for example, China or Russia. I'll still be Hispanic.

The fact is people that everything is about the money. Let's say I'm Meggs Cisneros (a very rich name in Latin America) and I have tons of money to donate for research to some school. I have 3 options:
1. school with no Hispanics students in the research area
2. one Hispanic student in the area.
3. two Hispanics student in the area.

Who do you think my money will go to???

Let's say I plan a future in politics in a state like New Mexico (40% Hispanic population), and I want to impress voters by donating to schools, who do you think my money will go to??
This same example can be used, if the context was Blacks in South Carolina, or Middle Easterns in Michigan.

It's all about the money, they actually couldn't care less about us.

 

[toothlord]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN
i wouldnt agree with that....i think by "diversity" they look for students from various countries rather than their ethnos/race, as after all they call it the "international dentist program"
the concept is pretty creepy (especialy in Upenn) and in contradiction to what they display in their brochures like.." no discrimination will be made on basis of blah blah blah..." which actualy implies that they would give full weightage only to the credibility of the applicant and nothing else! this is not true...as these people seem to have their preallocated quotas to applicants from each country,(definitely not all the 300 odd countries of the world!) and once your country's qouta is filled, no matter how good you are, in comparison to applicants from other "countries" you will be rejected! thats sad and is clearly double standards!
thankfully i didnt apply to Upenn!

i couldent agree with that,when they state that they dont discriminate by sex,race or age,this is true,in this country schools accept people ranging from caucatian to african including hispanic and indians,but to avoid having a so called international programme that include only one or two races whilest it should contain student from all over the world,they developed the diversity thing,and by the way without it many american from asian or latino origin will find it so hard to apply to schools because it would be allready filled up by caucatian, i watched a report on tv about the previous racist regime in south africa,and how they are trying to develope such system of diversity there, i dont know if that is true.

 

[pinktooth]

Hey kajalkiran,
reading your post really made me very depressed..I hope they don't have a quota for Indians..

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

they developed the diversity thing,and by the way without it many american from asian or latino origin will find it so hard to apply to schools because it would be allready filled up by caucatian

well, all that matters to the student/applicant is, whether he/she gets recognition to his/her credibility and nothing more than that....! i bet you know the toil each one goes through to get those amazing scores...yeah! if there are 10 seats in a school and if all the top 10 applicants belong to the same country (not targetting india at all ) then why shouldn't they be given admission? afterall what should matter to the school is whether they get good applicants/students and thats all! so does that mean that the school just needs to prove a point to the world they are "equal oppurtunity..blah blah blah" and deny these people an admission and consider "less qualified" applicants over these "innocent qualified" applicants ??
yes! this should conclude about the international dentist program addmissions....
now coming to the fact that ALL schools in US give sufficient space for people with various ethnos, etc is to enable equalisation of all its citizens mainly.....the similar thing holds good to citizens in my country as well as in india or any other democratic country for the matter; this is basically taking into consideration of the diverse financial abilities/facilities of various applicants and hence the quotas and the relaxations in scores....
BUT in an IDP program especially when each person is ready to pay like 75K a year as fees, i dont think these criteria hold good!
also i guess barring Upenn, no other school is that creepy to deny admissions to qualified applicants! i think the IDP program there, should concentrate more on imparting dental schooling (to qualified applicants) rather than its attempt to impart anthropology or geographical studies by just having one person from every country in the world!!!
ps: coming soon in 2004 admissions for UPenn: "1 seat reserved for a dentist from Mars"!

 

[manishapatel]

That was amazing kajal, i think you are indeed a fire-brand writer!
i wholly agree with the fact the applicant's "credibility" needs more consideration than his nationality or genetic make up!

 

[sam3]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN
]

Hi buddy .I do not wanna missjudge what you wrote here ,but can you please first define the following terms for me,so we can discuss your thoughts .

afterall what should matter to the school is whether they get good applicants/students and thats all!

whom do you think is a "good applicant "in your point of view??

equal oppurtunity..blah blah blah" and deny these people an admission and consider "less qualified" applicants over these "innocent qualified" applicants ??

Same question here .Who is "less qualified applicant " according to you??

BUT in an IDP program especially when each person is ready to pay like 75K a year as fees, i dont think these criteria hold good . also i guess barring Upenn, no other school is that creepy to deny admissions to qualified applicants! i think the IDP program there, should concentrate more on imparting dental schooling (to qualified applicants) rather than its attempt to impart anthropology or geographical studies by just having one person from every country in the world!!!

!

 

[mrinalini]

Hi,
I kept telling myself I would'nt post on this..but I guess I could'nt resist. Firstly lets stop with the school bashing It gives this entire thread..a feeling of "sour grapes"
If you want to practise or study dentistry in a foreign country you will bear the brunt of their application selection process.

Just because you can pay 75k and have a good academic record doesnt mean you are entitled to a seat in Upenn. For me thats the beauty of this education system, it looks at more than just academic records and personal monetary status and rightly so.

In India, I dont know abt SA you get admitted based on your grades, your ability to buy a payment seat and reservation. All three for me are absolutley horrid, you do not decide someone is fit for medical or dental school because he/she has a high grade or his/her daddy's bank balance goes on forever or lastly based on the caste they belong too. You do not deny someone admission because they have low grades either. You have to strike a balance between grades, experience and the person in toto. Every school looks for this balance and something special in their applicants and if you fit the bill you get in.
I dont think Upenn is any different. This school is an " ivy league", and though I have little affection for cliched titles, it can be considered as a mark of quality. They havent got there by taking in substandard students.Infact you should commend them inspite of being an Ivy league they dont choose the easy route and admitt people based on their grades, they are willing to give people a chance to prove themselves.
So lets quit with the ranting about Upenn...and move on to something more constructive.
I'm providing constructive criticism so dont roast me after reading this post
Peace
Mrinalini

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

well this is replying to dear sam's questions:
1. "good applicant" is an applicant who is more credible than others in the heirachy list based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT ETHNICITY OR NATIONALITY.
2. "less qualified applicant" is an applicant who is obviously below this above mentioned "good applicant" in the heirachy list, again specifying that this is based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT GENETIC MAKE UP OR NATIONALITY.
3. " ! " ---was that a question?
coming to m'lini:
hey! am sorry i missed most of what you were trying to convey, as i felt yu were going completely out of context, like dad, mom, bank balance etc etc or may be you didnt understand what i was conveying......
but for the things i've understood from your msg is that no "sour grapes" or "school bashing" (you have little affection for cliched titles here, but i wanna be politically correct) discussion is going on here; this is a forum and each person can have a point of view... discussion is the reason for this forum to exist, and is there a compulsion that i have to like a particular school cuz many of them like it? and roasting you? (lol!) thats what i said that each person can have his/her own point of view......
ps: yeah lemme tell you that ive not applied to Upenn at all !

 

[mrinalini]

[EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT GENETIC MAKE UP OR NATIONALITY.
3. " ! " ---was that a question?
coming to m'lini:
hey! am sorry i missed most of what you were trying to convey, as i felt yu were going completely out of context, like dad, mom, bank balance etc etc or may be you didnt understand what i was conveying......
but for the things i've understood from your msg is that no "sour grapes" or "school bashing" (you have little affection for cliched titles here, but i wanna be politically correct) discussion is going on here; this is a forum and each person can have a point of view... discussion is the reason for this forum to exist, and is there a compulsion that i have to like a particular school cuz many of them like it? and roasting you? (lol!) thats what i said that each person can have his/her own point of view......
ps: yeah lemme tell you that ive not applied to Upenn at all ! [/B][/QUOTE]
Why did i even try....

you need to chill gurl!! you've got so much of energy i'm sure you can put it to better use. Neways i did'nt mean to offend you..i'm outta here...
Cheers
Mrinalini

 

[SJ35]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN

1. "good applicant" is an applicant who is more credible than others in the heirachy list based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT ETHNICITY OR NATIONALITY.
2. "less qualified applicant" is an applicant who is obviously below this above mentioned "good applicant" in the heirachy list, again specifying that this is based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT GENETIC MAKE UP OR NATIONALITY.

Let me disagree with some of your thoughts. First, good academics, NDBE scores, research exp, etc. doesn't mean a person will be so good in clinical work. So if somebody has a low GPA, or haven't done any research work before, but has a good clinical experience, he/she is as good aplicant, as others.

 

[HIM0098]

[/QUOTE]
Why did i even try....

you need to chill gurl!! you've got so much of energy i'm sure you can put it to better use. Neways i did'nt mean to offend you..i'm outta here...
Cheers
Mrinalini [/QUOTE]
____________________________________________

I think we all get what you meant Mrinalini, but when ones is so much engross in his/hers own belief and only see the light form one direction is kinda hard for that person to accept any light coming from different direction...

KAJALKIRAN : With your wish/demand in how the application process to be done, is that no university should give a chance to anyone with low IQ or even a slow learner. So who need them, right .They are a waste to a good seat that could have gone to a better, smarter, much evolved individual. You are entiltled to express your mind. But I wonder if you truly see the whole picture.

By the way ,I am a supporter of the Affirmative Action ruling of the supreme court , without it, we will end up having a nation with only one race/mind superior.

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

hey HIM0098...
i admire your abilities to immediately pounce and try to "advice" me and infact trying to "enforce" your ideas upon me ! i mean why should i think the way you think? i understand if you have a different opinion and respect it and i have no intentions to enforce my ideas upon you...i have my own point of view and can express it the way i want to do it...but why are you so hell bent upon enforcing your thoughts upon me? well i want to maintain a professional outlook here and wouldn't want to dissect your message any further, though its so really inviting! chill dude! allow me to think the way i want to think...
hey m'lini....
same story again! advising me as to how to channelise out my energy, but thanks for the compliment that i do have lotsa energy!
ps: please dont send mssgs like "dont be offended ..." etc etc....this is a forum out for discussion and we all are pretty professional to respect each one's opinions and ideas...

 

[manishapatel]

This is a good discussion going here. I can agree with kajal's view of ascribing the candidate's credibility as the main factor to obtain a seat, and not be punished simply because the candidate hails from a nationality or ethnicity which is a majority, which is not his fault! HIM and mrinalini, i can also empathise your views that people from various countries and ethnicities be given a chance, but is it a fault among indians that they end up with such high scores? if there are other people with great scores then they should definitely be given their due, but not simply because of diluting the indian factor in the seat pool......again this is my point of view which I am expressing, which i think everyone should have a chance to do so!
cheers!
manisha

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN
ps: coming soon in 2004 admissions for UPenn: "1 seat reserved for a dentist from Mars"!

If they can't find a dentist from Mars in UPenn or any other school and they pick you, will you be willing to work an fulfill the needs of the Martian comunity afterwards? You know....wearing a green alien costume so they don't feel different, learning their martian language, etc.

This discussion is sooo hilarious.....

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

This discussion is sooo hilarious.....

i know....am figuring it out...

 

[sam3]

Originally posted by KAJALKIRAN
well this is replying to dear sam's questions:
1. "good applicant" is an applicant who is more credible than others in the heirachy list based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT ETHNICITY OR NATIONALITY.
2. "less qualified applicant" is an applicant who is obviously below this above mentioned "good applicant" in the heirachy list, again specifying that this is based on his/her ACADEMICS, NBDE SCORES, RESEARCH EXP, ETC ETC AND NOT GENETIC MAKE UP OR NATIONALITY.
3. " ! " ---was that a question?
!

Okay !!! Take a look at the list Mrinalini posted .I have scores among the lowest in all 3 sections:NDBE,GPA & TOEFL. I have No research experience at all & no post graduate studies,BUT I do have the ETC ETC you mentioned.

Can I understand from your definitions that you consider me as a "less qualified applicant " ??? or less credible in your HEIRACHY LIST???

 

[SJ35]

Well, by the poll about the age I can see that most Indians come here directly after the dental school, with fresh knowlege of all basic sciences. I have been out of school for 13 years. But all those years I worked clinical work as a dentist. My GPA is low, I don't have any research work. I have hard time studying for NDBE and don't think I will score too high (well, we'll see).But I don't think that makes me a worse candidate for a dental school here. As I said before, good GPA or NDBE score doesn't mean that person is going to be so good in clinical work. So if some school consider this, it is only a good thing.

 

[sam3]

Ya I have a lot to talk about.am just waiting for KAJALKIRAN to answer my last question and then we talk .

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

am just waiting for KAJALKIRAN to answer my last question and then we talk .

oh mannn! not again! how many questions do you wanna ask me? i thought this was a discussion going on, to express each one's views about the importance of diversity in admissions,.....why are you getting to the personal level and asking me to evaluate your credibility as an applicant? i think you best should know what you are! does my opinion make a differnce? also mann ive nothing against you out here or with yur admissions and i was one among the people who congratulated you for your acceptance to Upenn.... coming to clinical skills of each person, yeah a number of schools do provide you the oppurtunity in their dextrity tests to prove your mettle in this regard, so why bring the diversity factor again to dilute the credibility factor? also, i myself can say am a minority out here but i definitely donwant an admission cuz of that, lemme get an acceptance based on my credibility...! ending this msg with a friendly hug to sam, if you even care to!

 

[sam3]

ending this msg with a friendly hug to sam, if you even care to!

Sure I care .I was draging you .Just tell me ???can I get a hug & + a kiss as a bonus????.

Watch out!!!!!
1- If you said :Yes ..........then you can get rid of me.
2-If you said : No..........I will start my questions over & over&................over again .


VIP : If you fall in my dream girl category which is a rare spicies( snow white,chubby,redhead &blue eyes with some freckles on cheeks ) then you only have choise no#1 ,coz choise is not granted in this case.

 

[kpat]

Originally posted by meggs
But in general, yes. Like kpat mentioned in some other thread, if schools were only to take into account the scores, then all students will be from India.

__________________________________________________

No, I did not say everyone will be from INDIA, just that everyone will be from the same part of the world

People from China and middleeast score extremely high, too.

Don't want anyone to misunderstand my statement...........as it seems to happen here often.......




kpat

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by kpat
No, I did not say everyone will be from INDIA, just that everyone will be from the same part of the world

Sorry about that. I was relying only in my memory. I guess I remember it wrong.

 

[kpat]

Originally posted by meggs
Sorry about that. I was relying only in my memory. I guess I remember it wrong.

No worries....it wasn't about you.....

kpat

 

[KAJALKIRAN]

can I get a hug & + a kiss as a bonus????.

creepy.....! i said only a friendly hug....trying to hook someone for valentines huh? how tall are you? if you are taller than me (5'10) only then proceed...but first you got to fight out my boyfriend.....what say?

 

[sam3]

Am 5'8 and do not worry it is just a joke