dmd/PhD

[baseballplayer9]

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I got an email from the dental school I will be attending next year about the combined PhD program and a little info about the financial assistance that goes along with it. I have been doing research for over a year and enjoy it, but do you guys think it would be worth the extra 3-4 years for free school and stipend? Is this program really only for people who are serious about pursuing an academic Career? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[UltimateHombre]

I got an email from the dental school I will be attending next year about the combined PhD program and a little info about the financial assistance that goes along with it. I have been doing research for over a year and enjoy it, but do you guys think it would be worth the extra 3-4 years for free school and stipend? Is this program really only for people who are serious about pursuing an academic Career? Any input would be appreciated.

In my opinion, this is probably one of the best ways to fund your dental career. It doesn't restrict your living situations like HPSP or NHSC would. During the process you could probably work as adjunct faculty at the dental school or moonlight on the weekends. Then when all is said and done, you are debt free and have a PhD.

I guess it would depend on the amount of stipend given and if you are actually interested in it. Also, it's not like you have to be an academic dentist... sure it will set you up nicely for that tract, but you can do whatever you want after you graduate.

 

[Bereno]

Yeah, I got that email as well... I will have to look more into it to try and find the value of it for me. Let me know if you get any additional info on it! 😀

 

[baseballplayer9]

I will for sure Bereno! let me know if you hear anything as well. I will probably call on Monday to get some more info. I'll let you know what I find out!

 

[Bereno]

I will for sure Bereno! let me know if you hear anything as well. I will probably call on Monday to get some more info. I'll let you know what I find out!

If I hear anything, I will be sure to fill you in or forward you the info. Thanks man!

 

[wired202808]

I got an email from the dental school I will be attending next year about the combined PhD program and a little info about the financial assistance that goes along with it. I have been doing research for over a year and enjoy it, but do you guys think it would be worth the extra 3-4 years for free school and stipend? Is this program really only for people who are serious about pursuing an academic Career? Any input would be appreciated.

I think its an awesome deal if you intend on staying on as a professor at a d-school. however if you plan to practice it is really a longer time constraint and while it pays for itself it offers no real world dental experience and would shorten you're career as a GP. It also prevents you from specializing.

Ultimately the choice is between paying for d-school and working for that money back or getting a free ride but having to be a prof instead of working with actual patients (excluding clinics in the school, but referring to working in private care.) Just depends on your taste of dentistry.

 

[UCLAzy]

I think its an awesome deal if you intend on staying on as a professor at a d-school. however if you plan to practice it is really a longer time constraint and while it pays for itself it offers no real world dental experience and would shorten you're career as a GP. It also prevents you from specializing.

Ultimately the choice is between paying for d-school and working for that money back or getting a free ride but having to be a prof instead of working with actual patients (excluding clinics in the school, but referring to working in private care.) Just depends on your taste of dentistry.

no offense but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. is unbelievable how uninformed people parade their opinion as fact on this board.

you can specialize and most research faculty practice 2x a week in their own practice here at ucla. that said the phd is not a smart choice if you don't plan on doing researchas a career. things like the army and nh whatever scholarships have you repay your time by w working and building your skills...the phd builds a whole different set of unuseable skills if you don't remain in the research realm. you will be leagues behind your colleagues in speed and confidence upon graduation

 

[thewobblytooth]

Only few DDS/PhD programs will fund your tuition 100%, health insurance, and stipend support. UMich is one of them. As UCLAzy said, it's only useful if you plan to use it later on. It also depends on the type of person you are. If you've never done research and don't understand the commitment you're making, I don't think it's wise to "sign up" for it.

Remember, most DDS/PhDs only do one or the other full time. I know at UMich they have a faculty clinic where their professors work there a few times a week for extra income. If you enjoy academia, then maybe this will be a good route for you.

Another thing to keep in mind is the research funding. Every year NIH shrinks the amount of grants it's willing to award to labs. This makes it highly competitive to maintain the lab and fund the PhD students and Post-Docs that do the full grunt of your research.

From a financial standpoint, I think it's a great way to finance your dental education. Interest accrues at 7.9% the moment we pick up the loans. You better pray you find an associate job that pays at least 100K to tackle those debts. Or specialize.

On a side note, the 2 most recent grads at UMich's DDS/PhD program got into Endo and OS. Yes, you can specialize.

 

[deodorant]

no offense but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. is unbelievable how uninformed people parade their opinion as fact on this board.

you can specialize and most research faculty practice 2x a week in their own practice here at ucla. that said the phd is not a smart choice if you don't plan on doing researchas a career. things like the army and nh whatever scholarships have you repay your time by w working and building your skills...the phd builds a whole different set of unuseable skills if you don't remain in the research realm. you will be leagues behind your colleagues in speed and confidence upon graduation

Holy s**t, you're actually right about this one.

The PhD definitely helps to specialize (if you are in the era of board scores and got a relatively decent score). But here's the tradeoff, during the combined program and after attaining the DDS/DMD, almost all of the work you'll be doing will be in lab. As a student during the research stage of the combined program, you'll probably only do one day a week of clinical. This is perfect if you want to stay in academia/research, but terrible if you want to go into private practice (you're pretty much stuck in school for at least 8 years).

 

[DavesNotHere]

What if you were able to do this and then go into a residency that didnt really use dental clinical skills like anesthesiology, ortho, omfs? Does anyone do that?

 

[GO BABY GO]

All I can say is good luck getting your LOR's for specialty from the dental school that you are doing your dmd/phd at. The reason for the dmd/phd is to push out more dental faculty not specialists. Yes, you can specialize with a phd but do realize you will be in school a very long long (10-14 years) time and will have trouble finding dental faculty to support your decision to specialize instead of teach.

Oh, I also forgot to mention that getting a phd is hell

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Don't go dmd/PhD if you're just trying to find a free ride through dental school. A PhD requires real genuine interest in research and academia.

 

[kaDa]

Don't let money blind where your actual interests lie...most of your other classmates will graduate, start honing their skills and doing what they wanna do with their time. You'll be in a lab that you don't care about. For four years. I have friends who did PhD programs primarily because they got a stipend and many of them aren't happy...being in a lab takes a certain type of personality and it isn't exactly the most social of them. If four years in a lab, four years you could spend building your skills as a practitioner, is worth it to you then go for it...I know for me it definitely is not.

 

[wired202808]

no offense but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. is unbelievable how uninformed people parade their opinion as fact on this board.

you can specialize and most research faculty practice 2x a week in their own practice here at ucla. that said the phd is not a smart choice if you don't plan on doing researchas a career. things like the army and nh whatever scholarships have you repay your time by w working and building your skills...the phd builds a whole different set of unuseable skills if you don't remain in the research realm. you will be leagues behind your colleagues in speed and confidence upon graduation

I know I can always stand to be corrected by a pompous individual such as yourself. As mentioned in the threads down below, while it may be possible to specialize you'll have absolutely no time to practice since you will be busy teaching. Additionally most students dont need to devote time to a dmd/phd just to specialize, its easier to go to a school like Columbia and almost ensure specialization.

IMO dmd/phd should only be done if you plan on teaching. I wouldnt do it as a means of getting a free education because you'll lose out on potential income earned in the years following the dmd education since you'll be in academia.

 

[baseballplayer9]

Thanks for all the input guys!! A2ndragoon, do you plan on teaching and doing research cuz I know you're gonna be doing Michigan's program?

 

[thewobblytooth]

Thanks for all the input guys!! A2ndragoon, do you plan on teaching and doing research cuz I know you're gonna be doing Michigan's program?

Yup, that's the idea for now. Research isn't for everyone, and you should only do it if you enjoy it. UM only has 2 spots a year and it's competitive to get into it as well. I turned down UPenn's admission offer and declined several interviews because I think this is the path for me. It's definitely not for everyone. And I can't bear the fact that I'll be 360K in debt right off the bat and >400K once the interest accrues. Dental school faculty isn't too shabby. My professor that I researched under made 150K a year as an assistant prof. It's not a godly amount like OS, ortho, endo, but i think I'll be happy.

 

[wired202808]

Yup, that's the idea for now. Research isn't for everyone, and you should only do it if you enjoy it. UM only has 2 spots a year and it's competitive to get into it as well. I turned down UPenn's admission offer and declined several interviews because I think this is the path for me. It's definitely not for everyone. And I can't bear the fact that I'll be 360K in debt right off the bat and >400K once the interest accrues. Dental school faculty isn't too shabby. My professor that I researched under made 150K a year as an assistant prof. It's not a godly amount like OS, ortho, endo, but i think I'll be happy.

sorry for raining on your parade but why would you spend 8 years doing something that barely makes 150K? Thats a pretty damn long investment for such a little payoff.

 

[Bereno]

sorry for raining on your parade but why would you spend 8 years doing something that barely makes 150K? Thats a pretty damn long investment for such a little payoff.

Yup, that's the idea for now. Research isn't for everyone, and you should only do it if you enjoy it. UM only has 2 spots a year and it's competitive to get into it as well. I turned down UPenn's admission offer and declined several interviews because I think this is the path for me. It's definitely not for everyone. And I can't bear the fact that I'll be 360K in debt right off the bat and >400K once the interest accrues. Dental school faculty isn't too shabby. My professor that I researched under made 150K a year as an assistant prof. It's not a godly amount like OS, ortho, endo, but i think I'll be happy.

I think he answered it lol 😀

 

[wired202808]

I think he answered it lol 😀

meh, i think its rationalization that explains why 8 years in school is better than going into debt. Theres a great book called Stumbling on Happiness, its a pretty interesting read. It indicates why people cant make rational decisions and why we often over/underestimate our levels of happiness. That's why I always try to look at career choices as logical decisions, because we often fall in and out of "love" with our "happy choices" but hey thats just my opinion.

 

[Bereno]

meh, i think its rationalization that explains why 8 years in school is better than going into debt. Theres a great book called Stumbling on Happiness, its a pretty interesting read. It indicates why people cant make rational decisions and why we often over/underestimate our levels of happiness. That's why I always try to look at career choices as logical decisions, because we often fall in and out of "love" with our "happy choices" but hey thats just my opinion.

lol, I hear you there. I will have to look into the book - sounds interesting 👍

 

[thewobblytooth]

Not that this is that important, but UM's program is 7 yrs long, not 8. Obviously, there are other things that you can do, and obtaining a DDS/PhD isn't a "life sentence" into academia. There are plenty of DDS/PhDs that go into full private practice as well, but I don't think it's worth the time. Being a psychology major, people in general will rationalize their decisions in anyway we can to make it work. Then we end up loving those decisions and making it work. I'm sure I'll fall into that category somewhere down the road.

If you feel like research is something you enjoy and would do, look deeper into the dds/phd and what programs fit you. If you want a way to finance your education, maybe your parents own a home and you can use the equity line to pay for it and just pay the interest on the house. 3-4% is better than 8%.

 

[UCLAzy]

As mentioned in the threads down below, while it may be possible to specialize you'll have absolutely no time to practice since you will be busy teaching.

says you, who as we all know, knows nothing about this topic. the few professors i know at UCLA teach one (1) day a week out of five (5). the rest is devoted to private practice and research (weighted more on research, but that depends completely on how established the professor is).

UCLA is probably different than other schools since it is a research university and each school has their own thing going on...but that still doesnt account for the complete garbage that continues to flow from your brain to your fingers to the keyboard to the web and finally to the screen of people who want advice based on good faith.

as someone who clearly is not interested in going this route, i find it fascinating that you continue to give advice about it (even going on to make a conjecture about how OTHERS rationalize it) and make inaccurate assumptions about the length of programs you've probably never even looked at! you must really put yourself on a pedestal.

 

[wired202808]

says you, who as we all know, knows nothing about this topic. the few professors i know at UCLA teach one (1) day a week out of five (5). the rest is devoted to private practice and research (weighted more on research, but that depends completely on how established the professor is).

UCLA is probably different than other schools since it is a research university and each school has their own thing going on...but that still doesnt account for the complete garbage that continues to flow from your brain to your fingers to the keyboard to the web and finally to the screen of people who want advice based on good faith.

as someone who clearly is not interested in going this route, i find it fascinating that you continue to give advice about it (even going on to make a conjecture about how OTHERS rationalize it) and make inaccurate assumptions about the length of programs you've probably never even looked at! you must really put yourself on a pedestal.

hey i'm just glad I'll never have to go to school. you're def THAT guy.

 

[tinman831]

Keep it civil guys.

 

[OldDocGJ]

As someone who got their PhD and then did a year as post-doc in a high-impact periodontology lab, DO NOT underestimate the time and shear determination it takes to do a PhD. You're looking at about 50 hrs a week between experiments, literature searches, and writing if you want to publish in a journal that's not garbage. Additionally, most dental research journals are horrid, and I'm not trying to flex nuts or anything, it's just the truth.

Doing your PhD is nothing like undergrad research and one really needs a great deal of self discipline to finish on time since you're being trained as an independent researcher. Hell, sometimes it's just luck! I lost atleast 7 weeks one summer because there was a H. pylori outbreak at Charles River and they had to start my KO mouse line all over again. I even waited two months for one of my my gingivalis antibodies because our cell culture facility got a mycoplasma infection and killed everyones hybridomas.

Why do I mention this? Because some days you just want to say, "F*ck This!" and walk out of lab. Call me a masochist, but it's the love of research that kept getting me out of bed the very next day. If you don't truly LOVE research, doing a DDS/PhD is a very poor decision, regardless of how many loans you might have. The funding situation for academic research in this country is awful, and I believe the lowest in history (if you account for inflation). In my experience from talking with associate-professors, your pay is also tied to the amount of grant money you bring in.

 

[wired202808]

As someone who got their PhD and then did a year as post-doc in a high-impact periodontology lab, DO NOT underestimate the time and shear determination it takes to do a PhD. You're looking at about 50 hrs a week between experiments, literature searches, and writing if you want to publish in a journal that's not garbage. Additionally, most dental research journals are horrid, and I'm not trying to flex nuts or anything, it's just the truth.

Doing your PhD is nothing like undergrad research and one really needs a great deal of self discipline to finish on time since you're being trained as an independent researcher. Hell, sometimes it's just luck! I lost atleast 7 weeks one summer because there was a H. pylori outbreak at Charles River and they had to start my KO mouse line all over again. I even waited two months for one of my my gingivalis antibodies because our cell culture facility got a mycoplasma infection and killed everyones hybridomas.

Why do I mention this? Because some days you just want to say, "F*ck This!" and walk out of lab. Call me a masochist, but it's the love of research that kept getting me out of bed the very next day. If you don't truly LOVE research, doing a DDS/PhD is a very poor decision, regardless of how many loans you might have. The funding situation for academic research in this country is awful, and I believe the lowest in history (if you account for inflation). In my experience from talking with associate-professors, your pay is also tied to the amount of grant money you bring in.

this +1

 

[thewobblytooth]

As someone who got their PhD and then did a year as post-doc in a high-impact periodontology lab, DO NOT underestimate the time and shear determination it takes to do a PhD. You're looking at about 50 hrs a week between experiments, literature searches, and writing if you want to publish in a journal that's not garbage. Additionally, most dental research journals are horrid, and I'm not trying to flex nuts or anything, it's just the truth.

Doing your PhD is nothing like undergrad research and one really needs a great deal of self discipline to finish on time since you're being trained as an independent researcher. Hell, sometimes it's just luck! I lost atleast 7 weeks one summer because there was a H. pylori outbreak at Charles River and they had to start my KO mouse line all over again. I even waited two months for one of my my gingivalis antibodies because our cell culture facility got a mycoplasma infection and killed everyones hybridomas.

Why do I mention this? Because some days you just want to say, "F*ck This!" and walk out of lab. Call me a masochist, but it's the love of research that kept getting me out of bed the very next day. If you don't truly LOVE research, doing a DDS/PhD is a very poor decision, regardless of how many loans you might have. The funding situation for academic research in this country is awful, and I believe the lowest in history (if you account for inflation). In my experience from talking with associate-professors, your pay is also tied to the amount of grant money you bring in.

Definitely agree with you. As for the mycoplasma infection and death of your hybridomas, I'm actually the lead on a project to store hybridoma lines into bacterial vectors so that we can produce recombinant antibodies of similar high affinities. Doing research as a junior specialist really made me get into research. Hopefully my work will get published soon so that there is a rapid method to store all of the important antibodies out there.

 

[Bereno]

After a lot of thought about it, I don't think I am going to apply for it. If I did do the DMD/PhD, I would be 33 or so finishing D-School. Also, if I did decide to specialize I could even be as old as 39 by the time I start looking for my first job. Thats too old for me, I don't want to have the burden of school for that long. I think by that point it would be more fitting for me to stop with the school thing, and start my career/family/life. Looking more into this, I don't think its best for me. 👍

 

[baseballplayer9]

I'm sort of thinking the same thing now haha

 

[UCLAzy]

even though it seems like you guys dont really love research but are looking to just save money (hey, no problem with that), if you do get involved in research and decide it's what you want to do after you get your DDS, NIH has a loan repayment program that might be something to look out for.

http://www.lrp.nih.gov/

again if u dont love research, it's probably not worth it..but if you happen to get interested during dental school after yr 3 or 4 this is also a great option..

good luck with your finances

 

[wired202808]

I'm sort of thinking the same thing now haha

thats kinda what i was saying all along lol everyone takes our loans, just take out the least amount possible and work to pay it back. Taking the other route saves you the $$$$ but kills your time with the "babes" lol

deep down there's a very small % of people who are realllllllyyyyy willing to do research and they're often so antisocial that I wouldnt expect to find them on SDN 🙂 lol JK!

 

[thewobblytooth]

thats kinda what i was saying all along lol everyone takes our loans, just take out the least amount possible and work to pay it back. Taking the other route saves you the $$$$ but kills your time with the "babes" lol

deep down there's a very small % of people who are realllllllyyyyy willing to do research and they're often so antisocial that I wouldnt expect to find them on SDN 🙂 lol JK!

lol that hurts my feelers 🙁.

 

[wired202808]

lol that hurts my feelers 🙁.

lol no offense. i got nuttin but love for research, but babes come first lol

 

[thewobblytooth]

lol no offense. i got nuttin but love for research, but babes come first lol

none taken. babes > research. luckily i've found mine 😎

 

[wired202808]

none taken. babes > research. luckily i've found mine 😎

true but im still in the boat that says this whole dmd/phd thing is meh. just my opinion.

 

[thewobblytooth]

true but im still in the boat that says this whole dmd/phd thing is meh. just my opinion.

Yup. For all the other SDNers out there. DDS/PhD if you like research. One of the benefits is no debt. If not, don't do it. I'll most likely be around SDN all throughout this program so I'll let people know how it goes and stuff.

 

[dantemac]

I would say only do a DDS/PHD program if you want your secondary role to be a dentist. If you like academia, teaching, bench research, etc. then this is a good route for you to take. As other people have noted, dental researchers they know are still dentists 2-3 days a week but probably not full time.

Don't think of it as "School will be free vs. school will cost X amount". Think of it as "I want to be involved in academia 70% of my time or I want to be a general dentist or specialist 70% of my time"

 

[r2thekesh]

I'm confused on why people think your skills will be so awful coming out of school after a phd/dds. If you go to a school with a standard curriculum, you'll do 2 years with your entering d school class, finish part 1 of boards, then 3 years of straight research, and the final 2 years of dental school with a different class. So all of your clinical skills will be set in your final 2 years. On top of that, some of the programs allow for you to remediate your clinical skills if necessary as you finish your phd. The 4 phd/dds students I've met, met their spouses in school, had time to get married and finish their degrees.

So in my mind, if you think you can make dental school tuition+105k(stipend assumed 15k for 7 years)+interest in 3 years out of school then its not worth it. Plus the stress of lab work is just a different type of stress compared to the stress of 250k in loans coming out of school. That one poster said that he just left the lab from all the stress. If you're a new dentist with 250k+ in debt and have a stressful job, you're not going to leave. Not to mention, unlike the regular dental students, you're pretty much assured a job with all the new dental schools opening as a teacher.

FYI-The numbers I used were lower than what my friends got with their programs.

 

[wired202808]

I'm confused on why people think your skills will be so awful coming out of school after a phd/dds. If you go to a school with a standard curriculum, you'll do 2 years with your entering d school class, finish part 1 of boards, then 3 years of straight research, and the final 2 years of dental school with a different class. So all of your clinical skills will be set in your final 2 years. On top of that, some of the programs allow for you to remediate your clinical skills if necessary as you finish your phd. The 4 phd/dds students I've met, met their spouses in school, had time to get married and finish their degrees.

So in my mind, if you think you can make dental school tuition+105k(stipend assumed 15k for 7 years)+interest in 3 years out of school then its not worth it. Plus the stress of lab work is just a different type of stress compared to the stress of 250k in loans coming out of school. That one poster said that he just left the lab from all the stress. If you're a new dentist with 250k+ in debt and have a stressful job, you're not going to leave. Not to mention, unlike the regular dental students, you're pretty much assured a job with all the new dental schools opening as a teacher.

FYI-The numbers I used were lower than what my friends got with their programs.

Stress is stress there's aren't different "kinds" of stress lol thats something you created for your example. Whether you're stressed out from doing lab work or having to pay off loans it will be the same kind of stress. The long term goal of academia vs. private practice should be the sole determination in making this choice. Also dont think academia is quite rosey, while you're guaranteed a job you're not guaranteed a good boss. This might bring on the other type of "stress" you mention lol

 

[r2thekesh]

Stress is stress there's aren't different "kinds" of stress lol thats something you created for your example. Whether you're stressed out from doing lab work or having to pay off loans it will be the same kind of stress. The long term goal of academia vs. private practice should be the sole determination in making this choice. Also dont think academia is quite rosey, while you're guaranteed a job you're not guaranteed a good boss. This might bring on the other type of "stress" you mention lol

Doesn't everything you said apply to private practice? I've read some stuff from the Curious Dentist blog, some SDN, some dental town, and other sites and I feel like you're more than likely going to have a crappy boss in private practice as a new graduate.

 

[wired202808]

Doesn't everything you said apply to private practice? I've read some stuff from the Curious Dentist blog, some SDN, some dental town, and other sites and I feel like you're more than likely going to have a crappy boss in private practice as a new graduate.

You've only seen that side because most grads go into private practice. So you're making a huge assumption that academia is better, based on something totally unrelated. Additionally in private practice you can quit a job at any time but if you're working on academia its hard to drop you're stuff and quit. The moral of the story is as clear as day: if you're into research then yes this combo might work, but otherwise its gonna be another miserable way to avoid loans. I think if students went to the cheapest school, kept their loans low, and had the proper business sense it would go a lot further than avoiding the whole thing by running to academia. Its not like you'll never deal with loans in your life and its time to learn how to handle real fiscal responsibility. At the end of the day if you're even thinking about owning your own practice or being a partner, its best to get on that horse from the start.

 

[UCLAzy]

I'm confused on why people think your skills will be so awful coming out of school after a phd/dds. If you go to a school with a standard curriculum, you'll do 2 years with your entering d school class, finish part 1 of boards, then 3 years of straight research, and the final 2 years of dental school with a different class. So all of your clinical skills will be set in your final 2 years. On top of that, some of the programs allow for you to remediate your clinical skills if necessary as you finish your phd. The 4 phd/dds students I've met, met their spouses in school, had time to get married and finish their degrees.

So in my mind, if you think you can make dental school tuition+105k(stipend assumed 15k for 7 years)+interest in 3 years out of school then its not worth it. Plus the stress of lab work is just a different type of stress compared to the stress of 250k in loans coming out of school. That one poster said that he just left the lab from all the stress. If you're a new dentist with 250k+ in debt and have a stressful job, you're not going to leave. Not to mention, unlike the regular dental students, you're pretty much assured a job with all the new dental schools opening as a teacher.

FYI-The numbers I used were lower than what my friends got with their programs.

sdn pre-dents are very anti-research. many of these people may change their minds when they realize boards are pass/fail and something like research stands out to specialty programs way more than taking that mission trip to south america. for instance, ortho at uconn REQUIRES an MS to be obtained during the program so i'm guessing having some experience is looked favorably upon..but i digress.

if you're interested at all in getting an MS or PhD during dental school (MS is way more likely) it's usually something you have until D3 to decide, so instead of getting pretty much unanimous negative responses here, ask people at the dental school that have gone through or are going through the process.

 

[thewobblytooth]

You've only seen that side because most grads go into private practice. So you're making a huge assumption that academia is better, based on something totally unrelated. Additionally in private practice you can quit a job at any time but if you're working on academia its hard to drop you're stuff and quit. The moral of the story is as clear as day: if you're into research then yes this combo might work, but otherwise its gonna be another miserable way to avoid loans. I think if students went to the cheapest school, kept their loans low, and had the proper business sense it would go a lot further than avoiding the whole thing by running to academia. Its not like you'll never deal with loans in your life and its time to learn how to handle real fiscal responsibility. At the end of the day if you're even thinking about owning your own practice or being a partner, its best to get on that horse from the start.

+1. DDS/PhD isn't what most applicants even think about. It's like the army/navy/airforce scholarships. Is it worth it to YOU? It really depends on the person. I personally like teaching, I like research, and I'm into all that. Choosing the d-school is like choosing the house you're going to live in for the rest of your life. Be sure it's what you want.

On a side note, of the DDS/PhD professors that I know. Many were in private practice as endos, perios, gps, before they made the switch to research. Not everyone is going to be like "I feel like being a scientist/dentist off the bat". I enjoyed dentistry before I enjoyed research. If you've never done research (undergrad research sort of doesn't count), then you won't know what you're getting yourself into if you apply. Most of research is dumb luck and experiments fail for the most random reasons. Half the time you TRY to get an experiment to work, and that could take months or years (my own experience).

 

[wired202808]

+1. DDS/PhD isn't what most applicants even think about. It's like the army/navy/airforce scholarships. Is it worth it to YOU? It really depends on the person. I personally like teaching, I like research, and I'm into all that. Choosing the d-school is like choosing the house you're going to live in for the rest of your life. Be sure it's what you want.

On a side note, of the DDS/PhD professors that I know. Many were in private practice as endos, perios, gps, before they made the switch to research. Not everyone is going to be like "I feel like being a scientist/dentist off the bat". I enjoyed dentistry before I enjoyed research. If you've never done research (undergrad research sort of doesn't count), then you won't know what you're getting yourself into if you apply. Most of research is dumb luck and experiments fail for the most random reasons. Half the time you TRY to get an experiment to work, and that could take months or years (my own experience).

👍 I hope it works out for you and that you enjoy it!

 

[thewobblytooth]

👍 I hope it works out for you and that you enjoy it!

Thanks! I'll definitely let people know my honest opinion as I go through this over the years. We'll see how eventful/uneventful this program is.

 

[Bereno]

This is funny to me because I LOVE teaching. I really do. I am the Senior Lead Tutor for a tutoring center here at the UW, so I get my fair share of it. However, I feel that I would be able to teach basic stuffs someday without the PhD to back me up. I'm thinking something along the lines of working 4 days a week, teach the 5th. Nothing big, just something that lets me feel like I am "giving back" a little. Who knows, I might dive into research someday as well, but I will cross that bridge after I have started my career. I don't think its something that I would want to do while in d-school. 👍

 

[iralex801]

+1. DDS/PhD isn't what most applicants even think about. It's like the army/navy/airforce scholarships. Is it worth it to YOU? It really depends on the person. I personally like teaching, I like research, and I'm into all that. Choosing the d-school is like choosing the house you're going to live in for the rest of your life. Be sure it's what you want.

On a side note, of the DDS/PhD professors that I know. Many were in private practice as endos, perios, gps, before they made the switch to research. Not everyone is going to be like "I feel like being a scientist/dentist off the bat". I enjoyed dentistry before I enjoyed research. If you've never done research (undergrad research sort of doesn't count), then you won't know what you're getting yourself into if you apply. Most of research is dumb luck and experiments fail for the most random reasons. Half the time you TRY to get an experiment to work, and that could take months or years (my own experience).

Good luck with the program man. There are few people out there who have your mentality and are willing to put in the time day after day. You're the type of person who is going to make a difference in the world.

 

[K31]

You may want to pose this question on the MD/PhD subforum--a lot of the same calculations go into deciding about MD vs. MD/PhD. Here's my take on it as a MD/PhD student nearing the end of the program:

It's really not worth it unless you intend to have research be the primary focus of your career, with the minority of your time being in the clinic (80% research/20% clinical is the ratio usually thrown around in MD/PhD circles). Getting a PhD is difficult, and if you aren't sure that you love research you shouldn't do it (and a year of research in undergrad doesn't cut it) . Not everyone ends up running a lab (I probably won't), but if you know that going in you'll probably burn out pretty quick in grad school.

I have seen calculations that places the value of the full ride + stipend of a MD/PhD program at between $300 and $400,000, but you are also shortening your career (assuming you retire at the same time as you would have otherwise), and that shortening is at the most profitable years of your career (ie you will work for 3-4 fewer years after you reach the peak). That math doesn't work out for MD/PhD vs. MD, and I think it's probably the same for dentists.

 

[thewobblytooth]

Good luck with the program man. There are few people out there who have your mentality and are willing to put in the time day after day. You're the type of person who is going to make a difference in the world.

Thanks for the support. I made this decision after lots of contemplating. I was juggling my acceptances and decided that this is what I want. I'll definitely tell everyone how I do and the pros and cons of it as I go through.

 

[thewobblytooth]

You may want to pose this question on the MD/PhD subforum--a lot of the same calculations go into deciding about MD vs. MD/PhD. Here's my take on it as a MD/PhD student nearing the end of the program:

It's really not worth it unless you intend to have research be the primary focus of your career, with the minority of your time being in the clinic (80% research/20% clinical is the ratio usually thrown around in MD/PhD circles). Getting a PhD is difficult, and if you aren't sure that you love research you shouldn't do it (and a year of research in undergrad doesn't cut it) . Not everyone ends up running a lab (I probably won't), but if you know that going in you'll probably burn out pretty quick in grad school.

I have seen calculations that places the value of the full ride + stipend of a MD/PhD program at between $300 and $400,000, but you are also shortening your career (assuming you retire at the same time as you would have otherwise), and that shortening is at the most profitable years of your career (ie you will work for 3-4 fewer years after you reach the peak). That math doesn't work out for MD/PhD vs. MD, and I think it's probably the same for dentists.

Yup. I actually posted on the md/phd forum for advice about lab rotations, etc because I'm not too sure how things go. Especially for dds/phd because there are so few of us. In the end, i think it's about what will make me happy at the end of the day. I do really enjoy research and the project I'm working on now. It feels good to know that something you work on will have value long after your leave.

And yes, the value of the full tuition, stipend support, and health insurance comes out to roughly 400K. This isn't speaking of the interest 7.9% accrued annually. And one small difference is that the private practice dentists that make the most money are the ones that eventually purchase a practice. These could range from 30K-300K depending on area and price. It gets pricey for dentists but that's where the real money is for dentists.

Even with research, I'm really concerned about the nature of funding mechanisms. I always hear about NIH and budget cuts and the lack of money. It's hard to fund a lab nowadays. I don't think that will get any better. Something else to think about for those trying to get into dds/phd.