DMU or UMDNJ-SOM

[Orthodoc40]

I swore I wasn't going to do this, but well, I give in. It's been so long since HemaOncoDoc started one of these polls, it seemed like time to start another one. Plus, well, I'm hoping for new insights about this one...

Okay, right now I'm accepted to these 2 DO programs.
Since my big interest/background has been in orthopedics, I just wonder if either would be a clearcut advantage over the other for getting into a good (or any) ortho residency - either allo or osteo? (I'm aware my interests could totally change during school, but let's go with what I know so far...) Probably better to just say "any competitive specialty".
Some points I'm juggling are:
DMU seems to place a lot of people into ortho residencies, (7 in a class of 192 last year) though I know match lists are usually a reflection of the class member's interests to a good degree.
UMDNJ has an affiliated residency, so maybe that's a benefit, but how much?
DMU has 32 weeks of free elective time, while UMDNJ only has 16.
UMDNJ has better research opportunities, but I'm sure there would be opportunity at DMU as well.
UMDNJ is $10k/year less in tuition, yet DMU may have far more scholarship potential (yet to be determined...)
I'm from Massachusetts & my family & friends are all around the Northeast. It seems to me like this shouldn't be that difficult, but, well, here I am, asking for more viewpoints...

Anything else I should be finding out before deciding?

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[erleichda]

i'm a little biased

 

[Orthodoc40]

Bias is fine!!
Reasons are helpful... Like, "Because I want to get off the wait-list at the other school!!" Always handy to have the perspectives...!!

 

[djnels01]

In my obviously biased opinion, I like DMU. Family is something to consider though - if you will have a hard time being that far from family and friends then save the money and the stress and go to UMDNJ-SOM. As far as ortho residencies, I don't know what to tell you. If you perform well on boards, get good clinical grades, and rotate through a location that has an ortho program that you're interested in, then it shouldn't matter where you went to school... You'll get in by your own merits, not because of the school you graduated from, know what I mean?

It's been said countless times: there are DOs in every specialty, if you want it badly enough, work hard and you can do it. Just evaluate which school does the best job of setting you up succeed!

PS - Recent match lists from each school can be a good indicator of where graduates go for residency and what residencies they get into...

 

[Kuba]

Bias is fine!!
Reasons are helpful... Like, "Because I want to get off the wait-list at the other school!!" Always handy to have the perspectives...!!

lol, i voted for UMDNJ and im on the waitlist, so Im giving an honest opinion. Obviously though, I have never visited DMU, but on paper it looks like its a little overrated on SDN. And then there's the cliche - you can't go wrong deciding between two great schools.

 

[Orthodoc40]

lol, i voted for UMDNJ and im on the waitlist, so Im giving an honest opinion. Obviously though, I have never visited DMU, but on paper it looks like its a little overrated on SDN. And then there's the cliche - you can't go wrong deciding between two great schools.

It's true. Good problem to have, I know it! Thanks for the unbiased responses to this one, Dr. Kuba - I know you will get off the waitlist anyway.

In my obviously biased opinion, I like DMU. Family is something to consider though - if you will have a hard time being that far from family and friends then save the money and the stress and go to UMDNJ-SOM. As far as ortho residencies, I don't know what to tell you. If you perform well on boards, get good clinical grades, and rotate through a location that has an ortho program that you're interested in, then it shouldn't matter where you went to school... You'll get in by your own merits, not because of the school you graduated from, know what I mean?

It's been said countless times: there are DOs in every specialty, if you want it badly enough, work hard and you can do it. Just evaluate which school does the best job of setting you up succeed!

PS - Recent match lists from each school can be a good indicator of where graduates go for residency and what residencies they get into...

Thanks Djnels. I'm just hoping maybe I missed something in my deliberations. DMU placed 7 people in ortho last year, out of 192. UMDNJ place 1 person out of 95. I know some of that has to do with people's choices. Maybe only 1 person at UMDNJ wanted to go into it, maybe 40 people wanted to at DMU. So - it's hard to know what to do with those match lists alone!

I'll probably land up wanting to go into anesthesia in the end - LOL! But oh well, polls are fun.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Something to consider ... how many ortho residencies are there osteo vs allo? IF you know this is where you are going, that elective time is going to be crucial if you are applying allo residency ... just food for thought. I really like schools that are open about the match lists because they are important in some regards to take into consideration. Especially if they list the facilities of where they match.

What do you like about class size? I've never personally known anyone at DMU so I can't really comment on DMU. I have heard nothing but good things but many of them seem to do residency in the midwest (from their match list). If you are looking to go back to your family, UMDNJ might be better suited for you. Although I really really like the elective weeks. Esp because you have strong programs at OUCOM and MSUCOM affliated osteopathic programs, I'd want as much time in a specialty to get my name out there as I could get. But is it worth $40000 in tuition? That's a tough decision.

They are both good schools and I wish I knew more about DMU to really give a good comparison.

Any differences in the first two years learning curriculum? Have you talked to many of the students there? Where did you feel "at
home" the best? Does DMU make you move around alot for rotations? Do they provide any housing for rotations? (that could mean even more money for travel, etc) I know some hospitals help find your housing but sometimes Do you mind moving around a bit? Do they have a database for you to search to help find rotations?

So many questions to ask yourself, but what is your heart telling you? Best of luck with the decision ...

 

[Orthodoc40]

Something to consider ... how many ortho residencies are there osteo vs allo? IF you know this is where you are going, that elective time is going to be crucial if you are applying allo residency ... just food for thought. I really like schools that are open about the match lists because they are important in some regards to take into consideration. Especially if they list the facilities of where they match.

What do you like about class size? I've never personally known anyone at DMU so I can't really comment on DMU. I have heard nothing but good things but many of them seem to do residency in the midwest (from their match list). If you are looking to go back to your family, UMDNJ might be better suited for you. Although I really really like the elective weeks. Esp because you have strong programs at OUCOM and MSUCOM affliated osteopathic programs, I'd want as much time in a specialty to get my name out there as I could get. But is it worth $40000 in tuition? That's a tough decision.

They are both good schools and I wish I knew more about DMU to really give a good comparison.

Any differences in the first two years learning curriculum? Have you talked to many of the students there? Where did you feel "at
home" the best? Does DMU make you move around alot for rotations? Do they provide any housing for rotations? (that could mean even more money for travel, etc) I know some hospitals help find your housing but sometimes Do you mind moving around a bit? Do they have a database for you to search to help find rotations?

So many questions to ask yourself, but what is your heart telling you? Best of luck with the decision ...

Yah wow - those ARE some other things to find out about! I love that DMU has so much elective time - I suspect I'll appreciate that, but haven't found out about housing costs. IS it worth the $40k tuition + interest paid??!! DMU does mostly seem to place people in the midwest, but then again, a large percentage of its students were from the midwest anyway. Just like UMDNJ tends to place people around the Northeast, but more students are from around that area, too. Neither seems exclusive. The 2006 match lists have people at UMass, Hopkins, Columbia - so I suspect these people had plenty of time to do electives on the east coast.

I probably worry about being farther from my family in Des Moines, but New Jersey is still a 5-7 hr drive - not exactly a short trip! DMU seems more like a 'high energy' place where UMDNJ seems more laid back & low key. I felt like I fit in both places, (with the strong exception of the NY sports fans... ) but neither one said to me, "This is where you want to be!!" I think if they were the same distance from home and same tuition, I might chose DMU, but they're not, and I'm not that sure...

Thanks for the ideas - more to research. It helps!

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Orthodoc, I didn't apply to UMDNJ but did get accepted to a number of other schools including DMU and chose DMU based on talking with doctors who went there, seeing how the students truly felt about the school, checking their match list against others but most importantly for me was the elective time. I want the oppurtunity to explore certain specialties that other schools just don't give you enough time to do. This sealed the deal for me as DMU gives you the time and tools necessary to discover medicine and then develop a relationship with the specialty of your choice. Really though you are in a tough position. Both schools rock and UMDNJ is well known even out here on the West Coast. You can't go wrong.

 

[Nate]

You will probably have an advantage applying to our residency program if you are here and go to the morning rounds on Wednesday with the ortho residents, getting to know them and the attending. You can do similar things with other specialties here on campus at the hospital or doctor's pavillion. You can also probably shadow Philly ortho guys being this close, I love DMU but Iowa? If you want, PM me and I can get you in touch with a classmate who is doing everything right to go ortho. Elective time is most of your 4th year... 3rd year is all core rotations much like every other med school in the country. Your double the elective time figure for DMU seems way off

 

[Orthodoc40]

Orthodoc, I didn't apply to UMDNJ but did get accepted to a number of other schools including DMU and chose DMU based on talking with doctors who went there, seeing how the students truly felt about the school, checking their match list against others but most importantly for me was the elective time. I want the oppurtunity to explore certain specialties that other schools just don't give you enough time to do. This sealed the deal for me as DMU gives you the time and tools necessary to discover medicine and then develop a relationship with the specialty of your choice. Really though you are in a tough position. Both schools rock and UMDNJ is well known even out here on the West Coast. You can't go wrong.

Thanks Fizban. I think the 32 weeks in 4th year is a BIG plus at DMU just as you said.

You will probably have an advantage applying to our residency program if you are here and go to the morning rounds on Wednesday with the ortho residents, getting to know them and the attending. You can do similar things with other specialties here on campus at the hospital or doctor's pavillion. You can also probably shadow Philly ortho guys being this close, I love DMU but Iowa? If you want, PM me and I can get you in touch with a classmate who is doing everything right to go ortho. Elective time is most of your 4th year... 3rd year is all core rotations much like every other med school in the country. Your double the elective time figure for DMU seems way off

It's listed in the handbook as 32 weeks during 4th year. Right now, UMDNJ lists only 12 weeks, though I was told it's moving up to 16 weeks. That could be a huge advantage to DMU. (BTW, I'm speaking strictly of general elective time, only.) But again, your points about the Wednesday mornings are an advantage at UMDNJ, for sure. I've heard about that. Yet why are there only 1 or 2 people matching into ortho every year there - I'd figure it would be more, with that being a supposedly big advantage!
Thanks for the p.m. offer, Nate. I will take you up on it if I decide on UMDNJ!

 

[jbone]

DMU=home of the jbone.

nuff said. See you next year.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Then maybe you could answer some of the questions I asked

 

[Jamers]

You will probably have an advantage applying to our residency program if you are here and go to the morning rounds on Wednesday with the ortho residents, getting to know them and the attending. You can do similar things with other specialties here on campus at the hospital or doctor's pavillion. You can also probably shadow Philly ortho guys being this close, I love DMU but Iowa? If you want, PM me and I can get you in touch with a classmate who is doing everything right to go ortho. Elective time is most of your 4th year... 3rd year is all core rotations much like every other med school in the country. Your double the elective time figure for DMU seems way off

I would rather go to the middle of a corn field than to Jersey (sorry Nate but, JERSEY?!)

Anyways, I tried not to post on here because, my answer is obvious. I would say write down a list of things you want and go to the school that meets the most of them. I can't really say DMU is better than UMDNJ or vice-versa.

 

[Orthodoc40]

The pros & cons list didn't really reveal a clear winner, neither did the spreadsheet with weighted point system that Depakote shared. (UMDNJ won by 1 point... 1 point?! How can I call that a win?!)

DMU boasts an 88% match into their 1st or 2nd choice, UMDNJ claims a >90% match into their 1st choice - so both are great, obviously. As far as the schools go in general;

DMU's class size is a downer, as is the 2 team dissection thing, though both aren't fatal flaws by any stretch. And I ask you - who wouldn't enjoy having a guy that brews his own beer teaching you biochemistry?!
The only big, bad thing about DMU for me is the distance from anyone I know & love. Without being there, it's hard to tell just how much that will bug me...

UMDNJ has a few classroom and lab space/facility issues that are a downer, but even those seem to be getting addressed. Then there's the area - high crime, more malls than any area should be allowed to build. Though it is a long drive home, it's a quick flight if necessary. They seem to have a good reputation, but no one can produce the hard facts/figures for me when I ask. That's kinda fishy. Then again, it's hard to argue against the $10k/year difference in tuition.

I so wish I had been one of those lucky people who "just knew it was the place for me" when they visited one of these schools! You guys are very lucky. Makes deciding so easy!

 

[FutureSoxDoc]

edit answered question wrong. Either way ortho is very difficult to match- get ready to work your butt off.

 

[DOctorJay]

Nate had some good points, especially ortho morning conferences, I've been going since first year - there is no better way to get to know a program.

DMU may claim whatever amount of weeks of elective time but I'm sure you can't do ALL of it in ortho. at SOM we have 3 months to do electives which should be plenty for you to rotate out of system at places you'd want to go for ortho.

not sure about the crime issue you mentioned - i live near the school in a beautiful little suburb. if you're talking camden, we're far enough removed to be safe, but we do get to rotate there which means much better pathology and trauma.

good luck and don't forget how lucky you are to have this tough decision!

 

[Orthodoc40]

Nate had some good points, especially ortho morning conferences, I've been going since first year - there is no better way to get to know a program.

DMU may claim whatever amount of weeks of elective time but I'm sure you can't do ALL of it in ortho. at SOM we have 3 months to do electives which should be plenty for you to rotate out of system at places you'd want to go for ortho.

not sure about the crime issue you mentioned - i live near the school in a beautiful little suburb. if you're talking camden, we're far enough removed to be safe, but we do get to rotate there which means much better pathology and trauma.

good luck and don't forget how lucky you are to have this tough decision!

Thanks DOctorJay! I am glad for the decision, believe me, especially as a reapplicant... 3 months definitely seems like enough time for electives, though the lure of freedom for much more time than that is great! LOL!
I don't plan on doing 32 weeks in ANY one specialty, but like the possibility of sampling a lot more with that time, that's all. Or going to more locations during that time, perhaps...

Well, I hear Camden is like, the highest crime city in the country or something like that? That's why I was saying that about the area, but now that you mention it, the trauma cases could be awesome....

I'm amazed that the votes are dead even here....!
Thanks so far everyone! I've gotten some good views I hadn't considered.

 

[Nate]

Lol, touché Jamers

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Well OP, looks like all of the above is pretty even, but there is one last detail you over looked. "Where can you get better steaks?"

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Theres a reason why DMU puts out more buff orthodocs then jersey....think out it.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Theres a reason why DMU puts out more buff orthodocs then jersey....think out it.

Better steaks??
Sorry - ya lost me....

 

[Darch]

The pros & cons list didn't really reveal a clear winner, neither did the spreadsheet with weighted point system that Depakote shared. (UMDNJ won by 1 point... 1 point?! How can I call that a win?!)

DMU boasts an 88% match into their 1st or 2nd choice, UMDNJ claims a >90% match into their 1st choice - so both are great, obviously. As far as the schools go in general;

DMU's class size is a downer, as is the 2 team dissection thing, though both aren't fatal flaws by any stretch. And I ask you - who wouldn't enjoy having a guy that brews his own beer teaching you biochemistry?!
The only big, bad thing about DMU for me is the distance from anyone I know & love. Without being there, it's hard to tell just how much that will bug me...

UMDNJ has a few classroom and lab space/facility issues that are a downer, but even those seem to be getting addressed. Then there's the area - high crime, more malls than any area should be allowed to build. Though it is a long drive home, it's a quick flight if necessary. They seem to have a good reputation, but no one can produce the hard facts/figures for me when I ask. That's kinda fishy. Then again, it's hard to argue against the $10k/year difference in tuition.

I so wish I had been one of those lucky people who "just knew it was the place for me" when they visited one of these schools! You guys are very lucky. Makes deciding so easy!

hey ortho! i know we discussed this a lot back in december when I was making the same decision but here are some more comments...

If I were you I would go through the cons again and see which ones would really have an effect on the quality of education you will be receiving.

DMU class size: it is bigger than umdnj...not a huge con but still may affect the quality of education depending on what type of student you are.
2 team dissection: not really a big flaw but again...could affect the quality of education you receive.

UMDNJ: classrooms...yea I'm not very happy about this either so this is another small con but i heard that they are fixing them for next year??
high crime: i think this only applies to camden and wont really affect you if you live close to the school. anyway, you'll be studying all of the time anyway so you wont be a target
malls: ha will we have time to even notice the ridiculous number of malls in the area? atleast if you need to run out to get something you have everything nearby that you could ever want!

I loved both schools too but as you know I preferred being closer to my family and friends and paying less for what I consider comparable educations.

good luck and i hope that you can decide soon!! It is soo nice to relax after the decision is made so please keep us posted on when you can finally sit back and not worry anymore!

 

[Jamers]

I just thought I'd say something about the distance as that should be a very important factor for you. As you know I was having some trouble with it when it seemed my whole family was going down the drain. However, it was only that one month where everything went down hill that I even thought about it. The rest of the time I was far too busy to even realize the passage of time. I remember going home for Christmas break saying, "holy crap, I still thought it was August..." It will mess with your head sometimes to relaize two weeks have gone by and it feels like a few days. That being said, the distant really matters only when you take time to notice it. And, let's be real, it wouldn't matter where you are, if something was going to go bad, it would. There was a reason I turned down all the schools closer to my home and went out here. That reason simply being that I felt this school matched me the best. I know it may sound cliche but, it is how I arrived at both my undergrad and here; by what school I could see myself being in for the next few years. Distance is one thing but, I have noticed that many people will often look back on a decision to move and remember only the best from their previous addresses. Then, upon a visit back, it takes only time before all the bad memories that forced them to move in the first place come rushing back. You may miss home at first, but in a few months time, you wont even realize you have gone.

 

[djnels01]

One quick thing about Anatomy labs: it's been said a few times on here that splitting the cadaver dissection between two groups is a "con" for DMU. I don't know what it's like at other schools, but here at DMU it's a 7 credit course that is taught in 1 semester. There is a ridiculous amount of information to cover, both in lecture and in lab. I for one was very glad we were able to split the dissection up between two lab groups: that is a hell of a lot of work to do! As it is, we would average 2-3 labs (2 hours each) a week PER GROUP. The total time a person spent studying anatomy, as well as in lecture and lab, could sometimes top 20+ hours a week. And that number is probably higher the week of a test...

Anatomy is just a DRAG to learn for some, and it really was for me this last semester. I can't imagine how crappy it would have been if we'd had to do every dissection. In the end you still learn the same anatomical structures and locations, you just don't have to spend 2 hours in lab finding them when the other lab group takes care of that for you. To me, two groups per cadaver is more of a "pro"... I suppose there will be those anatomy buffs out there who want total control over their cadaver. I was definitely not one of them - I was busy enough with other classes and was happy to have the extra time in the week.

To each his/her own though I guess...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

One quick thing about Anatomy labs: it's been said a few times on here that splitting the cadaver dissection between two groups is a "con" for DMU. I don't know what it's like at other schools, but here at DMU it's a 7 credit course that is taught in 1 semester. There is a ridiculous amount of information to cover, both in lecture and in lab. I for one was very glad we were able to split the dissection up between two lab groups: that is a hell of a lot of work to do! As it is, we would average 2-3 labs (2 hours each) a week PER GROUP. The total time a person spent studying anatomy, as well as in lecture and lab, could sometimes top 20+ hours a week. And that number is probably higher the week of a test...

Anatomy is just a DRAG to learn for some, and it really was for me this last semester. I can't imagine how crappy it would have been if we'd had to do every dissection. In the end you still learn the same anatomical structures and locations, you just don't have to spend 2 hours in lab finding them when the other lab group takes care of that for you. To me, two groups per cadaver is more of a "pro"... I suppose there will be those anatomy buffs out there who want total control over their cadaver. I was definitely not one of them - I was busy enough with other classes and was happy to have the extra time in the week.

To each his/her own though I guess...

So ditto! I'm admittedly not a future surgeon type, but one thing I've got to say is that everybody spends a lot more time in anatomy lab doing things like removing fat than they do learning. You don't need to actually do the cutting to learn the structures, so splitting up the dissections lets you spend some more quality focused time on studying.

Also, the fewer people you have around the cadaver the better -- at any one time, only two people will be effectively cutting. Everyone else is either just standing around or looking at the atlas and aiding the people doing the cutting. So, if your group does every dissection but is larger than 4 people, you're still going to miss out on some dissecting.

 

[Jamers]

So ditto! I'm admittedly not a future surgeon type, but one thing I've got to say is that everybody spends a lot more time in anatomy lab doing things like removing fat than they do learning. You don't need to actually do the cutting to learn the structures, so splitting up the dissections lets you spend some more quality focused time on studying.

Also, the fewer people you have around the cadaver the better -- at any one time, only two people will be effectively cutting. Everyone else is either just standing around or looking at the atlas and aiding the people doing the cutting. So, if your group does every dissection but is larger than 4 people, you're still going to miss out on some dissecting.

DJ is right, sometimes you would have three anatomy labs in one week (that along with cell biology "lab" and OMM lab), anymore time with my cadaver and I would want to be one. I would actually rather prosection but not many schools offer that. Plus, you will be spending enough damn extra time in that lab that it doesn't matter who does the disection. Just because you are there to find something doesn't mean you will notice it come exam time; I know I got questions related to the female reproductive system wrong and ours was the one tagged the most for that.

 

[Orthodoc40]

What's the difference b/w dissection & prosection - how do you learn by prosection? (MSU has this, BTW...)

I've heard you guys saying these things about the teams for dissection, and while I believe it, there's a part of me that still likes the idea of doing it all. I've heard from other 1st years that they are grateful to just have 4 of them doing all the work, and they couldn't imagine sharing with another team... So - who knows. However, just to be clear, I would never let that issue alone be my deciding factor for or against one school or the other.

 

[mshheaddoc]

simplicity, prosection is where the dissection (read: fat and crap) is already done for you and you mainly identify structures and the such. Saves time for the students with wasteless digging and the stench.

 

[toothless rufus]

the stench.

Yeah, speaking of the stench; couldn't they add some type of permeating fragrance to the embalming fluid? Maybe even "pot pie" or something?

 

[Orthodoc40]

Yeah, speaking of the stench; couldn't they add some type of permeating fragrance to the embalming fluid? Maybe even "pot pie" or something?

Oh barf!!
Thanks for that lunch special, buddy!! LOL!!

 

[Orthodoc40]

simplicity, prosection is where the dissection (read: fat and crap) is already done for you and you mainly identify structures and the such. Saves time for the students with wasteless digging and the stench.

So you just get to look??! Why not use a book, then?!!
(Just kidding, really...)

 

[djnels01]

What's the difference b/w dissection & prosection - how do you learn by prosection? (MSU has this, BTW...)

I've heard you guys saying these things about the teams for dissection, and while I believe it, there's a part of me that still likes the idea of doing it all. I've heard from other 1st years that they are grateful to just have 4 of them doing all the work, and they couldn't imagine sharing with another team... So - who knows. However, just to be clear, I would never let that issue alone be my deciding factor for or against one school or the other.

Fair enough. If you can, find out how many labs the "other 1st years" had, and if they were spread out over a semester or over the entire year. I can tell you that at DMU we had somewhere between 50-60 labs total over the course of 4 months.

Someone from DMU correct me if I am wrong. Our class size is simply too big to not split into seperate lab groups, and for that I am grateful-

 

[Jamers]

So you just get to look??! Why not use a book, then?!!
(Just kidding, really...)

The body is your bible, the only book you need (that is my only plug, ever, for anatomists).

Some schools (VCOM, WVSOM, two that I know of) use advanced ventilation systems so you don't even notice the smell.

 

[Jamers]

52 total labs, not counting review labs. I think it was split down the middle so 26/26 for both groups over the course of 3-4 months (I think our first lab started in Sept.)

 

[Orthodoc40]

Anyone know what you do with the other 12 weeks of Year 4 at DMU?
They left that out of the handbook.

 

[psybrdelic]

I actually visited/interviewed DMU.

Simply put, I'm a city grrl. Des Moines is not a a real urban metropopulus if you get my drift.

I'm bias...I go to UMDNJ.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

The body is your bible, the only book you need (that is my only plug, ever, for anatomists).

Some schools (VCOM, WVSOM, two that I know of) use advanced ventilation systems so you don't even notice the smell.

I thought the WVSOM ventilation system was amazing. It's like a industrial vacuum cleaner attached to the cadaver storage unit.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I thought the WVSOM ventilation system was amazing. It's like a industrial vacuum cleaner attached to the cadaver storage unit.

When we had our cadaver lab at HMS, you could have been in any classroom. The ventilation was that good. But, you'd expect that from them...

 

[Jamers]

I thought the WVSOM ventilation system was amazing. It's like a industrial vacuum cleaner attached to the cadaver storage unit.

Because VCOMs is newer, it's even better than at WVSOM.

 

[eddo]

Your experience setting up clinical rotations will vary on who you are designated to in the Office of Clinical Affairs. I had Marilyn....AWESOME!

Anyways, your 32 week elective time are really 32 weeks to do whatever you want wherever you want. In the name of developing "well-rounded" physicians, you are limited to 3 rotations in any one specialty. I graduated in 2006 so things may have changed slightly in terms of the nitty gritty.

DMU
3RD YEAR - split into three 4 month blocks
- Core hospital block = 4 weeks at affiliated Core Hospitals throughout the country where you work with GME to figure out your schedule
- Core Family block = 8 weeks FP at Core clinic sites throughout the country, than anything else for 8 weeks
- Core Electives = obgyn, peds, psych, and another wherever you can find a spot

4TH YEAR
- 2 months (1 month each) of Family Medicine and Community Medicine
- Rest of the year is elective time!

Premise of my comments: DMU Class of 06, UMDNJ Intern now

Wouldn't change a thing. The elective time allowed me to do rotations in literally any discipline in whatever city at whatever institution was willing to take me. The freedom DMU gave me saved me from the grips of choosing IM as a default because I couldn't find anything more interesting (don't get me wrong...I like IM!...just can't do it or any subspecialities for the rest of my life)

Setting up rotations was a hassle for me. NOT because there aren't places to rotate - DMU has affiliations throughout the country although lacking in the west coast. These can be set up rather easily because of the affiliations. It is the paperwork requirements of non-affiliated HOSTING institutions, NOT DMU, that are very grueling. DMU (rather Marilyn) is very good at submitting the paperwork, provided you do your part and keep in touch with her.

I wanted to go to very specific cities/institutions at very specific times for specific rotations. Some institutions were places where DMU students had rarely/never gone before. Paperwork hell!

If you are a nomad like me, you can city hop throughout your clinical years like I did. If you want to stay in one place (with a CORE) - easily done.

It was literally and figuratively a life journey for me academically and otherwise. Met people from other countries, played the tourist, learned from professors in the top of their field, got the flavor of these cities.

I considered it two years of feeling like I was "studying [medicine] abroad" without going outside the US - experiencing different cities.

Classmates that had families or didn't want to move were able to stay in one place for an entire year (or two), usually in the midwest.

UMDNJ
What (little?) I know of interacting with the medical students at UMDNJ of their clinical years.

3RD YEAR
almost all in-system except 2 weeks of radiology and maybe another elective
4TH YEAR
THree 4 week electives, which can be out-of-system. Everything else in-system. Per some students, they make it hard because of administrative/affiliation paperwork with host institution????ANY UMDNJer can correct me.

Less than 14 in-house calls ...than NEVER EVER again!

 

[Depakote]

I swore I wasn't going to do this, but well, I give in. It's been so long since HemaOncoDoc started one of these polls, it seemed like time to start another one. Plus, well, I'm hoping for new insights about this one...

Okay, right now I'm accepted to these 2 DO programs.
Since my big interest/background has been in orthopedics, I just wonder if either would be a clearcut advantage over the other for getting into a good (or any) ortho residency - either allo or osteo? (I'm aware my interests could totally change during school, but let's go with what I know so far...) Probably better to just say "any competitive specialty".
Some points I'm juggling are:
DMU seems to place a lot of people into ortho residencies, (7 in a class of 192 last year) though I know match lists are usually a reflection of the class member's interests to a good degree.
UMDNJ has an affiliated residency, so maybe that's a benefit, but how much?
DMU has 32 weeks of free elective time, while UMDNJ only has 16.
UMDNJ has better research opportunities, but I'm sure there would be opportunity at DMU as well.
UMDNJ is $10k/year less in tuition, yet DMU may have far more scholarship potential (yet to be determined...)
I'm from Massachusetts & my family & friends are all around the Northeast. It seems to me like this shouldn't be that difficult, but, well, here I am, asking for more viewpoints...

Anything else I should be finding out before deciding?

well, I turned down DMU (with a slight scholarship) for UMDNJ I was that impressed with what UMDNJ had to offer, but that's me.

 

[Orthodoc40]

well, I turned down DMU (with a slight scholarship) for UMDNJ I was that impressed with what UMDNJ had to offer, but that's me.

Yah - every person I know of that has had the choice b/w these particular 2 has gone w/UMDNJ, I've noticed. I'm sorta tryin' to get as many good reasons out of you guys as I can!

 

[jbone]

Yah - every person I know of that has had the choice b/w these particular 2 has gone w/UMDNJ, I've noticed. I'm sorta tryin' to get as many good reasons out of you guys as I can!

not my experience but sure. To each his/her own.

 

[Orthodoc40]

not my experience but sure. To each his/her own.

I was starting to think they knew something I didn't, but for the most part, it has been b/c of they felt there would be better research opportunities for them, it is closer to home (for them) and that cheaper tuition thing.

So for me, it's basically coming down to going to the school that's a lot cheaper, or the school I am more excited about.

 

[Depakote]

Yah - every person I know of that has had the choice b/w these particular 2 has gone w/UMDNJ, I've noticed. I'm sorta tryin' to get as many good reasons out of you guys as I can!

I'll go ahead and share my rationale for anyone that wants to read it:

(in no particular order)
Hospital network
UMDNJ has affiliated hospitals and you don't travel as far for rotations
Research
This is something I want to do and UMDNJ has it
Class size
Not a huge deal, but UMDNJ is definitely smaller and those joint lectures at DMU didn't help
Cost
Even v. a 1/4 scholarship, in-state tuition at UMDNJ is cheaper.
Match
UMDNJ might make it a little easier with the affiliated hospitals and research, but there's no 100% accurate way to call this
Gut feeling
UMDNJ all the way. DMU was great, and it nailed the technology, but UMDNJ had everything I was looking for in a medical school

That said, I think DMU's a great school. I'm not knocking it or anyone who goes there and I would have been happy there too. They will always hold a special place in my heart for giving me my first acceptance. I just found a better fit...

 

[stephsteph]

The pros & cons list didn't really reveal a clear winner, neither did the spreadsheet with weighted point system that Depakote shared. (UMDNJ won by 1 point... 1 point?! How can I call that a win?!)

DMU boasts an 88% match into their 1st or 2nd choice, UMDNJ claims a >90% match into their 1st choice - so both are great, obviously. As far as the schools go in general;

DMU's class size is a downer, as is the 2 team dissection thing, though both aren't fatal flaws by any stretch. And I ask you - who wouldn't enjoy having a guy that brews his own beer teaching you biochemistry?!
The only big, bad thing about DMU for me is the distance from anyone I know & love. Without being there, it's hard to tell just how much that will bug me...

UMDNJ has a few classroom and lab space/facility issues that are a downer, but even those seem to be getting addressed. Then there's the area - high crime, more malls than any area should be allowed to build. Though it is a long drive home, it's a quick flight if necessary. They seem to have a good reputation, but no one can produce the hard facts/figures for me when I ask. That's kinda fishy. Then again, it's hard to argue against the $10k/year difference in tuition.

I so wish I had been one of those lucky people who "just knew it was the place for me" when they visited one of these schools! You guys are very lucky. Makes deciding so easy!

I have the same delimma, which one did you end up choosing. And why?

 

[jbone]

DMU...not even close