DO 2022 match thread?

BoneWizard · Nov 11, 2022

drthedude said:
I asked this in a thread I made previously and it seemed unanimous agreement that neurology would remain DO friendly. I believe even @Goro and others commented on it. DO and Neurology

I mean radiology had a 92% match rate until it suddenly didn't. In 2020 you literally had a 98% chance of matching DR if your step 1 was above 220. In 2022 you had a 68% chance of matching if your step 1 was above 220.

For neurology the MD and DO match rates haven't changed much but the IMG/FMG match rate is down from 64.9% to 52.2% which suggests they're being squeezed out by US grads. Meanwhile match rate for other less competitive specialties like IM/FM/Peds/Path haven't really changed. I suspect once the IMG/FMG match rate plateaus, the DO match rate will start going down as well.

Also we can just look at charting outcomes from 2020 and 2022 for competitive specialties with more than 10 DO applicants.

	Match Rate Change DO 2020-2022	Match Rate Change MD 2020-2022	Net Applicant Change MD+DO 2020-2022	DO Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase	MD Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase
Anes	-13.0%	-0.1%	14.1%	1.1%	14.0%
Derm	-18.0%	-13.1%	19.0%	1.0%	5.9%
IR	-4.4%	0.1%	24.9%	20.5%	25.0%
NSGY	38.7%	-0.9%	0.9%	39.6%	0.0%
OBGYN	-4.3%	-2.1%	9.6%	5.3%	7.5%
Ortho	-7.6%	-13.9%	25.2%	17.6%	11.3%
ENT	4.8%	-5.7%	16.8%	21.6%	11.1%
PM&R	-20.2%	-3.8%	25.1%	4.9%	21.3%
DR	-26.8%	-12.3%	29.9%	3.1%	17.6%
GS	-7.5%	-1.6%	11.7%	4.2%	10.1%

Pretty much every competitive specialty had a decrease in match rates between 2020 and 2022 but the DO match rate dropped more than MD. If you look at the MD and DO match rate vs applicant increase (higher is better), MDs fared much better when factoring in the % of increased applications except in ortho, neurosurgery and ENT. The sample size of neurosurgery, IR and ENT is like 20 so that trend can't really be trusted.

Ex: For anesthesia ERAS reported an applicant increase of 14% between 2020 and 2022. The MD match rate didn't change. The DO match rate dropped 13% so DOs had a disproportionately lower match rate.

If you just look at raw numbers:
Number of DOs applying to the above specialties was 2,583 in 2020 and 3,214 in 2022. Increase of 24.4%
Number of DOs matching to the above specialties was 1,174 in 2020 and 1,080 in 2022. Decrease of 8%

Basically outside of orthopedic surgery DOs are getting squeezed out of anything competitive.

Whysoez · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
I mean radiology had a 92% match rate until it suddenly didn't. In 2020 you literally had a 98% chance of matching DR if your step 1 was above 220. In 2022 you had a 68% chance of matching if your step 1 was above 220.

For neurology the MD and DO match rates haven't changed much but the IMG/FMG match rate is down from 64.9% to 52.2% which suggests they're being squeezed out by US grads. Meanwhile match rate for other less competitive specialties like IM/FM/Peds/Path haven't really changed. I suspect once the IMG/FMG match rate plateaus, the DO match rate will start going down as well.

Also we can just look at charting outcomes from 2020 and 2022 for competitive specialties with more than 10 DO applicants.

Match Rate Change DO 2020-2022 Match Rate Change MD 2020-2022 Net Applicant Change MD+DO 2020-2022 DO Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase MD Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase
Anes
-13.0%
-0.1%
14.1%
1.1%
14.0%
Derm
-18.0%
-13.1%
19.0%
1.0%
5.9%
IR
-4.4%
0.1%
24.9%
20.5%
25.0%
NSGY
38.7%
-0.9%
0.9%
39.6%
0.0%
OBGYN
-4.3%
-2.1%
9.6%
5.3%
7.5%
Ortho
-7.6%
-13.9%
25.2%
17.6%
11.3%
ENT
4.8%
-5.7%
16.8%
21.6%
11.1%
PM&R
-20.2%
-3.8%
25.1%
4.9%
21.3%
DR
-26.8%
-12.3%
29.9%
3.1%
17.6%
GS
-7.5%
-1.6%
11.7%
4.2%
10.1%

Pretty much every competitive specialty had a decrease in match rates between 2020 and 2022 but the DO match rate dropped more than MD. If you look at the MD and DO match rate vs applicant increase (higher is better), MDs fared much better when factoring in the % of increased applications except in ortho, neurosurgery and ENT. The sample size of neurosurgery, IR and ENT is like 20 so that trend can't really be trusted.

Ex: For anesthesia ERAS reported an applicant increase of 14% between 2020 and 2022. The MD match rate didn't change. The DO match rate dropped 13% so DOs had a disproportionately lower match rate.

If you just look at raw numbers:
Number of DOs applying to the above specialties was 2,583 in 2020 and 3,214 in 2022. Increase of 24.4%
Number of DOs matching to the above specialties was 1,174 in 2020 and 1,080 in 2022. Decrease of 8%

Basically outside of orthopedic surgery DOs are getting squeezed out of anything competitive.

2024 is gonna be a bloodbath

DO2015CA · Nov 11, 2022

drthedude said:
no one can see what the future tells, as of now seeing a 92% match rate is nice for my *hopeful* future in 4 years

Someone just needed a pulse for psychiatry when I started medscool. By the time I graduated 4 years later, people were going on about how competitive it was. So things certainly change. I was never really interested in psych so idk how true the competitiveness was.

Niwrad · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
I mean radiology had a 92% match rate until it suddenly didn't. In 2020 you literally had a 98% chance of matching DR if your step 1 was above 220. In 2022 you had a 68% chance of matching if your step 1 was above 220.

For neurology the MD and DO match rates haven't changed much but the IMG/FMG match rate is down from 64.9% to 52.2% which suggests they're being squeezed out by US grads. Meanwhile match rate for other less competitive specialties like IM/FM/Peds/Path haven't really changed. I suspect once the IMG/FMG match rate plateaus, the DO match rate will start going down as well.

Also we can just look at charting outcomes from 2020 and 2022 for competitive specialties with more than 10 DO applicants.

Match Rate Change DO 2020-2022 Match Rate Change MD 2020-2022 Net Applicant Change MD+DO 2020-2022 DO Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase MD Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase
Anes
-13.0%
-0.1%
14.1%
1.1%
14.0%
Derm
-18.0%
-13.1%
19.0%
1.0%
5.9%
IR
-4.4%
0.1%
24.9%
20.5%
25.0%
NSGY
38.7%
-0.9%
0.9%
39.6%
0.0%
OBGYN
-4.3%
-2.1%
9.6%
5.3%
7.5%
Ortho
-7.6%
-13.9%
25.2%
17.6%
11.3%
ENT
4.8%
-5.7%
16.8%
21.6%
11.1%
PM&R
-20.2%
-3.8%
25.1%
4.9%
21.3%
DR
-26.8%
-12.3%
29.9%
3.1%
17.6%
GS
-7.5%
-1.6%
11.7%
4.2%
10.1%

Pretty much every competitive specialty had a decrease in match rates between 2020 and 2022 but the DO match rate dropped more than MD. If you look at the MD and DO match rate vs applicant increase (higher is better), MDs fared much better when factoring in the % of increased applications except in ortho, neurosurgery and ENT. The sample size of neurosurgery, IR and ENT is like 20 so that trend can't really be trusted.

Ex: For anesthesia ERAS reported an applicant increase of 14% between 2020 and 2022. The MD match rate didn't change. The DO match rate dropped 13% so DOs had a disproportionately lower match rate.

If you just look at raw numbers:
Number of DOs applying to the above specialties was 2,583 in 2020 and 3,214 in 2022. Increase of 24.4%
Number of DOs matching to the above specialties was 1,174 in 2020 and 1,080 in 2022. Decrease of 8%

Basically outside of orthopedic surgery DOs are getting squeezed out of anything competitive.

That’s odd, this isn’t the first or last time I’ve seen and been told how more DO friendly ortho has become. I’m curious as to why ortho and not general surgery.

DOVinciRobot · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
I mean radiology had a 92% match rate until it suddenly didn't. In 2020 you literally had a 98% chance of matching DR if your step 1 was above 220. In 2022 you had a 68% chance of matching if your step 1 was above 220.

For neurology the MD and DO match rates haven't changed much but the IMG/FMG match rate is down from 64.9% to 52.2% which suggests they're being squeezed out by US grads. Meanwhile match rate for other less competitive specialties like IM/FM/Peds/Path haven't really changed. I suspect once the IMG/FMG match rate plateaus, the DO match rate will start going down as well.

Also we can just look at charting outcomes from 2020 and 2022 for competitive specialties with more than 10 DO applicants.

Match Rate Change DO 2020-2022 Match Rate Change MD 2020-2022 Net Applicant Change MD+DO 2020-2022 DO Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase MD Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase
Anes
-13.0%
-0.1%
14.1%
1.1%
14.0%
Derm
-18.0%
-13.1%
19.0%
1.0%
5.9%
IR
-4.4%
0.1%
24.9%
20.5%
25.0%
NSGY
38.7%
-0.9%
0.9%
39.6%
0.0%
OBGYN
-4.3%
-2.1%
9.6%
5.3%
7.5%
Ortho
-7.6%
-13.9%
25.2%
17.6%
11.3%
ENT
4.8%
-5.7%
16.8%
21.6%
11.1%
PM&R
-20.2%
-3.8%
25.1%
4.9%
21.3%
DR
-26.8%
-12.3%
29.9%
3.1%
17.6%
GS
-7.5%
-1.6%
11.7%
4.2%
10.1%

Pretty much every competitive specialty had a decrease in match rates between 2020 and 2022 but the DO match rate dropped more than MD. If you look at the MD and DO match rate vs applicant increase (higher is better), MDs fared much better when factoring in the % of increased applications except in ortho, neurosurgery and ENT. The sample size of neurosurgery, IR and ENT is like 20 so that trend can't really be trusted.

Ex: For anesthesia ERAS reported an applicant increase of 14% between 2020 and 2022. The MD match rate didn't change. The DO match rate dropped 13% so DOs had a disproportionately lower match rate.

If you just look at raw numbers:
Number of DOs applying to the above specialties was 2,583 in 2020 and 3,214 in 2022. Increase of 24.4%
Number of DOs matching to the above specialties was 1,174 in 2020 and 1,080 in 2022. Decrease of 8%

Basically outside of orthopedic surgery DOs are getting squeezed out of anything competitive.

DOs actually are not getting “squeezed out” of competitive specialties. More DOs are matching these fields than ever. The match rate is dropping because there are more applicants than ever in the match for pretty much all specialties.

Rising numbers of applicants are making every specialty more competitive.

BoneWizard · Nov 11, 2022

Niwrad said:
That’s odd, this isn’t the first or last time I’ve seen and been told how more DO friendly ortho has become. I’m curious as to why ortho and not general surgery.

Lot of DO programs survived the AOA/ACGME merger I'd assume.

Steve_Zissou · Nov 11, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
DOs actually are not getting “squeezed out” of competitive specialties. More DOs are matching these fields than ever. The match rate is dropping because there are more applicants than ever in the match for pretty much all specialties.

Rising numbers of applicants are making every specialty more competitive.

Too many DO schools opening too quickly. It’s going to dilute the pool and probably provide many poorly trained DO residents, which will further push many specialties away from taking DOs. That isn’t to say that many of these people couldn’t be properly trained, but many of these DO schools are being hastily cobbled together and foregoing solid education and rotations for profits sake.

BoneWizard · Nov 11, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
DOs actually are not getting “squeezed out” of competitive specialties. More DOs are matching these fields than ever. The match rate is dropping because there are more applicants than ever in the match for pretty much all specialties.

Rising numbers of applicants are making every specialty more competitive.

This just isn't factually true. You can look at the number of DOs matched to competitive specialties and see it's been either trending down or staying about the same the last few years despite a significant increase in applicants.

Otherwise why would DO match rates be going down more than the increase in number of applicants?

If you look at charting outcomes for 2020 vs 2022:

	Number of DOs matched in 2020	Number of DOs matched in 2022
Anesthesia	302	251
Dematology	39	35
IR	13	20
Neurosurgery	2	9
OBGYN	209	215
Orthopedic Surgery	109	96
ENT	17	19
PM&R	164	134
Radiology	144	139
General Surgery	175	162
Total	1,174	1,080

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2020_DO-Senior_final.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-DO-Seniors-2022_Final.pdf

Sure, DOs picked up 2 spots in ENT, 6 in OBGYN and 7 in neurosurgery and IR.
They lost spots in every other field.

You can also just compare the match rates.
2020:

2022:

So not only are DOs matching fewer absolute number of graduates into these specialties, the match rate across the board in these specialties has fallen 10-20%. I mean just look at PM&R which everyone said was so DO friendly, sky's the limit etc. The match rate is the same as general surgery now.

DO2015CA · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
This just isn't factually true. You can look at the number of DOs matched to competitive specialties and see it's been either trending down or staying about the same the last few years despite a significant increase in applicants.

Otherwise why would DO match rates be going down more than the increase in number of applicants?

If you look at charting outcomes for 2020 vs 2022:

Number of DOs matched in 2020
Number of DOs matched in 2022
Anesthesia
302
251
Dematology
39
35
IR
13
20
Neurosurgery
2
9
OBGYN
209
215
Orthopedic Surgery
109
96
ENT
17
19
PM&R
164
134
Radiology
144
139
General Surgery
175
162
Total 1,174 1,080

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2020_DO-Senior_final.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-DO-Seniors-2022_Final.pdf

Sure, DOs picked up 2 spots in ENT, 6 in OBGYN and 7 in neurosurgery and IR.
They lost spots in every other field.

You can also just compare the match rates.
2020:
View attachment 361996
2022:
View attachment 361997

So not only are DOs matching fewer absolute number of graduates into these specialties, the match rate across the board in these specialties has fallen 10-20%. I mean just look at PM&R which everyone said was so DO friendly, sky's the limit etc. The match rate is the same as general surgery now.

Numbers can’t be argued. I wonder what the cause is though. Idk if it’s so much we are getting pushed out because we are DOs. USMD schools are also opening/adding seats at a record pace too. I suspect it has more to do with that. When given the opportunity, they’d rather take an MD and now they’re given that chance

deleted898021 · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
I mean radiology had a 92% match rate until it suddenly didn't. In 2020 you literally had a 98% chance of matching DR if your step 1 was above 220. In 2022 you had a 68% chance of matching if your step 1 was above 220.

For neurology the MD and DO match rates haven't changed much but the IMG/FMG match rate is down from 64.9% to 52.2% which suggests they're being squeezed out by US grads. Meanwhile match rate for other less competitive specialties like IM/FM/Peds/Path haven't really changed. I suspect once the IMG/FMG match rate plateaus, the DO match rate will start going down as well.

Also we can just look at charting outcomes from 2020 and 2022 for competitive specialties with more than 10 DO applicants.

Match Rate Change DO 2020-2022 Match Rate Change MD 2020-2022 Net Applicant Change MD+DO 2020-2022 DO Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase MD Match Rate Change vs Applicant Increase
Anes
-13.0%
-0.1%
14.1%
1.1%
14.0%
Derm
-18.0%
-13.1%
19.0%
1.0%
5.9%
IR
-4.4%
0.1%
24.9%
20.5%
25.0%
NSGY
38.7%
-0.9%
0.9%
39.6%
0.0%
OBGYN
-4.3%
-2.1%
9.6%
5.3%
7.5%
Ortho
-7.6%
-13.9%
25.2%
17.6%
11.3%
ENT
4.8%
-5.7%
16.8%
21.6%
11.1%
PM&R
-20.2%
-3.8%
25.1%
4.9%
21.3%
DR
-26.8%
-12.3%
29.9%
3.1%
17.6%
GS
-7.5%
-1.6%
11.7%
4.2%
10.1%

Pretty much every competitive specialty had a decrease in match rates between 2020 and 2022 but the DO match rate dropped more than MD. If you look at the MD and DO match rate vs applicant increase (higher is better), MDs fared much better when factoring in the % of increased applications except in ortho, neurosurgery and ENT. The sample size of neurosurgery, IR and ENT is like 20 so that trend can't really be trusted.

Ex: For anesthesia ERAS reported an applicant increase of 14% between 2020 and 2022. The MD match rate didn't change. The DO match rate dropped 13% so DOs had a disproportionately lower match rate.

If you just look at raw numbers:
Number of DOs applying to the above specialties was 2,583 in 2020 and 3,214 in 2022. Increase of 24.4%
Number of DOs matching to the above specialties was 1,174 in 2020 and 1,080 in 2022. Decrease of 8%

Basically outside of orthopedic surgery DOs are getting squeezed out of anything competitive.

Your data for the number of DO’s matched to each speciality seems off as you’re only using charting outcomes. The total # of DO matches is different:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022-Main-Match-Results-and-Data-Final-Revised.pdf

DOVinciRobot · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
This just isn't factually true. You can look at the number of DOs matched to competitive specialties and see it's been either trending down or staying about the same the last few years despite a significant increase in applicants.

Otherwise why would DO match rates be going down more than the increase in number of applicants?

If you look at charting outcomes for 2020 vs 2022:

Number of DOs matched in 2020
Number of DOs matched in 2022
Anesthesia
302
251
Dematology
39
35
IR
13
20
Neurosurgery
2
9
OBGYN
209
215
Orthopedic Surgery
109
96
ENT
17
19
PM&R
164
134
Radiology
144
139
General Surgery
175
162
Total 1,174 1,080

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2020_DO-Senior_final.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Charting-Outcomes-DO-Seniors-2022_Final.pdf

Sure, DOs picked up 2 spots in ENT, 6 in OBGYN and 7 in neurosurgery and IR.
They lost spots in every other field.

You can also just compare the match rates.
2020:
View attachment 361996
2022:
View attachment 361997

So not only are DOs matching fewer absolute number of graduates into these specialties, the match rate across the board in these specialties has fallen 10-20%. I mean just look at PM&R which everyone said was so DO friendly, sky's the limit etc. The match rate is the same as general surgery now.

DO2015CA said:
Numbers can’t be argued. I wonder what the cause is though. Idk if it’s so much we are getting pushed out because we are DOs. USMD schools are also opening/adding seats at a record pace too. I suspect it has more to do with that. When given the opportunity, they’d rather take an MD and now they’re given that chance

Numbers can be argued when they use faulty data. Charting outcomes does not include all applicants. Here is the actual data for applied and matched for DO Seniors in GS/Ortho/ENT/Derm (pgy2 only as most programs are pgy2). I included PMR in this because it is commonly used as an example of “now is unfriendly to DOs.” For PMR my number of matched is the sum of those who matched to PGY2 spots and those who matched PGY1. For the PMR applicants I simply chose the number of applicants that was highest between the pgy1 and pgy2 data and am assuming all of those applicants applied to both types of programs.

2020:
Ortho- A: 177 M: 112 63.3%
ENT- A: 33 M: 17 51.5%
Derm- A: 61 M: 35 57.3%
GS- A: 340 M: 202 59.4%
PMR- A: 226 M: 160 70.7%

2022
Ortho- A: 205 M: 111 54.1%
ENT- A: 41 M: 21 51.2%
Derm- A: 85 M: 38 44.7%
GS- A: 397 M: 212 53.4%
PMR- A: 290 M: 182 62.8%

Match rates are decreasing because of increasing numbers of applicants. The absolute number of DOs is either statistically staying the same or increasing in every specialty with enough of a sample size to statistically matter. Your example of PMR is actually a great example of my point. 22 more DO seniors matched PMR in 2022 compared to 2020 but the match rate fell by almost 10%.

A specialty like ortho will almost always have the same number of DOs matching it every year because the number of spots in the DO programs stays the same, with the fluctuation being in the variation of 1-10 that manage to match MD ortho. The match rate is plummeting because of the rise in applicants and it’s only going to get worse.

Source:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MM_Results_and-Data_2020-1.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022-Main-Match-Results-and-Data-Final-Revised.pdf

Overall my point is that DOs are not being squeezed out by any sort of “DO bias.” I would argue the bias is actually better than its ever been. Any one individual’s chances at X specialty are decreasing every year due to rampant and inexcusable school expansion.

DO2015CA · Nov 11, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
Numbers can be argued when they use faulty data. Charting outcomes does not include all applicants. Here is the actual data for applied and matched for DO Seniors in GS/Ortho/ENT/Derm (pgy2 only as most programs are pgy2). I included PMR in this because it is commonly used as an example of “now is unfriendly to DOs.” For PMR my number of matched is the sum of those who matched to PGY2 spots and those who matched PGY1. For the PMR applicants I simply chose the number of applicants that was highest between the pgy1 and pgy2 data and am assuming all of those applicants applied to both types of programs.

2020:
Ortho- A: 177 M: 112 63.3%
ENT- A: 33 M: 17 51.5%
Derm- A: 61 M: 35 57.3%
GS- A: 340 M: 202 59.4%
PMR- A: 226 M: 160 70.7%

2022
Ortho- A: 205 M: 111 54.1%
ENT- A: 41 M: 21 51.2%
Derm- A: 85 M: 38 44.7%
GS- A: 397 M: 212 53.4%
PMR- A: 290 M: 182 62.8%

Match rates are decreasing because of increasing numbers of applicants. The absolute number of DOs is either statistically staying the same or increasing in every specialty with enough of a sample size to statistically matter. Your example of PMR is actually a great example of my point. 22 more DO seniors matched PMR in 2022 compared to 2020 but the match rate fell by almost 10%.

A specialty like ortho will almost always have the same number of DOs matching it every year because the number of spots in the DO programs stays the same, with the fluctuation being in the variation of 1-10 that manage to match MD ortho. The match rate is plummeting because of the rise in applicants and it’s only going to get worse.

Source:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MM_Results_and-Data_2020-1.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022-Main-Match-Results-and-Data-Final-Revised.pdf

Overall my point is that DOs are not being squeezed out by any sort of “DO bias.” I would argue the bias is actually better than its ever been. Any one individual’s chances at X specialty are decreasing every year due to rampant and inexcusable school expansion.

Fair. Admittedly I didn’t look at their numbers because I’m far enough removed that I’m no longer invested in match data. At least there was an improvement with provided numbers not just the usually hearsay

BoneWizard · Nov 11, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
Numbers can be argued when they use faulty data. Charting outcomes does not include all applicants. Here is the actual data for applied and matched for DO Seniors in GS/Ortho/ENT/Derm (pgy2 only as most programs are pgy2). I included PMR in this because it is commonly used as an example of “now is unfriendly to DOs.” For PMR my number of matched is the sum of those who matched to PGY2 spots and those who matched PGY1. For the PMR applicants I simply chose the number of applicants that was highest between the pgy1 and pgy2 data and am assuming all of those applicants applied to both types of programs.

2020:
Ortho- A: 177 M: 112 63.3%
ENT- A: 33 M: 17 51.5%
Derm- A: 61 M: 35 57.3%
GS- A: 340 M: 202 59.4%
PMR- A: 226 M: 160 70.7%

2022
Ortho- A: 205 M: 111 54.1%
ENT- A: 41 M: 21 51.2%
Derm- A: 85 M: 38 44.7%
GS- A: 397 M: 212 53.4%
PMR- A: 290 M: 182 62.8%

Match rates are decreasing because of increasing numbers of applicants. The absolute number of DOs is either statistically staying the same or increasing in every specialty with enough of a sample size to statistically matter. Your example of PMR is actually a great example of my point. 22 more DO seniors matched PMR in 2022 compared to 2020 but the match rate fell by almost 10%.

A specialty like ortho will almost always have the same number of DOs matching it every year because the number of spots in the DO programs stays the same, with the fluctuation being in the variation of 1-10 that manage to match MD ortho. The match rate is plummeting because of the rise in applicants and it’s only going to get worse.

Source:

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MM_Results_and-Data_2020-1.pdf

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2022-Main-Match-Results-and-Data-Final-Revised.pdf

Overall my point is that DOs are not being squeezed out by any sort of “DO bias.” I would argue the bias is actually better than its ever been. Any one individual’s chances at X specialty are decreasing every year due to rampant and inexcusable school expansion.

I'm not sure how the charting outcomes selects which students to include in the data set. I used it because it was the easiest standardized data set to put in a table.

You made a typo in your PM&R match results. 2020 had 60 DO PGY1 and 120 DO PGY2 matches for PM&R for a total of 180. 2022 had 182 PGY1 and PGY2 matches. So, the match rate for DOs in 2020 was 79.6% with 180 matches. The match rate for DOs in 2022 was 62.8% with 182 matches.

This was an increase of 65 applicants and out of those 65 only 2 additional matches occurred. My point stands that the decrease in match rate is more than what is explained by just increased applicants.

Looking at PM&R some more:
225 applicants in 2020. 290 applicants in 2022. Applicants increased by 28.9%.
180 matches in 2020. 182 matches in 2022. Matched graduates increased by 1.1%.

If DOs were doing better as you say, the proportion of graduates matched should exceed the % increase in applicants. The match rate shouldn't have budged if DOs were on even footing but it went down more than the MD or IMG/FMG match rate which means while some of the decrease is due to increased # of applicants but much more of the decrease is due to a lower proportion of DOs being taken in by programs.

Meanwhile IMG/FMGs matched 29 to PM&R in 2020 and 31 in 2022 so their rates haven't really changed.

It's gone from, work hard in DO school and you'll have a good shot at any semi-competitive specialty and is trending towards- work hard in DO school and you just might get the opportunity to flip a coin to see if you match. Meanwhile the same can't be said for MDs. That's the definition of getting squeezed out to me.

DOVinciRobot · Nov 11, 2022

BoneWizard said:
Looking at PM&R some more:
225 applicants in 2020. 290 applicants in 2022. Applicants increased by 28.9%.
180 matches in 2020. 182 matches in 2022. Matched graduates increased by 1.1%.

This is quite literally evidence of my point…

DOs are being squeezed by other DOs. It’s not programs selecting against DOs.

EDThoracotomy · Nov 12, 2022

Whysoez said:
Meanwhile the amount of 1st year DO students I know who are aiming for hyper competitive specialties have only increased.

Always shocks me how many think they will match integrated plastics, neurosurgery and orthopedics.

Steve_Zissou · Nov 12, 2022

EDThoracotomy said:
Always shocks me how many think they will match integrated plastics, neurosurgery and orthopedics.

People dream big. Over half my class wanted subspecialized surgery or something competitive. 2 ortho matches, 1 derm, 4 OB, 5 gen surgery, and 3 Rads. Other than that, lots of EM, FM, and IM. In a class of 100+.

Ho0v-man · Nov 13, 2022

Whysoez said:
Meanwhile the amount of 1st year DO students I know who are aiming for hyper competitive specialties have only increased.

What makes you think current 1st year DO students want competitive fields more than prior years?

Whysoez · Nov 13, 2022

Ho0v-man said:
What makes you think current 1st year DO students want competitive fields more than prior years?

I don't think so, just more of them told me compared to last year lol.

DOVinciRobot · Nov 13, 2022

At orientation half of my class stood up and proudly proclaimed they were doing ortho. We had 0 ortho matches, 1 ophtho, 1 ENT, and 5 GS lol. We only had a handful students even capable of matching ortho and all of them applied to different competitive specialties.

Incoming DO med students are kind of delusional in general. The ones that are serious separate themselves pretty quickly honestly, and almost never talk about it.

Whysoez · Nov 13, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
At orientation half of my class stood up and proudly proclaimed they were doing ortho. We had 0 ortho matches, 1 ophtho, 1 ENT, and 5 GS lol. We only had a handful students even capable of matching ortho and all of them applied to different competitive specialties.

Incoming DO med students are kind of delusional in general. The ones that are serious separate themselves pretty quickly honestly, and almost never talk about it.

More like uninformed/ignorant, so many of them don't even know about match data or have never looked at one before 🙁.

EDThoracotomy · Nov 13, 2022

Steve_Zissou said:
People dream big. Over half my class wanted subspecialized surgery or something competitive. 2 ortho matches, 1 derm, 4 OB, 5 gen surgery, and 3 Rads. Other than that, lots of EM, FM, and IM. In a class of 100+.

Most haven’t looked into matching at all. They have no idea what it takes. They don’t u ser stand that even some of the best applicants who apply sub-specialty surgery don’t match due to one reason or another.

EDThoracotomy · Nov 13, 2022

It’s also mind blowing to me how many people have no idea what being an “insert specialty here” entails. There are students who think trauma surgery is cracking a chest in the ED with one hand while holding the repeat back with the other. They think EM is critical patients, ENT is major facial construction everyday or GS is whipples and complex surg onc. You mention fellowship and most have no idea that’s needed.

I find most students think they are the exception rather than the rule.

DOVinciRobot · Nov 13, 2022

EDThoracotomy said:
Most haven’t looked into matching at all. They have no idea what it takes. They don’t u ser stand that even some of the best applicants who apply sub-specialty surgery don’t match due to one reason or another.

This is what confused me more than anything. So many people didn’t even know what the Match was WHILE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Like it takes effort to be that Ignorant.

Whysoez · Nov 13, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
This is what confused me more than anything. So many people didn’t even know what the Match was WHILE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Like it takes effort to be that Ignorant.

My guess is most people focused so much on getting accepted into med school that they often don't pay attention to what comes after.

Neopolymath · Nov 13, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
This is what confused me more than anything. So many people didn’t even know what the Match was WHILE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Like it takes effort to be that Ignorant.

4th years that don't know how you become a surgical sub or IM sub....

Schwifty · Nov 13, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
This is what confused me more than anything. So many people didn’t even know what the Match was WHILE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Like it takes effort to be that Ignorant.

The number of student that really have no idea how the match works or how important it is to make their rank lists based on THEIR OWN PREFERENCES really concerns me. Like just watch a 5 min video on YouTube and it lays it al out for you. Also doesn't help that our school gives us no help with this.

BobbyKoch · Nov 13, 2022

Schwifty said:
The number of student that really have no idea how the match works or how important it is to make their rank lists based on THEIR OWN PREFERENCES really concerns me. Like just watch a 5 min video on YouTube and it lays it al out for you. Also doesn't help that our school gives us no help with this.

Hey at least they sent us an official reminder of when match day is….as if any of us could have missed that date.

Ho0v-man · Nov 13, 2022

Neopolymath said:
4th years that don't know how you become a surgical sub or IM sub....

I remember talking to someone I second year who said he was pretty sure he was competitive for heme/onc…in med school.

EDThoracotomy · Nov 14, 2022

DOVinciRobot said:
This is what confused me more than anything. So many people didn’t even know what the Match was WHILE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Like it takes effort to be that Ignorant.

Before I applied to med school I took a substantial amount of time to read about the match, what it entailed and research programs in specialties I thought Id like. Some students think they match straight into fellowship or that they'll be competitive for Ortho and MGH or IM at Yale. The sad thing is I noticed the ignorance generally didn't improve. as the semesters went on.

wellbutrin.girlfriend · Nov 26, 2024

I'm revisiting this thread to say that I can't believe I didn't hear about a DO from AT Still SOMA matching Psychiatry at Columbia? That's honestly so impressive-- maybe the first time? I didn't think that Columbia even interviewed DOs.

https://www.atsu.edu/pdf/26074_SOMA_postgraduate_positions_booklet_2022_DIG_07082022_GCD_1.pdf

DO2015CA · Nov 26, 2024

wellbutrin.girlfriend said:
I'm revisiting this thread to say that I can't believe I didn't hear about a DO from AT Still SOMA matching Psychiatry at Columbia? That's honestly so impressive-- maybe the first time? I didn't think that Columbia even interviewed DOs.

https://www.atsu.edu/pdf/26074_SOMA_postgraduate_positions_booklet_2022_DIG_07082022_GCD_1.pdf

meh not interesting enough to bump a 2 year old thread

wellbutrin.girlfriend · Nov 26, 2024

DO2015CA said:
meh not interesting enough to bump a 2 year old thread

As a psych applicant it's disproportionately interesting to me lol, and now it's in the archives so it'll come up when folks search in the future.

DO 2022 match thread?

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