DO 2022 match thread?

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resetti513 said:
Why would those attending physicians be pulling in ~150K-200K? That seems super low..
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Who knows but some do in super big/saturated cities and/or in academics
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DNC127 said:
I have been a part of these threads since undergrad (2015! (wow)) and while its fun here is your friendly reminder that you really do have to be careful in interpreting the match lists. As an example, one of our interns we matched (DO orthopaedics) interviewed at 15+ programs with many being MD. They ranked us 1 (which blew our mind) and on match day we got texts from residents at both do AND MD programs we know stating they ranked this person to match. The MD program that texted us would have been extra shiny on this forum. The other intern we matched also interviewed at double digit programs, and was easily a top 5 applicant in the country for both MD and DO students ((I personally read over 600 apps this year and they were the best on paper we had, think 250 and 260 USMLEs, 30+ pubs, NIH grants awarded, amazing letters from multiple programs saying they were RTM, best ortho knowledge of any study etc.). Both these people ended up at a DO program that will not look shiny on the forums.

Other examples: There was a DO student with a letter from a prominent MD program PD that literally said they would be RTM and was basically the most studly stud after completing a research year with them and this person matched at a DO program. Next, in my opinion the second best DO applicant this year who I thought would for sure match MD also matched DO. This process is literally so crazy.

While these people are all studly, I am sure there are many many star students at other schools who made similar "business decisions".

After 8 years of trying to find meaning from these lists I think the most important factors are

1. Overall pre-soap match rate (which we may never know for some schools)
2. % of residencies matched at home or nearby institutions. Take TCOM, OSU, PCOM and MSU for example. If match lists are full of "home" matches to me it indicates a security blanket of GME / connections that will likely last through the craziness of P/F boards and DO school expansion. I worry that schools without 1. Home GME and 2. nearby connections that are robust and will keep these students "home" will have a harder and harder time as DO school expansion propagates. IMO schools that used to thrive on great board scores (RVU as an example) will lose stock with p/f board due to not a ton of GME and an anti DO environment from U of C. All schools with have the occasional "glass ceiling" shattering match, but this says more about 1. the student and 2. the random process of the match than it says about the program or the school. Proceed with caution.

While it is amazing to see superstar matches, it does not tell the whole story and oftentimes is inexplainable.

This is just my take, take it or leave it.
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On a similar note I can confirm both KCU neurosurgery matches had 20+ MD interviews. Know many who in other specialties matched their top 3 which were respectable mid teir places but had interviews at big name places and ranked them lower for other personal reasons.
 
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DOVinciRobot said:
Why do we need federal regulation to limit something that 1000s of people are willing to pay?

It’s clear people don’t care that much, because they keep applying and paying the tuition. It’s not like there aren’t 40 other DO schools to apply to.

People need to start factoring finances and COL instead of just applying to things and then complaining that they cost so much. It’s like the dozens of posts on Reddit of people matching programs in big coastal cities and then getting on Reddit and complaining their salary is too low to afford even a crappy apartment at $4000/month rent…. It’s not like that info isn’t readily available to factor into application strategies.
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Because people are dumb. That's why we need federal regulation.
 
Dr.Bruh said:
On a similar note I can confirm both KCU neurosurgery matches had 20+ MD interviews. Know many who in other specialties matched their top 3 which were respectable mid teir places but had interviews at big name places and ranked them lower for other personal reasons.
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I find it interesting how DOs over the past few years (although its been a very very very select few of course) have been matching into top tier places in uber competitive specialties like Ortho (Mayo), ENT (Duke), Plastics (Penn) integrated CT (UMich), NSurg, however DOs still havent broken the glass ceiling in the IM world at the big four or T10 (Columbia, HUP, Hopkins, Duke, UCSF, UMich, MGH/BW). It goes to show you how because IM is such an old specialty the snobbery and elistism in IM as a specialty has held back some absolutely ridiculously impressive applicants because they are a DO. Ive heard of DOs getting Harvard Ortho interviews but never MGH, Hopkins or UCSF IM interviews. This post is basically me reflecting on how far weve come as DOs but also curious that possibly within the coming years as the old guys move out if we may start seeing some DOs actually matching into the T5-T10 IM programs
 
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DOVinciRobot said:
No. People should just start taking responsibility for their dumb choices.
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It's a form of consumer protection. Just because you had to pay 400k+ on a DO school doesn't mean future generations should too. Stop perpetuating this ****.
 
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Deecee2DO said:
I find it interesting how DOs over the past few years (although its been a very very very select few of course) have been matching into top tier places in uber competitive specialties like Ortho (Mayo), ENT (Duke), Plastics (Penn) integrated CT (UMich), NSurg, however DOs still havent broken the glass ceiling in the IM world at the big four or T10 (Columbia, HUP, Hopkins, Duke, UCSF, UMich, MGH/BW). It goes to show you how because IM is such an old specialty the snobbery and elistism in IM as a specialty has held back some absolutely ridiculously impressive applicants because they are a DO. Ive heard of DOs getting Harvard Ortho interviews but never MGH, Hopkins or UCSF IM interviews. This post is basically me reflecting on how far weve come as DOs but also curious that possibly within the coming years as the old guys move out if we may start seeing some DOs actually matching into the T5-T10 IM programs
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I haven't looked at the IM matches of previous years, but, as a previous post mentioned, some students may be selecting different places to attend. If you're a stellar candidate and can get into those top IM programs, you probably have a lot of options to pick from. Maybe DO students are self selecting out of those programs. Many people in my class, including myself, ranked less eye-catching programs because we felt that it was the best place for us. Match lists are deceiving.
 
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flightjordan said:
It's a form of consumer protection. Just because you had to pay 400k+ on a DO school doesn't mean future generations should too. Stop perpetuating this ****.
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No one should have to spend almost half a million dollars on med school. These interest and tuition rates are getting so bad its disturbing. No wonder “we need more PCPs” is so rampant-no one wants to pay 400K to make half that per year in salary
 
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flightjordan said:
It's a form of consumer protection. Just because you had to pay 400k+ on a DO school doesn't mean future generations should too. Stop perpetuating this ****.
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No it’s not. Go to a different DO school. It’s not that difficult. No one is forced to go to CCOM and there are almost 40 other DO schools at this point. No one is forced to go to medical school. Choices have consequences.

The federal government is the reason tuition costs are so exorbitant FYI
 
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Dr. Foresight said:
I haven't looked at the IM matches of previous years, but, as a previous post mentioned, some students may be selecting different places to attend. If you're a stellar candidate and can get into those top IM programs, you probably have a lot of options to pick from. Maybe DO students are self selecting out of those programs. Many people in my class, including myself, ranked less eye-catching programs because we felt that it was the best place for us. Match lists are deceiving.
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Stellar applicants still dont get to pick from T10 IM programs unfortunately. Even on the reddit spreadsheets no one is getting interviews at these places. I consider myself very active/knowledgeable in tracking IM matches/interviews over the years and I personally know stellar applicants on these forums and in real life this past cycle and cycles before and I have never observed this. These applicants have the credentials to break the glass celings at these places and they still arent due to bias (in my opinion). I really think its due to elitism in IM itself. Sorta sad but i think it will improve within the next 10 years maybe
 
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DOVinciRobot said:
No it’s not. Go to a different DO school. It’s not that difficult. No one is forced to go to CCOM and there are almost 40 other DO schools at this point. No one is forced to go to medical school. Choices have consequences.

The federal government is the reason tuition costs are so exorbitant FYI
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There are several DO schools with a CoA/year of around 90k. Multiple DO schools with a CoA of 100k/year. It's not just CCOM.

I genuinely feel sorry that you had to pay that much.
 
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flightjordan said:
There are several DO schools with a CoA/year of around 90k. Multiple DO schools with a CoA of 100k/year. It's not just CCOM.

I genuinely feel sorry that you had to pay that much.
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DO schools are effing expensive man. Its nuts. My DO school is technically considered a state school (RowanSOM or formerly known as UMDNJ-SOM) and is ~$70-75K/year if youre in-state and thats considered “cheap” lmao
 
flightjordan said:
There are several DO schools with a CoA/year of around 90k. Multiple DO schools with a CoA of 100k/year. It's not just CCOM.

I genuinely feel sorry that you had to pay that much.
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I didn’t lol. I chose to not apply to such expensive schools.

I’m done with the conversation. We don’t need the federal government to “fix” a problem they caused. We need to make smart financial decisions. People need to take responsibility for their decisions.
 
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DOVinciRobot said:
We don’t need the federal government to “fix” a problem they caused. We need to make smart financial decisions. People need to take responsibility for their decisions.
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flightjordan said:
Sound logic. Just leave the system broken then.
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Guys, tuition is too high and it is definitely a problem which we should try to fix. Capping tuition is way too simple of a solution. It doesn't solve the problem. Thats like saying the government should cap prices on everything right now because inflation is too high. The government should not be setting prices for anything
 
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Does anyone have any clue what the match list for WVSOM looked like this year? Doesn't seem to have been discussed yet
 
Full match list for ICOM was just released. Overall 97.2% placement rate.
Anesthesiology (5)
Dermatology (2)
Diagnostic Radiology (1)
Emergency medicine (26)
Family medicine (33)
General surgery (2)
Internal medicine (33)
Interventional radiology (1)
Neurology (4)
Obgyn (4)
Orthopedic surgery (1)
Pathology (5)
Pediatrics (8)
PM&R (1)
Prelim IM (1)
Prelim surgery (4)
Psychiatry (5)
Radiology (1)
Transitional year (5)
 

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TUWEST_509 said:
Full match list for ICOM was just released. Overall 97.2% placement rate.
Anesthesiology (5)
Dermatology (2)
Diagnostic Radiology (1)
Emergency medicine (26)
Family medicine (33)
General surgery (2)
Internal medicine (33)
Interventional radiology (1)
Neurology (4)
Obgyn (4)
Orthopedic surgery (1)
Pathology (5)
Pediatrics (8)
PM&R (1)
Prelim IM (1)
Prelim surgery (4)
Psychiatry (5)
Radiology (1)
Transitional year (5)
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2 Derms, ETSU Ortho, UArizona IR, and Henry Ford EM are nice!
 
blatauthoshunt42 said:
I don’t see it…
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FutureDoctor5000 said:
Notables from WCU
IM at places like UT San Antonio, LSU New Orleans x2, Oschner Clinic, U Buffalo, Medical college of Georgia
Gas at OG Cleveland Clinic
Derm at St Joesph Mercy, Eastern Virginia Medical School
Rad onc at SUNY Up state
PMR at IU and LSU NO
Rads somewhere not sure where yet...
Tons of Psych
OB at St Joe's Patterson, Doctors in Columbus
Peds at Ohio State
Prior grad matched vascular surgery Integrated
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Deecee2DO said:
I find it interesting how DOs over the past few years (although its been a very very very select few of course) have been matching into top tier places in uber competitive specialties like Ortho (Mayo), ENT (Duke), Plastics (Penn) integrated CT (UMich), NSurg, however DOs still havent broken the glass ceiling in the IM world at the big four or T10 (Columbia, HUP, Hopkins, Duke, UCSF, UMich, MGH/BW). It goes to show you how because IM is such an old specialty the snobbery and elistism in IM as a specialty has held back some absolutely ridiculously impressive applicants because they are a DO. Ive heard of DOs getting Harvard Ortho interviews but never MGH, Hopkins or UCSF IM interviews. This post is basically me reflecting on how far weve come as DOs but also curious that possibly within the coming years as the old guys move out if we may start seeing some DOs actually matching into the T5-T10 IM programs
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IM continues to baffle me in that regards... Top 10 IM program don't really consider DO's but I have seen matches in other upper mid tier and some top 20 programs(BCM, Emory, UNC, UVA, Yale, U Wash, WashU, Dartmouth, Brown etc) over the years. However, I'd argue that aside from the name and supposed prestige of a "top 10" institution, it matters very little in the grand scheme of things..

Did anyone ever confirm if a DO matched at WashU IM this year???
 
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FutureDoctor5000 said:
IM continues to baffle me in that regards... Top 10 IM program don't really consider DO's but I have seen matches in other upper mid tier and some top 20 programs(BCM, Emory, UNC, UVA, Yale, U Wash, WashU, Dartmouth, Brown etc) over the years. However, I'd argue that aside from the name and supposed prestige of a "top 10" institution, it matters very little in the grand scheme of things..

Did anyone ever confirm if a DO matched at WashU IM this year???
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I fact checked this and there were no DOs who matched WashU IM this year. there is one DO in the entire program and hes a PGY3 who went to KCU. Baller match for that guy probs one of if not the best DO IM match ive ever seen other than UWash. WashU and UWash are the two closest youll get to T10 for IM as a DO. There has been a Mayo Rochester IM match in the past but dont quote me on that. But yes overall the most impressive DO IM matches ive seen are upper mid tier or T30 (Brown Dartmouth UVA UNC BostonU) and T20 (Emory Yale BCM WashU UWash) where DOs compose like 1-3% of the roster
 
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Deecee2DO said:
I fact checked this and there were no DOs who matched WashU IM this year. there is one DO in the entire program and hes a PGY3 who went to KCU. Baller match for that guy probs one of if not the best DO IM match ive ever seen other than UWash. WashU and UWash are the two closest youll get to T10 for IM as a DO. There has been a Mayo Rochester IM match in the past but dont quote me on that. But yes overall the most impressive DO IM matches ive seen are upper mid tier or T30 (Brown Dartmouth UVA UNC BostonU) and T20 (Emory Yale BCM WashU UWash) where DOs compose like 1-3% of the roster
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Yeah that KCU applicant was top of our class, he was brilliant, tutoring like every course. He matched primary care track but doesn't matter, from what I can tell because he truly has been the only DO to place there.

In terms of the tippy top of IM like UCSF, MGH, NYU, I am unaware of a DO every training in their categorical and understandably so, you are competing with the cream of the crop of every other MD instigation in the nation when applying there. I think the director/chair of our bone marrow transplant team is a DO who did train at Yale a very long time ago. Idk how he did it. I think there were also maybe 1-2 DOs that ended up training at UPenn/HUP. UW seems to have a DO come through every now and then. Stanford and UCLA RR has not had one. UCSD sometimes rolls in a WesternU student. There is a single DO at UTSW who is in the PSTP track into hematology oncology, and that is very very rare for any DO to land a PSTP spot.

I think breaking the ceiling for DO's into top IM is exceptionally hard because the IM departments carry a HUGE amount of seniority. You have full, tenured MD professors who just stay on faculty and have tremendous pull, and many of them do have a say about the rank list believe it or not.
 
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DOVinciRobot said:
ETSU ortho is a DO program.
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Deecee2DO said:
goes to show how much I know about ortho or surg in general lmao
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Ortho is impressive wherever it is!
The only person that didn't match at my school applied Ortho, had decent COMLEX scores but no USMLE, they auditioned at 5 ortho programs (One of them is the Colorado programs that makes DO students pay 4000 bucks to rotate), and they only had these 5 programs interview them from 100+ apps.
 
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DrStephenStrange said:
Ortho is impressive wherever it is!
The only person that didn't match at my school applied Ortho, had decent COMLEX scores but no USMLE, they auditioned at 5 ortho programs (One of them is the Colorado programs that makes students pay 4000 bucks to rotate), and they only had these 5 programs interview them from 100+ apps.
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Why did they not take Step 1 and 2? Catastrophic mistake it seems
 
Captain_Falcon said:
Why did they not take Step 1 and 2? Catastrophic mistake it seems
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I have no idea, but it was definitely a huge mistake. I also feel like they got false hopes from the programs they auditioned at since they thought they did really well during those rotations.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
Ortho is impressive wherever it is!
The only person that didn't match at my school applied Ortho, had decent COMLEX scores but no USMLE, they auditioned at 5 ortho programs (One of them is the Colorado programs that makes DO students pay 4000 bucks to rotate), and they only had these 5 programs interview them from 100+ apps.
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DrStephenStrange said:
I have no idea, but it was definitely a huge mistake. I also feel like they got false hopes from the programs they auditioned at since they thought they did really well during those rotations.
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Rotating at the University of Colorado without a Step score shows an extreme lack of personal insight….

Not saying ETSU ortho isn’t good, but more just clarifying that it isn’t a match to a traditional MD program
 
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Top student from my school last year got a 265 Step 1, 280+ Step 2, albeit no research, got an interview at UPenn but ALAS no match.

PD's of these programs will tell you they won't take DO's because it may make their program look "weaker" when next trying to attract the next year's applicants from T10-T20 schools. I've seen multiple times on their forums mentioning how if a DO is matched at a stellar program, all of a sudden people think that program has become less competitive as opposed to thinking how amazing that DO student was compared to their peers... that somehow that person matched because that program went so far down on their rank list that no other top MD candidates wanted that spot before them. It's sad and it's Medicine culture, especially in IM. But as we've seen time and time again, it just takes one PD to be modernized and change the game around.
 
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MADD!!! said:
Top student from my school last year got a 265 Step 1, 280+ Step 2, albeit no research, got an interview at UPenn but ALAS no match.

PD's of these programs will tell you they won't take DO's because it may make their program look "weaker" when next trying to attract the next year's applicants from T10-T20 schools. I've seen multiple times on their forums mentioning how if a DO is matched at a stellar program, all of a sudden people think that program has become less competitive as opposed to thinking how amazing that DO student was compared to their peers... that somehow that person matched because that program went so far down on their rank list that no other top MD candidates wanted that spot before them. It's sad and it's Medicine culture, especially in IM. But as we've seen time and time again, it just takes one PD to be modernized and change the game around.
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Was this also for ortho? Did they ultimately match though?
 
MADD!!! said:
Top student from my school last year got a 265 Step 1, 280+ Step 2, albeit no research, got an interview at UPenn but ALAS no match.

PD's of these programs will tell you they won't take DO's because it may make their program look "weaker" when next trying to attract the next year's applicants from T10-T20 schools. I've seen multiple times on their forums mentioning how if a DO is matched at a stellar program, all of a sudden people think that program has become less competitive as opposed to thinking how amazing that DO student was compared to their peers... that somehow that person matched because that program went so far down on their rank list that no other top MD candidates wanted that spot before them. It's sad and it's Medicine culture, especially in IM. But as we've seen time and time again, it just takes one PD to be modernized and change the game around.
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Yeah definitely true! The no research on that kid was lethal though. No research will never match you at HUP for IM no matter how good your scores are. HUP is T10 for IM. But damn 280 lmao holy yikes! I think itll be a while until T10 IM (Big 4 columbia HUP Duke etc) takes a DO but hopefully we get in sooner. The thing is its never the qualifications of the DO applicant its the elitism of the PDs like you said. Some of the USMDs that end up matching their still dont touch the surface of some of these DOs who got interviews at these places and never match. DOs with 260+ Steps all honors and multiple Pubs are getting beat out by guys from HMS Columbia or Perelman with 230s Steps and maybe an honors here or there lmao so sad but thats how it works. All comes down to the “roster” and fear of losing applicants. You really think MGH is going to lose applicants because they matched a single DO lmao i dont think so. MGH is MGH and always will be Harvard one of the most prestigious institutions in the world no matter what happens.

edit: Whered 280+ end up matching lol
 
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MADD!!! said:
Top student from my school last year got a 265 Step 1, 280+ Step 2, albeit no research, got an interview at UPenn but ALAS no match.

PD's of these programs will tell you they won't take DO's because it may make their program look "weaker" when next trying to attract the next year's applicants from T10-T20 schools. I've seen multiple times on their forums mentioning how if a DO is matched at a stellar program, all of a sudden people think that program has become less competitive as opposed to thinking how amazing that DO student was compared to their peers... that somehow that person matched because that program went so far down on their rank list that no other top MD candidates wanted that spot before them. It's sad and it's Medicine culture, especially in IM. But as we've seen time and time again, it just takes one PD to be modernized and change the game around.
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Do MDs rotatate to DO ortho programs? Any MDs match to AOA ortho programs in the last couple of years? not interested in ortho as I can't bench twice my weight, but the "there goes the neighborhood" syndrome is real.
 
MDMechEngr said:
Do MDs rotatate to DO ortho programs? Any MDs match to AOA ortho programs in the last couple of years? not interested in ortho as I can't bench twice my weight, but the "there goes the neighborhood" syndrome is real.
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MDs have been matching in old AOA programs in most if not all specialties since the merger. That's one of the things DOs worried about pre-merger. Only exceptions are programs that have osteopathic recognition and still only accept DOs.
 
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MDMechEngr said:
Do MDs rotatate to DO ortho programs? Any MDs match to AOA ortho programs in the last couple of years? not interested in ortho as I can't bench twice my weight, but the "there goes the neighborhood" syndrome is real.
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Yes, but a most don’t. The DO programs obviously carry a stigma to a lot of MD students. MDs have matched former DO spots, but the number of DOs matching ortho each year has actually held steady since the merger.
 
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MADD!!! said:
Top student from my school last year got a 265 Step 1, 280+ Step 2, albeit no research, got an interview at UPenn but ALAS no match.

PD's of these programs will tell you they won't take DO's because it may make their program look "weaker" when next trying to attract the next year's applicants from T10-T20 schools. I've seen multiple times on their forums mentioning how if a DO is matched at a stellar program, all of a sudden people think that program has become less competitive as opposed to thinking how amazing that DO student was compared to their peers... that somehow that person matched because that program went so far down on their rank list that no other top MD candidates wanted that spot before them. It's sad and it's Medicine culture, especially in IM. But as we've seen time and time again, it just takes one PD to be modernized and change the game around.
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Cedars Sinai had a DO recently graduate from their cardiothoracic surgery residency. If other people suddenly, stupidly slide Cedars Sinai down their rank list because of it, I'll gladly park my ass in Beverly Hills for medical training and weep about how limited my future is because of it.
 
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MDMechEngr said:
Do MDs rotatate to DO ortho programs? Any MDs match to AOA ortho programs in the last couple of years? not interested in ortho as I can't bench twice my weight, but the "there goes the neighborhood" syndrome is real.
Click to expand...

we had a few apple to rotate with us last year but we were full by the time they applied. We also interviewed people from Harvard med school and various other top places. Times will be tough after P/F step due to many more applicants applying due to no post second year self selection
 
Are more DO's matching at traditional MD programs in ortho? To me they are(although I don't have the complete data) but scanning the match lists it seems like they are(including to places like Mayo).. the number of DO ortho matches is fairly stable post merger.
 
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