DO accreditation--it is really getting bizarre.

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+1

This is one of the major reasons the AOA still doesn't trust the ACGME, and got cold feet (maybe attempting a power play) in negotiations. They felt the ACGME was trying to strip away the heritage and identity of the degree once again like they did in California so many years ago.[/quote]

This actually an entirely fabricated lie by the AOA. The ACGME was accepting of DOs doing what ever they wanted. The AOA simply realize that they would suddenly have to kill of many organizations that no DO would ever want to be a part of when they could get MD boarded. In the end even the COMLEX was drawn to the chopping block by some pro-merger people and honestly all of that money being taken away + the sudden push towards complete and utter irrelevance of the AOA was simply too much for them to risk.
In the end within the decade the merger will happen. And I wouldn't be surprised if by the following decade the AOA & COCA become irrelevant with osteopathic medical schools continuing to teach OMM & maintaining the paradigm but awarding the MD degree.
 
Member10billion said:
What happened?? This makes no sense to me...
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In the 60s, the AMA decided to make all the DOs MDs in California. All you needed to do with go to a seminar and for 60 bucks you got a MD. However the issue came with the fact that their degrees were now suddenly not recognized and their practice capabilities severely limited. Eventually it was reversed and everyone lived happily ever after.
 
serenade said:
In the 60s, the AMA decided to make all the DOs MDs in California. All you needed to do with go to a seminar and for 60 bucks you got a MD. However the issue came with the fact that their degrees were now suddenly not recognized and their practice capabilities severely limited. Eventually it was reversed and everyone lived happily ever after.
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Oh, okay. I was so confused! I thought he was talking about something recent and I had failed at life. Thanks!
 
BestDoctorEver said:
FWIW, I want to say given the track record of University of the Incarnate Word (UIW), it won't probably be a bad DO school. They have other successful professional programs (PT, PharmD, Optometry). Of course it would be better if these new DO schools are associated public universities. But I believe opening schools that are at least associated with undergrad institutions is a heck of a lot better than these 'stand alone' DO schools.
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UIW is a good school and it definitely won't bring the DO profession down. But I just wish schools target areas that don't have any medical schools.

Like a new rule should be instituted by COCA and LCME that schools she be limited based on population state to doctor ratio or something.

I say this mostly about FL because it seems like every day a new school is in the works in FL and there's absolutely no need for one here. Larkin and the private MD school from Tampa come to mind.



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costales said:
I've seen the Incarnate Word campus. It has an odd name, but it's a legit old-fashioned Catholic school in San Antonio, started by nuns with rulers.

It's older than the University of Texas.
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But but the name sounds weird!
 
darklabel said:
UIW is a good school and it definitely won't bring the DO profession down. But I just wish schools target areas that don't have any medical schools.

Like a new rule should be instituted by COCA and LCME that schools she be limited based on population state to doctor ratio or something.

I say this mostly about FL because it seems like every day a new school is in the works in FL and there's absolutely no need for one here. Larkin and the private MD school from Tampa come to mind.



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What private MD school in Tampa are you referring to?
 
user3 said:
this is pretty much true even for a lot of people people significantly below this.

FWIW, 2 posters on here (Hvilledoc and Indianarn) applied with 3.7/22 and 3.3/22, respectively. Hvilledoc received 5 ii's and Indianarn received 4 ii's. So much for 22 being "horrible" in the eyes of schools (granted, their ii's did not come from schools like CCOM or DMU).

another poster (Victoriax) received EIGHT(!!!!) ii's with 3.1/2.9/27. So sgpa < 3.0 does not auto-screen you from most schools, contrary to popular belief.
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Unfortunately, the schools you apply to play a large part in how many II's you're going to get. If they applied to all 30 carib schools, they would have 30 acceptances.

Those types of numbers don't really mean anything without additional information. 98% of us wouldn't have gotten acceptances at the places we did with those numbers.
 
darklabel said:
UIW is a good school and it definitely won't bring the DO profession down. But I just wish schools target areas that don't have any medical schools.

Like a new rule should be instituted by COCA and LCME that schools she be limited based on population state to doctor ratio or something.

I say this mostly about FL because it seems like every day a new school is in the works in FL and there's absolutely no need for one here. Larkin and the private MD school from Tampa come to mind.



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Unfortunately, educational anti-trust laws prevent such limitations.
 
cerium said:
You all do realize that starting in 2015 the ACGME and AACOM have agreed to a single accreditation system.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx
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His post was before the agreement occurred. Everyone thought that whole thing was dead and buried in early February, then it rose like a zombie out of ****ing nowhere. There were no public announcements after the initial deal fell through, and everything happened behind closed doors, so we were all shocked when the AOA announced they hadn't, in fact, been sitting on their hands the whole time and were actually doing something for once.
 
serenade said:
When I wrote it that was not the case. In fact as a whole much of this debate happened before it was the case.
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I just wanted to put this information out there because I know people will come across this thread looking for answers to the many DO vs MD questions they may have.
 
cerium said:
I just wanted to put this information out there because I know people will come across this thread looking for answers to the many DO vs MD questions they may have.
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I don't think many people are going to 2 month old threads for recent information when there are many more recent threads on the topic and more to come.
 
ChineseKid said:
Imagine a DO school in Hawaii
Who would go? 😛
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there sorta kinda is. SOMA has a community health center here in honolulu (waianae) where students can do their second through fourth years. living here, though, is expensive. not sure if paradise is worth a high cost of living anymore. but hey, at least there are no harsh winters, or possibility of a polar vortex. 🙂
 
Why all the hate for the new DO schools? I have actually been waiting for new developments on WCOM.
 
premed1001 said:
Why all the hate for the new DO schools? I have actually been waiting for new developments on WCOM.
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As a general rule I've noticed that medical students and premed students with acceptances are more hostile to new schools as this means more students competing for a limited number of residency spots. Premed students tend to be more favorable because it can mean more places to apply and possibly get accepted.
 
Oo Cipher oO said:
As a general rule I've noticed that medical students and premed students with acceptances are more hostile to new schools as this means more students competing for a limited number of residency spots. Premed students tend to be more favorable because it can mean more places to apply and possibly get accepted.
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Not always the case. I didn't mind Marian or Campbell, but when you open LUCOM, no more sympathy.
 
And the fact that some of these schools are at rather controversial institutions. ..
 
Oo Cipher oO said:
As a general rule I've noticed that medical students and premed students with acceptances are more hostile to new schools as this means more students competing for a limited number of residency spots. Premed students tend to be more favorable because it can mean more places to apply and possibly get accepted.
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Not at all. CUSOM for example is actually opening up residencies for its students in fields even far beyond primary care. My issue is when you open up a school that brings controversy to the profession or lower the public and more importantly the opinion of PDs for residency regarding graduates of osteopathic medical schools.
 
The one thing that puzzles me about DO accreditation is how, when a fully accredited school opens an additional location, that additional location is also fully accredited, even before its doors open. Is LCME like this also? Shouldn’t the additional location be in pre-accreditation status? Or is the main campus’s reputation and history enough to go on, to also fully accredit the branch campus?
 
premed1001 said:
The one thing that puzzles me about DO accreditation is how, when a fully accredited school opens an additional location, that additional location is also fully accredited, even before its doors open. Is LCME like this also? Shouldn’t the additional location be in pre-accreditation status? Or is the main campus’s reputation and history enough to go on, to also fully accredit the branch campus?
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I think once the school has been around long enough it has the option to expand and potentially form alternative campuses. Ex. UI has 5 campuses but they are all the same school, but I imagine they also are examined come the 10 year review.
 
Lost Vagus said:
Newer school means lower average class stats--> increased chance at acceptance. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but for the most part people with above average to high stats stay away from the newer schools. I can understand maybe going to a new school if it is near your family or in your home state, but for the most part people apply to these newer schools because they think they are easier to get in to. Whether or not that is true, im not sure. Newer schools typically have a large applicant pool because everyone thinks they are easy to get in to. Kind of a catch 22.

I'm pretty mad about the merger falling through. We are family friends with a vice president of one of the DO schools and he went to the conference in Chicago to advocate for the merger. He pretty much hates the AOA and thinks they are clueless. I wish the AOA would go away. Maybe it will, but as far as the D.O. degree, it isn't going anywhere. Too many new osteopathic schools and graduates. Not to mention decade long battles fighting for degree equality. Best case scenario all medical student take the USMLE and Osteopathic students that wish to practice OMM can choose to take the Comlex

Hopefully medical degrees will be somewhat like dental degrees. Nobody cares whether their dentist is a DMD or DDS. Most people don't even know there are two degrees. I think that is something we can all hope for
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That is not going to happen, and Dental schools whether they grant DMDs or DDSs are all under the auspices of the ADA. The AOA has been running on the "Separate but Equal" mantra.

DOs were making some progress with many becoming specialists and working in academic settings, the way things are going is that we will be back to serving a niche in primary care. While the AOA claims to be making a step forward, they are making three steps backward as well.
 
Why is the accreditation system for osteopathic schools so lax in the first place? Is it because of the need to solve the PCP shortage (which is reasonable)? I have also heard things like increasing the recognition of osteopathic physicians and the DO degree. Whether or not this is true, when the bar is set so low leading to accreditation approval for hordes of DO-granting institutions that are, by in large, subpar institutions, DOs may receive increased recognition but not the positive kind.

Osteopathic physicians really suffer from a weird type of identity-crisis. Judging by the opinions on SDN, it seems some would like to get rid of the AOA all together and make the osteopathic components of their education more of an elective rather than a requirement. But wouldn't this further reinforce the negative perception of current osteopathic medical schools as a back-up for students who were not competitive enough for acceptance into an allopathic medical school (given that the only unique component of their education is reduced to an elective)?

In regards to switching of DO label to MD label, I do not think that this is going to happen. I think that the most realistic and ideal situation would be a scenario in which DOs retain the DO label but without the stigma. This would be more of a cultural shift within the medical community whereby the MDs and DOs are perceived as equals. AOA and ACGME residency merger is a step in the right direction but the accredition approval and opening of very controversial/subpar osteopathic institutions is a step in the wrong direction.
 
DrHitchcraft said:
Why is the accreditation system for osteopathic schools so lax in the first place? Is it because of the need to solve the PCP shortage (which is reasonable)?
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First of all, I don't think it is of immediate enough urgency for any COMs to warrant belittling their own credibility over a transient issue like this one. Second of all, the stigma revolving around DOs is of no bother to me, and hopefully to most DO students unless it begins to affect our opportunities to practice in a way that is desirable to us.
 
Any news on LarkinCOM? All things put aside, it'd be nice to go to school in Miami for a few years.
 
Dr. Zombie said:
"I'll go ahead and apply for medical school, and if for some reason down the road it doesn't work out, I'll try for the doctorate of osteopathy," Oliver said.

I can't believe this person named Oliver said this. I give up on life.
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What Oliver said was funny... Can't believe they have to quote that nonsense. DO has a long way to go!
 
Dr. Zombie said:
"I'll go ahead and apply for medical school, and if for some reason down the road it doesn't work out, I'll try for the doctorate of osteopathy," Oliver said.

I can't believe this person named Oliver said this. I give up on life.
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Hopefully he does more shadowing before he decides to apply. I'm cringing just thinking about my interviewer's reactions had I told them I wanted a doctorate in osteopathy during my interviews.

I think it would have gone a little something like: "Get out. Close the door."
 
TreadLightly said:
Hopefully he does more shadowing before he decides to apply. I'm cringing just thinking about my interviewer's reactions had I told them I wanted a doctorate in osteopathy during my interviews.

I think it would have gone a little something like: "Get out. Close the door."
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Ironically it seems like we will be having to explain our degree to medically-related people, than the patients themselves!
 
Dr. Zombie said:
"I'll go ahead and apply for medical school, and if for some reason down the road it doesn't work out, I'll try for the doctorate of osteopathy," Oliver said.

I can't believe this person named Oliver said this. I give up on life.
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What is actually kind of interesting is that you will meet a few students in your class who have the idea that DO schools are something totally different than medical schools. They just never go onto SDN and get all their info from DO websites and such. My anatomy labmate thought at first that in DO schools you're mostly being trained to mostly do OMM and that the "medical classes" were a side thing to go along with it, whereas most of the students who go to DO school see it as opposite.
 
CSqueed said:
What is actually kind of interesting is that you will meet a few students in your class who have the idea that DO schools are something totally different than medical schools. They just never go onto SDN and get all their info from DO websites and such. My anatomy labmate thought at first that in DO schools you're mostly being trained to mostly do OMM and that the "medical classes" were a side thing to go along with it, whereas most of the students who go to DO school see it as opposite.
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Amazing! Sometimes these interviews mean NOTHING...
 
CSqueed said:
What is actually kind of interesting is that you will meet a few students in your class who have the idea that DO schools are something totally different than medical schools. They just never go onto SDN and get all their info from DO websites and such. My anatomy labmate thought at first that in DO schools you're mostly being trained to mostly do OMM and that the "medical classes" were a side thing to go along with it, whereas most of the students who go to DO school see it as opposite.
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That's odd. Don't these people check residency match lists or anything and get a clue? Geez
 
Dr. Zombie said:
That's odd. Don't these people check residency match lists or anything and get a clue? Geez
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Not really. In undergrad, the premeds I knew applying never looked into this stuff as deeply as SDN people do. SDN is a different breed of premed. Not necessarily smarter, just more obsessed haha. I only joined in recently in medical school and was just a lurker before when I needed answers about app stuff.

Edit: To add, for not being active on SDN when applying, I only thought DO was a branch off of medicine that could enable you to do the same things MD's do. Unless you actively read this site, it's a bit harder to be convinced that MD=DO from any other sources out there (unless you blatantly shadowed a DO.)
 
CSqueed said:
Not really. In undergrad, the premeds I knew applying never looked into this stuff as deeply as SDN people do. SDN is a different breed of premed. Not necessarily smarter, just more obsessed haha. I only joined in recently in medical school and was just a lurker before when I needed answers about app stuff.

Edit: To add, for not being active on SDN when applying, I only thought DO was a branch off of medicine that could enable you to do the same things MD's do. Unless you actively read this site, it's a bit harder to be convinced that MD=DO from any other sources out there (unless you blatantly shadowed a DO.)
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That's why I love hanging out on these forums, man. I feel really empowered simply by observing and contributing to many well-considered discussions about lots of the same issues that are relevant to us in the near future. SDN may be obsessed, but it is always better to over-think than to be ignorant.
 
darklabel said:
There's 4 schools in Miami, including Nova, which is very well respected in the south FL community. I would focus on those medical schools over LarkinCOM.
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Only med schools I know of in Miami is UM and FIU.
 
1badz said:
Only med schools I know of in Miami is UM and FIU.
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My apologies, I tend to just lump south Florida with Miami

But NSU and FAU are very close in the Miami area anyways. There's no need for LarkinCOM to open a school. Besides, if you head over to the osteopathic forum, there is a rather scathing review of the hospital as a med student and resident .

I know med school isn't related to hospital management, but just some things to consider.
 
darklabel said:
My apologies, I tend to just lump south Florida with Miami

But NSU and FAU are very close in the Miami area anyways. There's no need for LarkinCOM to open a school. Besides, if you head over to the osteopathic forum, there is a rather scathing review of the hospital as a med student and resident .

I know med school isn't related to hospital management, but just some things to consider.
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If it means $$$ in executive pockets, then the cents makes sense bro.
 
darklabel said:
My apologies, I tend to just lump south Florida with Miami

But NSU and FAU are very close in the Miami area anyways. There's no need for LarkinCOM to open a school. Besides, if you head over to the osteopathic forum, there is a rather scathing review of the hospital as a med student and resident .

I know med school isn't related to hospital management, but just some things to consider.
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Yeah Larkin doesn't have the best reputation down here, at all. Almost offensive to consider Ft.Laud/Davie and Boca part of Miami - they are almost completely different countries, let alone cities. 😛
 
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