DO and MD curriculum comparison question

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I've been encouraged by a few people to apply to DO schools if I don't get into MD rather than going to MD abroad. They say that DO students can write the USMLE and often end up working as MD's which I'm not arguing.

But having looked at some of the things required from a DO doctor, I'm not sure I'd be able to do them let alone get through the schooling. Plus, would there be added stress from studying for both DO and MD Complex and USMLE (I know there's a lot of overlap but there have to be some difference, I'm not sure if they start in 2nd year or when).

Also in Canada, DO doctors are quite rare and don't really practise much so if I did go to DO school then it would have to be with the goal of becoming an MD.
 
I've been encouraged by a few people to apply to DO schools if I don't get into MD rather than going to MD abroad. They say that DO students can write the USMLE and often end up working as MD's which I'm not arguing.

But having looked at some of the things required from a DO doctor, I'm not sure I'd be able to do them let alone get through the schooling. Plus, would there be added stress from studying for both DO and MD Complex and USMLE (I know there's a lot of overlap but there have to be some difference, I'm not sure if they start in 2nd year or when).

Also in Canada, DO doctors are quite rare and don't really practise much so if I did go to DO school then it would have to be with the goal of becoming an MD.

More research on what a DO is, is needed on your part. Most of your post doesn't quite make sense...


lazy question gets minimal answer

(Hint: DO's dont become MD's. They don't need to since they are licensed at the same level)
 
tumblr_mgjkf1pMYz1riiw1do1_r1_1280.gif
 
^^^^hey now dont hate on poutine nom nom nom
 
I ain't hatin. I enjoy many of the things shown there.
 
I've been encouraged by a few people to apply to DO schools if I don't get into MD rather than going to MD abroad. They say that DO students can write the USMLE and often end up working as MD's which I'm not arguing.

But having looked at some of the things required from a DO doctor, I'm not sure I'd be able to do them let alone get through the schooling. Plus, would there be added stress from studying for both DO and MD Complex and USMLE (I know there's a lot of overlap but there have to be some difference, I'm not sure if they start in 2nd year or when).

Also in Canada, DO doctors are quite rare and don't really practise much so if I did go to DO school then it would have to be with the goal of becoming an MD.

Boss, the curriculum of MD and DO schools is virtually indistinguishable.....minus the addition of a minimal credit hour class (aka OMM google it). So if you couldnt deal with things in the DO curriculum you couldnt deal with the MD curriculum either.

Secondly, you dont need to take the USMLE unless you want to. I took both, and no additional studying is required outside of maybe a few hours studying OMM. If you get to this state of the game and another 8 hour exam is enough to deter you...then I dont know what to tell you.

Thirdly 98% of DOs practice the exact same way as MDs. You learn the same things and are trained the same way.

Lastly, DOs in canada are different than DOs in the US. US trained DOs for all intents and purposes are equal to MDs. Canadian obtained DOs are essentially chiropracters. To my knowledge most/many provinces accept US DO degrees. Quebec is one that comes to mind that doesnt.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RgN9ijwE4[/YOUTUBE]
 
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I've been encouraged by a few people to apply to DO schools if I don't get into MD rather than going to MD abroad. They say that DO students can write the USMLE and often end up working as MD's which I'm not arguing.

But having looked at some of the things required from a DO doctor, I'm not sure I'd be able to do them let alone get through the schooling. Plus, would there be added stress from studying for both DO and MD Complex and USMLE (I know there's a lot of overlap but there have to be some difference, I'm not sure if they start in 2nd year or when).

Also in Canada, DO doctors are quite rare and don't really practise much so if I did go to DO school then it would have to be with the goal of becoming an MD.

Wow, your post is filled with such a lack of information/misunderstanding, I don't even know where to start. First I would recommend just reading a tiny bit about DOs before posting on here asking about the curriculum. Its clear you know very little about the profession to begin with.

First, DOs do NOT become MDs. They are two different degrees (granted in the US and many other countries they confer no real difference in terms of profession, but they are different degrees). You cannot exchange one for the other.

Second, some provinces of Canada give DOs full practice rights as physicians (i.e. they are in the eyes of the law and medical licensing identical degrees). However, some provinces do not recognize the degree (This may no longer be true, its possible that new canadian regulations have given DOs full practice rights in all regions recently). I would look here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine#International_variations

DOs have full access to the USMLE. They are physicians. They can enter into ACGME residencies as well as AOA and combined ACGME/AOA residencies. They aren't "working as MDs", both MDs and DOs are working as physicians.

The name of the DO equivalent of the USMLE is the COMLEX, which you must take if you go to a DO school. Both are typical taken at the end of the 2nd year, before clinical rotations.

The curriculum of DO schools is essentially indistinguishable from that of MD schools, with the exception that DO schools have a minimum of 200 course hours in OMM (osteopathic manipulative medicine) or OMT (treatment). Now of course, that means slightly less hours of basic science, but since no school is identical there are many MD schools that say have similarly less hours of basic science replaced with work in a clinic, etc.

As a Canadian though, if you go to a DO school, you will have to match in the US and will only really be able to return to Canada after residency, and even then you'd have to go to the specific provinces that grant the DO degree full practice rights.
 
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Second, some provinces of Canada give DOs full practice rights as physicians (i.e. they are in the eyes of the law and medical licensing identical degrees). However, some provinces do not recognize the degree. I would look here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine#International_variations
According to the link, they all do. I know they had paperwork in Canadian legislation. Anyone can confirm if the wiki data is reliable?
 
According to the link, they all do. I know they had paperwork in Canadian legislation. Anyone can confirm if the wiki data is reliable?

Huh? I swear I read that like a month ago and it listed 2 provinces that were limited to OMM.

This may be recent stuff. Also, for OP, you should check out: http://www.osteopathic.ca/
 
But having looked at some of the things required from a DO doctor, I'm not sure I'd be able to do them let alone get through the schooling. Plus, would there be added stress from studying for both DO and MD Complex and USMLE (I know there's a lot of overlap but there have to be some difference, I'm not sure if they start in 2nd year or when).

Im a DO student, let me answer this question. Essentially the only thing different between COMLEX and USMLE is the OMM component, what many people do is just to study for USMLE plus a week studying for OMM, this should get you through.

To be honest, many people in my class dislike OMM, but just gotta suck it up; yes people complain about it sometimes, but It's not like OMM is overly difficult, and you can totally get by with studying OMM right before each exam. Think of OMM being that annoying English literature class that you have to take in undergrad in order to graduate

Just like not wanting to take that English literature class is no excuse for not getting a Bachelor's degree, If you want to be a doctor, just go for it, OMM shouldn't be the thing that stops you.
 
Im a DO student, let me answer this question. Essentially the only thing different between COMLEX and USMLE is the OMM component, what many people do is just to study for USMLE plus a week studying for OMM, this should get you through.

To be honest, many people in my class dislike OMM, but just gotta suck it up; yes people complain about it sometimes, but It's not like OMM is overly difficult, and you can totally get by with studying OMM right before each exam. Think of OMM being that annoying English literature class that you have to take in undergrad in order to graduate

Just like not wanting to take that English literature class is no excuse for not getting a Bachelor's degree, If you want to be a doctor, just go for it, OMM shouldn't be the thing that stops you.


I've heard this a lot, and since I wont actually start med school until this fall, I would guess that my opinion here is premature...

BUT, doesn't blowing off OMM seem like such a waste? I know that you didn't say your opinion on it one way or another, so I'm by no means calling you out. But, what I do mean is this:

Even though there is less than 1% chance that I end up specializing in OMM, I look forward that class. It seems like a decent repeat of Anatomy concepts and, given its results, a great tool to have in the ol physician belt.

I realize not everyone will be ecstatic about the class, but I for one look forward to it. To me, its more like the deductive reasoning class I took (or history of philosophy...or snow boarding class). Its sort of elective in subject matter, meaning you dont need it to be a good doc, but it sure can enhance the way you think about the body and medicine in general if you use it correctly.


Anywho, so says I
 
I wouldn't say the COMLEX is just like the USMLE. I would say this. If you study and learn the content for the USMLE you will be prepared for the COMLEX as well in terms of general medical content. However, I would say it is necessary to take an additional week to study for the COMLEX in terms of the OMM component as well as the question STYLE. It is much different than on the USMLE and requires specific practice.

Survivor DO

Im a DO student, let me answer this question. Essentially the only thing different between COMLEX and USMLE is the OMM component, what many people do is just to study for USMLE plus a week studying for OMM, this should get you through.

To be honest, many people in my class dislike OMM, but just gotta suck it up; yes people complain about it sometimes, but It's not like OMM is overly difficult, and you can totally get by with studying OMM right before each exam. Think of OMM being that annoying English literature class that you have to take in undergrad in order to graduate

Just like not wanting to take that English literature class is no excuse for not getting a Bachelor's degree, If you want to be a doctor, just go for it, OMM shouldn't be the thing that stops you.
 
Guys, remember that USMLE and COMLEX are merging.
 
Guys, remember that USMLE and COMLEX are merging.

This might be a joke, but just in case...no, they aren't.

ACGME is "merging" (absorbing) the AOA, meaning all AOA GME programs will be dually accredited. But, for now and the foreseeable future, the two tests remain the same.
 
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I wouldn't say the COMLEX is just like the USMLE. I would say this. If you study and learn the content for the USMLE you will be prepared for the COMLEX as well in terms of general medical content. However, I would say it is necessary to take an additional week to study for the COMLEX in terms of the OMM component as well as the question STYLE. It is much different than on the USMLE and requires specific practice.

Survivor DO

Right, i agree with you! For material other than OMM, If you prepare for one, you have enough knowledge for both.


BUT, doesn't blowing off OMM seem like such a waste? I know that you didn't say your opinion on it one way or another, so I'm by no means calling you out. But, what I do mean is this:

Even though there is less than 1% chance that I end up specializing in OMM, I look forward that class. It seems like a decent repeat of Anatomy concepts and, given its results, a great tool to have in the ol physician belt.

I realize not everyone will be ecstatic about the class, but I for one look forward to it. To me, its more like the deductive reasoning class I took (or history of philosophy...or snow boarding class). Its sort of elective in subject matter, meaning you dont need it to be a good doc, but it sure can enhance the way you think about the body and medicine in general if you use it correctly.

You are correct, it does give you more tools as a physician in the future that you can elect to use (or not) after you enter practice, in fact if I open my own family practice clinic, I will probably use OMM in one form or another (power of touch is pretty important in medicine). But I must point out that your belief about OMM and how it being deductive reasoning is not accurate. Once you start med school, you will find out that OMM is taught like an entirely separate entity, and what you learn in that class seems to have nothing to do whatsoever with more EBM stuff, and some of the theories of OMM are simply whacky to say the least.

Also OMM labs for some reason are pretty physically tiring. Generally after OMM lab days people just feel drained and have no energy to study for other things.
 
👍 Cool, I think we agree, then.

I think you misunderstood my class comparison though. I wasn't saying that OMM is like deductive reasoning in subject matter, I mean its like any given class I took during undergrad that wast directly a part of my major (or pre-med) but still indirectly enhanced my education. (Deductive logic class was one example of such a class, but I could have used another)

Maybe being tired after OMM will be incentive to work out a bit more? 😉😀


But, yeah,Thanks for your insight on your experience with OMM class/lab. It's alway nice to hear different views on the various classes ahead of us.
 
Maybe being tired after OMM will be incentive to work out a bit more? 😉😀

Perhaps... At my school OMM is taught with clinical skills on the same day, together they take about 8 hours (8am-5pm, although sometimes we get out early). I'm more of a night owl and usually don't wake up until 10 or 11, OMM day ruins my circadian rhythm.
 
Perhaps... At my school OMM is taught with clinical skills on the same day, together they take about 8 hours (8am-5pm, although sometimes we get out early). I'm more of a night owl and usually don't wake up until 10 or 11, OMM day ruins my circadian rhythm.

Thats a monster day for sure
 
andddd now i'm craving Tim Hortons

THANKS KENOBI

:laugh: no problem eh.

You guys ever notice how the OP never comes back in these minds of threads?

They start the thread and linger in the thread, but never comment again. I guess they are hoping that other trolls continue the dumb, or better yet the thread disintegrates into a full fledged MD v DO battle. Those days are coming to a ma faqin end in pre osteo son. They might still get one or two posts from a like minded troll before we are able to effectively dismantle the nonsense with cats and Star Wars. So.damn.jedi:naughty:
 
Just ordered a tin of Tim Horton's ground coffee this morning.

Sent from my Galaxy S2
 
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or better yet the thread disintegrates into a full fledged MD v DO battle. Those days are coming to a ma faqin end in pre osteo son. They might still get one or two posts from a like minded troll before we are able to effectively dismantle the nonsense with cats and Star Wars. So.damn.jedi:naughty:

No kidding man. I've noticed that most troll threads around pre-osteo have been quickly dismantled nowadays...which is pure quality. Every troll thread should have a mandatory star wars/cats flame war commence immediately.
 
I wouldn't say the COMLEX is just like the USMLE. I would say this. If you study and learn the content for the USMLE you will be prepared for the COMLEX as well in terms of general medical content. However, I would say it is necessary to take an additional week to study for the COMLEX in terms of the OMM component as well as the question STYLE. It is much different than on the USMLE and requires specific practice.

Survivor DO

Is a week usually enough to both study the OMM and get use to the different question style? I guess med school probably makes you a LOT more productive/efficient.

No kidding man. I've noticed that most troll threads around pre-osteo have been quickly dismantled nowadays...which is pure quality. Every troll thread should have a mandatory star wars/cats flame war commence immediately.

👍
 
Is a week usually enough to both study the OMM and get use to the different question style? I guess med school probably makes you a LOT more productive/efficient.

absolutely, I'd recommend you get a copy of Saverese to kinda read ahead. You will probably buy it as a med student anyways, it is like a OMM bible in terms of board and test preparation, everybody has one.
 
:laugh: no problem eh.



They start the thread and linger in the thread, but never comment again. I guess they are hoping that other trolls continue the dumb, or better yet the thread disintegrates into a full fledged MD v DO battle. Those days are coming to a ma faqin end in pre osteo son. They might still get one or two posts from a like minded troll before we are able to effectively dismantle the nonsense with cats and Star Wars. So.damn.jedi:naughty:

He/She is a not a troll if they are Canadian. Very few Canadians know what a DO is, in the whole country there is a small handful of DO physicians (less than 20, and almost every one in primary care in a rural location). Also there is another website for Canadian pre-meds/medical students and SDN is used much less, so my guess is that he/she doesnt check this site much.

"You have to do residency in the US". Whoever said that is incorrect. Canadian DOs can apply to CaRMs (canadian residency matching service), but the chances of scoring a non-primary care residency are very small. This might change in the near future with the tidal wave of Canadians graduating from US DO schools in the next 2-3 years. The degree only became a known option to Canadians 2-3 years ago, with it gaining popularity as an option instead of going to the Caribbean, Australia, or Ireland after not being able to get into the crazy competitive Canadian MD schools. Soooo the chances of doing a specialty you want are much better if you stay in the US and do an ACGME residency (+ maybe fellowship to make training lengths even between the countries depending on specialty) and returning to Canada to work, although the job market for some specialties is horrible in Canada right now.
 
He/She is a not a troll if they are Canadian. Very few Canadians know what a DO is, in the whole country there is a small handful of DO physicians (less than 20, and almost every one in primary care in a rural location). Also there is another website for Canadian pre-meds/medical students and SDN is used much less, so my guess is that he/she doesnt check this site much.

Is it really that small? I would think it would be bigger just by the chance of DOs moving from the US to Canada. I noticed that the DO degree is getting bigger for a lot of Canadians. Plus they have the COA, which is pushing for students to go to MSUCOM. If what you say is right, that 20 Canadian DO number will triple just from the 2015 and 2016 classes of Canadian MSU-COM students.
 
Have people in this thread actually discussed the academic curriculums of the DO vs MD? Or has it been all unrelated discussion so far?
 
Have people in this thread actually discussed the academic curriculums of the DO vs MD? Or has it been all unrelated discussion so far?

Wow. Dude this thread isn't even that long nothing is stopping you from ya know reading it

Sent from my SCH-I405 using SDN Mobile
 
Have people in this thread actually discussed the academic curriculums of the DO vs MD? Or has it been all unrelated discussion so far?

no time to skim 1 page of content?

Also, this is a topic that should first utilize the search function. OP's question showed a lack of basic understanding of DOs, so more work on their part would be needed to prompt any real discussion round these parts.

👍
 
He/She is a not a troll if they are Canadian. Very few Canadians know what a DO is, in the whole country there is a small handful of DO physicians (less than 20, and almost every one in primary care in a rural location). Also there is another website for Canadian pre-meds/medical students and SDN is used much less, so my guess is that he/she doesnt check this site much.

I was speaking more in response to the post I quoted referring to the trend where OPs never return to these type of threads...

I guess being from Canada exempts one from trolling...however,this OP hung around in here for quite a while without saying a thing, or even responding with follow-up questions to the people who actually attempted to somewhat answered their lazy attempt to troll/gather information---whichever it was.

Proof that Canadian trolls exist:



images
 
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Hey guys I'm Canadian (therefore not a troll).

I was wondering if any of the DO credits transfer to janitor school?


Sent from my Galaxy S2
 
Hey guys I'm Canadian (therefore not a troll).

I was wondering if any of the DO credits transfer to janitor school?


Sent from my Galaxy S2
Your Pee-Chem and Applied Organic Solvents in Janitorial Services probably will. You'll have to check with a few Janitorial Schools that you're interested in for the rest of the information. I would recommend seeing the Management of Sewage and Accumulated Refuse (MSAR) guide says before calling them, though.

Good luck to the Canadians. Now back to cats...
 
Hey guys I'm Canadian (therefore not a troll).

I was wondering if any of the DO credits transfer to janitor school?


Sent from my Galaxy S2

Just read this book, it will answer most of your questions. Written by the John Hopkins bastard brother too so you know it's legit.

the-janitor-book.jpg
 
Hey guys I'm Canadian (therefore not a troll).

I was wondering if any of the DO credits transfer to janitor school?


Sent from my Galaxy S2


I mean, cant argue with dat logic!!



Your Pee-Chem and Applied Organic Solvents in Janitorial Services probably will. You'll have to check with a few Janitorial Schools that you're interested in for the rest of the information. I would recommend seeing the Management of Sewage and Accumulated Refuse (MSAR) guide says before calling them, though.

Good luck to the Canadians. Now back to cats...


:laugh:

that was clever...bravo, good sir.
 
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