Do Asians have a harder time getting off waitlists?

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Chishiki

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I've been put on 4 waitlists (2 in CA, 2 OOS) and was wondering if Asians have more difficulty getting off since they are already over-representated in medicine, especially in CA? I am super bummed about the 4 waitlists and pretty sure it's due to interview skills...should I focus on reapplying now? Thank you.
 
Do Asians have a harder time getting off waitlists?
I've been put on 4 waitlists (2 in CA, 2 OOS) and was wondering if Asians have more difficulty getting off since they are already over-representated in medicine, especially in CA? I am super bummed about the 4 waitlists and pretty sure it's due to interview skills...should I focus on reapplying now? Thank you.

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A faculty member of a top 5 med school told me that it's difficult for Asians because they are compared among other Asians, where the average grades and MCATs tend to be higher than other demographics. He said it's unfortunate but it's just the nature of the game. He also said being an Asian girl is probably most difficult because so many of them have such high marks and good ECs.

But whether or not that's really true, at the end of the day you just have to do your best anyways.
 
A faculty member of a top 5 med school told me that it's difficult for Asians because they are compared among other Asians, where the average grades and MCATs tend to be higher than other demographics. He said it's unfortunate but it's just the nature of the game. He also said being an Asian girl is probably most difficult because so many of them have such high marks and good ECs.

But whether or not that's really true, at the end of the day you just have to do your best anyways.
I dont doubt that, but if there were strict quota's that would be reflected in reduced percentage of Asians being accepted to medical school compared to Whites. This is really not the case. There is about a .5 mcat point diffference between asians and whites IIRC, this difference is both in the applicant pool and the matriculant pool. So asians that apply have higher scores and asians that matriculate have higher scores. Proportionally no one is getting boned.
 
I dont doubt that, but if there were strict quota's that would be reflected in reduced percentage of Asians being accepted to medical school compared to Whites. This is really not the case. There is about a .5 mcat point diffference between asians and whites IIRC, this difference is both in the applicant pool and the matriculant pool. So asians that apply have higher scores and asians that matriculate have higher scores. Proportionally no one is getting boned.

Well if there was a quota I don't think it's necessary that the amount of Asians need to be lower than the amount of Whites in the schools, they can just put some arbitrary limit and say we can't have them take up more than 35% of the class even if there are a lot of Asian applicants for this school with qualified apps. I think it would also depend on the school that you've applied to and what those averages are for that applicant pool.

I've met lots of Asians in Cali that try to apply to med schools there but can't grab an interview even if their stats and ECs are up to par. There are URM applicants that can grab interviews with lower stats even if both the Asian applicant and URM applicant comes from a low socioeconomic background and they're the first in their family to go to college. Probably a confirmation bias, but I can see why there's this perception that it may be more difficult for an Asian candidate to get in.
 
Well if there was a quota I don't think it's necessary that the amount of Asians need to be lower than the amount of Whites in the schools, they can just put some arbitrary limit and say we can't have them take up more than 35% of the class even if there are a lot of Asian applicants for this school with qualified apps. I think it would also depend on the school that you've applied to and what those averages are for that applicant pool.

I've met lots of Asians in Cali that try to apply to med schools there but can't grab an interview even if their stats and ECs are up to par. There are URM applicants that can grab interviews with lower stats even if both the Asian applicant and URM applicant comes from a low socioeconomic background and they're the first in their family to go to college. Probably a confirmation bias, but I can see why there's this perception that it may be more difficult for an Asian candidate to get in.
37% of asians applicants from CA matriculate 38% of white applicants matriculate. More asian applicants apply and matriculate in california. I am still scratching my head as to how that would be possible with a quota.
 
37% of asians applicants from CA matriculate 38% of white applicants matriculate. More asian applicants apply and matriculate in california. I am still scratching my head as to how that would be possible with a quota.

I'm not sure either, but it's interesting how there's this wide spread perception that there might be one just from anecdotal accounts.

I often hear people saying "Oh that score is too low for an Asian applicant, so retake the MCAT " and this is coming from faculty members of a university or pre-med advisers. They make it seem like if your scores aren't high, especially since you're Asian, you can just forget about applying. Not sure why there's this emphasis on race. If the score is too low it's too low right? Never heard of someone saying that the score is too low for a White person.

At the end of the day what matters is what's written on the MSAR for the school and whether or not your scores are within the range. I'm sure there are cases where there are Asian applicants with super high scores and then they bomb the interview. Then they might blame their rejection on a "quota" instead of poor interviewing skills.
 
I'm not sure either, but it's interesting how there's this wide spread perception that there might be one just from anecdotal accounts.

I often hear people saying "Oh that score is too low for an Asian applicant, so retake the MCAT " and this is coming from faculty members of a university or pre-med advisers. They make it seem like if your scores aren't high, especially since you're Asian, you can just forget about applying. Not sure why there's this emphasis on race. If the score is too low it's too low right? Never heard of someone saying that the score is too low for a White person.

At the end of the day what matters is what's written on the MSAR for the school and whether or not your scores are within the range. I'm sure there are cases where there are Asian applicants with super high scores and then they bomb the interview. Then they might blame their rejection on a "quota" instead of poor interviewing skills.
These people have no idea what they are doing for the most part.
The data doesnt bear out such perceptions.In all actuallity Asian applicants and matriculants have higher MCAT scores, but the entire asian applicant pool does so the median shifts to the right. the difference is half a point or a point. The data is cold and a source of truth and does not point to a qouta for asian applicants in the state of california.
 
These people have no idea what they are doing for the most part.
The data doesnt bear out such perceptions.In all actuallity Asian applicants and matriculants have higher MCAT scores, but the entire asian applicant pool does so the median shifts to the right. the difference is half a point or a point. The data is cold and a source of truth and does not point to a qouta for asian applicants in the state of california.

Yup I agree with you. The data doesn't imply that there is a discriminatory quota. When there was a legit Jewish quota among the Ivy league med schools in the 19th and 20th century you can totally see the stark contrast in the # of Jewish med students at schools with the quota and without the quota.
 
I've been put on 4 waitlists (2 in CA, 2 OOS) and was wondering if Asians have more difficulty getting off since they are already over-representated in medicine, especially in CA? I am super bummed about the 4 waitlists and pretty sure it's due to interview skills...should I focus on reapplying now? Thank you.

If it's 4 for 4 in terms of WL then I strongly believe it's your interviewing skills. You look good on paper...but you need to seal the deal when it comes to convincing your interviewers. I would do mock interviews or practice with a friend for future interviews if you still have some upcoming.
 
That is a little too general. I dont know the ratio of interviewees to accepted at CA schools but at some of the schools in the East, you could have 4-8 interviewees for each spot. People overlook that this is really an Olympic level competition and that almost everyone is within a fraction of a second of the gold at the interview, especially after about 80% are cut prior to the interview.

Not really...statistically if you have 3 interviews...you have a really good chance of an acceptance. To go 4 for 4 with WL...I think the applicant looks good on paper but fails to connect with the school or interviewer.

IF we assume the lowest post-II schools...let's assume all of the 4 schools are 20% acceptance rate post II (mayo-like numbers). To be not accepted at all 4 schools:

Not Accepted: (0.8)(0.8)(0.8)(0.8)= 0.41
Acceptance Rate based on 4 interviews at schools with the lowest post-II acceptance rate:
100-41%= 59% which is above the average for applicants.

So even if you interviewed at 4 Mayos in one cycle...you'd still have a 60% chance of getting into Mayo. Sure, we can throw around anecdotes and such but the stats speak for themselves. OP had/has a great chance...it's got nothing to do with URM or ORM status when you have 4 IIs. I speak coming from the similar background as OP.
 
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Not really...statistically if you have 3 interviews...you have a really good chance of an acceptance. To go 4 for 4 with WL...I think the applicant looks good on paper but fails to connect with the school or interviewer.

IF we assume the lowest post-II schools...let's assume all of the 4 schools are 20% acceptance rate post II (mayo-like numbers). To be not accepted at all 4 schools:

Not Accepted: (0.8)(0.8)(0.8)(0.8)= 0.41
Acceptance Rate based on 4 interviews at schools with the lowest post-II acceptance rate:
100-41%= 59% which is above the average for applicants.

So even if you interviewed at 4 Mayos in one cycle...you'd still have a 60% chance of getting into Mayo. Sure, we can throw around anecdotes and such but the stats speak for themselves. OP had/has a great chance...it's got nothing to do with URM or ORM status when you have 4 IIs. I speak coming from the similar background as OP.
That assumes that the chances of acceptance post interview are random.
 
That assumes that the chances of acceptance post interview are random.

That's a double standard. If you accept the fact that 40% of applicants matriculate and applicants with 3+ interviews have a significant chance of getting in...then there is no reason to believe that OP's scenario doesn't apply. OP isn't some special snowflake case.
 
That's a double standard. If you accept the fact that 40% of applicants matriculate and applicants with 3+ interviews have a significant chance of getting in...then there is no reason to believe that OP's scenario doesn't apply. OP isn't some special snowflake case.
I am unsure what you mean by double standard. A random 40% of the applicant pool does not matriculate. And interviews have rubrics that they evaluate the applicant on rather then throwing bones after the interview to determine the outcome. I am saying it may have nothing to do with OP being Asian and everything to do with OPs overall app and interview performance.
 
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I am unsure what you mean by double standard. A random 40% of the applicant pool does not matriculate. And interviews have rubrics that they evaluate the applicant on rather then throwing bones after the interview to determine the outcome. I am saying it may have nothing to do with OP being Asian and everything to do with OPs overall app and interview performance.


The post-II acceptance rates are not random...so the math that I did does not depend on randomness. I get what you're saying on a technical level but you're picking and choosing which stat to apply randomness to when the whole process already screened for that.

The odds of flipping a coin heads three times in a row is : (0.5)(0.5)(0.5)---this is random

But if I told you...No...the odds are 20% now with this special coin I made (cuz I am almighty and i set the rules)---this is not random. Same with these post-II acceptance rates...we know the rate...we know it's not random...I was merely assigning a probability to a non-random event with known rate ( the non-randomness of the event is accounted for in the rate).

Statistics majors can correct me if I'm wrong of course...

Otherwise I agree with everything else you said.
 
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Depends. Some schools select people from the waitlist in order to "round out" their class and may choose a certain demographic or gender to meet their needs. Others have a ranked list and place little weight on these factors.
 
To answer your original question, yes, Asians do have a harder time getting off waitlists than URMs. As for your reapplying, it is NOVEMBER. Schools still send out invites in Feb/March. You are fine and probably will get into a school you applied to.
 
Depends. Some schools select people from the waitlist in order to "round out" their class and may choose a certain demographic or gender to meet their needs. Others have a ranked list and place little weight on these factors.

yeah all my waitlists are unranked, so this is what i was wondering. if all my schools use waitlists to round out their class, do i have a less chance of being accepted due to the surplus of asians applying to medical school? i'd like to stay in CA but i understand that it's really difficult for anyone, so i'm just going to focus on reapplying next year
 
To answer your original question, yes, Asians do have a harder time getting off waitlists than URMs. As for your reapplying, it is NOVEMBER. Schools still send out invites in Feb/March. You are fine and probably will get into a school you applied to.
thanks for the response! and thanks to everyone else! sorry if i annoyed anyone with my question, it's been a stressful time
 
There's a reason why URMs may have less trouble getting off of wait lists....it's because they're under-represented. This has published medical outcomes.

People need to remember that it's not about what they want, but what the school wants. A career in Medicine is a privilege, not a reward for high grades or being a good student. No one, and I mean NO ONE has a right to a seat in med school.

To answer your original question, yes, Asians do have a harder time getting off waitlists than URMs. As for your reapplying, it is NOVEMBER. Schools still send out invites in Feb/March. You are fine and probably will get into a school you applied to.
 
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Everyone is capable of getting off. I don't think being Asian makes it harder for one to get off. A buddy of mine is just hoping to get off by the summer.

People get off all the time 🙂
 
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Waitlist movement is not some hard and fast set of criteria. At many schools, if not most, WL are at least generally categorized into high, medium, low. There is also at many schools, a less formal process in coming off WL. To explain, everyone on the WL has passed the adcom review as qualified/accepted to medical school. They simply didnt enough open seats to offer. As seats do open, either the committee as a whole, perhaps only on the first large wave of WL, will meet to approve, but usually it is a subcommittee, adcom staff, and/or key members. This is also often where the 1 or 2 "pet" acceptees of members (ie someone they really liked) who didnt get in first round might get pushed by their advocates. As the WL cycle goes on, it becomes more chaotic as you may a spot open up but the first 5 people on WL have accepted elsewhere, have to wait until they reply back to accept or not. Some schools, though not that common, may look at where the next WL has been accepted to see if they have accepted to another "higher ranked" school. By the middle of the WL cycle (mid-late June), any ranking of WL people is just thrown out of whack from this chaos, hence why most schools just use broad categories. As the late cycle goes in July and August, often schools take whomever they can contact first on WL. In the "old days" (before email and cell phones) I know of a couple of doctors who got phone calls just 2 or 3 days before classes started. Why where they chosen? First one who picked up the phone or they lived close to the school.

Sometimes it is just luck of the draw
wow thanks so much for the detailed response! 🙂

1 more question - if they see someone with no acceptances yet, does that come off as an undesirable student? or would it be helpful since that person would definitely attend that school if taken off the waitlist?
 
Like I said before...going 4 for 4 WL...I feel it's more to do with interview skills than anything else.
 
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Like I said before...going 4 for 4 WL...I feel it's more to do with interview skills than anything else.
yes i totally agree (i said that in my very first post) but i'm just trying to gauge my chances and plan for next year in case i need to reapply. will definitely work on my interview skills above anything else!
 
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