DO curriculum vs MD curriculum

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INDIGOSOLAR

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I see a great many (emotional!) posts on DO/MD schools and which is better, makes more money, blah blah, but what I want to know is, what is the big difference in the actual school curriculum? Classes etc...

If this has already been explained I apologize, I'm new to the forum and have not had time to go through all the threads. This is a WONDERFUL resource BTW. Wish I found it years ago.

thanks
 
I see a great many (emotional!) posts on DO/MD schools and which is better, makes more money, blah blah, but what I want to know is, what is the big difference in the actual school curriculum? Classes etc...

If this has already been explained I apologize, I'm new to the forum and have not had time to go through all the threads. This is a WONDERFUL resource BTW. Wish I found it years ago.

thanks

Some days I wish I never found it ...

Anyway, med students will come in and give you a more accurate response, but the bottom line is that DO is MD curriculum + OMM.
 
I see a great many (emotional!) posts on DO/MD schools and which is better, makes more money, blah blah, but what I want to know is, what is the big difference in the actual school curriculum? Classes etc...

If this has already been explained I apologize, I'm new to the forum and have not had time to go through all the threads. This is a WONDERFUL resource BTW. Wish I found it years ago.

thanks

The only grossly generalizable difference is the inclusion of manipulative techniques taught in DO school.

Differences in holism/compassion/primary care emphasis/gearing training to produce rural docs/etc. are also present, but mostly between schools and not so much between degrees.
 
First two years: identical except:
- DO schools include OMM training, MD schools don't
- lots of variance, school by school

Any MD/DO school covers the subjects tested on both USMLE and COMLEX.

Second two years: totally depends on the school
- MD/DO schools with attached academic hospitals offer more research opportunities
.....(includes PCOM, TCOM and MSUCOM and lots of MD schools)
- most MD/DO schools have tight affiliations with local hospitals
- MD/DO schools with a primary care focus may require more family practice and/or rural rotations
- some MD/DO schools farm some students out for rotations, possibly to other states
.....(includes U of Washington and other public schools)

And you can find some wild-ass curricula, like at ATSU-SOMA, which isn't representative of what you'd find anywhere else.

Best of luck to you.
 
In general, regardless of where you attend medical school DO or MD, the material you cover during your first and second years will be pretty much the same. However, there are some differences, and this is coming for a pre-med, so take that into consideration(i.e. i don't know anything).

At any rate, from pretty much every physician i have spoken to, MDs recieve a better basic science training, so courses like biochem and pathology, are better at most MD schools. On the other hand, DO schools are known to have superior antomy courses and better clinical training during the first two years.

So, other than the stuff i just mentioned, and of course OMM, there isn't much of a difference in the pre-clinical years, but the clinical years are a differnet story. Most DO schools do not have a strong affliation with a teaching hospital, so according to the physcians i have spoken to, both MDs and DOs, the clinical training of some DO graduates can be "questionable." But is this info true? Who knows, maybe someone has a emprical study on this subject.
 
At any rate, from pretty much every physician i have spoken to, MDs recieve a better basic science training, so courses like biochem and pathology, are better at most MD schools. On the other hand, DO schools are known to have superior antomy courses and better clinical training during the first two years.

Hmm, that sounds iffy to me. Both statements do.

Why does that not sound right? Because the pre-clinical years are so standardized that there just isn't that much of a difference among schools. There can't be if they want their students to pass the boards. Year one biochemistry is year one biochemistry, it's the same chunk of material everywhere. And since PhD lecturers are the norm for the pre-clinical sciences, you're going to find them at both MD & DO schools. Yes, top tier MD schools will attract fancy-schmancy researchers, but there's not guarantee those guys can teach really well. The quality of professors can really run the gamut, everywhere.
 
At any rate, from pretty much every physician i have spoken to, MDs recieve a better basic science training, so courses like biochem and pathology, are better at most MD schools. On the other hand, DO schools are known to have superior antomy courses and better clinical training during the first two years.

--This (perhaps) myth about DO = better anatomy probably comes from more time spent learning it in OMM. Dunno if that means improved retention.

--Better clinical training in MS I/II? I think this has a lot to do with the school, and I really don't see how it could be generalized to degree differences.

--"Better" basic science courses: This is an often-made assumption based on the generalization that MD = Research = Good PhDs teaching. This is arguable as to whether it actually means that the curriculum/teaching is better at an MD school. PhDs at DO schools can stay up to date with the literature, too, ya know.
 
At any rate, from pretty much every physician i have spoken to, MDs recieve a better basic science training, so courses like biochem and pathology, are better at most MD schools. On the other hand, DO schools are known to have superior antomy courses and better clinical training during the first two years.

Oh no you didant.

Are you really going to generalize and speak for all 130 MD schools and all 28 DO schools?

Are you really going to claim that the physicians you have spoken to have access to recent, privileged information that can credibly devalue the curricula at schools they've never visited and probably have never heard of? Are these physicians on med school faculty, or responsible for accreditation of medical schools?

Do you have an explanation for the many DO students who get competitive USMLE scores and match ACGME residencies, with their apparently substandard educations?

Dr. Goljan's students are coming to kick your ass. (Let me know where to meet up with y'all.)

p.s. I before E except after C.
 
From these msg boards and the physicians i have spoken to, I have not heard anything different, so it seems like common knowledge. But, yea, it could be a sterotype and a complete falsehood.
 
From these msg boards and the physicians i have spoken to, I have not heard anything different, so it seems like common knowledge. But, yea, it could be a sterotype and a complete falsehood.

You're such a dear to state it as fact. Big kisses.
 
Well, the last line in my orginal post was : "But is this info true? Who knows, maybe someone has a emprical study on this subject."

maybe i should have started with that...
 
Dr. Midlife is so cool. Wish he would join us in the lounge sometimes but he probably can't stand us scumbags. 😀
 
Wow, I can't believe how quick I got so many replies. The reeason I am asking about the diff is I am applying to the med school at my university which is very competitive and very research oriented. As a backup there is a DO school in Bradenton that I have heard good things about. Their entrance reqs are MUCH lower and it seems I would not have much trouble getting in.

Everyone keeps saying how similar the two schools are so if I get into a DO school and don't get any takers at med school, why the hell would I think twice about going to the DO school? Especially since I am turning 30 soon and want to get the show on the road here.

Again sorry if this stuff is repetitive from other threads. Much of this info is new to me. The school whe I am doing my undergrad has a crappy exchange of info among the pre med/dental/DO students
 
INDIGOSOLAR, just a piece of advice. DO school = MED school. Just so you don't ruffle some feathers. Carry on. 😀

Oh, and don't be certain you'll gain admission to any school, regardless of the admissions averages. Many around here can attest to the crapshoot that is admissions.
 

Any relation to Panda Bear? 🙂
 
The thoughts I had were: How are DOs able to squeeze OMM into the curriculum that is the same length as MD? Are classes just longer each day? Those 200 hours of OMM need to come from somewhere. 🙂
 
I am not certain of anything and never said I was. The question is hypothetical. Of course I do not mean to offend anyone but on the other hand I have many questions. I am not sure what I posted that would cause feather ruffling.

Let me try this one. I am interested in a pathology residency. Is there anyone that has any info about entrance, competivess, etc..

thanks
 
I really wouldn't worry about the basic science curricuum, because the bottom line is that you are going to learn to be a doctor by working in the clinics. My colleagues and I are a couple of months into our rotations at an MD school, and honestly, we are all clueless when it comes to actually practicing medicine after the first 2 years. Bottom line is that there is a huge difference between clinical medicine and basic science, so I wouldn't too much about the first 2 years because it has VERY little influence on how good of a doctor you will become.
 
To my knowledge, there are no AOA-approved pathology programs, so you will have to go the ACGME route. Is it do able as a DO, yea. And if you look at most DO schools, a few students (1 to 3 from what i see) go into pathology each year, which is similar to MD schools. Furthermore, apparently the pathology market is saturated, i.e. there are too many pathologist, so expect to do a fellowship or two or three to be competitive when looking for a job.
 
The thoughts I had were: How are DOs able to squeeze OMM into the curriculum that is the same length as MD? Are classes just longer each day? Those 200 hours of OMM need to come from somewhere. 🙂


I don't know how any other schools do it, but with nova we normally start at 8, On Monday's we pretty much do testing all day so depending on if I have a two part test (lecture and lab) I'm either out at 11 or 3. On Tuesdays we do class in the morning and labs in the afternoons so I'm out at 3. Wednesdays are till 5 (Or, in the case of today...till 8 freakin thirty UGH stupid anatomy), Thursdays I'm there till 3 (though some students are in labs till 5). And Fridays, oh glorious Fridays, I'm out at noon. However, I have this nifty little thing called IGC where I get to go do active shadowing for the afternoon.

I'm not sure where the extra time in the cirriculum comes from. I know a lot of friends of mine who go to other medical schools (particularly the MD ones) are out earlier then I am every day (save friday anyway). So that might have something to do with it. Also. We only have 2 hours scheduled in the anatomy lab per week. Now, I say SCHEDULED...we all spend A LOT more then that in there.

I can't even tell you how much OPP lab his helping me with anatomy. Eventhough we've only done bony landmarks, I feel like I have SOME sense of orientation when I'm looking at the bodies in lab...this does not help when (like today) the person i was working with picked up a leg and said "OK GO!" ... so much for orientation.

Speaking of anatomy. Holy crap. anatomy. We have our first test on monday. it covers Upper limb, Back and lower limb (which is A LOT of material for one test). Mildly terrified.

A lot of my friends chose to go MD, and we talk pretty frequently. The cirriculum really is pretty much the same. It's just that we get OMM and they don't . Infact, in studying for my biochem test a friend of mine whose an M1 at an MD school and I were quizzing eachother because we were having a test on the same material on the same day.

I'm just a lowly M1, so I really can't offer much more then that. But I hope that was somewhat along the lines of what you're lookign for.


Also (just a word of caution) you may THINK you wanna be a pathologist now, but you might find something else that strikes your fancy...Oddly, the only thing I *do* know for sure is that I DON'T wanna be a pathologist! heh. 🙂
 
First of all, the material taught during your first two years of medical school, the pre-clinical years, is pretty consistant across all US medical schools and cover generally the same basic science subjects. There are indeed variances in how the material is presented/taught, differences in focus, and in the time allotted to each basic science, or subject. In general, these differences are related to individual school preference, their mission, and adopted curriculum style, such as traditional-based, systems-based, case-based/PBL, or some hybrid, etc. Beyond these school-based variances, the major difference between the pre-clinical curriculum at an osteopathic medical school (OMS) and an allopathic (AMS) one is that at an OMS, you are required to learn OMM, which generally includes related lab and lecture material. Otherwise, you won't be able to tell the difference between the two. While it hasn't ever been officially expressed to me (nor have I seen any data, comparative or otherwise), from what I have gathered, there may be some fewer hours spent on some basic science subjects here and there, but I doubt that this is exclusive to the osteopathic program(s) I am familiar with. I'll leave you to make any reasonable connections you want about that, perhaps relative to the inclusion of OMM.

I think it's also fair to state that OMS' are going to bias their curricula and related elements toward the COMLEX, while AMS' are going to bias theirs toward the USMLE. As a result of that and speaking rather generally there may be differential trends in emphasis across each group, along with the inclusion of OMM in the OMS' curricula and variations due to individual school preference. Yet, overall, I'd say that the curricula across all US medical schools, osteopathic and allopathic, are significantly more similar than different. Indeed, you would be challenged to observe any differences, other than the obvious inclusion of OMM. If we were to divide the two groups out by commonalities among each group and differences between the two, you'd likely see that the differences between the two are not significant enough to demonstrate a general professional impact. That is to say, both work side by side during rotations, residencies (many osteopathic medical students opt to do allopathic residencies), fellowships, and as attending physicians without much, if any, observable difference relative to their designation. Basically, the two are professionally-equivalent and practice to the same standard of care, which in itself expresses the equivalency of their training. Also, each year, many osteopathic medical students prepare for and take the USMLE, in addition to the COMLEX, and some even out-perform their allopathic counterparts.

The point is that you'll get a solid pre-clinical education anywhere you go for medical school in the US. Perhaps more than ever, medical school is medical school, whether it is an OMS or AMS. Anywhere you go, you'll have adequate preparation. It's up to you to choose an individual variant that appeals to your goals and personal style. I hope this helps.
 
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A lot of my friends chose to go MD, and we talk pretty frequently. The cirriculum really is pretty much the same. It's just that we get OMM and they don't . Infact, in studying for my biochem test a friend of mine whose an M1 at an MD school and I were quizzing eachother because we were having a test on the same material on the same day.

And this is why using other med schools' websites for studying works so well: the curriculum is the same! Which is also why books like BRS and Lippincott's are so popular, because they teach to a...wait for it.....standardized curriculum! Fancy that.

But OP, if you just wanna be a doctor, you have the right philosophy. OMM is definitely the major difference, class wise, at DO schools. Every school out there-MD and DO-has a few things for their students that not everybody does, but I doubt any of those lectures/clerkships/whatever have a huge impact.
 
No degree will have superiority over another for the preclinical years or years to follow, imo. But, for the first part of that sentence... Both MD and DO schools have the "opposite" faculty teaching at their schools so it goes to show its pretty standardized.
 
And this is why using other med schools' websites for studying works so well: the curriculum is the same! Which is also why books like BRS and Lippincott's are so popular, because they teach to a...wait for it.....standardized curriculum! Fancy that.

In general, you are right. However, I'd much rather say equivalent rather than the same. There may be some more subtle differences in emphasis and time spent with each basic science may be different, but I am hesistant to generalize across the groups and I doubt that it is consequential down the road, anyway.

But OP, if you just wanna be a doctor, you have the right philosophy. OMM is definitely the major difference, class wise, at DO schools. Every school out there-MD and DO-has a few things for their students that not everybody does, but I doubt any of those lectures/clerkships/whatever have a huge impact.

Well, it's more accurate for me to say that I haven't noticed or felt any difference between my education and the education that my allopathic counterparts are receiving, with the exception of OMM. One major point of difference is that most osteopathic medical schools don't have an attached academic hospital and thus don't have in-house rotations at such a site. This is something to consider if you'd rather just stay where you are, rather than, say, go to school in one state, then do your 3rd year rotations in another state, and then be moving around during your fourth year for your electives.
 
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No degree will have superiority over another for the preclinical years or years to follow, imo. But, for the first part of that sentence... Both MD and DO schools have the "opposite" faculty teaching at their schools so it goes to show its pretty standardized.

I agree with both statements. Also, some faculty also teach the exact same thing at both types of schools. That is to say, they are instructors at both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools.

Any differences, with the exception of OMM, between groups, with respect to basic science education, are not readily palpable, in my opinion. Medical school is medical school.
 
Please discount cliquesh's statements.

At any rate, from pretty much every physician i have spoken to, MDs recieve a better basic science training, so courses like biochem and pathology, are better at most MD schools. On the other hand, DO schools are known to have superior antomy courses and better clinical training during the first two years.

nothing against him, it's just not true. (as stated by numerous people on this thread). There are primary sources and there are secondary sources. I'm a primary, he's a secondary.

There is no difference in curriculum of basic medical school curriculum. Osteopathic physicians receive OMM as was probably stated above numerous times. As a consequence to that we are inherently better at palpation/manipulation/anatomy... Hell I receive about an extra 3.5hrs per week extra in OMM which is basically anatomy review for the most part... These are generalization, which if you want more information I Will be more then happy to explain or further direct.

On another note. Many DOs are overly defensive, so if you've seen any of that from the thread we just tend to be that way because every premed tends to question us.

If you are competitive I would encourage you to apply to PCOM-Georgia... LECOM is a good school, but PCOM has a much better history, reputation, alumni, and basically opportunity... Again nothing against LECOM, but PCOM is by far one of the best osteopathic schools in the country.


While it hasn't ever been officially expressed to me (nor have I seen any data, comparative or otherwise), from what I have gathered, there may be some fewer hours spent on some basic science subjects here and there, but I doubt that this is exclusive to the osteopathic program(s) I am familiar with.

I have never heard anything of that nature. Please provide information or resources before you state something like that... Without any source for that please discredit his comment.


If you are strongly interested in research i'd say go MD.
If you are slightly interested in research i'd say MD or checkout PCOM-GA
If you just want to become a physician, either one is the same. Look in your insurance provider book and see how many DOs are there.
 
1. That is ******ed. You all know what post I'm talking about, so I'm not going to go back and find it, because I'm watching ****ing ackland anatomy videos and drooling on pages about mesoderm and ****.

2. Didn't one or two people from Bradenton match Path at UT-Southwestern this past year? UT-Southwestern is a powerhouse MD school, in the richest public school system in the world, and training doesn't get better than Parkland Hospital.

3. **** embryology, and the muscles of the anterior forearm.

The anterior forearm wouldn't be so bad if my classmates and I weren't such savage butchers. Its like trying to learn the anatomy of a cow by buying a pound of hamburger at whole foods.
 
The anterior forearm wouldn't be so bad if my classmates and I weren't such savage butchers. Its like trying to learn the anatomy of a cow by buying a pound of hamburger at whole foods.

:laugh: Oh yeah, I remember these days. Most everyone starts out that way. You'll get better with time, though. Sadly, anatomy lab has come to an end for me, yet, it is now that I feel most competently skilled to learn it.
 
You guys rock, I can't believe how much advice I've gotten so far.

As for the earlier post about the pathology field being oversaturated, I was not aware of that. In fact i thought it was one that was easier fields to get into(i.e. get a residency, job, etc.) AS you said I may change my mind during med school. I've been so damn busy doing the pre reqs and studying for the MCAT I have not had the time to REALLY weigh the pros and cons of all the specialties.

in regards to this post
"If you are competitive I would encourage you to apply to PCOM-Georgia... LECOM is a good school, but PCOM has a much better history, reputation, alumni, and basically opportunity... Again nothing against LECOM, but PCOM is by far one of the best osteopathic schools in the country."

I appreciate the advice . This is the advice I was looking for when I was comparing LECOM to the med school I was applying to. I was comparing the two schools and not DO schools vs other schools.

The reason I was thinking LECOM is it is so close to where I live. It is really important for me that I don't have to relocate out of Florida. I know some people post "if you are really dedicated you will go where ever,,,, blah blah" but it's important for me to be close to my family.



Don't flame this, but I definately think some people are WAY too easily insulted about being pre DO or DO students. Hell I'd be proud to be accepted into a DO school. Sure the hell beats plugging away at pre reqs and studying for the MCAT. Again thanks for the advice, keep it coming!!
 
nothing against him, it's just not true. (as stated by numerous people on this thread). There are primary sources and there are secondary sources. I'm a primary, he's a secondary.

ROFL. Dann I am declaring you an SDN friend (you'll receive your half of the bff necklace in the mail soon). :laugh:
 
The reason I was thinking LECOM is it is so close to where I live. It is really important for me that I don't have to relocate out of Florida. I know some people post "if you are really dedicated you will go where ever,,,, blah blah" but it's important for me to be close to my family.

I totally get that! Just for the record: NSU is kinda awesome 🙂
 
--This (perhaps) myth about DO = better anatomy probably comes from more time spent learning it in OMM. Dunno if that means improved retention.

Well, I'm not prepared to say that I know anatomy better than my allopathic counterpart as a result of the amount of OMM training I am engaging in at this point in time. I wouldn't even say that I'm that good with OMT. Sure, there are certain anatomical points that are repeated time and again in OMT lab, which I do feel very familiar with, but I wouldn't go as far as to claim I'm better at anatomy as a whole. Honestly, I think I'm pretty good at anatomy because I spent a lot of my waking time in the anatomy lab learning the stuff, not because of OMT lab, although I'm sure there is a minor contribution from that.
 
I wish I had spent more time in the anatomy lab for this exam. For not doing this, I am an *******.

It really is helpful. I will not make that mistake again.
 
I wish I had spent more time in the anatomy lab for this exam. For not doing this, I am an *******.

It really is helpful. I will not make that mistake again.

Yeah, that is really one of the keys to success in anatomy. Make yourself at home in the lab... Spend a lot of time there, identifying structures in different bodies and viewing the variations, etc. Teach it to others. Do it until you are just completely sick of being there and can't look at another body... Then know you are ready (or at least as prepared as you are going to be).
 
in regards to this post
"If you are competitive I would encourage you to apply to PCOM-Georgia... LECOM is a good school, but PCOM has a much better history, reputation, alumni, and basically opportunity... Again nothing against LECOM, but PCOM is by far one of the best osteopathic schools in the country."

I appreciate the advice . This is the advice I was looking for when I was comparing LECOM to the med school I was applying to. I was comparing the two schools and not DO schools vs other schools.

The reason I was thinking LECOM is it is so close to where I live. It is really important for me that I don't have to relocate out of Florida. I know some people post "if you are really dedicated you will go where ever,,,, blah blah" but it's important for me to be close to my family.

I'm not sure about where PCOM is testing out at, but don't discount LECOM-B. The classes of '09 and '08 ranked the school 2nd overall in COMLEX scores and they are anticipating the class of '10 scores to be first when they get this years rankings.
 
You guys rock, I can't believe how much advice I've gotten so far.

As for the earlier post about the pathology field being oversaturated, I was not aware of that. In fact i thought it was one that was easier fields to get into(i.e. get a residency, job, etc.) AS you said I may change my mind during med school. I've been so damn busy doing the pre reqs and studying for the MCAT I have not had the time to REALLY weigh the pros and cons of all the specialties.

in regards to this post
"If you are competitive I would encourage you to apply to PCOM-Georgia... LECOM is a good school, but PCOM has a much better history, reputation, alumni, and basically opportunity... Again nothing against LECOM, but PCOM is by far one of the best osteopathic schools in the country."

I appreciate the advice . This is the advice I was looking for when I was comparing LECOM to the med school I was applying to. I was comparing the two schools and not DO schools vs other schools.

The reason I was thinking LECOM is it is so close to where I live. It is really important for me that I don't have to relocate out of Florida. I know some people post "if you are really dedicated you will go where ever,,,, blah blah" but it's important for me to be close to my family.



Don't flame this, but I definately think some people are WAY too easily insulted about being pre DO or DO students. Hell I'd be proud to be accepted into a DO school. Sure the hell beats plugging away at pre reqs and studying for the MCAT. Again thanks for the advice, keep it coming!!


while the material taught at MD and DO schools is basically the same the first two years.. the method that they are taught can be very different- especially at LECOM. LECOM Bradenton is all PBL (problem based learning), so you will not be sitting in lecture everyday and learning the material that way, but will be pretty much teaching it to yourself as you learn through different clinical situations. Some people love this way of teaching, some people hate it. I personally knew I would not be motivated enough to teach myself everything, I like having the structure of lecture. But that's me. Just be aware of this significant difference when looking into LECOM.

And I'll put in my plug for LMU-DCOM. 😉 It really is an amazing school. And TN is beautiful 😀
 
it's encouraging to hear the good things about LECOM. Do any of you happen to know when the next starting class is and when the app deadline is? I perused their web site but could not find this info.

As for the prob based learning comment about LECOM, after talking a crap load of classes in the traditional lecture based format I have started taking classes with more in class participation as part of my honors college reqs. I have to say I like these much more.
 
it's encouraging to hear the good things about LECOM. Do any of you happen to know when the next starting class is and when the app deadline is? I perused their web site but could not find this info.

As for the prob based learning comment about LECOM, after talking a crap load of classes in the traditional lecture based format I have started taking classes with more in class participation as part of my honors college reqs. I have to say I like these much more.


Careful there. There's a BIG step between "classes with more class participation" and PBL. I sat in on a PBL session at LECOM-B. I wouldn't classify it as "interactive". Rather, it was the students doing it all themselves. Make sure you check it out very carefully and make sure that's a fit for you. If you want class participation seek out a school with small class size and high faculty involvement. If you want to teach yoruself based on cases, look into PBL.
 
Problem Based Learning is student driven. That's how we learn. Once Anatomy is over we have our PBL meetings 3 times a week for 2 hours each day (MWF). All of the students are broken up into groups of 8 (sometimes 9) and have one facilitator. The facilitator's role is not to teach or to raise questions or to talk for that matter; their job is to simply hand out papers related to the case at hand. At the beginning of PBL you start with a case, a mock patient with some chief complaint. From there you begin to go through a mock history and physical examination, having the results of these passed out as a sheet of paper. It is YOUR job to understand the terms on the papers and how the relate to particular pathologies.

At the end of the 2 hour block, "learning issues" are chosen that would be particularly important to the case at hand. For example, if your patient presented with heart arrhythmia, some possible learning issues that night would be to read the Heart Physiology chapters to see how the heart works, the Heart anatomy pages to see what the heart looks like, and possibly the Neuroanatomy of how the heart receives its innervation. After that, it would be up to you to decide what other information would be important to learn in case new material shows up in class--maybe read some other physiology to learn about blood pressure, read about some different tests that you could run as a group to help diagnose the patient, or even read about some different pathologies of the Heart.

Basically, PBL is all about what YOU do to make the information important. The only science course we get lectured on is Gross Anatomy (which is coupled with Histology). Other than that, the learning is all student driven. It takes a lot to stay focused and can be rather intimidating, but it definitely works. I promise you.

As for the application cycle for the 2013 class, it has already begun. Go to AACOMAS and get your Primary in ASAP. I will say, however, that you should not think that just because this is LECOM-B that it is going to be easier to do well in. It still is medical school and Anatomy is still Anatomy. On top of that, you will have weekly PBL classes during Anatomy (only once while you are in Anatomy) for 10 weeks. You will be required to work hard. I know you didn't mean to offend anyone with your statement, but I am just letting you know: lower requirements does not insinuate easier curriculum.

If you have more questions about LECOM-B, they might be better suited for the LECOM-B page. Good luck in your interview/application process.
 
WOW! For those of you with the upper extremity AND back on the first test (with embryo), when did you start? My first anatomy exam is on monday, and it has back, spinal column, spinal nerves, and early/musculoskeletal embryo on it.

OP, be careful about using the term "back up" because it gets misconstrued around these parts.

To the question... I found out about Osteopathic medical schools when I was working in the OR of a big state allopathic med school on the west coast. There was a resident in anesthesia from KCOM, the school I currently attend, who sold me on the osteopathic route. She was consistently ranked in the top of her residency class (by the Attendings, I asked). The point is that if you are dedicated and have a strong work ethic, any school will get you to where you want to be. And OMM lab is a lot of fun.
 
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WOW! For those of you with the upper extremity AND back on the first test (with embryo), when did you start? My first anatomy exam is on monday, and it has back, spinal column, spinal nerves, and early/musculoskeletal embryo on it.


Upper Extremity, Back, AND lower extremity (this includes the spinal column).

We started August 11th. I kinda wanna curl up in a ball and cry.
 
Just had the first histo exam this morning. Anatomy is monday. We started aug. 14, but the first anatomy lecture wasn't until the 26th. How many quarters does anatomy last at your school?
 
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The anterior forearm wouldn't be so bad if my classmates and I weren't such savage butchers. Its like trying to learn the anatomy of a cow by buying a pound of hamburger at whole foods.

Dude, I feel for you. What I liked about prosection so much was that the professors did a lot of the delicate stuff on some cadavers and they were pretty good at it. You could tell a big difference between them and the ones where the students had been hacking away.
 
I haven't really read through this thread but the topic caught my eye. I'm a student at an MD school and I studied for boards with a couple of good friends who are in my position at what's supposed to be a fantastic DO school (I don't know anything about the Harvards vs the Podunks of the osteopathic world unfortunately) in a different city. It seemed to me like they received a pretty good preclinical education. However, I have to say that they helped me refresh my anatomy (which I had intentionally forgotten), because their osteopathic class really emphasized those principles, dermatomes, muscle functions, etc. and they also had to study for that osteopathic class for their boards. Nevertheless, it was the opposite experience with biochemistry and a lot of the molecular biology stuff. They freely admitted that their education in biochemistry was merely superficial and when I looked through their syllabus and notes, it was pretty clear to me that they hadn't covered a LOT of the stuff that was on the USMLE. They told me this was kind of endemic to the osteopathic schools that they knew about. The other thing is faculty differences. For example, I had lectures and small-group sessions from clinical faculty wherever possible, who were all experts in their field... or PhD's for basic sciences with big NIH grants who research the molecular pathway they're lecturing about. Now, is this difference really pertinent when it comes to boards? Not really, since boards basically assess a core minimum set of knowledge that doctors should possess. No matter where you go, you're going to have to do a lot of independent learning, and this is standardized everywhere. However, I definitely felt enriched by having a wide variety of brilliant lecturers and cutting-edge topics. The pricetag for this was the mantra "we don't teach to the boards, we teach you what we feel will make you a good physician"" ==> a lot of times, we got "over and above" what was needed for boards, but it was interesting and I learned a lot. Plus the people we had "TA''ing" our anatomy labs + anatomic radiology classes were badass oldschool retired plastic surgeons + radiologists still mentally re-living their glory days in the 1970's.

The other thing we talked about was preclinical (and clinical) experiences, and how they felt disadvantaged that they did not have an attached teaching hospital. In my first two years, there was a lot of curriculum by sending us over to the teaching hospitals and having us perform exams, talk to specialists, etc. In terms of year 3+4, they told me they struggled to get rotations sometimes, and felt like they didn't get the classic "general hospital" experience, sometimes having to IM core rotations at rural hospitals with no residents or interns (who you're usually on call with and learn the most from... the attending goes home, generally). This is obviously just anecdote, but I'm just putting it out there. Someone's going to say "there are MD schools which don't have blah blah too", and that's true, but they are the exception among 120 schools, rather than the rule. I think there might be a few DO schools with a teaching hospital as well. I know I have largely sounded like an infomercial, but I just want to stress the point that there are a lot of factors premeds overlook or overemphasize. Premeds constantly ignore MS3-4 clinical curriculum: are there organized lectures for internal medicine, are the preceptors paid (some osteopathic schools do not pay for this and rely on 'donated' preception), what are the clinical sites like, how diverse is the patient population, how are the residents, etc. etc. Big tv monitors, plush furniture, and luxe anatomy labs don't make for a meaningfully better med school experience. In my mind, it's about the teaching and clinical experiences, over and above what any joe anywhere can read in Moore, Robbins, or Harrison's.
 
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