Do D.O. Schools heavily prefer blacks/latinos like M.D. Schools do?

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SSVicious said:
I am not reaching. What I'm saying is, even small statistics matter. Here's another analogy. 5 black men are discriminated against. 95 are not. Do you want to do anything to stop the discrimination against those 5 black men, or should we all stop whining because it's ONLY five black men who are being discriminated against?

And people should care why someone got in. I can't believe you are making that argument. Nepotism should not get someone into medical school. The ONLY thing that should get someone into medical school is proving that you have more merit than another guy. There aren't enough spots for everyone, it's called a COMPETITION. And frankly, being a URM or socioeconomically disadvantaged person is an intangible.

You just assume that they were hurt by those statuses, but who really knows. But you can see from research experience, GPA, MCAT, volunteering, etc, that someone is more likely worthy. And I say more likely because we are back to statistics. Ad coms need to make their best educated guess as to who is a good fit for a medical school. That requires using tangible items to rank people.

And don't tell me to stop my "bitching and moaning", why the hell are you so rude? No one is trying to shut you up for having a different opinion. If you don't want disagreement with YOUR opinion, don't give YOUR opinion.

I can't believe I'm the big bad guy here for wanting merit-based admissions.
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Again the only people who care about URM status are pre-meds. You don't hear talk like this going on in Allo or Osteo forums. Get your head out of your ass and see that 60 years ago Jim Crow laws and the like were systematic forms of racism that the effects of still ripple to this day. You still negated to mention board scores and the like that are merit based that are used to filter out even more people. You aren't a bad guy. Just ignorant to the battles that minorities face on a daily basis.

You say that socio-economic status shouldn't matter. Well how the hell can you study if you are worried about being evicted, having food on the table, or having the materials to study? We all know college isn't cheap, to imply that a poor kid who somehow manages a 3.4 is not as good as a rich person who cakewalks with a 3.9 thanks to tutors and I don't know books is a ridiculous implication.
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guydudcl371 said:
Of course not...just not surprised...these posts are incredibly predictable...take a breather...
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Sigh, it's not surprising to see a few quazi-trolls on SDN baiting out members into a brawl.
 
FutureDr214 said:
Again the only people who care about URM status are pre-meds. You don't hear talk like this going on in Allo or Osteo forums. Get your head out of your ass and see that 60 years ago Jim Crow laws and the like were systematic forms of racism that the effects of still ripple to this day. You still negated to mention board scores and the like that are merit based that are used to filter out even more people. You aren't a bad guy. Just ignorant to the battles that minorities face on a daily basis.

You say that socio-economic status shouldn't matter. Well how the hell can you study if you are worried about being evicted, having food on the table, or having the materials to study? We all know college isn't cheap, to imply that a poor kid who somehow manages a 3.4 is not as good as a rich person who cakewalks with a 3.9 thanks to tutors and I don't know books is a ridiculous implication.
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Don't give me any BS about poor kids having to worry about money and thus getting a 3.4.

There are so many damn scholarships available for poor people and minorities that they don't have any sob stories. They may have been poor in high school and went to a crappy high school, but they got AA to get into college and they got AA to get scholarships to pay for said college.

The real losers are middle class people like me. Not rich enough to pay for college but not poor enough to get college paid for.

So no, I don't give a damn about someone's socioeconomic circumstances. There are dumb rich kids and there are dumb poor kids. And there are smart rich kids and smart poor kids. But only smart middle class kids have to pay for their own college tuition.

And I'm sick and damn tired of people saying that anti-AA is being racist. Where is the racism in this thread? Some people are smoking too much of the liberalism reefer. EVERYTHING is racist, oh my God! Those white people! IQ tests are racists, bosses at jobs are racists, ad coms are racist, college admissions are racist, GPAs are racist, and so on ad nauseum.
 
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FutureDr214 said:
Get your head out of your ass and see that 60 years ago Jim Crow laws and the like were systematic forms of racism that the effects of still ripple to this day.
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Besides you again being rude (which is unjustified, I have been respectful of you), I don't see how Jim Crow laws still affect people any more.

There may be small lasting effects, but let's look at Asians. They were discriminated against very heavily. They are doing fine now. Better than whites in fact. Everyone always just forgets about the Asians being minorities, because it doesn't fit with the liberal viewpoint that racism and poverty are the reasons minorities do poorly. Well, people discriminated against Asians and they were poor. Then they worked hard and now they do as well as whites.

So why can't other minorities do well? Maybe because when everything is handed to them there is no incentive to do well on their own.

And FutureDr, I'd appreciate it if you stopped being rude and crude. I am respectful of your opinion and we are simply having a debate. I may dislike your opinions, but I do not dislike you.
 
SSVicious said:
Don't give me any BS about poor kids having to worry about money and thus getting a 3.4.

There are so many damn scholarships available for poor people and minorities that they don't have any sob stories. They may have been poor in high school and went to a crappy high school, but they got AA to get into college and they got AA to get scholarships to pay for said college.

The real losers are middle class people like me. Not rich enough to pay for college but not poor enough to get college paid for.

So no, I don't give a damn about someone's socioeconomic circumstances. There are dumb rich kids and there are dumb poor kids. And there are smart rich kids and smart poor kids. But only smart middle class kids have to pay for their own college tuition.

And I'm sick and damn tired of people saying that anti-AA is being racist. Where is the racism in this thread? Some people are smoking too much of the liberalism reefer. EVERYTHING is racist, oh my God! Those white people! IQ tests are racists, bosses at jobs are racists, ad coms are racist, college admissions are racist, GPAs are racist, and so on ad nauseum.
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Now I see the reason for your posts. You are just pissed that you weren't smart enough or didn't have a good enough GPA to warrant a scholarship. You have had opportunities and you didn't take advantage of those opportunities. Can't blame no one but yourself for that. But lots of kids grow up in the ghetto wiht crappy high schools where the teachers could care less if you understand or not. These same kids go home to a pantry with no food and a fridge that only contains baking soda. These kids try to homework and their parents mind you could also care less if the kid graduates or not. "You need to become a truck driver" or "You need to apply for welfare" are the forms of support that are spoken. So spare me your bitterstory about how you are disadvantaged and try to see things from another perspective.

PS: I'm not being rude. Just harsh. Harsh truths are needed especially on the web to solidify understanding.
 
Close your ears and eyes and your mind will fabricate reality to compensate. This thread has truly degenerated into nothing but troll-talk and half-truths. Mods, you can go ahead and close this thread.
 
FutureDr214 said:
Now I see the reason for your posts. You are just pissed that you weren't smart enough or didn't have a good enough GPA to warrant a scholarship. You have had opportunities and you didn't take advantage of those opportunities. Can't blame no one but yourself for that. But lots of kids grow up in the ghetto wiht crappy high schools where the teachers could care less if you understand or not. These same kids go home to a pantry with no food and a fridge that only contains baking soda. These kids try to homework and their parents mind you could also care less if the kid graduates or not. "You need to become a truck driver" or "You need to apply for welfare" are the forms of support that are spoken. So spare me your bitterstory about how you are disadvantaged and try to see things from another perspective.
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Yup, this basically sums up things into a nice hand basket.
 
FutureDr214 said:
Now I see the reason for your posts. You are just pissed that you weren't smart enough or didn't have a good enough GPA to warrant a scholarship. You have had opportunities and you didn't take advantage of those opportunities. Can't blame no one but yourself for that. But lots of kids grow up in the ghetto wiht crappy high schools where the teachers could care less if you understand or not. These same kids go home to a pantry with no food and a fridge that only contains baking soda. These kids try to homework and their parents mind you could also care less if the kid graduates or not. "You need to become a truck driver" or "You need to apply for welfare" are the forms of support that are spoken. So spare me your bitterstory about how you are disadvantaged and try to see things from another perspective.
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Actually that's incorrect. I had 90th percentile SAT scores and a 3.98 GPA. I got a lot of scholarships.

What I did not like was that I did so well in high school and studied hard for the SAT and got the highest scholarship that my school gives out to non-minorities ($3500/yr). I got other scholarships, so it wasn't terribly bad. But a black girl from my high school with much lower SAT scores, GPA, and less extracurriculars, AND HER PARENTS MADE MORE MONEY THAN MINE got a $12,500/yr scholarship. Because my school gives our larger scholarships to minorities, regardless of merit.

You can't possibly tell me that is right. AA is supposed to take into account socioeconomics, but in practice being black or hispanic is enough, money be damned.

I had to go out and get scholarships from all over the place and put in REAL effort to get money.

You are pompous and arrogant. If you are like this off the internet I doubt you have any friends, except for other closed-minded individuals.

But I'm pretty sure you're only like this on the internet, keyboard jockey. Big talk behind the computer screen.
 
SSVicious said:
Actually that's incorrect. I had 90th percentile SAT scores and a 3.98 GPA. I got a lot of scholarships.

What I did not like was that I did so well in high school and studied hard for the SAT and got the highest scholarship that my school gives out to non-minorities ($3500/yr). I got other scholarships, so it wasn't terribly bad. But a black girl from my high school with much lower SAT scores, GPA, and less extracurriculars, AND HER PARENTS MADE MORE MONEY THAN MINE got a $12,500/yr scholarship. Because my school gives our larger scholarships to minorities, regardless of merit.

You can't possibly tell me that is right. AA is supposed to take into account socioeconomics, but in practice being black or hispanic is enough, money be damned.

I had to go out and get scholarships from all over the place and put in REAL effort to get money.

You are pompous and arrogant. If you are like this off the internet I doubt you have any friends, except for other closed-minded individuals.

But I'm pretty sure you're only like this on the internet, keyboard jockey. Big talk behind the computer screen.
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Ha ha right. I'm pompous and arrogant for thinking that the less fortunate deserve a chance. Damn. You got me. I have bee foiled...sarcasm off.

The situation above is different because guess what...no matter how much her parents make they are still black. They are still called the n word and are profiled. They are still followed in retail stores and people still clutch their bags and purses tighter when they walk by. Get over yourself and stop crying about being a white person in a country that has always favored the white race.

BTW I don't have to talk big. I'm a 6'1 200 lbs 10 % bodyfat black guy. I can more than back up what I say.
 
Any way, I'm done with this thread.

I have given my opinion.

And someone said that the initials of my name were for the Nazi SS. I was called a damn Nazi.

I've been called racist throughout this thread.

I've been told that no one wants to hear my "sob story" and it was my own fault.

Well, debate has been shut down by name calling. Simply because I decided to disagree with AA and it's implementation. Because I want merit to mean something. Even though I clearly stated on multiple occasions that race doesn't matter to me, I just want the best doctors. I guess that makes me a Nazi?

You promote diversity in medical school, but you don't want diversity if it means difference from your opinion.

Grow up, people. But hey, maybe it makes you happy in your own head to just call people Nazis and racists if you don't like their opinions on race. Keep living the delusion, fellas.
 
FutureDr214 said:
Ha ha right. I'm pompous and arrogant for thinking that the less fortunate deserve a chance. Damn. You got me. I have bee foiled...sarcasm off.

The situation above is different because guess what...no matter how much her parents make they are still black. They are still called the n word and are profiled. They are still followed in retail stores and people still clutch their bags and purses tighter when they walk by. Get over yourself and stop crying about being a white person in a country that has always favored the white race.

BTW I don't have to talk big. I'm a 6'1 200 lbs 10 % bodyfat black guy. I can more than back up what I say.
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Do you know why they are followed around in retail stores and people clutch their bags tighter?

Because statistically black people mug people more than other races. Just go to government statistics about crime.

But oh, the government is racist too, right?

Racism is always the response if blacks and hispanics don't get what they want.

You just don't like white people. You'd rather your own race ran things. I just want the best people to run things, regardless of race.

Now, good bye, poor discriminated against black man. Your life is so damn hard, boo hoo.
 
Guess what guys? Life isn't fair, so deal with it. AA isn't perfect but it is the best thing they could come up with to be fair. There are millions of people with millions of different views/opinions/interests and it is impossible to please every single one of them, so someone is gonna get the short-end of the stick. Don't worry about how other people are gonna get into school, just take care of yourself. We all know what the averages for accepted students are, so we should shooting to get above average gpa/mcat/ec's, nothing less. If you can do that you WILL eventually get in. Anyone who shouldn't be in medschool but got in for whatever reason will eventually get weeded out. End of story.
 
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Because statistically black people mug people more than other races. Just go to government statistics about crime.

But oh, the government is racist too, right?
Black people are less than 50% of the total population yet they make up almost 75% of the inmate population. Do honestly believe most of the crime in America is done by black people.

Racism is always the response if blacks and hispanics don't get what they want.
Not true. Alot of it is personal responsiblity. However if someone wants to change their life they need help sometimes.

You just don't like white people. You'd rather your own race ran things. I just want the best people to run things, regardless of race.
Hell no. I want whoever can get the job done. However I think a minority sometimes can relate better to other minorities hence URM.
 
LL562 said:
Guess what guys? Life isn't fair, so deal with it. AA isn't perfect but it is the best thing they could come up with to be fair. There are millions of people with millions of different views/opinions/interests and it is impossible to please every single one of them, so someone is gonna get the short-end of the stick. Don't worry about how other people are gonna get into school, just take care of yourself. We all know what the averages for accepted students are, so we should shooting to get above average gpa/mcat/ec's, nothing less. If you can do that you WILL eventually get in. Anyone who shouldn't be in medschool but got in for whatever reason will eventually get weeded out. End of story.
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^^ This^^

SSVicious said:
The best doctor is the smartest doctor, regardless of color.
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Well, I'm not going to argue that smart doctors don't make good doctors. But you continually ignore the fact that other things factor into what makes a good physician. A doctor can only act on the facts that are given to him. If a patient refrains from relaying pertinent information to the physician because of A. A Language Barrier or B. Mistrust, then what good is that doctor with his 3.9 GPA and 40MCAT?

The mistrust isn't really fair and is a difficult barrier to overcome. But due to historical events that I won't even get into, some patients may be reluctant to disclose personal information to a physician that doesn't look , act , or talk like them. Is this fair or right? No. Is that reality. YES

SSVicious,
It's okay to disagree with affirmative action. But your tone throughout this thread has been offensive and flat out disrespectful which only leads me to believe you are a troll posting inflammatory remarks on this board just to get a reaction. Please stop worrying about the small amount of URM's in medical school and their qualifications, and instead try to improve your own qualifications for medical school. If you deserve it, you'll get in.
 
Lol, I came to see the answer to the question because I myself to am curious. Went to the last page and BAYM Jim Crow laws lollolol.
 
I'm just surprised this thread didnt go all Godwin's law on us. Someone even referenced the SS but it still didnt go full hitler/nazi. That was not what I was expecting.

Ah well. I enjoy seeing arguments angrily debated out here. Even if I personally feel the arguments are rather one sided, it lets you know what angers and beliefs are still out there. Right or wrong, we are part of an academic society now where people are articulate and well read. (reading without bias is a different matter). Because of this we all need to be able to understand what some of the more.... emotional... arguments are for stuff like this and try to understand how to best talk about them (or when its time to just walk away).
 
SSVicious said:
I don't give a damn about someone's socioeconomic circumstances.
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It's stuff like this that makes you look racist and you don't even see it. Why? Because the question that then follows is "why are blacks and latinos poor in such great numbers?" If socioeconomics doesn't matter, it must mean they are lazy, stupid, or something else similar.
 
FutureDr214 said:
You are just pissed that you weren't smart enough or didn't have a good enough GPA to warrant a scholarship. You have had opportunities and you didn't take advantage of those opportunities. Can't blame no one but yourself for that.
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SSVicious said:
You are pompous and arrogant. If you are like this off the internet I doubt you have any friends, except for other closed-minded individuals.

But I'm pretty sure you're only like this on the internet, keyboard jockey. Big talk behind the computer screen.
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argumentum ad hominem, anyone?
 
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Wow.
grandpa-simpson.gif
 
TriagePreMed said:
It's stuff like this that makes you look racist and you don't even see it. Why? Because the question that then follows is "why are blacks and latinos poor in such great numbers?" If socioeconomics doesn't matter, it must mean they are lazy, stupid, or something else similar.
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LOL! It MUST mean that, right? :thumbdown:

DocE, I read your links. Cool study. I would like to see them take it a step farther and look at acceptance statistics vs. dropout using a similar regression model.

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to read the 550 page book, but I will add it to my winter break reading material.

SS, I gotta take my hat off to you. You stood your ground. As I previously stated in this thread, this is an issue dominated by a single line of thought, and monitored through means of threatening and bullying by the pawns who give it credence. I'm sure you knew the minute you voiced your opinion it was an uphill battle.
 
I hate taking my precious time from a slow call night to remind you guys that we don't allow name-calling here. You can discuss things until eternity if you want to... but you have to stay within the limits of the TOS. Just try to keep things civil, ok? Remember, there is an "ignore" feature that you can use to block the posts of anyone you just can't stand reading. Use this feature wisely. If things get out of hand I will start paddling people one by one until you stop. I don't like doing that! So, if you don't want a paddling and a moderator-instituted vacation from SDN... then just start getting along on your own. OK?
 
scpod said:
I hate taking my precious time from a slow call night to remind you guys that we don't allow name-calling here. You can discuss things until eternity if you want to... but you have to stay within the limits of the TOS. Just try to keep things civil, ok? Remember, there is an "ignore" feature that you can use to block the posts of anyone you just can't stand reading. Use this feature wisely. If things get out of hand I will start paddling people one by one until you stop. I don't like doing that! So, if you don't want a paddling and a moderator-instituted vacation from SDN... then just start getting along on your own. OK?
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Be careful...I like paddlin's lol. Just kidding but I gotcha.
 
i think A LOT of things have been taken out of context and warped in this thread. best for all to take a deep breath and relax :)
 
Would a safe assumption be, since most Osteopathic schools are private they are less inclined to select a student based on race/ethnicity? And more inclined to choose an applicant whose views are more in line with their schools statement?...I was really hoping to get a legit answer to op's question.
 
nicknickp3 said:
Would a safe assumption be, since most Osteopathic schools are private they are less inclined to select a student based on race/ethnicity? And more inclined to choose an applicant whose views are more in line with their schools statement?...I was really hoping to get a legit answer to op's question.
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I asked this question once and it got ugly just like this. Nobody asked anyone's opinion on the URM thing. People just bring it. The answer is yes or no and why? Personally, I think all medical schools want some racial diversity in their classrooms.
 
So let me get this straight... The dissenters in this thread are not mad at the 90-100 other white people who may take "their" spot, or even the 100 other white people on the waiting list that will probably get in before them that may be just as "unqualified" as the 5-10 black and latino students that do get in. Trust me, as someone who actually works with and admissions office at a medical school, they will not let anyone in who is unqualified regardless of perceived quotas.

Most medical schools do not follow a quota. They value diversity for two reasons: 1. the minority student doctors are more likely (not definitely) to go treat the diverse population they came from and 2. They feel that the white population at their schools could learn a little about the cultures that they too will have to treat when they start their careers (everybody benefits).

If you truly want to abolish AA let's start by kicking out those who benefit most from it: White women. It is documented that white women benefit the most from AA policies (google it yourself, I am currently in Histology class at my medical school that I am very qualified to attend). After all the white women are kicked out then maybe you can have your spot.

For the record, I have no animosity toward white women or any other person, I was just making a crass statement to prove a point about misconceptions.
 
it sucks when a less qualified and more privileged URM is preferred over a better applicant. with having said that, AA helps URM patients.

pick a side and STFU.
 
You know what sucks?

It must suck for the blacks/hispanics/minorities that actually DID work their ass off to get a 4.0, that WERE able to excel at standardized tests and score a 35+ on the MCAT, and DID spend hours in research/volunteering/extracurriculars.

Sucks for them, because their accomplishments are undermined by this Affirmative Action crap that makes it seem like they just got to where they are today due to their race, but not because of their hard work and intelligence. :mad::bullcrap:
 
TriagePreMed said:
Personally, as a Hispanic, I don't care at all. I don't have a great cGPA, but I have a good post-bacc GPA, sGPA and all the other stuff. People who don't have some kind of racial bias will not assume I got in because it was easier for me. They will get to know me and judge me for my character. People that have a racial bias will always find some excuse to try to look down on me even if AA disappears.
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:thumbup: this hispanic agrees.
 
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