Do Diagnostic Radiologists Feel Like Doctors?

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VetteDad

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Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?

I left a well paying medicinal chemistry job (have a masters of science) to go to medical school so that I could take care of people, but I find myself insanely interested in radiology. However, I can envision a scenario in which I'm asked about a health problem by a friend/family member etc. and not know the answer. I know the field is ultra important to patient care in a supporting role, but it lacks prestige of being able to know how to take care of people. I'm early in my third year, but I can tell you that I love meeting patients and interacting with them. It is a difficult thought in my mind, to throw out the possibility of a career without patient interaction.

It's really the only drawback that hasn't made me throw out the entire rest of the deck of possible specialty interests. I'm looking for more meaningful feedback then "just do IR". Yes I understand that IR takes care of patients. If I did radiology, I'm certainly more interested in reading than procedures at this point. I know a lot of it probably has to do with work satisfaction and the prestige of being a "doctor" will wear off. I'm trying to find what specialty will give me that life long work satisfaction. I'd really like some insight into how you deal with being ancillary, and if you deal with this fact, and please no immature sarcasm.
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VetteDad said:
Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?

I left a well paying medicinal chemistry job (have a masters of science) to go to medical school so that I could take care of people, but I find myself insanely interested in radiology. However, I can envision a scenario in which I'm asked about a health problem by a friend/family member etc. and not know the answer. I know the field is ultra important to patient care in a supporting role, but it lacks prestige of being able to know how to take care of people. I'm early in my third year, but I can tell you that I love meeting patients and interacting with them. It is a difficult thought in my mind, to throw out the possibility of a career without patient interaction.

It's really the only drawback that hasn't made me throw out the entire rest of the deck of possible specialty interests. I'm looking for more meaningful feedback then "just do IR". Yes I understand that IR takes care of patients. If I did radiology, I'm certainly more interested in reading than procedures at this point. I know a lot of it probably has to do with work satisfaction and the prestige of being a "doctor" will wear off. I'm trying to find what specialty will give me that life long work satisfaction. I'd really like some insight into how you deal with being ancillary, and if you deal with this fact, and please no immature sarcasm.
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What do you mean by meaningful feedback?

I don't understand what you want to get out of this post. You don't like radiology for several reasons that you mentioned. Your opinion won't change. Do yourself and everyone a favor and choose another field that fits your goals. Obviously radiology is not what you are looking for. So why even bother thinking about it?
 
VetteDad said:
Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?

I left a well paying medicinal chemistry job (have a masters of science) to go to medical school so that I could take care of people, but I find myself insanely interested in radiology. However, I can envision a scenario in which I'm asked about a health problem by a friend/family member etc. and not know the answer. I know the field is ultra important to patient care in a supporting role, but it lacks prestige of being able to know how to take care of people. I'm early in my third year, but I can tell you that I love meeting patients and interacting with them. It is a difficult thought in my mind, to throw out the possibility of a career without patient interaction.

It's really the only drawback that hasn't made me throw out the entire rest of the deck of possible specialty interests. I'm looking for more meaningful feedback then "just do IR". Yes I understand that IR takes care of patients. If I did radiology, I'm certainly more interested in reading than procedures at this point. I know a lot of it probably has to do with work satisfaction and the prestige of being a "doctor" will wear off. I'm trying to find what specialty will give me that life long work satisfaction. I'd really like some insight into how you deal with being ancillary, and if you deal with this fact, and please no immature sarcasm.
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Almost every specialty is "ancillary" to some other specialty. Every specialty consults someone else for something else. Radiology provides an essential service to everyone else. And PCPs refer on to specialists when they're out of their depth. Modern medicine is largely a team effort. Everyone needs everyone else for something.
 
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It just depends on what you want out of life and your work. I could see why someone would feel like "less of a doctor", but that's really just insecurity for the most part. I question why someone needs to feel like a doctor to be happy. It's not about you, it's about the patient. Without radiology, medicine would be screwed. Good luck getting that cancer spotted. Good luck getting surgery when no one knows what they are doing surgery on
 
This is a common theme out there that comes from a simplified idea of what being a doctor means. If "being a doctor" to you means draping a stethoscope around your neck and talking to families, do yourself a favor and don't do rads.

But you'll have a hard time convincing me I'm not a doctor after a shift where I placed a couple abscess drains and did a couple thoras (and talked with those patients and their families), in addition to reading 100 X-rays, CTs, MRs and a few ultrasounds and a HIDA scan. Diagnosed chylous effusion, hemorrhagic stroke, acute cholecystitis, ACL tear, etc, most of which were unexpected.

Just some perspective for you.
 
I don't think you really understand what a radiologist does. Be it diagnostic or an interventionalist those guys can do things that make some of those "real docs" look like lightweights or philosophers.

Are you sure you're a medical student? Most third years should have a better understanding than you do of what that profession entails.

On a personal note, an interventional radiologist performed a stenting procedure on one of my loved ones that most all vascular surgeons we consulted with did not want to even attempt. As a result, this loved one has their life back. So to answer your question, IMO, a radiologist is as real a doctor as you will find.
 
VetteDad said:
Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?

I left a well paying medicinal chemistry job (have a masters of science) to go to medical school so that I could take care of people, but I find myself insanely interested in radiology. However, I can envision a scenario in which I'm asked about a health problem by a friend/family member etc. and not know the answer. I know the field is ultra important to patient care in a supporting role, but it lacks prestige of being able to know how to take care of people. I'm early in my third year, but I can tell you that I love meeting patients and interacting with them. It is a difficult thought in my mind, to throw out the possibility of a career without patient interaction.

It's really the only drawback that hasn't made me throw out the entire rest of the deck of possible specialty interests. I'm looking for more meaningful feedback then "just do IR". Yes I understand that IR takes care of patients. If I did radiology, I'm certainly more interested in reading than procedures at this point. I know a lot of it probably has to do with work satisfaction and the prestige of being a "doctor" will wear off. I'm trying to find what specialty will give me that life long work satisfaction. I'd really like some insight into how you deal with being ancillary, and if you deal with this fact, and please no immature sarcasm.
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Yes, I actually feel more like a doctor now than I did even during my intern year. There's no way in hell I could do diagnostic radiology without having gone through medical school.
 
I am a PT turned radiologist turned pain doctor turned back into an ER radiologist... so I have various perspectives along the spectrum of healthcare of what it "feels" like to be a doctor. As a resident, I did feel how you described... not as much like a doctor... I wanted more clinic time so I did a pain fellowship and then practiced a year of of pain management. Did I feel like a doctor? Absolutely, however, I found the skills that made me feel MOST like a (good) doctor was when I reviewed my patients imaging and made an accurate diagnosis which had been missed and ultimately led the patient to me to manage their chronic pain treatment. Now, as an ER radiologist, I am literally the first physician to see most patients coming through the ER because studies are ordered through the triage nurse instead of the managing physician. Once the ER doc has the diagnosis that I gave them, THEN they act to discharge, admit and call the appropriate service. So, yeah... do I feel like a doctor? Much more so than other physicians who feel they are a filing service or a pathway to another referral or a paper pusher. Primary care is all about the phone calls and follow up... very little time spent with the patient because of insurance cuts and pressure to see more patients. Radiology is all medicine all day long because of the efficiency of PACS. What happens when a floor procedure can't be done? Someone call the radiologist to do it under fluoro or ultrasound!... or even CT or MRI on occasion. You won't gain those skills as well from other residencies. That's my two cents.
 
freddydpt said:
I am a PT turned radiologist turned pain doctor turned back into an ER radiologist... so I have various perspectives along the spectrum of healthcare of what it "feels" like to be a doctor. As a resident, I did feel how you described... not as much like a doctor... I wanted more clinic time so I did a pain fellowship and then practiced a year of of pain management. Did I feel like a doctor? Absolutely, however, I found the skills that made me feel MOST like a (good) doctor was when I reviewed my patients imaging and made an accurate diagnosis which had been missed and ultimately led the patient to me to manage their chronic pain treatment. Now, as an ER radiologist, I am literally the first physician to see most patients coming through the ER because studies are ordered through the triage nurse instead of the managing physician. Once the ER doc has the diagnosis that I gave them, THEN they act to discharge, admit and call the appropriate service. So, yeah... do I feel like a doctor? Much more so than other physicians who feel they are a filing service or a pathway to another referral or a paper pusher. Primary care is all about the phone calls and follow up... very little time spent with the patient because of insurance cuts and pressure to see more patients. Radiology is all medicine all day long because of the efficiency of PACS. What happens when a floor procedure can't be done? Someone call the radiologist to do it under fluoro or ultrasound!... or even CT or MRI on occasion. You won't gain those skills as well from other residencies. That's my two cents.
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Just wanted to let you know that I listened to the Specialty Stories podcast featuring you this morning on my drive to work. That's all
 
aformerstudent said:
I don't think you really understand what a radiologist does. Be it diagnostic or an interventionalist those guys can do things that make some of those "real docs" look like lightweights or philosophers.

Are you sure you're a medical student? Most third years should have a better understanding than you do of what that profession entails.

On a personal note, an interventional radiologist performed a stenting procedure on one of my loved ones that most all vascular surgeons we consulted with did not want to even attempt. As a result, this loved one has their life back. So to answer your question, IMO, a radiologist is as real a doctor as you will find.
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Should, but don't. Most med schools do a pretty poor job of explaining what a profession actually entails and beyond the core clinical rotations, exposure to a field is completely dependent on the individual doing shadowing or an elective in the field. Lack of exposure to a variety of fields is one of the major shortcomings of our educations system Imo, and I think radiology is up there on the list that med students don't know enough about.
 
Stagg737 said:
Should, but don't. Most med schools do a pretty poor job of explaining what a profession actually entails and beyond the core clinical rotations, exposure to a field is completely dependent on the individual doing shadowing or an elective in the field. Lack of exposure to a variety of fields is one of the major shortcomings of our educations system Imo, and I think radiology is up there on the list that med students don't know enough about.
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That's why the medical student must be proactive.
 
Enjoy/need patient interaction --> Don't do diagnostic radiology. You'll likely be in a room, possibly in pajamas depending on the site, reading films all day. One person's hell is another person's heaven.
 
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studentdocftw said:
Enjoy/need patient interaction --> Don't do diagnostic radiology. You'll likely be in a room, possibly in pajamas depending on the site, reading films all day. One person's hell is another person's heaven.
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Most radiologists don't work in pajamas.
 
beyond IR I know that if you go into women's imaging you get a lot more patient interaction as a radiologist

as far as fielding relatives' questions etc, there was a radiologist at my school who basically knew everything about everything... like, obviously he didn't have the training to prescribe treatment and be able to monitor response (that's what clinical practice gives you that a book can't) but when it came to being a doctor and knowing the **** out of medicine, he was one of the most doctorly doctors around
 
Crayola227 said:
like, obviously he didn't have the training to prescribe treatment and be able to monitor response (that's what clinical practice gives you that a book can't)
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Many radiologists do an internship year where they prescribe and monitor response. I managed sepsis, heart failure, COPD exacerbation, CAP/HCAP, DKA, uncontrolled DM, alcohol withdrawal, cellulitis, AKI, pulmonary embolism, malignant otitis externa, etc and called appropriate consults. If I forgot a dose, I would check medscape or epocrates. We always assessed for side-effects while taking the patient's clinical picture into perspective. Many radiologists can still manage routine medicine issues excluding the more complex management algorithms they have forgotten; but most don't care to deal with direct patient management and its ugly hassles.
 
Cyal said:
Many radiologists do an internship year where they prescribe and monitor response. I managed sepsis, heart failure, COPD exacerbation, CAP/HCAP, DKA, uncontrolled DM, alcohol withdrawal, cellulitis, AKI, pulmonary embolism, malignant otitis externa, etc and called appropriate consults. If I forgot a dose, I would check medscape or epocrates. We always assessed for side-effects while taking the patient's clinical picture into perspective. Many radiologists can still manage routine medicine issues excluding the more complex management algorithms they have forgotten; but most don't care to deal with direct patient management and its ugly hassles.
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eh, most docs I know that had one year of internship followed by years spent out of clinical practice don't seem to think they have the sort of experience that makes them qualified to do any of what you just said on their own

yes, you can get an unlimited license to practice as a GP un- board certified doc after intern year, but in general it's accepted that medicine requires practice to be practiced well

in any case, I agree with the spirit of any argument that radiologists are damn fine doctor's doctors
 
Uhhh you can make that case of "not feeling like a real doctor" to every single specialty. As a doctor, you have to rely on other specialties to do what you can't because you will run into that scenario.
 
vm26 said:
Do scrubs fall under the pajama spectrum?
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It is all about definition of the words. Probably you are right.

I have a colleague who is in his 60s and always shows up to work with a dress shirt, tie, pants and during winter time a dress coat. Unbelievable.
 
Are they what the public thinks of when they think of doctor? In my experience, no. When I've talked to people outside of medicine, they had no idea psychiatrists, radiologists, or pathologists were even something you could be after med school. The public's criteria for doctor seems to at the minimum include taking H&P's and/or doing surgery.
 
tough question. I think you have to weigh what is more important: interaction with patients or your interest in radiology.
The prestige is irrelevant, your happiness shouldn't depend on that (but if its absolute requirement than weight that as well). Final point, I have never heard anybody question whether radiologists are doctors or not nor do I think it is a common thing. In the end it is work satisfaction that matters most, everything else is secondary.
 
If you want to "feel" like a "doctor" then you need to do IM, EM, or maybe FM in a big city. If you want to have long lasting job satisfaction and don't have to divulge the fact that you are a physician to every person you meet, do radiology.
 
youprobablydontknowme said:
If you want to "feel" like a "doctor" then you need to do IM, EM, or maybe FM in a big city. If you want to have long lasting job satisfaction and don't have to divulge the fact that you are a physician to every person you meet, do radiology.
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Wow, what rock do you guys live under? I'm assuming most of us here are somewhat educated and I would think any person with a college degree who is familiar with the health professions should know that diagnostic and interventional radiologists are amongst the highest compensated docs out there. It would be below a radiologist to explain to a peon that they are a physician.

And I'll say it again, some IR's can do procedures that would make some "doctors" cream their pants.
 
I'm hoping that you're joking but I can assure you the odds of your average Joe knowing a radiologist is a physician are 50/50 at best.

I have had the retort "oh my aunt does that, she went to night school" or some variation multiple times over the last few years when I tell someone I'm a radiologist. Doesn't bother me but if that would then certainly radiology isn't for you.
 
meister said:
I'm hoping that you're joking but I can assure you the odds of your average Joe knowing a radiologist is a physician are 50/50 at best.

I have had the retort "oh my aunt does that, she went to night school" or some variation multiple times over the last few years when I tell someone I'm a radiologist. Doesn't bother me but if that would then certainly radiology isn't for you.
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Oh forgive me, I have high standards when it comes to people. If you are going to medical school...especially in the US, I would imagine you would spend one week out of the summer before class starts and read something like...Amazon product ASIN 0071790276
When I was a lowly pre-med, I was proactive and found this amazing hospital internship for pre-med's that exposed us in some way, shape, or form every specialty. If a lowly person like myself could arrange that, some of these bow-tie wearing, boujee people can do that as well.

I knew more about radiologists at 18 than some of these third-years.
 
Radiology is a great field but two things Med students don't think about.

1. Radiologists work VERY HARD. It is one of the toughest jobs in the hospital. Always busy reading films, procedures, etc. Many radiologists work non stop during their work shift. And work many weekends. Keep in mind hospitals and ERs are open 24-7. Radiologists read the radiology studies ordered by these physicians.

2. Radiologists make a lot of money but there are doctors that work less as hard and make just as much money or if not more. Urologists, Gastroenterologists, Radiation Oncologists, Heme Oncologists, and Anesthesiologists make as much money and tend to easier. Also they have more weekends off than most radiologists.

Don't go into radiology for money and/or lifestyle.
 
EasyRider said:
Radiology is a great field but two things Med students don't think about.

1. Radiologists work VERY HARD. It is one of the toughest jobs in the hospital. Always busy reading films, procedures, etc. Many radiologists work non stop during their work shift. And work many weekends. Keep in mind hospitals and ERs are open 24-7. Radiologists read the radiology studies ordered by these physicians.

2. Radiologists make a lot of money but there are doctors that work less as hard and make just as much money or if not more. Urologists, Gastroenterologists, Radiation Oncologists, Heme Oncologists, and Anesthesiologists make as much money and tend to easier. Also they have more weekends off than most radiologists.

Don't go into radiology for money and/or lifestyle.
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Agree.

It all depends on personal choices and interests. You made very good points. Do it only if it is interesting to you.

Our lifestyle is not as bad a trauma surgeons but it not as good as dermatologists. We are in the middle.
Similarly our compensation is very good but you can make similar money or a little more or less in many other fields.

Having said that, I prefer to read films for 2 hours than talking for one hour to a patient with DM, ESRD, CAD and TIA. I prefer to read CTs for one hour than doing a 15 minute endoscopy on a patient with UGI Bleeding.

Just do what you like. I have done it for 15 years and I can tell you that most doctors, if not stupid should be able to live a comfortable life and have enough saving for retirement. Believe me. 20-30% more or less income is not going to change the quality of your life in the long run but liking or hating your job WILL DEFINITELY determine the quality of your life.
 
My mother in law still isn't sure what I do for a living. She knows I deal with medical imaging in some regard, but is not sure beyond that. For a long time, she thought I "interpreted the reports".
 
VetteDad said:
Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?

I left a well paying medicinal chemistry job (have a masters of science) to go to medical school so that I could take care of people, but I find myself insanely interested in radiology. However, I can envision a scenario in which I'm asked about a health problem by a friend/family member etc. and not know the answer. I know the field is ultra important to patient care in a supporting role, but it lacks prestige of being able to know how to take care of people. I'm early in my third year, but I can tell you that I love meeting patients and interacting with them. It is a difficult thought in my mind, to throw out the possibility of a career without patient interaction.

It's really the only drawback that hasn't made me throw out the entire rest of the deck of possible specialty interests. I'm looking for more meaningful feedback then "just do IR". Yes I understand that IR takes care of patients. If I did radiology, I'm certainly more interested in reading than procedures at this point. I know a lot of it probably has to do with work satisfaction and the prestige of being a "doctor" will wear off. I'm trying to find what specialty will give me that life long work satisfaction. I'd really like some insight into how you deal with being ancillary, and if you deal with this fact, and please no immature sarcasm.
Click to expand...

I haven't read the thread beyond your initial post. Radiologists are crucial doctors. They know more about diseases than most other doctors. It's not just someone who knows anatomy and can read films.

By becoming a radiologist, you're helping take care of patients all the time. Why is it different when an ID or kidney doctor reviews the chart and makes recommendations and a radiologist reviewing a film and making a diagnosis and help the team arrive at a plan?

If you like it, do radiology and don't look back.
 
I am a diagnostic radiologist. I can say I feel like as much a doctor as any other doctor. First, we all went to medical school. Not that I don't give respect to mid-levels, but I trust physicians on the other line when I give results and they trust me. I really don't care what laymen think of me being a doctor. I remember being on clinical rotations and internship. When you are doing that kind of work to the best of your ability and taking the best care of your patients possible, it really sucks the life out of you. Some people can go on giving 110% in interactions with their patients. People outside of medicine may not respect radiologists but most radiologists are not concerned. We help doctors help patients and are somewhat hidden from the most patients. If you want prestige and recognition, there are plenty of places in medicine for you including radiology, but that should be the least of your concerns.
 
VetteDad said:
Like the title states, if you are a diagnostic radiologist do you ever feel like you're not a medical doctor? If you aren't having patient interaction do you ever feel like you could have just learned a bunch of anatomy and how to read films in graduate school? Do you ever feel like a technician who's just paid well?
Click to expand...

The difference between doctors and technicians is the exercise of medical judgment and the corresponding responsibility that confers. Not everything is automatable. Not everything is objective. MD is for Making Decisions. Radiologists make decisions when arriving at a diagnosis and communicating it. There is an art as well as a science in forming an impression, wording the report, and talking to the referring clinician. A clinical radiologist has a sense of not only the test characteristics (the imaging findings), but also the pretest probability (eg, patient demographics, history, the referring clinician), leading to a posttest probability (the certainty of a diagnosis). Radiologists also make recommendations for management (eg, biopsy, repeat imaging, imaging of a different modality, subspecialty consultation). Don't be fooled by the seemingly objective and impersonal language of radiology reports.
 
aformerstudent said:
I would think any person with a college degree who is familiar with the health professions should know that diagnostic and interventional radiologists are amongst the highest compensated docs out there.
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Do you know what Thought thought?
 
I remember a friend of mine once told me about his Radiology specialty. He's description was the best one I've heard. He said "Radiologists are diagnosticians. They are basically Gregory Houses in the hospitals". I thought it was clever and put any laymen doubts to rest if you are a real doctor. I know it's probably far fetched but for a regular person it sounds about right.
 
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