Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
you will see the opposite as well. very hard to get OB rotations as a male and even harder to get into the rooms
-
The 2026-2027 DO School Specific Threads are now available in the School Specific Discussions forum. The 2025-2026 discussions are now available in the prior year discussions forum.
DO discrimination
Started by BenzylAcetate
- Status
you will see the opposite as well. very hard to get OB rotations as a male and even harder to get into the rooms
See, Dharma? My protests weren't completely unfounded! 😀
Rogue.... data please. Need to confirm this isn't self fellating bull crap 😉
Same old -- like others have pointed out. Cartoonist web traffic wins.
If it helps the cause, I'd probably rather see a DO also. Although my n is very small, I've had incredibly positive encounters with DOs. My primary care doc is an MD and quite competent (hell, I've had her for 15 years now) but she is rushed and short. My DO encounters have been much more relaxed and left me with a feeling of contentedness as opposed to "crap, did I forget to mention something"..
Again, my n is small, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but to imply that there isn't a single person on the planet that would prefer a DO over an MD is a bit silly, don't you think?
No one answered my q
Choosing one over the other is silly. The differences between their attitudes probably has very little to do with being a DO or MD.
Are you asking if patients discriminate against seeing DOs? Most of the time patients do not even notice they're seeing a DO.
If you show up in a white coat and act like a doctor, they'll just assume you are an MD. Hence, a lot of patients I've run into who think the PA or NP they see in the primary care clinic is their "doctor".
Unless you're female. Then you'll notice that there are some patients who assume that any female medical worker they deal with is a "nurse".
For fun, you might also want to try polling some of the laypeople you know about if radiologists are actually doctors or try asking them what the difference is between a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Most laypeople don't pay attention to these kinds of distinctions, let alone something more obscure like what the difference is between a DO vs. MD.
Discrimination against Osteopathic physicians will persist in this country, as they threaten the very monopoly of market power held by the MD establishment. The misinformation spread by the MD establishment against osteopathic physicians is driven by an underlying cause to undermine their standing in the public's eye. Hence, the more disinformation and fallacies that can be spread, the more beneficial it will be to those in power. However, I will add that this opposition should generation a greater desire for osteopathic physicians to over come the barrier set forth by the AMA and various other political entities that have an interest in maintaining the status quo.
The MD establishment's affected desire to maintain superior care, while managing the overthrow of alternative, medical philosophies is political sophistry at its finest. I, for one, do not believe that they are concerned with managing superior care as they are with maintaining their inflated incomes. Special interests rule the day in America, rendering truth and justice casualties to the ever pervasive ideology of relativism.
http://mises.org/daily/4276
http://mises.org/daily/1749
The MD establishment's affected desire to maintain superior care, while managing the overthrow of alternative, medical philosophies is political sophistry at its finest. I, for one, do not believe that they are concerned with managing superior care as they are with maintaining their inflated incomes. Special interests rule the day in America, rendering truth and justice casualties to the ever pervasive ideology of relativism.
http://mises.org/daily/4276
http://mises.org/daily/1749
Last edited:
Precisely. How many people knew about the DO degree before they went premed? I read some comments people made online when that anesthesiologist in FL went nuts; it was clear some people had no idea he had a medical degree (a "real" physician). On the other hand, my optometrist said people have asked where he went to medical school to get his "doctor" degree....
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Maybe, but I have personally experienced the longstanding theory that DOs "treat the whole patient" whereas MDs are quite sterile and systematic. It kind of caught me as a cliche at first, but after 40 minutes of watching this particular DO converse with myself and my wife (the patient), I truly felt caught up in it.
I am well aware that I am poorly articulating the scenario that was in front of me, but I think you get the jist of what I'm trying to say here.
I would of course admit that the actual medical care of both was/is equal, it was simply the delivery of said care that made the difference. My experience is not unique to myself nor is it new, similar accounts have been widely reported for a long time.
IDK guys. seems fair enough to me. Its the sort of post I might write if things went differently for me. Is the post without flaws? No, not even close. But it is well written and I believe fair. Sure she gets some stuff slightly wrong, but she is writing an overall positive and (from external appearances at least) fair read on what she has seen in the world of medicine.
Nearly everyone wants the best candidate, period. Some places feel that a name brand school plays into your worth as a candidate, some feel that solely your performance (Regardless of "where at") is the metric used to evaluate worth. No DO school has name brand. Work under that assumption. So its just a matter of taking the best candidate and some people use a metric that does put DOs at a disadvantage in one category. Thats bias I guess, but bias I understand.
Nearly everyone wants the best candidate, period. Some places feel that a name brand school plays into your worth as a candidate, some feel that solely your performance (Regardless of "where at") is the metric used to evaluate worth. No DO school has name brand. Work under that assumption. So its just a matter of taking the best candidate and some people use a metric that does put DOs at a disadvantage in one category. Thats bias I guess, but bias I understand.
Michigan State for sure. Oklahoma State maybe? Maybe Nova?
Everyone knows what Michigan State is. Not everyone knows what a Lincoln Debusk is. Any of the state DO schools will garner "name brand" I think. Unfourtunantly, there are so few.
Other than that, no name brand I can think of.
Ohio University, UMDNJ, University of North Texas Health Science Center. Well the HSC part sounds flashy to me, at least.
You seem to have already identified the problem here
Holy freaking crap.... you get it 👍
Des Moines and Philadelphia are known quantities even in surgical circles. The state DO schools are well respected and have wide support in their states, most notably OSU, MSU, TCOM.
In all of these cases, except MSU, I'm going to have to strongly disagree. Incluing UMDNJ, Oklahoma and OU. MSU is an exception because it is a high level DO school attached to a mid/low-level MD school. Its a highly known value and can be directly compared to the MD school since it overlaps so well with it. None of these others school (UMDNJ im looking at you) will be mistaken for a similar MD school or something they arent. They will be fairly evaluated, but to someone measuring a value for "what school is it" they will fall below any MD school in that directors value judgement. A value rating below any other MD school is not a value rating of significance, even if it is acknowledged that they are successful at x y or z.
The remainder may have names. But not name value. I dont mean to diss them, but i cant think of a more clear wording (I tried to find some. but im unable to). Any program that assigns a value metric on "where" you come from, not just your objective performance will not give any DO school (MSU excepted) a non-zero value. The undergrad its associated with has no relevance to the medical schools reputation. And its not a terrible thing to say that the school carries no positive influence except, perhaps, in its local vicinity (advantage of OU, its local vicinity is likely the largest as I imagine it would have good influence through all of Ohio).
But many places dont give the school you come from a value metric. But those who do, I cannot see any DO school (or all but one, as it may be) having enough "name influence" to overtake even the lowest MD school in that category. Name brand is not a "fair" value metric since it appears to discriminate against DO schools, but the way I see it, its simply a metric of the influence a school carries between connections, hospitals, graduates, research, and political pull all added together with some other factors i cant think up right now. And its just a field where DO schools are less competitive (oh god im gonna regret using those words) just by the trend of how they have developed somewhat decentralized from major university hospitals and research grants and without long histories behind them in many cases.
Msu is still basically considered Michigan's special little brother
I parsed what you wrote, but I still don't know what you're trying to say.
Let's just look at state DO schools for now. The state legislatures gave them a different mission than the research powerhouses. Their "value" lies in a different focus: producing primary care physicians for the state (and if anyone decides to pursue a specialty, let them). They may not have as much prestige according to some folks, but do they have name recognition within the physician population in the state? You bet.
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
agree to disagree based on comments ive heard from attendings within teaching programs (related to me). My n=? is small though.
Last edited:
Actually, Nevermind..
Last edited:
I live in Southeastern Michigan, and have for my entire life, and have met a lot of nurses/patients who didn't even know MSU had a medical school much less MD/DO. Everyone here knows MSU for 3 things, a vet school, a party school, and a football team.
That said, MSUCOM is an amazing program and who gives a crap if it doesn't have "name brand". You want to be a competent physician, because honestly, most patients don't care and will never know where you graduated from unless they do their research (which more and more patients are doing, which is good).
As to what cartoondoc said, honestly, as someone who grew up in Michigan one of the, if not the, biggest state for DOs - there is still DO discrimination here. Does that make it right? Absolutely not. But it exists.
As for the reasoning as why people go to DO schools instead of MD schools - I have no comment.
I will say I was told by the DO I shadowed to always take the US MD school over the DO school (with exceptions, obviously), but anecdotal evidence is worthless. His reasoning for this was to avoid the discrimination that does exist.
I will end this post with the following: DOs are the educational, legal, and professional equivalent to MDs and any and all discrimination against DOs is foolish at best.
I told a story in a previous post about how I was originally going to MSUCOM then got taken off the waitlist at an MD school and that day accepted there. However, I feel I would have gotten a comparable education at MSUCOM and am extremely lucky to have gotten an acceptance from them in the beginning of the cycle so I knew no matter what happened I was going to medical school.
Prestige, or whatever noun they use for it, matters if you want to match at an academic center. For 99.9% of your healthcare needs, do you need to see a Top 10-trained physician? Doubt it. In fact, for most procedures, I'd rather go to a community-trained physician who has done it 100 times for a living rather than an academic-trained physician with not as much direct experience but publishes a lot...
Prestige helps matching into competitve fields of medicine, competitve locations for residency, and helps with fellowship opportunities too. It probably even helps with employment opportunties. It makes your life much easier.
There is no difference in the training between a large community residency program and a university program, but there is a big difference between a small, low volume, community program and a high-volume academic center.
Do you see any of the big state schools getting DO schools? Like Florida state, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue etc.
I do think Ohio is borderline name recognition, at least in the midwest. I would imagine a residency director would feel more comfortable having a OU grad vs a LECOM or a branch campus PCOM DO school student. As much as I know I will get flamed for this, I would rather have my physician, MD or DO, come from a well known university were standards are high and it seems like MSU and OU have high standards. My two cents.
MSU is my top school, MD and DO, I bleed green and white! But, as far as getting into medical school? I guess beggars cant be choosers
Please love me MSU when the time comes to apply.
Do you see any of the big state schools getting DO schools? Like Florida state, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue etc.
I do think Ohio is borderline name recognition, at least in the midwest. I would imagine a residency director would feel more comfortable having a OU grad vs a LECOM or a branch campus PCOM DO school student. As much as I know I will get flamed for this, I would rather have my physician, MD or DO, come from a well known university were standards are high and it seems like MSU and OU have high standards. My two cents.
MSU is my top school, MD and DO, I bleed green and white! But, as far as getting into medical school? I guess beggars cant be choosers
Please love me MSU when the time comes to apply.
As the only other state medical school in ohio. OU sure as hell carries weight in the midwest and beyond. also internationally in Ecuador where they have a partnership.
whoaaa bro just because you go to a harlem school that looks like this doesn't mean you can throw all the other schools under the bus by saying they're equally no good
Name brand, are you kidding me? Most people in this country have no idea which schools have medical schools or not. You people will argue about anything, lol.
Cheap shot with the pic. Have you ever been in the building? It's pretty darn nice in there. I don't see Doc Espana trying to pump up his own school, in fact, if anything he's always been pretty straightforward and honest about the place. Anyhow, he didn't trash anyone but is just telling it like he sees it. DO schools will have a bit of local clout in some places. It's not really worth a thought IMO.
This all aside, "brand name DO school" sounds a bit oxymoronic to me.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
When you're practicing it doesn't matter, but it helps getting a residency.
I can definitely tell you that there is a huge DO discrimination where I live. Lots of people don't even know what a DO is. And the people who do know treat it like a badge of shame, look at them like people who cut not cut it in real medicine.
Heck my uncle got acceptance to a DO school, declined and applied the next year to MD school. It is a good thing he got in.
And then there are always the premed students too, who believe that the Do degree is a death sentence. Was talking with a girl the other day who wanted to apply to medical school and ask if she was going to apply DO. She said no and when I asked her what happens if she doesn't get in she said she would just do a doctorate in speech hearing. Had to explain to her what a DO is.
It would suck having to explain your degree every single day. I wonder if dentists have that problem lol.
Heck my uncle got acceptance to a DO school, declined and applied the next year to MD school. It is a good thing he got in.
And then there are always the premed students too, who believe that the Do degree is a death sentence. Was talking with a girl the other day who wanted to apply to medical school and ask if she was going to apply DO. She said no and when I asked her what happens if she doesn't get in she said she would just do a doctorate in speech hearing. Had to explain to her what a DO is.
It would suck having to explain your degree every single day. I wonder if dentists have that problem lol.
We're u live
orly? everyone thinks DO is a badge of shame? Did you know 95% of the population doesn't even have a doctorate degree in anything? If you aren't trolling, the people from where you live are
Wow, that is a totally ghetto looking school. Amazing.
Assuming he's the average age of my uncles, he probably graduated/applied in the 80s to VERY, VERY early 90s. The admissions game was completely different back then. You can't compare it to today. The time of declining acceptances and reapplying is long gone. Asking out the prom king or queen a second time after a failed first attempt still leads to a second failed attempt.
Seriously? Why does it matter how a building looks on the outside? Does that in any way point to the quality of the education provided within the school? TouroCOM-NY is located in a very urban setting, Manhattan NY and is a new medical school! Given that NYC is one of the most expensive cities in the US (if not the most expensive) in terms of real estate, moving the school to a fancier building will likely result in increased tuition costs, which are right now very decent for a private school. No thanks
when was this the 70s, 80s, early 90s....the game was totally different back then...mcat scores, DO schools...everything was different
Late 80s. He has been in practice for 20ish years I think?
It is sad too because I know that DO programs are rigorous, but people that I know would rather go to carribean than DO. Grl at my school is entering carribean after getting rejected from my state MD, refuses to go DO. Guy in my physics class is having hard time deciding weather or not to go carribean or DO because of his GPA (like DO schools just *hand out acceptances)
I would prolly bring dishonor on my famary if i go to DO school because my uncles are all MD (same Med school)
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
then do yourself a favor and go MD. no offense, but just let that potential seat at a DO school go to someone who wants more to be a Physician than to have one letter switched in their medical initials.
Lol, wish it was that easy.
I plan on applying to both. If i get accepted to a DO school and not an MD school, u best believe I'm taking that spot, wherever it is. I'm not stupid or too proud.
I was just highlighting the discrimination that I see. I would be considered a failure by my family, but it is not my families choice, it is mine. I would rather be a physician than not.
That statement is very very very sad. It's not their life, it's yours.
It depends on who's evaluating your life's worth 😛.
As far as my family and friends go, my mom asked me once what DO was and I told her the numerous physicians in our community/have seen that were. She stopped right there, "MY SON IS GONNA BE A DOCTOR!"
Other's have told me many times how well DOs treated them and they were proud of my choice to go to a DO school.
Treat someone right, they don't care what your credentials are.
You're male? Lol
That's Jennifer Nettles.
It sucks but what can yah do lol.
My mom is the worst about it. She said that DO schools are for people who couldn't cut it In real medical school and that for the rest of my life I will be treated like a second class doctor, always overshadowed by my brother. Unfortunately, looking at peoples actions around me at my school, I actually see that as a possibility. That's why I am going to leave my state once I'm done with undergrad.
Florida here I come, lets make magic together NOVA Med school!
I don't think the public has any idea what it takes to get into medical school. However, I think the medical community, especially MDs, assumes this to be true. No one really cares, though. No one has treated me any different than the MD students I've rotated with and DO attendings get treated with the same respect as MD attendings.
I think the only 'bad' part about the DO degree is that it is tougher to get a 'good' ACGME residency, but after that it doesn't really matter. Fellowships just care where you did you residency and employers just care if you are competent. You'll be a physician, you'll get a residency somewhere in the US, and you'll make >=$180k a year.
If you're interested in family medicine, pysch, PM&R, peds, emergency medicine, ob/gyn, internal medicine, anesthesia, pathology, neurology, general surgery (AOA), orthopedic surgery (AOA), and (maybe) radiology, then you should be fine as a DO.
Last edited:
D
deleted103644
You know Columbia, one of the top MD programs in the country, could also basically be called a "Harlem" school. So could Mount Sinai (another great MD program). That's a really stupid point to make.
I know very little about DO school rankings, but I'm sure any DO school in the middle of NYC gets better applicants than many Midwest MD programs (much less DO).
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
- Status
