Do doctors have shorter average life expectancy?

[SnowTown]

Just wondering.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BloodySurgeon]

I was always told that women lived longer than men because their bodies were under less stress physically than men were. I guess the same applies to non-physicians.

 

[deleted103644]

I've always heard that doctors don't live as long. I'd have to imagine that considering the whole combination of stress + sick people.

 

[PugMD]

I thought that in general there is a longer life expectancy for people with higher socioeconomic status? But then again, does it really matter? Take care of yourself and don't lose sleep wondering when its going to be time to bite the dust.

 

[deleted87716]

It's a myth.

Maverick veterinarian Joel Wallach is selling video and audio tapes titled Dead Doctors Don't Lie! proclaiming that physicians have a life expectancy of only 58 years. This sends the message that doctors are so wrongheaded that they themselves live significantly shorter lives than the general population.

It is not clear where Wallach gets his data, but it is a lie. Physicians have long had life expectancies that are longer than the general population. Goodman [1] reviewed reports on physician life expectancies in 1925, 1938-42, 1949-51, and 1971. His study covered the 1971 population of 344,823 physicians, and the deaths of 19,086 from 1969 through 1973. He found that both male and female physicians had greater life expectancy than the general population.

The American Medical Association's Center For Health Care Policy published data on the life expectancies of U.S. medical graduate physicians by specialty in 1988. [2] It showed that the life expectancy of physicians is somewhere between 75 and 88, depending upon the age and gender that one chooses.

Source: http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1996/3-4.html

Click here for more info.

 

[Towelie]

Getting married is the best thing you can do to increase your life expectancy. Married smokers have a higher life expectancy than single non-smokers.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

oh goodie! i've always wanted to choose my own age and gender!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Age is directly correlated to stressing your organs. If you don't over-eat and are reasonable in your energy input/output... you'll live longer. (notice you can still be in good shape and eat a ton and thus have a lower life expectancy)

 

[PeripateticMD]

Sorry, had to post this (as i read this thread to my single, writer roommate).

"You know what? Getting married increases your life expectancy." - me

"I guess that makes sense. But what if no one will love me? Then I guess it's better to die." - her

We laughed so hard after that... but anyhow, go on conversing.

 

[chad5871]

As long as I die after I retire, it's all good. I don't want to earn all of that retirement money just to have it go to my kids!

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

Sorry, had to post this (as i read this thread to my single, writer roommate).

"You know what? Getting married increases your life expectancy." - me

"I guess that makes sense. But what if no one will love me? Then I guess it's better to die." - her

We laughed so hard after that... but anyhow, go on conversing.

she might have just uncovered the mechanism. i wonder how many single ppl dying younger committed suicide, ate themselves into obesity, drank themselves into liver failure, etc.

 

[PeripateticMD]

she might have just uncovered the mechanism. i wonder how many single ppl dying younger committed suicide, ate themselves into obesity, drank themselves into liver failure, etc.

We both decided we'd choose to die of food intake. We figure we'd enjoy it on the way. I told her I may go that way regardless (i do have a SO). HAHA. We should totally start a poll. If you were single, how would you choose to decrease your life expectancy... hmmmm...

 

[beenthere2]

Apparently physicians DO have a somewhat shorter life expectancy when compared to similar socio-economic groups. They are quite aware of healthy lifestyles. I don't know...do they live by the motto, "do as I say, not as I do?"

 

[sirus_virus]

Stress and lack of sleep cuts down life expectancy. Physicians have a lot of stress, so they probably die quicker.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Getting married is the best thing you can do to increase your life expectancy. Married smokers have a higher life expectancy than single non-smokers.

No, getting married USED to be the best thing you can do. Now with the divorce rate at 50% it is a different story. Men who get divorced suffer major depression and their chance of suicide goes up x2. Of course because of this life expectancy goes way down. Women, eh not so much.

 

[PepperMD]

I've heard that marriage increases life expectancy for men and decreases life expectancy for women, at least as it's been measured in the past. The theory being that men gain a partner to share responsibility while women gain the liability of taking on these added responsibilities. It could be argued that changing roles for men and women are closing this gap, but I'll leave that can of worms on the shelf.

 

[notdeadyet]

Apparently physicians DO have a somewhat shorter life expectancy when compared to similar socio-economic groups.

Where are you getting this from?

 

[xx216xx]

Yes, doctors have a shorter life expectancy, that is of course if said doctor loves cliff diving into the dirt, sky diving without a parachute, or poking sleeping grizzly bears with a stick for fun. I mean who's to say if they live longer or not. There are just too many variables like genetics, lifestyle, or just shear luck. The very day one becomes a doctor could be their last or they could live to be 500 becuase they discovered an age ******ant and wouldn't share. This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've seen debated.

 

[Genetics]

I want to live to be 200 years old just to see what society is like.

 

[TheCybermen]

Stress and lack of sleep cuts down life expectancy. Physicians have a lot of stress, so they probably die quicker.

i can assure you that trader, hedge fund, and financier types suffer from a great deal of stress either on a par or at times greater than that of a physician. when you salary is directly determined by the ramifications of your stock options and market insight, the econo-political "whim" of each passing day, and the variations therewith insofar as twenty different time zones is concerned, stress is in a category of its own for such professionals.

in my experience, which is extensive, physicians have lived much longer, much healthier lives than most. statistics are statistics -- they unfortunately account for bad apples, and bad apples weigh just as much as good ones.

 

[SnowTown]

Age is directly correlated to stressing your organs. If you don't over-eat and are reasonable in your energy input/output... you'll live longer. (notice you can still be in good shape and eat a ton and thus have a lower life expectancy)

So you're saying it is bad for me to run a mile and play 3 to 4 hours of basketball 4 to 5 days a week? Crap!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

So you're saying it is bad for me to run a mile and play 3 to 4 hours of basketball 4 to 5 days a week? Crap!

i remember learning something to this matter. please someone correct me if im wrong.

i remember i learned something in a class to the effect that people could potentially live longer lives if they didnt eat as much (not just the type of food they ate, but the quantity)... if you eat to the extent that you dont stress your organs.. .that is dont eat until you're entirely full or overly full each meal... you'll live longer.

i believe there is also a curve for exercise. of course no exercise will make you live a shorter life. but too much exercise can be detrimental as well (i think it actually matters more on the type of exercise). if i remember weightlifting stresses the body to an extent that may shorten your life expectancy. however running a few miles a week is defnitely favorable. it may depend on how beneficial the exercise is to your heart?

anybody have anymore insight on this? i remember learning these theories in a class i took freshman year.... cant seem to find any sources online.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've heard that marriage increases life expectancy for men and decreases life expectancy for women, at least as it's been measured in the past. The theory being that men gain a partner to share responsibility while women gain the liability of taking on these added responsibilities. It could be argued that changing roles for men and women are closing this gap, but I'll leave that can of worms on the shelf.

I also have heard that marriage increases male life expectancy, but I doubt for the reasons you suggest. The key reasons I can think of is it's likely that couples eat better diets than bachelors, and most men will only seek medical care when forced to by their wives.

 

[MadHopsMD]

I was told ones by someone that anesthesiologist have a high heart attack risk than normal...must be the pressure...

 

[VandyXGirl]

i remember learning something to this matter. please someone correct me if im wrong.

i remember i learned something in a class to the effect that people could potentially live longer lives if they didnt eat as much (not just the type of food they ate, but the quantity)... if you eat to the extent that you dont stress your organs.. .that is dont eat until you're entirely full or overly full each meal... you'll live longer.

i believe there is also a curve for exercise. of course no exercise will make you live a shorter life. but too much exercise can be detrimental as well (i think it actually matters more on the type of exercise). if i remember weightlifting stresses the body to an extent that may shorten your life expectancy. however running a few miles a week is defnitely favorable. it may depend on how beneficial the exercise is to your heart?

anybody have anymore insight on this? i remember learning these theories in a class i took freshman year.... cant seem to find any sources online.

I believe it is called a calorie-restrictive, optimal nutrition diet. The thought behind it being that if you eat lots of high-calorie, low nutrition foods you are releasing a lot of reactive oxygen species into your body which cause damage to your body. If you eat the exact number of calories you need and get all the nutrients you need you will not be doing extraneous damage. This is different than diets where you eat less calories but are starving your body of all of its necessary nutrients.

In terms of exercising, really excessive and over-exerting exercise can be bad in that it damages ligaments and tissues. When you are older this can lead to lots of arthritic problems (knees, elbows, shoulders especially). I have seen lots of 30-40 year old marathoners and soccer players that have terrible pains in their joints from all the exercise wearing away the cushioning.

 

[BuckerPark]

So I took this class called "The Biology of Aging". Here are the highlights I remember:

1. Some research shows that women live longer, in part, because estrogen exerts a protective cardiovascular effect that decreases the incidence of stroke and heart attack.

2. Free radicals play a big role in aging. So decrease the free radicals (in theory) you won't age (as fast).

a. Diet/Metabolism is a source of free radicals. Calorie restriction (eating less--and again, this is theory) will limit the opportunities for these to be made.​

b. Exersice is another source of free-radicals (because of the increased metabolic need this causes.) Still, the benefits outweigh risks of NO exersice.​

3. There is a theory of aging known as "rate-of-living". It proposes that organisms under greater physical stress will age faster (eg. physicians?). This was disproven.

4. As with most things, there are tradeoffs. While calorie restriction will limit the metabolic production of free-radicals, too much will inhibit the DNA repair mechanisms that help keep the body from aging. Striking the balance is key to maintaining youth.

Take 'em or leave 'em.

 

[zimmie256]

I believe it is called a calorie-restrictive, optimal nutrition diet. The thought behind it being that if you eat lots of high-calorie, low nutrition foods you are releasing a lot of reactive oxygen species into your body which cause damage to your body. If you eat the exact number of calories you need and get all the nutrients you need you will not be doing extraneous damage. This is different than diets where you eat less calories but are starving your body of all of its necessary nutrients.

In terms of exercising, really excessive and over-exerting exercise can be bad in that it damages ligaments and tissues. When you are older this can lead to lots of arthritic problems (knees, elbows, shoulders especially). I have seen lots of 30-40 year old marathoners and soccer players that have terrible pains in their joints from all the exercise wearing away the cushioning.

Anything for the beautiful game! I'll deal with the joint pain if I have to....

 

[TWP]

I believe it is called a calorie-restrictive, optimal nutrition diet. The thought behind it being that if you eat lots of high-calorie, low nutrition foods you are releasing a lot of reactive oxygen species into your body which cause damage to your body. If you eat the exact number of calories you need and get all the nutrients you need you will not be doing extraneous damage. This is different than diets where you eat less calories but are starving your body of all of its necessary nutrients.

In terms of exercising, really excessive and over-exerting exercise can be bad in that it damages ligaments and tissues. When you are older this can lead to lots of arthritic problems (knees, elbows, shoulders especially). I have seen lots of 30-40 year old marathoners and soccer players that have terrible pains in their joints from all the exercise wearing away the cushioning.

Love this stuff! Exercise Physiology/Biology kid. Without going into too much detail with the calorie restrictive diet...we have to remember that a calorie (Kcal actually) is not a calorie in the eyes of the body. "No kidding you say. Thank you Mr. Obvious" you say. Well, first off all the calorie densities of certain foods (just talking whole foods, none of that processed garbage) are not on par with the actual nutrient densities. Just because you eat a calorie dense food means you are going to be getting the nutrients you need. Some foods will cause a higher level of radical release than others. Some foods if eaten at particular times of the day, depending on activity levels throughout the day and that time in particular, can produce anabolic effects conducive to build muscle and burn fat, but if eaten at other times can actually bust out some new adipose cells. Same foods, just different timing.

In other words good luck eating just the right amount of calories to recieve all the minerals and vitamins you need. Just too dang tough, and you will never know EXACTLY what your body needs especially if your active. Too many variables without enough controls. I'm not saying you should force feed or allow yourself to eat until your stuffed, just don't hinder your body and it's perfomance/adaptability capacities.

Take home: stay active, eat whole foods in moderation, pretty much everything you knew anyway. ha ha ha

 

[VandyXGirl]

Anything for the beautiful game! I'll deal with the joint pain if I have to....

Please don't give up soccer on account of me! That's what orthopaedic surgeons are for anyway

I don't think I would have made it through the summer, though I certainly would have gotten my applications done earlier, if it weren't for the world cup!

 

[ry2thesky]

i was told by an EM physician that full time EM work takes 7yrs off your life -- he says he read this in a research study...

 

[VandyXGirl]

i was told by an EM physician that full time EM work takes 7yrs off your life -- he says he read this in a research study...

Could you provide a bit more information about this research study, perhaps the journal I could find it in, N value, study set up, etc?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

most men will only seek medical care when forced to by their wives.

Third Rule of Emergency Medicine: Any man who comes into emergency room under his own free will (i.e. not because the cops or his wife forced him too) is really sick no matter how well they appear.

 

[deleted87716]

I was told ones by someone that anesthesiologist have a high heart attack risk than normal...must be the pressure...

...or the transrectal Fentanyl patches.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

...or the transrectal Fentanyl patches.

*glares*

 

[deleted87716]

*glares*

Present company excepted, of course!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I'm not an anesthesiologist (obviously) but I was shocked that you said that. Nicely played

 

[bubabugster]

We both decided we'd choose to die of food intake. We figure we'd enjoy it on the way. I told her I may go that way regardless (i do have a SO). HAHA. We should totally start a poll. If you were single, how would you choose to decrease your life expectancy... hmmmm...

Being single isn't that bad! It's people telling us there is nothing to live for that makes us want to croak sooner . On a more serious note: for women physicians, getting married adds to their stress in life, whereas marriage decreases stress for male physician. I read this in some article.. thought I would share. I'm sure there are exceptions to this of course!

 

[deleted87716]

I'm not an anesthesiologist

But you're a gas, nonetheless.

 

[Pansit]

Getting married is the best thing you can do to increase your life expectancy. Married smokers have a higher life expectancy than single non-smokers.

But dont 50% of marriages end in divorce...thereby increasing emotional stress which leads to an increase in physical stress...which leds to a decrease in life expectancy...correct?....It's those marriages that last for a lifetime that works...and those are becoming much more rare these days

 

[Stroganoff]

It's a myth.

Maverick veterinarian Joel Wallach is selling video and audio tapes titled Dead Doctors Don't Lie! proclaiming that physicians have a life expectancy of only 58 years. This sends the message that doctors are so wrongheaded that they themselves live significantly shorter lives than the general population.

It is not clear where Wallach gets his data, but it is a lie. Physicians have long had life expectancies that are longer than the general population. Goodman [1] reviewed reports on physician life expectancies in 1925, 1938-42, 1949-51, and 1971. His study covered the 1971 population of 344,823 physicians, and the deaths of 19,086 from 1969 through 1973. He found that both male and female physicians had greater life expectancy than the general population.

The American Medical Association's Center For Health Care Policy published data on the life expectancies of U.S. medical graduate physicians by specialty in 1988. [2] It showed that the life expectancy of physicians is somewhere between 75 and 88, depending upon the age and gender that one chooses.

Source: http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1996/3-4.html

Click here for more info.

I was gonna cite the baloney in this tape on SDN for years but never got around to recording it to MP3. It somehow arrived at our house when I was a kid (maybe age 10), and it made all the sense in the world then. Totally reduced my childhood dreams of going into medicine. I listened to it again at age 21 or so and about threw up at the amount of stupidity and claims he makes. He's almost (but not quite) as bad as Kevin Trudeau. Wallach creats an us-versus-them mentality by trying to appeal to the "common man" by saying he's some lowly Missourian and all these Haaahhhhvadd Medicine folks are oh-so-wrong! It's hilarious how on the tape label it says something like: "Joel Wallach, BS, ND, DVM, Nobel Prize Nominee" and he totally talks about homeopathic and naturopathic drivel much of the time.

He cites anecdotal evidence of a female physician in her 30's or so collapsing on rounds of a ruptured aortic aneurysm or something and a few other cases to make it seem that docs are dropping left and right.

 

[gary5]

It may be that women live longer than men because women have lower metabolisms. Looking at other species, in general, animals with lower metabolisms have longer life spans.

Regarding marriage, it may not be that marriage itself causes longer longevity. Instead, it may be that people who are genetically healthier tend to get married and stay married. Studies frequently report associations, but an association says nothing about cause and effect.

 

[Nomemory]

...the MCAT took about three years off my life. My first rejection, my first interview and the agonizing wait thereafter have taken *at least* another 5-7 years. If the waiting continues much longer (and I'm sure it will) I should be dead by....last Thursday.

 

[Law2Doc]

It may be that women live longer than men because women have lower metabolisms. Looking at other species, in general, animals with lower metabolisms have longer life spans.

Well, except for tortoises and parrots, not too many other species live particularly long times by comparison. And there are a lot bigger differences between us and such animals than metabolism. Plus thin humans tend to live longer than heavy ones with worse metabolisms.

I'd guess it's more likely estrogen related, or the fact that women store fat in different, safer, places. Or perhaps just the fact that more males are alcoholics, smoke or do other high risk activities?

 

[Pansit]

...the MCAT took about three years off my life. My first rejection, my first interview and the agonizing wait thereafter have taken *at least* another 5-7 years. If the waiting continues much longer (and I'm sure it will) I should be dead by....last Thursday.

I took away about 10 years of my life, my college experience, my twenties experience, chances of a family before 27, Chances of spending time with them afterwards, and financial freedom from debt till I am in my late 30's when I decided to pusue medicine in high school......most of friends will say.."hey at least you will be loaded when your done with med school"...then I must sadly correct them on how that will not be case until I am too old to enjoy it.

 

[Law2Doc]

I took away about 10 years of my life, my college experience, my twenties experience, chances of a family before 27, Chances of spending time with them afterwards, and financial freedom from debt till I am in my late 30's when I decided to pusue medicine in high school......most of friends will say.."hey at least you will be loaded when your done with med school"...then I must sadly correct them on how that will not be case until I am too old to enjoy it.

You should never put off life until a later date. Things don't get easier on this road after college, med school etc. Once you finish med school there is residency, then after residency (if you don't do a fellowship) you are going to be working your way up in or building a practice.

 

[kylek044]

Age is directly correlated to stressing your organs. If you don't over-eat and are reasonable in your energy input/output... you'll live longer. (notice you can still be in good shape and eat a ton and thus have a lower life expectancy)

I'm sure the occasional suprise-TB patient doesn't help a whole lot, either.

 

[deleted103644]

I believe it is called a calorie-restrictive, optimal nutrition diet. The thought behind it being that if you eat lots of high-calorie, low nutrition foods you are releasing a lot of reactive oxygen species into your body which cause damage to your body. If you eat the exact number of calories you need and get all the nutrients you need you will not be doing extraneous damage. This is different than diets where you eat less calories but are starving your body of all of its necessary nutrients.

From my understanding of this research, the problem isn't the nutritive qualities of the food you eat, but your caloric intake itself. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think you would have to go from a daily intake of 2000 kcal per day to either 1200 or 1500 (can't remember exactly) to see the effect. I'd always assumed the effect was analogous to the whole bright flames burn out more quickly idea (since metabolism is essentially controlled oxidation), but recent research has revealed a couple of possible components in the pathway that controls this process. I think the current studies indicate a gene (SIRT2), and a potential inhibitor called reservatrol that results in a phenotype similar to calorie-restricted diets at ridiculously high doses. Not approved for people yet, but the researchers who did the study have started taking the supplement themselves - I'm not sure how much though.

P.S. Obviously you would need to fit your daily nutrition into a fewer number of calories, but that goes without saying.

P.P.S. For the effect of marriage, I believe it goes single men < married men < married women < single women. Not sure what the exact cause is, but my guess would be that for women, married women are more likely to give birth than single women and childbirth has got to have a serious toll on life expectancy.

 

[baylormed]

Because usually doctors don't like to go to the doctor themselves. It's true.