DO falsifies her credentials and signs MD

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lykyamy00

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i was just wondering what you guys thought of this because when i heard if was kind of shocked. i volunteer in the maternity ward and an obgyn who is a DO signs soandso MD on everything. she may actually get in a lot of trouble at the hospital for falsifying her credentials. this makes me really sad that people cant just be proud to be doctors and that the letters at the end of the name mean so much. once the nurses found this one DO who had falsified her credentials, they started going through the charts and found that the DOs actually just sign Dr. soandso, and the MDs do some of both. in my opinion, until great DOs can be proud of their letters, no one is every going to be able to get over whatever stigma there is....... is this common???? do DOs frequently hide what their letters are????
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a lot of hospitals list DOs as MDs in their directory (online and/or physical), a lot also issue name badges/white coats to DOs that say MD on them. are the hospitals guilty of falsifying credentials as well?
 
redrumi said:
a lot of hospitals list DOs as MDs in their directory (online and/or physical), a lot also issue name badges/white coats to DOs that say MD on them. are the hospitals guilty of falsifying credentials as well?
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Yes, they are guilty as well, though I understand why they do it. So many ppl still have no idea what a DO is, and hospitals don't want to have to explain the situation to everyone.

There is 1 DO at the hospital where i volunteer and her nametag says MD.
 
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theone1979 said:
Yes, they are guilty as well, though I understand why they do it. So many ppl still have no idea what a DO is, and hospitals don't want to have to explain the situation to everyone.

There is 1 DO at the hospital where i volunteer and her nametag says MD.
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It actually has nothing to do with explaining what a DO is ... it has to do with the way the hospital computer system codes employees. Staff physicians = MDs to the computer. Any attempt to screw with this would involve goofing with a LOT of crap in the system. Ever tried to get a hospital to do something that will cost them time, money, complicate the system, and give nothing in return? Ain't going to happen.

Additionally, I think you'll notice that most these DOs with MD nametag still have DO on their scrubs, coat, etc ... just think of it as the way the hospital classifies 'physicians.' I've worked in two different systems, one put all docs as ____ MD despite their degree, and the other put MD or DO and just classified physicians as 'physician' on their nametags, in the system, etc.
 
lykyamy00 said:
i was just wondering what you guys thought of this because when i heard if was kind of shocked. i volunteer in the maternity ward and an obgyn who is a DO signs soandso MD on everything. she may actually get in a lot of trouble at the hospital for falsifying her credentials. this makes me really sad that people cant just be proud to be doctors and that the letters at the end of the name mean so much. once the nurses found this one DO who had falsified her credentials, they started going through the charts and found that the DOs actually just sign Dr. soandso, and the MDs do some of both. in my opinion, until great DOs can be proud of their letters, no one is every going to be able to get over whatever stigma there is....... is this common???? do DOs frequently hide what their letters are????
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Questions:

1. Did she, in her own handwriting write 'MD' after her signature? This would seem kind of odd for any doc to do this (actually print their degree title after their signature or incorporate it into their signature)? If so, then it's odd.

or

2. Did she sign on a blank line that had 'MD' at the end of it meaning she was the attending?

or

3. Did she just sign as 'Dr. X?'

I've personally seen both MDs and DOs just have 'Dr' such and such on their coats, I've seen dozens of DOs with MD nametags in hospitals, I've seen DOs sign on the 'attending MD' line hundreds of times, etc, etc. To be honest though, I don't think I've ever actually seen any doc print their degree title after their signature or incorporate it into their signature. Is it possible that (if it's part of her signature) you read it wrong?

Bottom line is that if this is the case, it's odd and unnecessary. However, I also find it odd that L & D nurses have nothing better to do than go through a bunch of irrelevant charts while trying to sort out this 'issue.'
 
I don't know about the physician actually signing her name with MD after it- seems like it would be purposeful (ie one of the many situations described here in other posts) and if it really is just her inability to deal with her chosen path, then well, I'd see that more as just pathetic. She has all the same skills, and a few more in my opinion, than her MD colleagues. If the insecurities run that deep, she chose the wrong profession I think.

But in all seriousness, the mix up occurs so much that I highly doubt she is repeatedly falsifying her credentials. The office I used to volunteer at had two DOs there and most of the documents that got faxed to them from the local ERs and other docs that had referral notes had MD after their name. Why? Because deep down, no one really esems to care about the letters. Heck, even the certified nurse midwife there was listed as a "physician" because she oversaw a lot of patient's complete care in the OB part. She might have her her doctorate in nursing, but even if she didn't, oh well 🙂
 
who cares, she is a physician anyways !

Tell me when DNPs start writing MD with their names. That would be troublesome !
 
GraceEuphoria said:
Heck, even the certified nurse midwife there was listed as a "physician" because she oversaw a lot of patient's complete care in the OB part.
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That's actually not an 'error' I can get behind and ignore. Midwives, like every other midlevel in existence, pushed for equal reimbursements for OB care as that of a board certified OB/GYN and won (anyone who cares can thank the health care reform bill for that one) and now are trying to break down any laws requiring physician supervision. The last thing any of these militant DNP, NP, midwife groups need is for people to mistakenly think they are physicians.
 
Pisiform said:
who cares, she is a physician anyways !

Tell me when DNPs start writing MD with their names. That would be troublesome !
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She didn't write MD after her name; rather, the forms used in the clinic said "Physician: __________" and her name got written in. My point being that a lot of times things like this happen because clinics and hospitals don't want to re write forms (and redo computer systems, as mentioned before). Jag, I'm not saying it's a good thing to have happening, but I just offier it as yet another example of people not nitpicking things like that when it comes to forms and all that.

The real issue at hand is how this physician the OP writes about actually signs her name...or is it just one of these situations we're describing, where someone else's mistake or an outdated form has caused the confusion.
 
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I think it was declared against the rules when a physician group wanted to advertise a recent do member as a MD on their ads. Both the osteopathic and allopathic boards opposed it.

To me, it's not a big deal due to professional equivalency but I don't think it should be allowed if someone is signing their names like that or something. Its just a matter of integrity and not misrepresenting your credentials.
 
lykyamy00 said:
is this common???? do DOs frequently hide what their letters are????
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FWIW, I've seen forms at an academic M.D. mecca with their standard blank forms as "Dr. ________ M.D." and some go out of their way to cross out MD and write in D.O. :laugh:
 
JaggerPlate said:
Questions:

1. Did she, in her own handwriting write 'MD' after her signature? This would seem kind of odd for any doc to do this (actually print their degree title after their signature or incorporate it into their signature)? If so, then it's odd.

or

2. Did she sign on a blank line that had 'MD' at the end of it meaning she was the attending?

or

3. Did she just sign as 'Dr. X?'

I've personally seen both MDs and DOs just have 'Dr' such and such on their coats, I've seen dozens of DOs with MD nametags in hospitals, I've seen DOs sign on the 'attending MD' line hundreds of times, etc, etc. To be honest though, I don't think I've ever actually seen any doc print their degree title after their signature or incorporate it into their signature. Is it possible that (if it's part of her signature) you read it wrong?

Bottom line is that if this is the case, it's odd and unnecessary. However, I also find it odd that L & D nurses have nothing better to do than go through a bunch of irrelevant charts while trying to sort out this 'issue.'
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she did actually write in her own handwriting ______ MD. its not as if the hospital refers to all physicians as MDs. their id tags have their degreed letters on them. i think if it had been just once it could have been a mistake but she did it on all of her charts every time she signed her name it was 'first last MD' and her id badge has DO on it. and its actually the nurses' responsibility to go through the charts of the patients on their service and make sure that things are getting written/ordered/signed/documented. one of the nurses just happened to notice this while writing her progress notes.
 
lykyamy00 said:
she did actually write in her own handwriting ______ MD. its not as if the hospital refers to all physicians as MDs. their id tags have their degreed letters on them. i think if it had been just once it could have been a mistake but she did it on all of her charts every time she signed her name it was 'first last MD' and her id badge has DO on it. and its actually the nurses' responsibility to go through the charts of the patients on their service and make sure that things are getting written/ordered/signed/documented. one of the nurses just happened to notice this while writing her progress notes.
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Thank you for addressing this. Personally, I find this odd and have no idea why she would feel the need to hide her degree. She obviously has a good patient volume, the hospital hired her knowing she is a DO, and it's written on her nametag??? Weird. In a field as lawsuit prone as OB/GYN, I don't know why anyone would pull something like this. Seems like it could give some lawyer a nice little jab to help push things in his/her client's favor. To be honest, I still wouldn't be surprised if there was some explanation for it, but who knows? Let us know if you find anything else out or if the nurses inform an admin or something and talk to the OB.
 
The degrees are legally and professionally equivalent, so I don't see an issue unless there is a state law against it somewhere. I know the law says you cannot act like a physician without a medical license - which requires either degree.

But I'd like to know her intent - maybe she's trying to be helpful and make things simple for ignorant people?

Now, if a nurse really thinks a DO is not a 'real' physician, then maybe s/he should be sent back to nursing school.

BTW they're still calling Richard Jadick, DO (the Hero MD in Newsweek) Richard Jadick, MD on the net. For example:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/448503-followup
 
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lykyamy00 said:
she did actually write in her own handwriting ______ MD. its not as if the hospital refers to all physicians as MDs. their id tags have their degreed letters on them. i think if it had been just once it could have been a mistake but she did it on all of her charts every time she signed her name it was 'first last MD' and her id badge has DO on it. and its actually the nurses' responsibility to go through the charts of the patients on their service and make sure that things are getting written/ordered/signed/documented. one of the nurses just happened to notice this while writing her progress notes.
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I think that is strange. If I do go the DO route, I will certainly be writing that I am a DO, not an MD. I will be proud of my degree.

As an aside, most docs I work with do sign "Name MD/DO" actually writing in the MD or DO.
 
MightyMoose said:
I think that is strange. If I do go the DO route, I will certainly be writing that I am a DO, not an MD. I will be proud of my degree.

As an aside, most docs I work with do sign "Name MD/DO" actually writing in the MD or DO.
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I did this for about a week, then realized I could save about half a second every time I sign my name by excluding it. I'm pretty sure not doing this has given me about 2 minutes of my life back each day.

Seriously, once you're done with school you will realize that you're too busy to care about the whole DO / MD thing.
 
HooahDOc said:
I did this for about a week, then realized I could save about half a second every time I sign my name by excluding it. I'm pretty sure not doing this has given me about 2 minutes of my life back each day.

Seriously, once you're done with school you will realize that you're too busy to care about the whole DO / MD thing.
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Yup. Most of the docs I worked with wouldn't dream of losing precious seconds writing out MD or DO after their name each time. Granted, these are the same guys who could eat an entire meal walking from one side of the ER to the other and definitely knew how to maximize their time. In fact, the only person I've ever seen actually write out the 'MD' was a guy who used to live near me as a kid. He went to medical school in Mexico and INSISTED that everyone called him 'Dr. X,' and wrote 'X, MD' on everything he owned. Like no joke ... basketballs, when he would write his name random places, etc.
 
fourthst said:
The degrees are legally and professionally equivalent, so I don't see an issue unless there is a state law against it somewhere. I know the law says you cannot act like a physician without a medical license - which requires either degree.

But I'd like to know her intent - maybe she's trying to be helpful and make things simple for ignorant people?

Now, if a nurse really thinks a DO is not a 'real' physician, then maybe s/he should be sent back to nursing school.

BTW they're still calling Richard Jadick, DO (the Hero MD in Newsweek) Richard Jadick, MD on the net. For example:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/448503-followup
Click to expand...

From what I remember, there are legal issues when it's done on purpose. Keep in mind though that it is wildly unnecessary. Honestly, if it REALLY bugs you that much ... just use 'Dr. such and such' on everything instead of 'such and such, DO.'
 
JaggerPlate said:
It actually has nothing to do with explaining what a DO is ... it has to do with the way the hospital computer system codes employees. Staff physicians = MDs to the computer. Any attempt to screw with this would involve goofing with a LOT of crap in the system. Ever tried to get a hospital to do something that will cost them time, money, complicate the system, and give nothing in return? Ain't going to happen.

Additionally, I think you'll notice that most these DOs with MD nametag still have DO on their scrubs, coat, etc ... just think of it as the way the hospital classifies 'physicians.' I've worked in two different systems, one put all docs as ____ MD despite their degree, and the other put MD or DO and just classified physicians as 'physician' on their nametags, in the system, etc.
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THIS. Same is true at our local healthsystem
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yup. Most of the docs I worked with wouldn't dream of losing precious seconds writing out MD or DO after their name each time. Granted, these are the same guys who could eat an entire meal walking from one side of the ER to the other and definitely knew how to maximize their time. In fact, the only person I've ever seen actually write out the 'MD' was a guy who used to live near me as a kid. He went to medical school in Mexico and INSISTED that everyone called him 'Dr. X,' and wrote 'X, MD' on everything he owned. Like no joke ... basketballs, when he would write his name random places, etc.
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I'm sure it's different for everyone, but there are quite a few that sign so and so MD/DO. I just find it odd that you would sign with credentials other than your own. I could see it with an MBBS, but not a DO.
 
MightyMoose said:
I'm sure it's different for everyone, but there are quite a few that sign so and so MD/DO. I just find it odd that you would sign with credentials other than your own. I could see it with an MBBS, but not a DO.
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I don't even think MBBS are supposed to use the 'MD' in the states anymore. That what I've heard at least.
 
JaggerPlate said:
I don't even think MBBS are supposed to use the 'MD' in the states anymore. That what I've heard at least.
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Yeah, I saw something about a while back as well. I am not sure if they passed the law, but it seemed to say that you couldn't represent yourself as obtaining a degree that you didn't earn, even if it is equivalent (or thought to be so).
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yup. Most of the docs I worked with wouldn't dream of losing precious seconds writing out MD or DO after their name each time. Granted, these are the same guys who could eat an entire meal walking from one side of the ER to the other and definitely knew how to maximize their time. In fact, the only person I've ever seen actually write out the 'MD' was a guy who used to live near me as a kid. He went to medical school in Mexico and INSISTED that everyone called him 'Dr. X,' and wrote 'X, MD' on everything he owned. Like no joke ... basketballs, when he would write his name random places, etc.
Click to expand...

I have seen plenty of docs write out MD after their name. I don't write DO after my name but I don't think twice about docs who scribble their degree. I'll bet the more crap a doc signs the worse the signature is and the less likely the degree is spelled out though.

My nametag and white coat both say DO although I am all the time receiving junk to sign that does not get the credentials right, and I don't do anything to change it.
 
DoktorB said:
That makes even less sense to me. Why would a foreign degree holder have more of a right to sign with an MD?
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Agreed. Plus, just sign/display whatever degree you have. You're working in a hospital ... you already have the job, there are PLENTY of patients to go around, etc. If you have a DO, sign/use DO when necessary. If you don't want to display it (for whatever reason), don't put it on your scrubs, white coat, etc, but don't purposely sign the wrong degree.
 
My first name badge said "scpod, MD" but I had them change it. The program automatically puts that on name badges for physicians, but you can request they change it. The physician directory still lists me as "MD" though. My paycheck, however, says "scpod, DO" and that's all that really maters. Right?

On a side note, when I write orders with parameters I usually will abbreviate it as "Notify MD for....... blah, blah, blah" because spelling out "physician" takes too much time and the clerks who enter the orders don't have "Notify DO" as a choice in the computer system. They probably wouldn't know what it means anyway.
 
DoktorB said:
That makes even less sense to me. Why would a foreign degree holder have more of a right to sign with an MD?
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What do you mean by "right to sign as an MD?" I should be clear, I think only an MD has a "right" to sign as an MD. I don't think anyone should be signing with a different degree than the one they earned. I was just saying I could see the MBBS signing with an MD because hospitals have historically encouraged them to do so, up until recently. So, it makes more sense to me that they would be signing as a MD.
 
I worked in a military emergency department for a few years, staffed by both MD and DO. The department head, and best doc ive ever seen, was a DO and actually introduced me to the whole philosophy. He was extremely proud of being a DO, and actually saved an acceptance letter from an MD school just so nobody could ever say he wasnt good enough.....

But another DO would repeatedly admit she only went DO because she didnt get into an MD school. She ALWAYS signed charts "Dr. ****", and her lab coat said "Dr. ***, Emergency medicine" while everybody else in the entire hospitals said "John Doe, DO/MD" or whatever they were.

So ive never seen anyone actually falsify their credentials, but I have seen a doc basically try to hide them. Personally, I dont get why people get so caught up in this MD vs DO thing.....a good doctor is a good doctor
 
theone1979 said:
Yes, they are guilty as well, though I understand why they do it. So many ppl still have no idea what a DO is, and hospitals don't want to have to explain the situation to everyone.

There is 1 DO at the hospital where i volunteer and her nametag says MD.
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I know a DO that is teaching emergency medicine at an MD school. He was offered the choice of whether or not he wanted his name tag to say MD or DO....he chose DO
 
As one of about 4 DOs in my teaching hospital, almost everything comes to me with MD on it. I had the ID badge changed. The website lists me as MD. I have asked them to correct it, but that has yet to happen. Even had to return my internship certificate which had the wrong degree printed on it.

I write HO-II. No degree.
 
if that individual completed an ACGME certified residency, then for all intents and purposes, that person is an MD. That person took the USMLE and went into a residency that an MD could have gone into. I personally don't see the problem, as it is just an issue of people accepting the equivalency of the two degrees.
 
If I had a DO, I'd write DO. Seriously, what's so special about MD? I don't care if my letters were ASS as long as I was doing what I wanted and my paycheck was right.
 
FIREitUP said:
if that individual completed an ACGME certified residency, then for all intents and purposes, that person is an MD. That person took the USMLE and went into a residency that an MD could have gone into. I personally don't see the problem, as it is just an issue of people accepting the equivalency of the two degrees.
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This is absolute nonsense.

The degree represents where you graduated from and has nothing to do with residency or any exam.
 
The physician in question should understand that there may be consequences to misstatements.

In New York State if one misrepresents who they are then that may constitute the class A misdemeanor of of Criminal Impersonation.

Likewise written entries misrepresenting credentials may constitute the the of Falsifying Business Records.

In the event of litigation with a patience, dispute with the hospital or dispute with insurance company a physicians sloppiness can come back to bite.
 
schroon said:
The physician in question should understand that there may be consequences to misstatements.

In New York State if one misrepresents who they are then that may constitute the class A misdemeanor of of Criminal Impersonation.

Likewise written entries misrepresenting credentials may constitute the the of Falsifying Business Records.

In the event of litigation with a patience, dispute with the hospital or dispute with insurance company a physicians sloppiness can come back to bite.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know why she would even open herself up to potential legal issues. ESPECIALLY in OB/GYN. I can't think of a field that is sued so heavily, and it seems like something like this would be one more bullet in the lawyer's potential arsenal.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
What's your point?
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Sorry, guess I should have spelled it out for you

1) as others have stated, many hospitals that staff DO's either issue name badges with MD already on it, or they give you a choice

2) just wanted to give an example of a DO that is proud of his/her degree, as opposed to the doc this thread was started about.

just trying to put some positive energy out there....
 
Corpsman Up said:
Sorry, guess I should have spelled it out for you

1) as others have stated, many hospitals that staff DO's either issue name badges with MD already on it, or they give you a choice

2) just wanted to give an example of a DO that is proud of his/her degree, as opposed to the doc this thread was started about.

just trying to put some positive energy out there....
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The last thing I am going to do is get into a long drawn out argument on this subject.

I don't think the anecdote you describes has any point at all.

So a DO chooses to have DO on the nametag instead of MD and this makes him/her proud of their degree?

When I have been asked this question it didn't even cross my mind to put MD (which is obviously fradulent).
 
So what about MBBS "doctors" which is actually "Bachelors of medicine, bachelor of surgery" get MD title when they pass USMLE.
To get a MD title, MBBS candidate have to do 2 more years of specialty (I think).
 
JW08 said:
So what about MBBS "doctors" which is actually "Bachelors of medicine, bachelor of surgery" get MD title when they pass USMLE.
To get a MD title, MBBS candidate have to do 2 more years of specialty (I think).
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lol!
 
The first graduating class of osteopathic physicians was granted MD degrees. Perhaps she graduated from Dr. Still's original school.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yeah, I don't know why she would even open herself up to potential legal issues. ESPECIALLY in OB/GYN. I can't think of a field that is sued so heavily, and it seems like something like this would be one more bullet in the lawyer's potential arsenal.
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Good point, doing such wouldn't be very prudent.
 
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