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DO for Canadians: 2011-2012
Started by UBCvan
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MSU is similar to KCUMB. Azcom is one of the hardest schools to get the I 20 for.
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Yes!!!!
$20,000 cheaper than OOS tuition each year
yeeeeesss congrats!!!!!!!
Canadians are in a different applicant pool, so if your stats are decent and you apply early your chances are good.
Congrats to the two who got accepted! SRC, good luck at your interview! I'd say look for me, but we have an anatomy exam so if you do see me it'll be me tearing out my hair.
Should things not work out during this year's applications I'd complete the pre-reqs and apply the following year.. we'll see though.. lots of time.
Altho I've lived in MI for two years for school purposes I'm still an International Student.
thanks...how's life at western?
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I posted this in another thread..but maybe some of you missed it. I thought you may be interested in the information:
So I got some answers for the question: Are Canadian DO students eligible for AOA residencies? (as a back up, because Canadian residencies are almost impossible to get in and ACGME residency spots are steadily decreasing in the next few years - http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMhpr1107519)
1) AOA Postdoctoral Program - [email protected]
Our standards require graduation from an accredited College of Osteopathic Medicine. There is no requirement regarding citizenship where the standard is met.
Elizabeth Freeman, Asst. Director
Division of Postdoctoral Training
PTRC Secretary
800/621/1773, Ext. 8058
2) MSU-COM: Associate Dean
Thank you for your question. Your question is actually combines a couple of different issues. When you attend and graduate from a college of osteopathic medicine (COM), you earn a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) degree. All osteopathic postdoctoral programs are open to graduates of COMs. The opportunity to train in AOA programs is determined by your degree and not your citizenship. A significant number of DOs are accepted and train in ACGME-accredited programs, that is, allopathic postdoctoral institutions. Thus, your postdoctoral options include both DO and MD programs. Regardless of whether you train in AOA or ACGME programs, the matter of visa status applies equally to all non-USA citizens. Programs involved in sponsoring international candidates accept the fact that a lot of time and paper shuffling is required on the part of the hospital. While it might be easier to select a US citizen over a non-US to avoid the bureaucratic hassle, it has been my experience that the programs are out to select the best qualified candidate. If the leading candidate is a non-US citizen then he/she is selected and the paperwork is part of the process of attracting highly qualified trainees. When it comes to visa issues, the federal rules apply to both osteopathic and allopathic programs in the same way. If you have any follow up questions, feel free to write or call. mark
Mark Cummings, Ph.D.
Associate Dean
Statewide Campus System
A-336 East Fee Hall
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-432-2853 (office)
517-884-6269 (direct)
[email protected]
So I got some answers for the question: Are Canadian DO students eligible for AOA residencies? (as a back up, because Canadian residencies are almost impossible to get in and ACGME residency spots are steadily decreasing in the next few years - http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMhpr1107519)
1) AOA Postdoctoral Program - [email protected]
Our standards require graduation from an accredited College of Osteopathic Medicine. There is no requirement regarding citizenship where the standard is met.
Elizabeth Freeman, Asst. Director
Division of Postdoctoral Training
PTRC Secretary
800/621/1773, Ext. 8058
2) MSU-COM: Associate Dean
Thank you for your question. Your question is actually combines a couple of different issues. When you attend and graduate from a college of osteopathic medicine (COM), you earn a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) degree. All osteopathic postdoctoral programs are open to graduates of COMs. The opportunity to train in AOA programs is determined by your degree and not your citizenship. A significant number of DOs are accepted and train in ACGME-accredited programs, that is, allopathic postdoctoral institutions. Thus, your postdoctoral options include both DO and MD programs. Regardless of whether you train in AOA or ACGME programs, the matter of visa status applies equally to all non-USA citizens. Programs involved in sponsoring international candidates accept the fact that a lot of time and paper shuffling is required on the part of the hospital. While it might be easier to select a US citizen over a non-US to avoid the bureaucratic hassle, it has been my experience that the programs are out to select the best qualified candidate. If the leading candidate is a non-US citizen then he/she is selected and the paperwork is part of the process of attracting highly qualified trainees. When it comes to visa issues, the federal rules apply to both osteopathic and allopathic programs in the same way. If you have any follow up questions, feel free to write or call. mark
Mark Cummings, Ph.D.
Associate Dean
Statewide Campus System
A-336 East Fee Hall
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-432-2853 (office)
517-884-6269 (direct)
[email protected]
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I've been in contact with a resident (R2) who is Canadian (not a dual citizen) and a graduate from NSU. She clarified some of the Visa issues that we would have as Canadians. This is a long post, but I hope it helps. If you have any questions, feel free to post. I'll bunch them up and get more answers from her. Residents in general have pretty crazy schedules, so just be patient =)
About NSU:
Firstly, I think NSU is a great school. Like all schools, it has its pros and cons, but it is established, well-known, in an awesome location and is affiliated with many great clinical sites. I am happy with the education I received here and I think you will have a great experience here.
Since NSU does not have its own teaching hospital, there are about 12-14 clinical tracks throughout Florida, most of which are in Fort Lauderdale or Miami. You are assigned to a track based on a lottery system, and most people do actually get their first or second choice. About 60-70% of my class matched into an ACGME residency, some of which were very competitive. Keep in mind that most ACGME residencies do accept the COMLEX and do not require the USMLE (The COMLEX is the board exam for DOs and is written at the same time frame as the USMLE; Step 1 after 2nd year, Step 2 after 3rd year, Step 3 during residency). Also, as a Canadian DO student, you are considered a US grad and NOT a foreign/international medical grad.
ABOUT RESIDENCY
Once you are accepted to any US school, you have 2 choices: do your residency in the USA or return to Canada. As an osteopathic graduate, you can return to Ontario for residency and are considered in the same stream as Canadian graduates, however, you will have to take the MCCEE licensing exam (in addition to the COMLEX for the USA, USMLE is optional). Up until recently, a DO could only match into Fam Med in Ontario, but it appears that this has changed: http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml. Regardless, it will be very competitive to match into a Canadian residency, and you will likely have to do at least one elective during your 4th year in a Canadian program. Malpractice insurance does become an issue with this, but NSU is willing to cover students who go to Canada for electives.Your other option is staying in the USA.
ABOUT US VISA DURING RESIDENCY
As a medical student, you will be on an F-1 VISA, but once you start residency you will have to change to a work visa: the J1 or H1B.
The J1 is offered everywhere and is easy to get, and DOs are now eligible for this VISA as per the government of Canada (there was some issue with this is the past). The drawback is that once you complete residency, you are required to return to your home country (Canada) for 2 years before coming back to the USA, OR get a J1 waiver which removes that restriction but requires you to work in a rural or underserved area for at least 2 years.
The other visa is the H1B which is valid for 3 years at a time up to a total of 6 years, after which an employer can sponsor you for the green card. However, this visa is becoming more and more difficult to get...very few hospitals offer it and can really limit the residency programs you apply to if this is the only visa you want. Also, you are required to have taken Step 3 before applying for this visa, but you can't take this until you graduate med school. Fortunately, you can work the first year of residency under an extension of student visa called an OPT. This is what I did and am currently on an H1B visa. Very few fellowship programs offer the H1B visa as well, so this is something to consider as well. Maybe you'll get lucky and marry an American! This link from the Canadian Osteopathic Association has more details: http://www.osteopathic.ca/faq.htm.
OTHER QUESTIONS
1. I understand the AOA residencies are quite out of reach for international students (Canadians included). Is this true? Did you apply to any?
-I did not apply to any AOA residencies and I suggest that you do not either if you want to keep the option of practicing in Ontario open. Currently, all provinces only accept DO graduates if they have completed an ACGME accredited residency in the USA. Dually accredited residencies are also accepted. Once you complete your first year of residency, you fill out a form to send to the AOA to get "approval", and then you will take the appropriate board exam once you complete residency.
2. From some of the official stat's I've seen, 70% of DO students who apply for allopathic residencies are accepted. In your experience, how difficult was it to apply for ACGMC/dual accredited residencies as a Canadian student? I would think that residencies will prefer US DO students over Canadian DO students b/c of they do not have to sponsor work VISAs. What is your experience?
If you are ok with getting the J1 visa, then you have no problem. The more desirable H1B visa will limit your options for residency. You will have to do your research in your 3rd year to see what hospitals are offering the H1B sponsorship and apply to those programs. The best thing to set you apart from US MD/DO students would be doing electives there so they get to know you. If the hospital is non-profit, they are not required to pay your visa fees and would therefore be more likely to offer sponsorship since it is not costing them anything. I was lucky enough to have my 3rd year rotations scheduled at a hospital that offered the H1B, so they knew me very well and I liked their program, so it worked out. It also depends on what residency you are applying for. Less competitive residencies such as FM, IM, Peds would be easier than surgery, radiology, derm, etc.
3. Have you met other Canadians students from NSU or other DO schools? If so, what are some of their experiences, in terms of residencies or anything else?
There are a few Canadian students at my school, most of which have their green card or US citizenship. One resident is in Peds and was also lucky enough to match at a program that offered the H1B here in Miami. Another resident actually matched at UofT for pathology, but I think he had some kind of internal connection. In general, many hospitals in big cities in the northeast (NYC, DC, Philly) as well as Chicago have many programs/hospitals that offer H1B sponsorship.
4. In Florida can one train on an educational license right out of school in an ACGME residency or does one have to obtain the prerequisite first year of AOA training first. I recognize one has to complete AOA accredited training for full licensure but can one train in Florida in an ACGME accredited residency without this one year of AOA training?
The answer is YES, one can start training in an ACGME accredited residency, there is just some paperwork that has to be filled out and sent to the AOA: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...lution-42.aspx
The bill is called Resolution 42, as per the above website, a PGY-1 just has to attend an AOA conference or do a presentation in addition to completing the application, however, I have actually called the AOA and inquired and apparently that requirement is no longer needed. I'm still in the process of getting it approved, so I don't know for sure yet, but it is much easier than it was before and can be done. Once it is approved, and you have completed your ACGME training and received your medical licence, you will be eligible to work in Florida".
About NSU:
Firstly, I think NSU is a great school. Like all schools, it has its pros and cons, but it is established, well-known, in an awesome location and is affiliated with many great clinical sites. I am happy with the education I received here and I think you will have a great experience here.
Since NSU does not have its own teaching hospital, there are about 12-14 clinical tracks throughout Florida, most of which are in Fort Lauderdale or Miami. You are assigned to a track based on a lottery system, and most people do actually get their first or second choice. About 60-70% of my class matched into an ACGME residency, some of which were very competitive. Keep in mind that most ACGME residencies do accept the COMLEX and do not require the USMLE (The COMLEX is the board exam for DOs and is written at the same time frame as the USMLE; Step 1 after 2nd year, Step 2 after 3rd year, Step 3 during residency). Also, as a Canadian DO student, you are considered a US grad and NOT a foreign/international medical grad.
ABOUT RESIDENCY
Once you are accepted to any US school, you have 2 choices: do your residency in the USA or return to Canada. As an osteopathic graduate, you can return to Ontario for residency and are considered in the same stream as Canadian graduates, however, you will have to take the MCCEE licensing exam (in addition to the COMLEX for the USA, USMLE is optional). Up until recently, a DO could only match into Fam Med in Ontario, but it appears that this has changed: http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml. Regardless, it will be very competitive to match into a Canadian residency, and you will likely have to do at least one elective during your 4th year in a Canadian program. Malpractice insurance does become an issue with this, but NSU is willing to cover students who go to Canada for electives.Your other option is staying in the USA.
ABOUT US VISA DURING RESIDENCY
As a medical student, you will be on an F-1 VISA, but once you start residency you will have to change to a work visa: the J1 or H1B.
The J1 is offered everywhere and is easy to get, and DOs are now eligible for this VISA as per the government of Canada (there was some issue with this is the past). The drawback is that once you complete residency, you are required to return to your home country (Canada) for 2 years before coming back to the USA, OR get a J1 waiver which removes that restriction but requires you to work in a rural or underserved area for at least 2 years.
The other visa is the H1B which is valid for 3 years at a time up to a total of 6 years, after which an employer can sponsor you for the green card. However, this visa is becoming more and more difficult to get...very few hospitals offer it and can really limit the residency programs you apply to if this is the only visa you want. Also, you are required to have taken Step 3 before applying for this visa, but you can't take this until you graduate med school. Fortunately, you can work the first year of residency under an extension of student visa called an OPT. This is what I did and am currently on an H1B visa. Very few fellowship programs offer the H1B visa as well, so this is something to consider as well. Maybe you'll get lucky and marry an American! This link from the Canadian Osteopathic Association has more details: http://www.osteopathic.ca/faq.htm.
OTHER QUESTIONS
1. I understand the AOA residencies are quite out of reach for international students (Canadians included). Is this true? Did you apply to any?
-I did not apply to any AOA residencies and I suggest that you do not either if you want to keep the option of practicing in Ontario open. Currently, all provinces only accept DO graduates if they have completed an ACGME accredited residency in the USA. Dually accredited residencies are also accepted. Once you complete your first year of residency, you fill out a form to send to the AOA to get "approval", and then you will take the appropriate board exam once you complete residency.
2. From some of the official stat's I've seen, 70% of DO students who apply for allopathic residencies are accepted. In your experience, how difficult was it to apply for ACGMC/dual accredited residencies as a Canadian student? I would think that residencies will prefer US DO students over Canadian DO students b/c of they do not have to sponsor work VISAs. What is your experience?
If you are ok with getting the J1 visa, then you have no problem. The more desirable H1B visa will limit your options for residency. You will have to do your research in your 3rd year to see what hospitals are offering the H1B sponsorship and apply to those programs. The best thing to set you apart from US MD/DO students would be doing electives there so they get to know you. If the hospital is non-profit, they are not required to pay your visa fees and would therefore be more likely to offer sponsorship since it is not costing them anything. I was lucky enough to have my 3rd year rotations scheduled at a hospital that offered the H1B, so they knew me very well and I liked their program, so it worked out. It also depends on what residency you are applying for. Less competitive residencies such as FM, IM, Peds would be easier than surgery, radiology, derm, etc.
3. Have you met other Canadians students from NSU or other DO schools? If so, what are some of their experiences, in terms of residencies or anything else?
There are a few Canadian students at my school, most of which have their green card or US citizenship. One resident is in Peds and was also lucky enough to match at a program that offered the H1B here in Miami. Another resident actually matched at UofT for pathology, but I think he had some kind of internal connection. In general, many hospitals in big cities in the northeast (NYC, DC, Philly) as well as Chicago have many programs/hospitals that offer H1B sponsorship.
4. In Florida can one train on an educational license right out of school in an ACGME residency or does one have to obtain the prerequisite first year of AOA training first. I recognize one has to complete AOA accredited training for full licensure but can one train in Florida in an ACGME accredited residency without this one year of AOA training?
The answer is YES, one can start training in an ACGME accredited residency, there is just some paperwork that has to be filled out and sent to the AOA: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...lution-42.aspx
The bill is called Resolution 42, as per the above website, a PGY-1 just has to attend an AOA conference or do a presentation in addition to completing the application, however, I have actually called the AOA and inquired and apparently that requirement is no longer needed. I'm still in the process of getting it approved, so I don't know for sure yet, but it is much easier than it was before and can be done. Once it is approved, and you have completed your ACGME training and received your medical licence, you will be eligible to work in Florida".
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Thanks for the info! I have confidence that the Dean of MSU would not have started this program without adequate research. I am excited and honoured to be entering the Osteopathic profession next summer!
Thanks Optoed for great info. realy appreciate it.
I'd like to know about our chances of matching into AOA residencies regarding VISA issue (if you don't want to return to Canada). Would all (or most) AOA res. programs still offer J1 visa? how about fellowships? do they all offer the J1?
I'm interested in AOA residencies because I realize that matching into some harder specialties is doable through AOA residencies like gen surg, anes, rad, etc.
thanks again for the info.
I'd like to know about our chances of matching into AOA residencies regarding VISA issue (if you don't want to return to Canada). Would all (or most) AOA res. programs still offer J1 visa? how about fellowships? do they all offer the J1?
I'm interested in AOA residencies because I realize that matching into some harder specialties is doable through AOA residencies like gen surg, anes, rad, etc.
thanks again for the info.
Would a person need to complete an ACGME residency in order to return and practice in Canada? I'm a little confused here. When you graduate from a DO program and complete an ACGME residency, are you able to practice medicine at regular hospitals along with MDs? or do you have to go to some special Osteopathic hospitals/clinics?
I'm asking this because I want to be able to return to Canada to practice and for that I think I would need to do an ACGME residency, correct? And say if I am applying for a job at some hospital in Toronto and there is an MD competing for the same spot, would the chair prefer the MD over a DO if they both specialized in say radiology? or would I be at an advantage because I am a DO and I have "more" practical skills such as OMM, etc...
I'm asking this because I want to be able to return to Canada to practice and for that I think I would need to do an ACGME residency, correct? And say if I am applying for a job at some hospital in Toronto and there is an MD competing for the same spot, would the chair prefer the MD over a DO if they both specialized in say radiology? or would I be at an advantage because I am a DO and I have "more" practical skills such as OMM, etc...
First, please do a search of the forums - most of your questions have been answered MANY times.
As it stands right now, a graduate of an osteopathic med school who chooses to do residency in the US must complete an ACGME residency AND be sure to have equivalent number of years of graduate medical education for the given specialty. From there, you'd be able to compete for jobs with MDs from either Canada or the US,
You'd be able to throw your hat into the ring for any job... whether or not you get hired over the Canadian educated and trained doc, well that's up to the employer.
For the record, I've never seen any radiologist (DO or MD) use OMM - I actualy think that'd be hilarious to see!
As it stands right now, a graduate of an osteopathic med school who chooses to do residency in the US must complete an ACGME residency AND be sure to have equivalent number of years of graduate medical education for the given specialty. From there, you'd be able to compete for jobs with MDs from either Canada or the US,
You'd be able to throw your hat into the ring for any job... whether or not you get hired over the Canadian educated and trained doc, well that's up to the employer.
For the record, I've never seen any radiologist (DO or MD) use OMM - I actualy think that'd be hilarious to see!
Np, glad to be sharing!
It's hard to know our chances for AOA residencies. One of the reasons, as Cbest said in an earliest post, is that many AOA residencies are not familiar with the Visa process at all (not to mention the more desired H1B visas). This is also hinted by the MSU associate dean. So it's more of a bureaucratic red tape than anything. The easier way out? - "The Proposal" anyone?
So although it is technically possible...I have yet to see a Canadian matched with AOA residencies. It's like those schools that said they would accept international students and they play the silence game on you (hint hint, William Carey & VCOM. Makes you appreciate the schools that made the rules clear cut in the first place).
Current Canadian DO students, pleaaasee post if you know Canadians (non-dual citizens/non greencard holders) who's been accepted into an AOA residency! It's comforting to know that we have a safety net and that we're not putting ourselves at the risk of the 30% unmatched ACGME residencies.
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Please, please remember that if you want to return to Canada, you must have an ACGME approved residency. I can't say it enough. The J-1 visa will require you to return to Canada which is good for the profession in Canada, but not for you if you do the AOA residency as you won't be able to license here in spite of the J-1 requirement. Puts you in a Catch 22 situation. With respect to the 30% that don't match ACGME, remember that doesn't mean you can't. Often these non-matches have not left a fail safe spot. You just have to play smart. There is no reason you could not match ACGME. Some programs may be competitive and as such if you think you have no choice but to go AOA for these, then be prepared to ensure that you will be eligible to stay in the U.S.. Also remember the AOA match is before the ACGME match each year and as such if you elect to go the AOA match, once matched AOA, you are automatically thrown out of the ACGME match. It is the risk you must consider, as any D.O. graduate does when they apply for allopathic residencies. The real answer is to work hard, do your due diligence, and be strategic. You can become what you want; you just have to work hard for it.
Hey, Congratz on MSU! Any news from Western yet? What are you leaning towards?
Thank you Cando for clarifying some confusions!
I just want to add that the there are many ACGME residencies that accept internationals but program preference/policy do change from year to year. They may accept internationals this year and may not accept next year! so It's better to do your research about residency programs during the 3rd year while you are on rotations and set up your fourth year electives at the hospital that sponsor international students. For now, most of us should be worried about doing good in med school and USMLE/COMLEX.
here's the link to it:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/266083746765623/?id=266149260092405¬if_t=group_activity
https://www.facebook.com/groups/266083746765623/?id=266149260092405¬if_t=group_activity
thank you! well I'm waiting for an interview, I got complete last week.
I have an interview at kcumb on the 19th, but I'm leaning more towards MSU.
Hi UBCVan,
Do you know how to sticky the posts by Optoed and Cando above? Maybe we can bring that over toour facebook page.
The VISA thing is quite a tricky process. Maybe we should do a flowchart of what to do for those who wants to work in the US or Canada.
Do you know how to sticky the posts by Optoed and Cando above? Maybe we can bring that over toour facebook page.
The VISA thing is quite a tricky process. Maybe we should do a flowchart of what to do for those who wants to work in the US or Canada.
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For those that want stay in the US -- they need to get a one year OPT and then apply for H1b. A j1 will be fine for those wanting to go back to Canada.
I think that you will need to ask a moderator or a donor of SDN. But I'll look into it.
Also I don't think you can sticky a single post. you must sticky the whole thread. not 100% though.
That's a good one from our dentist. There are just sooo many freaking VISA types with the US.
The info comes in bits and pieces. I think we need to compile them together and make a guide for ourselves and future prospective Canadian DO students.
Yes?
The info comes in bits and pieces. I think we need to compile them together and make a guide for ourselves and future prospective Canadian DO students.
Yes?
I did a lot of research on this in the past as I did my dds in the us. Dentistry is much easier to stay in the US because all you need is a TN work visa that can be given to you at the port of entry.
Personally, I will be looking for an H1b supporter because I'd like the option to stay in the US -- either that or get married in the next 4 years.😍
What's OPT?
OPT stand for "optional practical training". OPT allows one year of additional training in US for any international student. It's very easy process so most international uses the OPT for the first year of their residency training and then can switch to H1B. H1B is lengthy process so you can start the residency on OPT and switch to H1B in your second year but you need to get accepted to residency that sponsors H1B.
Totally agreed! let's get a pathway going =) I'll work on it after my NSU interview this week..unless someone else wants to get a head start.
Optoed, have you joined the facebook page yet?
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/266083746765623/
Wouldn't it be nice to have a list of hospitals that sponsor H1B VISA? I mean we are Canadians and we will not be familiar with which hospitals are good and which are bad.
No one seems to mention about MCCEE. For anyone who would like to get a residency in Canada after 4 years DO school, when is the earliest we can do this exam? Does anyone know?
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/266083746765623/
Wouldn't it be nice to have a list of hospitals that sponsor H1B VISA? I mean we are Canadians and we will not be familiar with which hospitals are good and which are bad.
No one seems to mention about MCCEE. For anyone who would like to get a residency in Canada after 4 years DO school, when is the earliest we can do this exam? Does anyone know?
Personally, I will be looking for an H1b supporter because I'd like the option to stay in the US -- either that or get married in the next 4 years.😍[/QUOTE]
Haha drg that's my plan too.. I'm just going to marry an American lol. When I last applied to an MD school I met with an admissions lady and we agreed I needed to do one of two things.
1. I needed to increase my MCAT(which I can not do lol) OR
2. I needed to marry an American and become a permanent resident.
Her and I both agreed #2 was the most realistic option haha.
Haha drg that's my plan too.. I'm just going to marry an American lol. When I last applied to an MD school I met with an admissions lady and we agreed I needed to do one of two things.
1. I needed to increase my MCAT(which I can not do lol) OR
2. I needed to marry an American and become a permanent resident.
Her and I both agreed #2 was the most realistic option haha.
yuup, I did =).
Yea, it would be realllly nice to have a list of hospitals that sponsor H1B visas.
I think at the stage of the game we're at right now, it'll be more helpful to know the USMLE scores and ACGME match stats from the schools. There is not a lot of transparency from DO schools...some schools report match lists that indicate DO or MD residencies, others just lump them all together.
The Canadian Osteopathic Association is trying to organize a Canadian student association with the goal of improving osteopathic medicine in Canada. This may have many facets including residency program access, licensure, recognition, improving the ability of more Canadians to be accepted, examination requirements, etc.. We have worked hard to achieve the current status which will benefit all of you, but we need to continue the work. I note that many of you comment about need for change however one has to work toward change to achieve it. To facilitate this process we are trying to obtain one Canadian representative from each school to represent their school and to help start the process of setting vision, goals for the future working as a team of Canadian students toward common goals that you establish. We have Canadian students from New England, touro-NY, Nova , Kansas, Kirksville, Michigan State, Western but would like every school represented. If any of you are interested in representing your school please contact me. the representative from each school will hopefully lead their Canadian colleagues at their respective schools. We will be holding a teleconference on Oct 22 2011 facilitated by the Canadian Osteopathic Association. If any of you have objectives you'd like to see this organization work toward plase post them.
Hi Cando,
I have a few questions about this teleconference. By any chance will it be recorded? If not, will Canadian DO students be able to watch the conference? Any information regarding the conference would be greatly appreciated, as I am sure several students at my school would be interested in watching the discussions. Thank you.
The teleconference will be a phone in conference where we will introduce ourselves. We will start one with representative from each school. This is an inaugural meeting and is really to set the stage for future work. We will have minutes but how that will be disseminated will be up to the students. Objectives will be established. Initially smaller numbers will help this process get a good start with the Canadian student leaders at each instituition then working with their fellow students. How best to do this will be a collaborative approach amongst these student leaders. We don't want to tell the students what to do but hopefully guide the process. This should be an organization to work toward common goals to help facilitate and improve your opportunities in Canada. One can talk on these blogs about changes that need to be made, but one also needs to actively develop these changes. That's where we need the leaders of tomorrow. Again if one has issues that they want discussed then please post them. After this initial meeting we will have a better idea how the students want to work through this. This is a work in progress
Hey guys,
I have been reading through SDN for the past 6 months and have not found much info on SMPs for Canadian applicants. I am leaning towards the 1 year masters in biomedical science at Mississippi College. I have spoken with the Dean of the program and has confirmed that Canadians have attended the program.
Just wondering if there are any Canadian's that have completed a Post Bacc or SMP that have gotten into a DO school and willing to share their experience?
Thanks in advance!
I have been reading through SDN for the past 6 months and have not found much info on SMPs for Canadian applicants. I am leaning towards the 1 year masters in biomedical science at Mississippi College. I have spoken with the Dean of the program and has confirmed that Canadians have attended the program.
Just wondering if there are any Canadian's that have completed a Post Bacc or SMP that have gotten into a DO school and willing to share their experience?
Thanks in advance!
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Regarding one of the questions Cando asked:
"In Florida can one train on an educational license right out of school in an ACGME residency or does one have to obtain the prerequisite first year of AOA training first. I recognize one has to complete AOA accredited training for full licensure but can one train in Florida in an ACGME accredited residency without this one year of AOA training?"
I have some answers from my friend:
"The answer is YES, one can start training in an ACGME accredited residency, there is just some paperwork that has to be filled out and sent to the AOA: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/postdoctoral-training/Pages/resolution-42.aspx
The bill is called Resolution 42, as per the above website, a PGY-1 just has to attend an AOA conference or do a presentation in addition to completing the application, however, I have actually called the AOA and inquired and apparently that requirement is no longer needed. I'm still in the process of getting it approved, so I don't know for sure yet, but it is much easier than it was before and can be done. Once it is approved, and you have completed your ACGME training and received your medical licence, you will be eligible to work in Florida".
"In Florida can one train on an educational license right out of school in an ACGME residency or does one have to obtain the prerequisite first year of AOA training first. I recognize one has to complete AOA accredited training for full licensure but can one train in Florida in an ACGME accredited residency without this one year of AOA training?"
I have some answers from my friend:
"The answer is YES, one can start training in an ACGME accredited residency, there is just some paperwork that has to be filled out and sent to the AOA: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/postdoctoral-training/Pages/resolution-42.aspx
The bill is called Resolution 42, as per the above website, a PGY-1 just has to attend an AOA conference or do a presentation in addition to completing the application, however, I have actually called the AOA and inquired and apparently that requirement is no longer needed. I'm still in the process of getting it approved, so I don't know for sure yet, but it is much easier than it was before and can be done. Once it is approved, and you have completed your ACGME training and received your medical licence, you will be eligible to work in Florida".
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Regarding the 30% non-matched, strategies are good. It's still an anxiety inducing number, nonetheless. Just wanna share some thoughts on the top of my head to rationalize things. It is gonna be one hell of an investment after all(time + money).
- The NRMP pooled from all the different schools & different regions. averages are only averages...
- matching rate varies for primary care vs. specialties. From the 30%, perhaps some DO applicants aimed for MD specialties that are pretty out of reach..
- from what I've read (and correct me if I'm wrong), ACGME primary care specialties like family medicine should not be too difficult to match into.
Wouldn't it be awesome to have the DO match rate statistic for ACGME family med or internal med residencies? (and fingers crossed that it's higher than 70%)
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- On the other hand, if AOA matches take place before ACGME matches, and that students who match into AOA residencies are automatically pulled out of the ACGME pool --> there is a degree of self-selection, which means that only those who REALLY want to do ACGME go through the matches. Still, only about 70% matches.
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plan B or C
- get married in the next 4 years, as many have already alluded =)
- rematch in the following year
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STEP 1 study buddies, anyone =), LOL...
Basically, winter semester of second year, we'll get on average of a month to study for both COMPLEX and STEP1. Now that's another good question to ask schools - how much time off do you have to study for BOTH boards? Granted that much more are at stake for us than our American counterparts.
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I wouldn't count on getting married in those 4 years.. it'll be the most stressful time in your life thus far 😛 FIVE couples got married in my class last year... THREE ended up failing/repeating first year.. My hunch is that the stress of med school + marriage had something to do with it.. Also, people get divorced during med school all the time due to the isolation that you need to not fail lol.. it's a hard life... Some guy in my class said he almost got divorced last year.. Now, if you are a medschool superstar and can handle all the work + a significant other.. more power to you. But for the rest of us mere mortals.. having to repeat a year or failing out completely will certainly put a dent in your plans.
My suggestion? -- even the odds with your US colleagues - they don't have to worry about the H1B visa, or not matching AOA. As Canadians, we must use our own advantages - namely, we can set up elective rotations in our 4th year to CANADIAN med schools - UBC, UofT, UWO, Queen's, Ottawa, NOSM, McMaster 🙂 - first round in 7 schools, this ought to even the odds somewhat I think. 😉
Would this mean to write the COMLEX, Step1 and MCCQE1 all in one summer? (i.e. during that month or so of time you have off?)
lol..I was just joking about getting married. It's plan F.
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