DO for Canadians: 2011-2012

Started by UBCvan
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Question, did anyone get a LOC from TD canada trust? Did you tell them you were a DO? I just got off the phone with my banker, she said their highest levels went through my application, but even though Western U was on their list of accredited schools, they can't give me a loan because of the DO degree...
 
thumbz said:
In case you guys are interested - 4 Canadians matriculated including me in AZCOM this year. My stats were a 3.5 and 31T for those who don't know =).

PS: I haven't met the fourth Canadian yet, there is a chance she is AZPOD. I'm hoping to meet her soon though.
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Any idea how many Canadians applied or were interviewed?
 
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thumbz said:
In case you guys are interested - 4 Canadians matriculated including me in AZCOM this year. My stats were a 3.5 and 31T for those who don't know =).

PS: I haven't met the fourth Canadian yet, there is a chance she is AZPOD. I'm hoping to meet her soon though.
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How do they look at a Canadian without any DO shadowing experience?
 
mashmetoo said:
Question, did anyone get a LOC from TD canada trust? Did you tell them you were a DO? I just got off the phone with my banker, she said their highest levels went through my application, but even though Western U was on their list of accredited schools, they can't give me a loan because of the DO degree...
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I got LOC from TD this year. I had to provide cosigner though- it's really weird.
 
Quester said:
Not sure if this has been posted before, but what is the avg. MCAT score of accepted Canadians?
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For MD schools it is apparently about 33.4 with an SD of 3.5. The average for applicants from Canada is 30 with an SD of 5.1. Looks like applicants with below 30 are not really accepted. Although, that is for the most part the case with American applicants as well (with some exceptions obviously). I am sure you could make a reasonable estimate re: DO schools from this info.

These links are posted elsewhere, but they are very useful so might as well repost:

https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21-mcatgpa-statemat2010.pdf.pdf

https://www.aamc.org/download/161698/data/table20-mcatgpa-state2010-web.pdf.pdf
 
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Hi all. I like the thread for Canadians 🙂 This is my first post so I hope I'm in the right place. So here's my dilemma.

I have taken the MCAT twice (29 and 30) but got 6 in verbal and am retaking for the 3rd time in 2 weeks. I submitted my primary to AMCAS July 21 for about 9 schools. My original plan was to apply to only MD schools this year (3-4 schools with OMSAS or more depending on 3rd MCAT score) and if I don't get in then apply to both MD and DO schools next year after getting my 3rd score. But after reading more about DO, I'm thinking that I might want to do it all at once. The only thing I would like to do is talk to/shadow a DO which I can probably arrange in September/October.

So in short, I'd like to know whether submitting to AACOMAS this week is really late and if I shouldn't bother with it this year to wait and see what happens. If I wait for my August MCAT score release in September, will that be late?

I'm an Ontario resident and did my undergrad in the US. My GPA is 3.72 and I have a lot of extra-curricular activities. Also I'm pursuing a Master's and will be finished in May 2012

Thanks
 
You could always try. Its not really that late. Last year I applied really late, completed in march and still interviewed and was wait listed. As long as you know DO is what you want to do and not just a back up plan, then go ahead and apply. I do know a few schools don't look at the verbal and others do.
 
Hey guys, i was just wondering... for your LOR does it have to be from a DO or it can it be from an MD also? I live in Toronto and am finding it very difficult to find a DO that i can shadow and is willing to write me a LOR.
 
Hope everyone is doing good.. I rec'd 5 secondaries within the last week so I've got a lot of writing to do. Just a piece of advice if anyone is still waiting for secondaries get started on them early because if you're going to get one.. you'll probably get a few all at the same time.

As for the LOR from a DO.. every school has a different requirement. They explain it in the secondary instructions and also on their websites/CIB. Good luck!
 
momosensei said:
Hi all. I like the thread for Canadians 🙂 This is my first post so I hope I'm in the right place. So here's my dilemma.

I have taken the MCAT twice (29 and 30) but got 6 in verbal and am retaking for the 3rd time in 2 weeks. I submitted my primary to AMCAS July 21 for about 9 schools. My original plan was to apply to only MD schools this year (3-4 schools with OMSAS or more depending on 3rd MCAT score) and if I don't get in then apply to both MD and DO schools next year after getting my 3rd score. But after reading more about DO, I'm thinking that I might want to do it all at once. The only thing I would like to do is talk to/shadow a DO which I can probably arrange in September/October.

So in short, I'd like to know whether submitting to AACOMAS this week is really late and if I shouldn't bother with it this year to wait and see what happens. If I wait for my August MCAT score release in September, will that be late?

I'm an Ontario resident and did my undergrad in the US. My GPA is 3.72 and I have a lot of extra-curricular activities. Also I'm pursuing a Master's and will be finished in May 2012

Thanks
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You sound like you have a similar situation to me.. I'm Canadian but did my undergrad in Detroit. I don't think it's too late either.. but like the previous guy mentioned make sure you're doing it for the right reason. We have quite a few DOs in the Detroit area with many specialties (I get the sense you're from South Western Ont).

Good luck!
 
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Hi Guys,

I'm a little confused on the LOR stuff. I'm going to be sending my AACOMAS application to several schools and wanted to know how do I go about asking my references for letters. Do I ask them for several letters, one for each school? or get them to post one reference letter for me using the AACOMAS service available-interfolio?
 
CGBI88 said:
Hi Guys,

I'm a little confused on the LOR stuff. I'm going to be sending my AACOMAS application to several schools and wanted to know how do I go about asking my references for letters. Do I ask them for several letters, one for each school? or get them to post one reference letter for me using the AACOMAS service available-interfolio?
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You should ask for your referees to upload your letters to Interfolio. Through Interfolio, you can choose which schools they are sent to.
 
CGBI88 said:
Hi Guys,

I'm a little confused on the LOR stuff. I'm going to be sending my AACOMAS application to several schools and wanted to know how do I go about asking my references for letters. Do I ask them for several letters, one for each school? or get them to post one reference letter for me using the AACOMAS service available-interfolio?
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AACOMAS has nothing to do with LORs. You submit your AACOMAS without worrying about LORs. once you do that, then ask your letter writers to each write one letter for all schools, and then they must upload the letter to interfolio.

once in interfolio, you can see the letters (not content-wise), then send whichever letter to whichever school you want to. for 6$ per school.
 
I just received a secondary from PCOM - do you guys think I should withdraw my application and not fill out the secondary? Based on a lot of previous comments, PCOM isn't very Canadian friendly and I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. I find it weird that you can't pay the application fee electronically...
 
ziprasidone1 said:
I just received a secondary from PCOM - do you guys think I should withdraw my application and not fill out the secondary? Based on a lot of previous comments, PCOM isn't very Canadian friendly and I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. I find it weird that you can't pay the application fee electronically...
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Based on what I've read, you should probably save your time/effort/money.
 
If anyone lives in London and wants to meet up, I just moved here.
With regards to PCOM, I think they are pretty regional.
 
i don't intend on spamming :$ just had a q, figured it out myself a minute later😛...
 
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When I applied few years back, I submitted primary by mid october with a lower score than you and still got 5 interviews. Definitely worth a try, you may just need to prioritize several school of interest to avoid wasting money :] Best of luck.

momosensei said:
Hi all. I like the thread for Canadians 🙂 This is my first post so I hope I'm in the right place. So here's my dilemma.

I have taken the MCAT twice (29 and 30) but got 6 in verbal and am retaking for the 3rd time in 2 weeks. I submitted my primary to AMCAS July 21 for about 9 schools. My original plan was to apply to only MD schools this year (3-4 schools with OMSAS or more depending on 3rd MCAT score) and if I don't get in then apply to both MD and DO schools next year after getting my 3rd score. But after reading more about DO, I'm thinking that I might want to do it all at once. The only thing I would like to do is talk to/shadow a DO which I can probably arrange in September/October.

So in short, I'd like to know whether submitting to AACOMAS this week is really late and if I shouldn't bother with it this year to wait and see what happens. If I wait for my August MCAT score release in September, will that be late?

I'm an Ontario resident and did my undergrad in the US. My GPA is 3.72 and I have a lot of extra-curricular activities. Also I'm pursuing a Master's and will be finished in May 2012

Thanks
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Hey Guys! Are there any Canadians which are close to graduating from a DO program that plan on applying for the match up in Canada? For example in Ontario? I'm currently a first year Canadian DO student at the Georgia Campus of PCOM and wanted to know what kind of prep was required to make my way back home (straight out of school if possible).
 
If you haven't, you might wanna contact the ppl at MSU (both students + ppl in administration), since they have the special quota reserved for Canadians.

MedSchoolNoob said:
Hey Guys! Are there any Canadians which are close to graduating from a DO program that plan on applying for the match up in Canada? For example in Ontario? I'm currently a first year Canadian DO student at the Georgia Campus of PCOM and wanted to know what kind of prep was required to make my way back home (straight out of school if possible).
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Well this sucks...

Des Moines University has recently changed its policy regarding international student admission. Effective for the 2012-13 academic year, individuals who are not U.S. citizens nor permanent legal residents will not be eligible for admission to DMU except for the Post-professional Doctor of Physical Therapy program and the Master of Public Health online-only program. The application you have submitted to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine program, therefore, will be closed. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this policy change has caused you.

Please know that Des Moines University will process a refund of your $50 USD supplemental application fee to be returned via your original form of payment. We will also send a check for your cost to apply to DMU through AACOMAS ($32 USD).

If you have questions about DMU’s international student policy, please call 515-271-7498 or email [email protected].

My sincerest apologies,
Jamie Rehmann
 
I'm complete at MSU. Interview offered at AZCOM, KCUMB. Sent an email that LMU DCOM will offer an interview if I accept the international student policy (no big deal - its like Touro's) and overnighted Touro's secondary yesterday. I like all these schools, but I do have a top choice. Praying for some good news in 2 weeks!
 
drgioiadds said:
I'm complete at MSU. Interview offered at AZCOM, KCUMB. Sent an email that LMU DCOM will offer an interview if I accept the international student policy (no big deal - its like Touro's) and overnighted Touro's secondary yesterday. I like all these schools, but I do have a top choice. Praying for some good news in 2 weeks!
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I'm having second thoughts about sending in the secondary for Touro-NY because honestly, I'm not sure if I would be able to adjust to living in Harlem.

I have interviews at NSU, AZCOM, KCUMB, Western, CCOM, and KCOM. I'm going to the first 5. I'm not sure if I will even go to the KCOM interview because I don't know if I will be able to adjust to small-town lifestyle. Good thing that one is in Oct (the rest are in Sept).
 
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ziprasidone1 said:
Well this sucks...

Des Moines University has recently changed its policy regarding international student admission. Effective for the 2012-13 academic year, individuals who are not U.S. citizens nor permanent legal residents will not be eligible for admission to DMU except for the Post-professional Doctor of Physical Therapy program and the Master of Public Health online-only program. The application you have submitted to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine program, therefore, will be closed. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this policy change has caused you.

Please know that Des Moines University will process a refund of your $50 USD supplemental application fee to be returned via your original form of payment. We will also send a check for your cost to apply to DMU through AACOMAS ($32 USD).

If you have questions about DMU’s international student policy, please call 515-271-7498 or email [email protected].

My sincerest apologies,
Jamie Rehmann
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I wouldn't worry too much. Some people on SDN seem to think DMU is "the" top school (which I would rate it middle tier) but I mean its in IOWA.....IOWA!

Yes its one less school for canadians, but there is several other excellent/better schools that still accept us
 
ziprasidone1 said:
I'm having second thoughts about sending in the secondary for Touro-NY because honestly, I'm not sure if I would be able to adjust to living in Harlem.

I have interviews at NSU, AZCOM, KCUMB, Western, CCOM, and KCOM. I'm going to the first 5. I'm not sure if I will even go to the KCOM interview because I don't know if I will be able to adjust to small-town lifestyle. Good thing that one is in Oct (the rest are in Sept).
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Have you ever been to Manhattan in NY? It was a huge difference for me to see (when I interviewed in Dec) but most students live no where near Harlem. Seems like many students live in the Upper West Side and Upper East Side which are too of the wealthiest areas in NYC. You can get to school by the Subway which in my opinion is pretty sweet and efficient

I agree, Harlem is kind of sketchy but its a lot better than people think. WHen people think Harlem, they think of the Harlem of 10 years ago. I had to choose between Touro-NY and my school. I didnt choose Touro but things would have changed for me if I was in your position and got accepted. Since last year Touro has produced its first match list which ended up being VERY impressive for a first class. Also, Touro bought out NYMC (I think thats the name of it) which is an MD school. This means you get more rotation options from my understanding

Obviously its your choice, but if it was me doing it all over again I wouldnt rule out Touro-NY because of the Harlem area
 
Definitely don't send the the secondary to Touro then. The interviewers will pick up on your reluctance to be in NY. That was a large part of my interview last year -- Why Harlem? I loved NYC, the only thing that would be a little difficult is life without a car.
 
Got the DMU email yesterday to. I wish they realized this before I had to ask my DO reference to email the school with more detail about my clinical exposure. At least we get our money back and don't have to fork out 300 000 on Day 1 of med school.
 
drgioiadds said:
Definitely don't send the the secondary to Touro then. The interviewers will pick up on your reluctance to be in NY. That was a large part of my interview last year -- Why Harlem? I loved NYC, the only thing that would be a little difficult is life without a car.
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Sorry but what is the international student policy (im a noob)
 
Evidence of first year living expenses -- ie around 70,000 and they may make you deposit last years tuition.
 
Got the call from Western today. Booked it for Oct 22. Its kind of nice that they do saturday interviews.
 
ziprasidone1 said:
Well this sucks...

Des Moines University has recently changed its policy regarding international student admission. Effective for the 2012-13 academic year, individuals who are not U.S. citizens nor permanent legal residents will not be eligible for admission to DMU except for the Post-professional Doctor of Physical Therapy program and the Master of Public Health online-only program. The application you have submitted to the Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine program, therefore, will be closed. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this policy change has caused you.

Please know that Des Moines University will process a refund of your $50 USD supplemental application fee to be returned via your original form of payment. We will also send a check for your cost to apply to DMU through AACOMAS ($32 USD).

If you have questions about DMU’s international student policy, please call 515-271-7498 or email [email protected].

My sincerest apologies,
Jamie Rehmann
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Hey everyone! looks like interview invites are moving. Congratz and good luck! It unfortunate that one less school for Canadians but I really respect DMU administration for refunding secondary and AACOMAS fee.

drgioiadds said:
Got the call from Western today. Booked it for Oct 22. Its kind of nice that they do saturday interviews.
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congratz buddy. you are on roll this year. did you interview @ western last year?
 
ziprasidone1 said:
I'm having second thoughts about sending in the secondary for Touro-NY because honestly, I'm not sure if I would be able to adjust to living in Harlem.

I have interviews at NSU, AZCOM, KCUMB, Western, CCOM, and KCOM. I'm going to the first 5. I'm not sure if I will even go to the KCOM interview because I don't know if I will be able to adjust to small-town lifestyle. Good thing that one is in Oct (the rest are in Sept).
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congratz on interview invites! As drc said, I would not rule out Touro based on harlem. Also, the tuition is cheaper compared to many other DO schools and the match list of first year matriculating class was impressive too.
 
Did not interview there last year. I didn't know they accepted Canadians until coming to this thread.

Thanks!
 
Hey guys,

I just wanted to share some info since we are still considered the pioneers/guinea pigs(depending on how you see it) of the DO route.

One of the SDNers kindly brought into my attention that as international students, AOA residencies are pretty much out of reach http://www.premed101.com/forums/showpost.php?p=595305&postcount=198 (even though I would trust Mashmetoo's words, but it's still good to have confirmation from AOA).

That leaves us ACGME/dualy accredited residencies. So when you're considering specific schools, it's good to take into consideration the match stats for these residencies. If anyone has pertinent info that they'd like to share, it'll be awesome (**hint hint current Canadian DO students!!)

Here's some useful data from The National Resident Matching Program. From what I read, they are the coordinating body of ACGME residencies. http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf
(Table 4 shows 40% match rate for Non-US IMG vs 70% match rate for DO students). In reality, I think the number is a little lower than 70% for International DO students.
 
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Optoed said:
Hey guys,

I just wanted to share some info since we are still considered the pioneers/guinea pigs(depending on how you see it) of the DO route.

One of the SDNers kindly brought into my attention that as international students, AOA residencies are pretty much out of reach http://www.premed101.com/forums/show...&postcount=198 (even though I would trust Mashmetoo's words, but it's still good to have confirmation from AOA).

That leaves us ACGME/dualy accredited residencies. So when you're considering specific schools, it's good to take into consideration the match stats for these residencies. If anyone has pertinent info that they'd like to share, it'll be awesome (**hint hint current Canadian DO students!!)

Here's some useful data from The National Resident Matching Program. From what I read, they are the coordinating body of ACGME residencies. http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf
(Table 4 shows 40% match rate for Non-US IMG vs 70% match rate for DO students). In reality, I think the number is a little lower than 70% for International DO students.
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your premed101 link don work

ps. what do you mean AOA residencies are out of reach. it's tough for internationals to land AOA residencies OR you're referring to the fact that Canada doesn't recognize AOA residencies yet?

which one do you mean?
 
Pioneers/Guinea pigs? What are you talking about? I shadowed a DO in Canada who went to school like 30 years ago. DOs are just rare in Canada its not like we are completely gambling our future on some hope that things will change. Everything is already in place to come back and practice (unless u live in a random province, any of the big ones are fine).... so ya im not exactly sure what your view is on the DO route, but I suggest you do more research before you commit. You seem unsure about the DO route. Maybe I am reading what you said incorrectly though.
 
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Congrats to my Canadian brothers and sisters for all the early interviews. Seems like a lot of Canadians are seriously considering the option of osteopathic medicine. Do most of you plan to end up back in Canada in the long term or is staying in the US a reasonable option for you? If so, what is your plan with regards to immigration? I wonder if people who applied in previous years can comment on whether it seems like more Canadians are applying and getting early interviews than in years past.
 
UBCvan said:
your premed101 link don work

ps. what do you mean AOA residencies are out of reach. it's tough for internationals to land AOA residencies OR you're referring to the fact that Canada doesn't recognize AOA residencies yet?

which one do you mean?
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http://www.premed101.com/forums/showpost.php?p=595305&postcount=198
here it is. I fixed it in the previous post too. Not sure why SDN condenses those URLs, lemme know if you still can't open it.

I think it's both - that AOA residencies are not keen on sponsoring visas for international students (according to the post, I'm writing to the AOA to get verification) AND that AOA residencies are NOT recognized in Canada, at least in Ontario.

See pathway 3 US or Canadian Medical Degree or "Doctor of Osteopathy" Degree with US Postgraduate Training and Certification - "successfully completed a residency program accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education" - that's ACGME residencies (including dualy accredited ones, but not residences that are ONLY given through the AOA).
http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352#pathway3
 
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drctother said:
Pioneers/Guinea pigs? What are you talking about? I shadowed a DO in Canada who went to school like 30 years ago. DOs are just rare in Canada its not like we are completely gambling our future on some hope that things will change. Everything is already in place to come back and practice (unless u live in a random province, any of the big ones are fine).... so ya im not exactly sure what your view is on the DO route, but I suggest you do more research before you commit. You seem unsure about the DO route. Maybe I am reading what you said incorrectly though.

Regarding the AOA, i recently talked to a Canadian DO (in the US) who has spent his whole life fighting for the rights of DO in Canada. He ensured me that things will only get better and AOA may be a fine option by the time I graduate (4 years from now) as well as the COMLEX alone (so not writing the USMLE). However this is just his word. Regardless im still going to write the USMLE and apply to ACGME residencies personally
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Well, this is part of my research - to make sure that I know all the potential limitations and to avoid any surprises down the road. I have shadowed a DO in Ontario, so I know it is possible and that things are probably getting better. Organized medicine in Canada has substantial political/negotiation power over other groups of health care providers. Until we get more DOs in Canada, changes will be progressive but slow to come.

Since 15+ DO schools are actively accepting International students, one would hope that they have created resources to accommodation these students' residency needs. (it's not the case for Australian schools, for instance. Canadians going there are considered IMG when returning to Canada, while most of the Australian residencies spots are reserved for Australian citizens.)

As for certainty - I've already invested a substantial amount of money and time doing my applications. so rest assured that I'm only hoping for the best. I only posted with the best intention for everyone to be fully aware of the journey they are embarking and to encourage knowledge sharing.
 
I've spoken to two Canadians along the road who are both doing ACGME residencies currently on H1B visas. Trust me, for Canadians it's different, we aren't "really" international students. I mean, look at our F1 visa. We walk across the border and get a stamp. Other students have to do interviews with immigration officials, do check ins, all that stuff. For residencies, it's the same thing. "Oh, you're a Canadian citizen who attended a US program? Sure, we will sponsor you on an H1B visa". For other internationals, it is a lot more difficult. And it's even more difficult for Canadians who didn't do their degree in the USA. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part based on an n=2 sample size, but really, if there were a bunch of Canadian DO's who couldn't get a residency spot don't you think they'd pop up on SDN?

I could be sticking my foot in my mouth totally here, but it is my belief that worrying about getting a residency visa isn't a problem, just make sure you get a good Step 1 score so you're competitive. In 3.5 years when I'm applying for residencies, I'll make sure I seek out you guys and let you all know how it's going.
 
thumbz said:
I've spoken to two Canadians along the road who are both doing ACGME residencies currently on H1B visas. Trust me, for Canadians it's different, we aren't "really" international students. I mean, look at our F1 visa. We walk across the border and get a stamp. Other students have to do interviews with immigration officials, do check ins, all that stuff. For residencies, it's the same thing. "Oh, you're a Canadian citizen who attended a US program? Sure, we will sponsor you on an H1B visa". For other internationals, it is a lot more difficult. And it's even more difficult for Canadians who didn't do their degree in the USA. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part based on an n=2 sample size, but really, if there were a bunch of Canadian DO's who couldn't get a residency spot don't you think they'd pop up on SDN?

I could be sticking my foot in my mouth totally here, but it is my belief that worrying about getting a residency visa isn't a problem, just make sure you get a good Step 1 score so you're competitive. In 3.5 years when I'm applying for residencies, I'll make sure I seek out you guys and let you all know how it's going.
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awesome, thanks for sharing! That's definitely encouraging, even with n=2. now if you/your friend have insight for the ACGME match stats for any specific schools, that'll be really appreciated!
 
Going to school in the US definitely has its advantages. I feel lucky to have done my DDS degree in the US. I was able to become licensed in both the US and Canada. I really don't think Canadian DO's will have problems matching into residencies. MSU is accepting a large % of Canadians to their class over the next few years and I don't think they would do this if residency matching would be a problem.
 
thumbz said:
I've spoken to two Canadians along the road who are both doing ACGME residencies currently on H1B visas. Trust me, for Canadians it's different, we aren't "really" international students. I mean, look at our F1 visa. We walk across the border and get a stamp. Other students have to do interviews with immigration officials, do check ins, all that stuff. For residencies, it's the same thing. "Oh, you're a Canadian citizen who attended a US program? Sure, we will sponsor you on an H1B visa". For other internationals, it is a lot more difficult. And it's even more difficult for Canadians who didn't do their degree in the USA. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part based on an n=2 sample size, but really, if there were a bunch of Canadian DO's who couldn't get a residency spot don't you think they'd pop up on SDN?

I could be sticking my foot in my mouth totally here, but it is my belief that worrying about getting a residency visa isn't a problem, just make sure you get a good Step 1 score so you're competitive. In 3.5 years when I'm applying for residencies, I'll make sure I seek out you guys and let you all know how it's going.
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👍
 
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