Do I have a chance?

[Hain Adam]

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[irish80122]

What do you hope to study by the way? I just ask because I am applying to some of the same programs.

I think you have a shot. Anyone who is coming out of undergrad trying to go straight through is going to have a struggle, especially with some of the top programs. You may want to add a few less-selective programs (I know, they don't really exist).

That being said, you have a lot going for you. You have good GRE scores (more balanced than mine, which I am jealous about) and a good GPA and I believe you will get some interviews. Once you have those, it just depends on if you impress or not. I think you have just about as good of a shot as anyone coming out of undergrad. While it would be nice to have publications, I know people who have gotten in without...they are just hard to get as an undergrad.

Anyways, take all of this with a huge grain of salt as I have basically the same exact situation (even the same GPA and GRE scores) and I am just praying as well. Good luck!

 

[Hain Adam]

If I can't get accepted into any of these schools i'll go for a masters degree without losing any time.

 

[irish80122]

Either that or do paid research for two years. I know this is not an appealing option, but it may be the best option. That is at least what I have heard.

 

[Hain Adam]

Either that or do paid research for two years. I know this is not an appealing option, but it may be the best option. That is at least what I have heard.

That's what my roommate does, but he's in the field of genetics. I wish clinical phds weren't as competetive as they are. Sadly even an excellent GPA and good GRE scores may not be good enough to get into any school.

 

[Hain Adam]

MASTERS' DEGREE BEFORE PH.D.: HELP OR HINDRANCE?
Competition for doctoral programs is intense, and each year many well-qualified students (who quite likely would succeed in graduate school) do not get admitted into Ph.D. programs. They may have excellent, but not exceptional qualifications. One alternative for such students is to obtain a master's degree from a non-Ph.D. granting institution in general psychology and then to apply to a specialized doctoral program. A master's program will give the student an opportunity to strengthen credentials (particularly in research and applied areas), to demonstrate an ability to do graduate level work, and to work closely with a faculty member.

The merits of this strategy have been debated in recent years in the American Psychologist. Howell and Murdock (1972) and Saccuzzo and Schulte (1978) conclude from surveys of graduate schools that a terminal master's degree may actually decrease a student's chances for a doctoral program. Annis, Tucker, and Baker (1978) agree that this is especially true for students seeking programs in clinical and community psychology. On the other hand, students with master's degrees are generally regarded as more qualified than bachelor-level applicants and more likely to complete the doctorate (Annis, et al., 1978). Moreover, although about 20% of doctoral students in clinical and nonclinical programs enter with master's degrees (Saccuzzo & Schulte, 1978), very high rates of acceptance (80-100%) into doctoral programs from master's programs have been reported (Mealiea, 1973a, 1973b; Ward & Ziegler, 1973). It should be noted that each year there are fewer master's level than bachelor's level applicants for doctoral programs. Therefore, although the acceptance rate for those with master's degrees may be higher, they still constitute a minority of doctoral students. The most recent research on this debate (Perlman & Dehart, 1985) supports the value of master's level training.

Prospective graduate students are advised to discuss this issue with several faculty members. A pragmatic strategy is to select several master's programs which have good records of sending their graduates on to doctoral programs. The student should then apply to both master's and doctoral programs at the same time--avoiding last minute applications to master's programs in April or May if not accepted into a doctoral program. The May issue of the A.P.A. Monitor, available from any staff member, lists the institutions that still have openings in graduate programs for the Fall. In addition, the December issue each year of the American Psychologist lists the A.P.A. approved doctoral programs in clinical, counseling, and school psychology.

References
Annis, L.V., Tucker, G.H., & Baker, D.A. (1978). What happens to PhD program applicants who have masters degrees? American Psychologist, 33, 703-705.

Howell, R.J., & Murdock, M.L. (1972). The questionable value of a master's degree for the PhD-pursuing student. American Psychologist, 27, 647-651.

Mealiea, W.L., Jr. (1973a). MA and/or nothing? Comment on Howell and Murdock's article. American Psychologist, 28, 357.

Mealiea, W.L., Jr. (1973b). The unquestionable value of a master's degree for a PhD-pursuing student. American Psychologist, 28, 938-939.

Perlman, B., & Dehart, P. (1985). The master's-level clinician: Application and admissions to doctoral programs. Teaching of Psychology, 12, 67-71.

Saccuzzo, D.P., & Schulte, R.H. (1978). The value of a terminal master's degree for PhD-pursuing students in psychology. American Psychologist, 33, 862-864.

Ward, D., & Ziegler, D.J. (1973). On Howell and Murdock. American Psychologist, 28, 91.

 

[irish80122]

I certainly agree! The only solution I have found is to apply to some less-selective programs that also meet your research needs, but even those are selective 🙁. Oh well, I guess we just have to keep our fingers crossed and hope! Good luck to you. No matter what, please keep in touch, I would love to hear how you make out. I will definitely be on the board so everyone will know, for better or for worse...

 

[psypsypsy]

As a current clinical PhD student, I'd say you have a decent shot at getting in, but there are never any guarantees in these schools. You have a good GRE and GPA, which should get you through the initial round. In terms of letter of recommendations, don't worry about world-famous psychologists. Very few actually have them, and not from multiple people. In truth, people want letters of recommendations from professors/people who know them and can attest to their skills and qualities. Lots of famous ones is nice and all, but only if they actually know you well and can write more than a cookie-cutter letter.

I would guess it comes down to fit, your personal statement and your level of experience. The only real negative is coming right out of undergrad, but I know a number of students who did get in right out. You're applying to a lot of schools though, and if you don't get in, you definitely have a great shot if you do some research and apply again.