DO match results 2012

[scotchtapetest]

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The actual 2012 AOA PARTICIPATION rates are (i.e. Percent of students participating in the AOA match from each COM): EXCLUDES Military Match

MSUCOM - 79.82%
LECOM - 60.64%
OSUCOM - 59.38%
PNWUCOM - 59.15%
LMU-DCOM - 58.17%
RVUCOM - 57.36%
PCOM - 56.12%
WVSOM - 55.08%
NSUCOM - 54.17%
UP-KYCOM - 52.78%
MWU-CCOM - 51.35%
LECOM-BRAD - 50.93%
KCOM - 48.82%
OUCOM - 47.15%
NYCOM - 47.09%
TOUROCOM - 46.38%
GA-PCOM - 46.07%
UMDNJSOM - 42.86%
TUCOM-CA - 41.94%
TUNCOM - 41.72%
VCOM - 39.60%
ATSU-SOMA - 38.10%
KCUMBCOM - 37.91%
WESTUCOMP - 36.64%
DMUCOM - 33.90%
MWU-AZCOM - 33.47%
UNECOM - 31.11%
UNTHSCTCOM - 19.32%


Calculation: [(Matched students + Unmatched students - Military) / (Total # of students)] * 100%
Sample: MSUCOM = [(167 + 21 - 6) / (228)] * 100% = 79.82%

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

 

[Iliketoytles]

So here's a [dumb] question... wouldn't it be less risky to rotate at a hospital with a competitive specialty program, but in a less popular location?

 

[I4GOTMYWATCHINU]

So here's a [dumb] question... wouldn't it be less risky to rotate at a hospital with a competitive specialty program, but in a less popular location?

I imagine that kind of gamesmanship might work with some types of specialties in the ACGME world (rotating for ENT in Kansas as opposed to New York City) but probably not so much in the AOA world seeing as most competitive residencies are almost exclusively in one place (ortho = Detroit )

 

[preDoGuy24]

I imagine that kind of gamesmanship might work with some types of specialties in the ACGME world (rotating for ENT in Kansas as opposed to New York City) but probably not so much in the AOA world seeing as most competitive residencies are almost exclusively in one place (ortho = Detroit )

Not really, LOTS in PA, and New York (Las vegas, California, Chicago)...tons in Michigan though so I get what you are saying.

 

[ellinopedo182]

so far...

WESTERN COMP

2 Emergency Medicine
6 Internal Medicine
12 Family Medicine
3 OB/Gyn
3 Orthopedic Surgery
2 General Surgery
2 Neuro Surgery
2 Radiology
2 Urology


more to come hopefully

 

[ManBroDude]

So here's a dilemma I cooked up: What if I wanted to do some super-competitive residency like ophtho since I was a kid and there's hypothetically only 10 residency positions open. Traditionally, these programs only rank students who have rotated through there and happened to like them, too. Now say I was a 4th year at a school that had very limited flexibility in allowing me to rotate away during my 3rd and 4th years, and I could only rotate to 2 ophtho programs. Somehow, they didn't like me, so they didn't rank me. The other 6 spots are now gone because I didn't have the time or the school didn't give us enough freedom to rotate away more. I then don't match at all in ophtho, even in the scramble, and my dreams are dashed. I wasn't able to rotate through any of the allopathic-only ophtho residencies, either. What then?

Is this when you go into a traditional internship year and try for the match all over again? Could you hypothetically rotate through all the ophtho programs in that year? Aren't you limited to stay in town only?

What's the difference between a traditional rotating internship year and a "transitional year"?

What about being a "super-senior" in your medical school and rotate through some more?

 

[TeamZissou]

So here's a dilemma I cooked up: What if I wanted to do some super-competitive residency like ophtho since I was a kid and there's hypothetically only 10 residency spots.

you take the baller route like the dude from CCOM this year who matched U of Chicago ophtho

 

[nlax30]

I'm confused as to why there are unfilled spots for competitive specialties, bear with me, I'm still learning about the process..but why are there 5 unfilled Diag Rad, 2 Optho, 4 Anesthes, and 7 Neuro?

I mean wouldn't someone applying to optho apply to every single program/seat so why would a program be unfilled? Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't make sense.

I think someone already mentioned it but if the program doesn't rank you then you won't get it. I'm sure though most of those spots will fill during the scramble.

And someone may not necessarily apply to EVERY single program if there was a specific program that they didn't like, felt was sub-par, or was in an area that they would not want to live in.

 

[mbowman]

So it appears 8 out of 10 TCOM students skipped the AOA match. Is this correct? And is there a reason for this?

 

[FuturePharm21]

yeah so at TCOM, do they tell their students to get an allopathic residency and skip AOA because at my school it's the opposite, but people apply to both.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So it appears 8 out of 10 TCOM students skipped the AOA match. Is this correct? And is there a reason for this?

TCOM students are considered for the most part the same as other Texas medical school graduates, they have access to most Texas ACGME programs. Not to mention most programs in Texas are ACGME, why would they go to Michigan if they can stay in Texas?

 

[FuturePharm21]

Where is the list of scrambled positions?

Also, this may be a stupid question, but do ALL of the non-participants match into the allopathic match?

 

[Colodostudent]

Just Recieved this email about the match at RVU

Dear Student Doctors, Faculty, and Staff,

I know that many of you are interested in the match results, with the DO match occurring yesterday. I thought I would pass along the match data that we have to date. The MD match will take place on March 15th, and I will be able to provide full data on the match performance of the class of 2012 at that time. A couple of mile stones we should all be very proud of:

1) In terms of the Statistical Summary by College, Rocky Vista University was in second place among the percentage of students who matched in the AOA match yesterday. Our match rate was 58% match. We were only passed by Michigan State University who had a 73% match rate.

2) In terms of the Military Match, we had the largest percentage of any DO school at 13.2%

Below is a listing of those specialties our students have matched into. Certainly this number will grow, and the variety will increase with the MD match.

Anesthesia 4
Emergency Medicine 8
ENT/Plastics 1
Family Medicine 20
Family Medicine/ EM 1
General Surgery 3
Internal Medicine 22
Internal Medicine/EM 1
Neurology 1
OB/GYN 5
Ortho Surgery 1
Pediatrics 4
Radiology 1
Transitional 13


Congratulations to the class of 2012 for all your accomplishments. Congratulations to all our faculty for your hard work as educators and mentors. Congratulations to all our staff. Without you, this wouldn't happen.

Thanks,

Dr. Bruce Dubin
Acting President and Dean
Rocky Vista University

 

[DocEspana]

I won't blame them for this, but I the stat they decided to use is somewhat misleading. It is literally correct, but the implication is that its the same as what bala posted (where they come in 7th place. Still not bad, but not second). But again, I don't blame them for using the stat they look best on.

 

[Colodostudent]

I won't blame them for this, but I the stat they decided to use is somewhat misleading. It is literally correct, but the implication is that its the same as what bala posted (where they come in 7th place. Still not bad, but not second). But again, I don't blame them for using the stat they look best on.

As I understand it, the AOA came out with this statistic, and published it. Here is the website:

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

I don't think it's misleading at all. If you look at the chart, it says what it says!! The percentage of graduating students who matched in the Osteopathic Match is 58%. In terms of the percentage that matched of those who participated, 7th is really good, especially for a new schools graduating class!!

As a student here, I'm really pleased to see the results were accomplishing!!

 

[Dissected]

As I understand it, the AOA came out with this statistic, and published it. Here is the website:

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

I don't think it's misleading at all. If you look at the chart, it says what it says!! The percentage of graduating students who matched in the Osteopathic Match is 58%. In terms of the percentage that matched of those who participated, 7th is really good, especially for a new schools graduating class!!

As a student here, I'm really pleased to see the results were accomplishing!!

It's misleading, you can't really get around that and I'm glad it has been clarified in this thread. RVU clearly had a good showing for being it's first match no matter how you look at it though, so bravo!

Thanks for sharing that email.

 

[scotchtapetest]

As I understand it, the AOA came out with this statistic, and published it. Here is the website:

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

I don't think it's misleading at all. If you look at the chart, it says what it says!! The percentage of graduating students who matched in the Osteopathic Match is 58%. In terms of the percentage that matched of those who participated, 7th is really good, especially for a new schools graduating class!!

As a student here, I'm really pleased to see the results were accomplishing!!

Not only it's misleading, it's just wrong (IMO) because it includes the military matched but doesn't include the military non-matched; Also the military has nothing to do with the AOA. Therefore, for schools with large military matches (e.g. RVU as per your email), the numbers get inflated and over-ranks those school.

Having said that, coming in as 7th is still not bad! Congratulations to your colleagues!👍

 

[slammer922]

yeah so at TCOM, do they tell their students to get an allopathic residency and skip AOA because at my school it's the opposite, but people apply to both.

So it appears 8 out of 10 TCOM students skipped the AOA match. Is this correct? And is there a reason for this?

Yes it is encouraged to take the usmle but there is no push to skip the AOA match. I think this happens because of tcoms success on the usmle (94% pass rate). Most of our students want primary care spots and our avg usmle is competitive enough to allow us to match well in texas agcme spots.

I'm curious to know why others schools say the opposite. Are you not encouraged to take the usmle?

 

[SoulinNeed]

Where is the list of scrambled positions?

Also, this may be a stupid question, but do ALL of the non-participants match into the allopathic match?

Successfully? Not necessarily. DO applicants have about a 71% match rate in the ACGME match, pre-scramble. Some DO students apply only AOA, some only ACGME, some military, and some not at all. I believe the overall match rate for DO students, pre-scramble, is in the high 80s, early 90s. After scramble, everyone who wants a spot should have one though, with some exceptions here and there.

 

[ManBroDude]

Successfully? Not necessarily. DO applicants have about a 71% match rate in the ACGME match, pre-scramble. Some DO students apply only AOA, some only ACGME, some military, and some not at all. I believe the overall match rate for DO students, pre-scramble, is in the high 80s, early 90s. After scramble, everyone who wants a spot should have one though, with some exceptions here and there.

It is 89.19%, as compiled by HockeyDr09 in this sheet.

 

[ManBroDude]

So here's a dilemma I cooked up: What if I wanted to do some super-competitive residency like ophtho since I was a kid and there's hypothetically only 10 residency positions open. Traditionally, these programs only rank students who have rotated through there and happened to like them, too. Now say I was a 4th year at a school that had very limited flexibility in allowing me to rotate away during my 3rd and 4th years, and I could only rotate to 2 ophtho programs. Somehow, they didn't like me, so they didn't rank me. The other 6 spots are now gone because I didn't have the time or the school didn't give us enough freedom to rotate away more. I then don't match at all in ophtho, even in the scramble, and my dreams are dashed. I wasn't able to rotate through any of the allopathic-only ophtho residencies, either. What then?

Is this when you go into a traditional internship year and try for the match all over again? Could you hypothetically rotate through all the ophtho programs in that year? Aren't you limited to stay in town only?

What's the difference between a traditional rotating internship year and a "transitional year"?

What about being a "super-senior" in your medical school and rotate through some more?

Any help on this one?

 

[CopToEM]

I'll agree with everyone else who is echoing that RVU released data including military match which, truthfully, is not erroneous but perhaps misleading. There is absolutely zero shame in being 7th nationwide, however, so I'm not sure why that was even necessary. I'm sure no ill will was intended and I'm incredibly excited that they've came so far in such a short period of time!

With that said, I never really take match data for what it is until after March 15th and subsequent scramble. So many students are applying for MD residency now and it's hard to get the bigger picture until that data is released.

Going to be an interesting year!!!

 

[RippedRad]

1 unfilled rad was in Garden City because i dont they interviewed generously and shot themselves in the foot. the other 4 are from South Florida, new program that was NOT participating in ERAS but somehow ended in the match.
No could have applied for those 4 spots since it was NOT on ERAS

 

[manubrium]

We are all but discouraged to take it. They warn us that 'every year students fail and wish they hadn't taken it' and tell us all the negatives. They don't mention any of the benefits to us at all, we have to do our own research which results in a lot of people not taking it. Now a lot of high performers in our class are wishing they had taken it..it's a shame, really. I think a lot of schools are this way.

yes it's a shame..at tcom everyone is "strongly urged/encouraged" to take the usmle, we even heard it from our president during orientation. btw i think about half end up in specialties.

 

[DocEspana]

yes it's a shame..at tcom everyone is "strongly urged/encouraged" to take the usmle, we even heard it from our president during orientation. btw i think about half end up in specialties.

Firstly I love the sentiment of the whole post. We really should be encouraged to take the usmle.

Secondly, I still sort of find it funny that the bolder sentence was stated. Idk if numbers have changed recently, but 50% specialties is the national average. Not even saying it to undercut, its just a funny phrase to read when you know that stat.

 

[DrWily]

During the AZCOM interview presentation, the assistant dean was showing us numbers from comlex, blah blah blah, but he also presented USMLE stats for AZCOM students. He was really proud about the pass rate and said that they encourage students to take the USMLE. I thought that was interesting because the LECOM-E presentation (the only other interview I attended) had no such data.

 

[SoulinNeed]

It is 89.19%, as compiled by HockeyDr09 in this sheet.

It may be a bit higher than that as it doesn't seem to include the military match, and it seems to include total DO grads, which may include people who simply didn't attempt to match anywhere. Either way, it shouldn't be too big of a jump.

 

[dntke1518]

During the AZCOM interview presentation, the assistant dean was showing us numbers from comlex, blah blah blah, but he also presented USMLE stats for AZCOM students. He was really proud about the pass rate and said that they encourage students to take the USMLE. I thought that was interesting because the LECOM-E presentation (the only other interview I attended) had no such data.

DMU presented their USMLE scores and seemed proud of their pass rates, so they they aren't anti-USMLE, I am sure doktorb can confirm. KCOM also did as well.

 

[Iliketoytles]

They present the rates and may be proud of them, but they definitely give off an attitude of antipathy towards students taking it when they "advise us" on board exams 2nd year. The fact that students perform well has nothing to do with the clinical affairs dept. encouraging us to prepare for or take it, unfortunately. That is all our own doing - we did our own research on the matter and realized how important it was. Pretty much everyone in my class I know who took it (almost all of whom did very well) feels the same way. I could go on and rant/rave but things probably won't change much so, with that:

/rant

I will clarify: DMU prepares us well for boards, in my opinion better than a lot of places, but they make us feel like the USMLE is only necessary for ROADS specialties. This is simply not the case, so do your own research!!

Awesome advice. Thanks! 👍

 

[camshark]

So what does DMUs numbers show? I'm a little confused if they show good, bad or ugly match rates!

 

[bleeker10]

Not only it's misleading, it's just wrong (IMO) because it includes the military matched but doesn't include the military non-matched; Also the military has nothing to do with the AOA. Therefore, for schools with large military matches (e.g. RVU as per your email), the numbers get inflated and over-ranks those school.

Having said that, coming in as 7th is still not bad! Congratulations to your colleagues!👍

There really is no such thing as military unmatched. In the Army, everyone gets a position even if it's a transitional year so nobody goes unmatched. Some people in AF/Navy can get civilian deferred, which basically means they do the AOA/NRMP matches. So if they go unmatched there, it wouldn't count against the military match.

 

[bleeker10]

During the AZCOM interview presentation, the assistant dean was showing us numbers from comlex, blah blah blah, but he also presented USMLE stats for AZCOM students. He was really proud about the pass rate and said that they encourage students to take the USMLE. I thought that was interesting because the LECOM-E presentation (the only other interview I attended) had no such data.

We, at LECOM-E, are only discouraged from taking the USMLE if we have below a certain gpa. They don't tell us USMLE stats, but we do take NBME shelfs (micro, anatomy, basic sciences) so you can get an idea of how you might do.

My advice to those considering taking the USMLE is this: Take an NBME exam before registering for the USMLE. That will give you a baseline score to make a decision. If you score below passing with a month left to take it, I'd say you are better off not doing it because you are at risk of failing. But if you score around average, then you may think about taking the USMLE.

 

[scotchtapetest]

There really is no such thing as military unmatched. In the Army, everyone gets a position even if it's a transitional year so nobody goes unmatched. Some people in AF/Navy can get civilian deferred, which basically means they do the AOA/NRMP matches. So if they go unmatched there, it wouldn't count against the military match.

That's interesting and admittedly I don't know the details of the military match. Nonetheless, the military match has nothing to do with the AOA and their numbers shouldn't be included in the AOA match data...

BTW, if you have a group of people (e.g. Army) who will have 100% match rate, that would still inflate the numbers of schools with large military students and therefore over-rank those schools (my original argument is still holds ) [but in all seriousness, thanks for pointing that out.. I didn't know that]!

 

[camshark]

DMU does well in the match(es).

We got off on a tangent about USMLE performance. Students do well on it but our school doesn't exactly encourage us to take it. We hover at around a 95-97% pass rate among students who choose to take it.

Thank you for replying. Thats good to know!

 

[desiboy]

Has anyone heard anything new in regards to the match list?

 

[Slevin]

Has anyone heard anything new in regards to the match list?

Like what? It's out, it's published, do you think it's going to change?

 

[bleeker10]

That's interesting and admittedly I don't know the details of the military match. Nonetheless, the military match has nothing to do with the AOA and their numbers shouldn't be included in the AOA match data...

BTW, if you have a group of people (e.g. Army) who will have 100% match rate, that would still inflate the numbers of schools with large military students and therefore over-rank those schools (my original argument is still holds ) [but in all seriousness, thanks for pointing that out.. I didn't know that]!

Yea your original argument still stands. I just wanted to point out about the military programs. What's even more ridiculous is that the military programs are ACGME accredited, not AOA, so counting them in the AOA match percentage is absurd.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Has anyone heard anything new in regards to the match list?

Like what? It's out, it's published, do you think it's going to change?

Lol ouch....is the question maybe geared at post-scramble results? Or lists of actual hospitals that students matched? I personally don't know if there's much more info to come, but am just throwing out some guesses.

 

[SoulinNeed]

The number of overall positions went up by a bit more than a 100, if anyone's wondering.

 

[sylvanthus]

Yay for more unfilled family med positions!

 

[ensuii]

Yay for more unfilled family med positions!

Yesssssssssssssss! Exactly what DO grads need!!!!!!!!

 

[donkeykong1]

Yay for more unfilled family med positions!

FM rocks

 

[DocEspana]

Yay for more unfilled family med positions!

You'll be happy for it when the numbers of all students start to approach the limits of all residencies.

Plus, statistically speaking, a ton of us will go into FP. And frankly, if you're going to do FP you really should consider doing FP at an AOA program. You'll get the OMM training that way and it will be a great way to augment the income. There is no such thing as an elite FP program and a lot of people think FP programs are actually much better at less academic sites (less surgeons, IMs and OB/Gyns to compete with). Unless you like a specific allopathic program, people should be going for the AOA ones (IMHO) much more than they are if only for the financial advantages of keeping your OMM skills functional.

 

[sylvanthus]

Doesn't matter if statistically a ton of people will go into FM, the fact remains even with the "astounding" numbers of FM residents, near 1/2 of all FM programs go unfilled. Therefore, it is pretty easy to see that the need is not there.

Also, just because it is a DO FM residency, doesn't in any way mean that OMM is going to be any significant part of the education. After all, don't some DO residencies just pay lip service to OMM and have minimal education in it?

Also, no I will not be happy to see more FM residencies open up just because there are more medical students. Pigeonholing students into FM just because of increasing numbers of medical students, is not an intelligent way of filling the primary care need. Would you rather have a primary care doc who wants to do primary care, or someone who was forced into it because they couldn't get something else?

 

[SoulinNeed]

You'll be happy for it when the numbers of all students start to approach the limits of all residencies.

Plus, statistically speaking, a ton of us will go into FP. And frankly, if you're going to do FP you really should consider doing FP at an AOA program. You'll get the OMM training that way and it will be a great way to augment the income. There is no such thing as an elite FP program and a lot of people think FP programs are actually much better at less academic sites (less surgeons, IMs and OB/Gyns to compete with). Unless you like a specific allopathic program, people should be going for the AOA ones (IMHO) much more than they are if only for the financial advantages of keeping your OMM skills functional.

Is there any data on how OMM changes FP salary for DO's?

 

[Dissected]

I'm with Sylvanthus.

Furthermore, why should people feel obligated to rush to an AOA program? If DO students felt a 'calling' to go to these programs, we would probably not see almost ONE HALF of all spots go unfilled...but alas, 291 graduates last year held out for ACGME family medicine programs.

Most of the AOA programs are in undesirable locations. I think this is a huge contributing factor. Why go to a place where you have no desire to live for 3 years if you have so many more options geographically on the other side of the fence? My FM pals are gung-ho about ACGME programs so they can be close to family and live in locations that are more desirable.

Also, I can count on my right hand the number of people I know in my class who plan on actually billing for OMM in their practice. Maybe some of them will have shocking revelations down the road, but for many it is not much of a consideration.

 

[DocEspana]

Is there any data on how OMM changes FP salary for DO's?

It adds about 17-20K to your salary yearly is the estimate I always hear.

I know that OMT payments from medicare are based on how many areas are being treated up to 10 regions. Payments start at $25 for "1-2 body regions" and go up to an unknown amount (values based on medicare, insurance payments are higher). The value I always hear is that you can justify $35 worth of manipulation on any patient regardless of illness and that anyone with MSK pain can justify up to ten regions which I one time anecdotally heard is $75, but I'm not sure if that is true since I only heard it once from an attending.

The thing is that as a FP you'll easily be seeing 20+ patients a day. Even if you're only doing the absolute bare minimum to half (10) of them you can justify $350 a day from just quick manipulations. Assuming a 5 day week you're at $18,000 yearly added to your salary right there by just doing the bare minimum to a handful of pts a day. Obviously those who go all out can (and generally do) make a killing off of it since its actually a lot of money to make for how little time it takes.

and some OMM is better than none if you want to take advantage of it. Sure some programs barely devote any time to OMM, I'm a student at one of them. But some programs really do integrate it well into their program as well. But no matter what, its involved in some level and institutionally allowed/encouraged. Barring a desire to be in a certain location with limited AOA spots, I honestly cannot justify going to an ACGME FP program when everyone complains about FP salaries and this is pretty much a 16.7% salary increase (potentially much more) with almost no work involved.

With all of this said, maybe I hold a radical crazy opinion on FP residencies. I could accept that I might . I'm usually the one who is on the other side of this argument, giving the AOA a hard time and encouraging DOs to try to really pull out the razzle dazzle and lock up the ACGME spots for "prestige" (cant believe i used that word). But I sort of view FP as a unique situation in which the AOA has the better offering, since it does integrate some-to-lots-of OMT, and because many of the FP spots don't have to compete with other programs on the ground to get the more broad training exposure that makes FP degrees more economically viable once you take that skillset to the office (minor surgeries, obstetrics, gynecology, and no competition from IM residents for the more complex organ diseases).

And btw, the reasoning for constantly opening the FP spots is because FP (and to some degree pediatrics) are not capped by the 1997 law. If you create a FP spot in an underserved area, it gets funded directly and doesn't count against the cap. This allows new programs to get funded and existing programs to open up new programs (or satellite programs) in FP even though all other fields are capped. For those curious, almost all pediatric residencies comes from a separate source of money which has expanded and contracted through the years, but is capable of expanding and creating new programs at any time if the money finds its way there.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

It adds about 17-20K to your salary yearly is the estimate I always hear.

I know that OMT payments from medicare are based on how many areas are being treated up to 10 regions. Payments start at $25 for "1-2 body regions" and go up to an unknown amount (values based on medicare, insurance payments are higher). The value I always hear is that you can justify $35 worth of manipulation on any patient regardless of illness and that anyone with MSK pain can justify up to ten regions which I one time anecdotally heard is $75, but I'm not sure if that is true since I only heard it once from an attending.

The thing is that as a FP you'll easily be seeing 20+ patients a day. Even if you're only doing the absolute bare minimum to half (10) of them you can justify $350 a day from just quick manipulations. Assuming a 5 day week you're at $18,000 yearly added to your salary right there by just doing the bare minimum to a handful of pts a day. Obviously those who go all out can (and generally do) make a killing off of it since its actually a lot of money to make for how little time it takes.

and some OMM is better than none if you want to take advantage of it. Sure some programs barely devote any time to OMM, I'm a student at one of them. But some programs really do integrate it well into their program as well. But no matter what, its involved in some level and institutionally allowed/encouraged. Barring a desire to be in a certain location with limited AOA spots, I honestly cannot justify going to an ACGME FP program when everyone complains about FP salaries and this is pretty much a 16.7% salary increase (potentially much more) with almost no work involved.

With all of this said, maybe I hold a radical crazy opinion on FP residencies. I could accept that I might . I'm usually the one who is on the other side of this argument, giving the AOA a hard time and encouraging DOs to try to really pull out the razzle dazzle and lock up the ACGME spots for "prestige" (cant believe i used that word). But I sort of view FP as a unique situation in which the AOA has the better offering, since it does integrate some-to-lots-of OMT, and because many of the FP spots don't have to compete with other programs on the ground to get the more broad training exposure that makes FP degrees more economically viable once you take that skillset to the office (minor surgeries, obstetrics, gynecology, and no competition from IM residents for the more complex organ diseases).

And btw, the reasoning for constantly opening the FP spots is because FP (and to some degree pediatrics) are not capped by the 1997 law. If you create a FP spot in an underserved area, it gets funded directly and doesn't count against the cap. This allows new programs to get funded and existing programs to open up new programs (or satellite programs) in FP even though all other fields are capped. For those curious, almost all pediatric residencies comes from a separate source of money which has expanded and contracted through the years, but is capable of expanding and creating new programs at any time if the money finds its way there.

I just ran the numbers on a calculator and calculated that:

Incorporating an OMT for 10 pts/day 5 days/week 48 weeks/year at $35 will generate 84K of an additional income. How did you get $18K?

Regardless, I believe that OMM is one extra tool DO's must exploit to produce better financial outcomes.

 

[DocEspana]

I just ran the numbers on a calculator and calculated that:

Incorporating an OMT for 10 pts/day 5 days/week 48 weeks/year at $35 will generate 84K of an additional income. How did you get $18K?

Regardless, I believe that OMM is one extra tool DO's must exploit to produce better financial outcomes.

totally forgot to do the 5 days a week when i was multiplying . I still tend to hear that doing the bare minimum of OMM nets you an easy 17-20K without needing to add any extra "work" to your load. Apparently the amount of OMT referred to when they talk about doing the minimum is even less than 10pts a day. 2-3 per day looks more like it now that i realized i messed up the math.

The point being that OMT is a cash cow. Should that be why you do something? No. But if you are in a field by choice and youre gonna whine about repayments, why not try to maximize the education you get on an extremely lucrative portion of your education that can turn out 17-20K without trying and, apparently, 80K if you do at least attempt it on most patients.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

totally forgot to do the 5 days a week when i was multiplying . I still tend to hear that doing the bare minimum of OMM nets you an easy 17-20K without needing to add any extra "work" to your load. Apparently the amount of OMT referred to when they talk about doing the minimum is even less than 10pts a day. 2-3 per day looks more like it now that i realized i messed up the math.

The point being that OMT is a cash cow. Should that be why you do something? No. But if you are in a field by choice and youre gonna whine about repayments, why not try to maximize the education you get on an extremely lucrative portion of your education that can turn out 17-20K without trying and, apparently, 80K if you do at least attempt it on most patients.

Another question:

Does a physician need to be fellowship trained to bill for OMT?