Do med schools often use Baron's Selectivity Index to assess undergrad institution quality?

[scrapy]

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https://www.jkcf.org/wp-content/upl...r_Process-2015_list_of_selective_colleges.pdf

Here is the most recent list I could find (2015). This gives a good measure of objectivity about undergrad schools, and it even makes sure to demarcate the grade deflators that not everyone knows about (Rose-Hulman, UMiami, Reed, etc) with the best rating of 1. One school I'm applying to said in the past that they used this to assess undergrad quality.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

What is up with this crazy obsession with undergrad prestige on SDN... I swear I see 10,034 of these posts every hour.

 

[Ad2b]

What is up with this crazy obsession with undergrad prestige

insecurity

 

[Wahkoon]

Nah.

 

[scrapy]

Like it or not, multiple med schools have admitted to caring about undergrad prestige. Just because, it got put in the "least important on average" category on the AMCAS surveys doesn't mean it's "least important" for every med school. This can be a gray area because people often don't know how prestigious their school is designated. This list, if used often, really sheds some light on that, and this can be really helpful for people trying to decide an undergrad school.

This list also shows that its not just "HYPSM" that benefits. Plenty of other schools, especially LACs, benefit too.

edit: It's also becoming difficult to differentiate among applicants now. Undergrad school is a big differentiator.

 

[puahate]

I wish the Barron index had more resolution.

 

[Wahkoon]

Like it or not, multiple med schools have admitted to caring about undergrad prestige. Just because, it got put in the "least important on average" category on the AMCAS surveys doesn't mean it's "least important" for every med school. This can be a gray area because people often don't know how prestigious their school is designated. This list, if used often, really sheds some light on that, and this can be really helpful for people trying to decide an undergrad school.

This list also shows that its not just "HYPSM" that benefits. Plenty of other schools, especially LACs, benefit too.

edit: It's also becoming difficult to differentiate among applicants now. Undergrad school is a big differentiator.

To put it bluntly, this list is bad. There is 1 school listed for Nevada which has 500 undergrads... somehow UNR and UNLV are excluded. Also the UCs are a mess: Santa Barbara and Davis > Irvine and San Diego?

Undergrad schools aren’t that big of a differentiating factor, certainly not worth paying attention outside of HYPSM and Premed factories like UCLA.

 

[scrapy]

I wish the Barron index had more resolution.

Well if your school gets a number 1 then some med schools are going to pay that mind.

Also this is 2015, so keep in mind if your school became less selective or dropped a lot in USNWR. If it's become more selective its rating is probably the same or higher.

 

[scrapy]

To put it bluntly, this list is bad. There is 1 school listed for Nevada which has 500 undergrads... somehow UNR and UNLV are excluded. Also the UCs are a mess: Santa Barbara and Davis > Irvine and San Diego?

Undergrad schools aren’t that big of a differentiating factor, certainly not worth paying attention outside of HYPSM and Premed factories like UCLA.

Excluded schools aren't on this list and receieved a rating of 4 or worse (just saying that for clarity because "higher" means 5 and 6).

UCs for undergrad are widely understood as Berkeley and LA being significantly above the others. idk much about the others.

Undergrad schools are absoluely a differentiating factor at many schools. This gives a chance to standardize GPA's from school to school. Sure a high MCAT is king, but med schools also care about how you do longitudinally (consistently high? upward trend? downward trend?)

 

[gyngyn]

I've never heard of it.

 

[Goro]

https://www.jkcf.org/wp-content/upl...r_Process-2015_list_of_selective_colleges.pdf

Here is the most recent list I could find (2015). This gives a good measure of objectivity about undergrad schools, and it even makes sure to demarcate the grade deflators that not everyone knows about (Rose-Hulman, UMiami, Reed, etc) with the best rating of 1. One school I'm applying to said in the past that they used this to assess undergrad quality.

No

 

[sunshinefl]

Well if your school gets a number 1 then some med schools are going to pay that mind.

Also this is 2015, so keep in mind if your school became less selective or dropped a lot in USNWR. If it's become more selective its rating is probably the same or higher.

Your title is asking if they do, yet half an hour later you are simply telling people that they do.

 

[dr_kateb]

Excluded schools aren't on this list and receieved a rating of 4 or worse (just saying that for clarity because "higher" means 5 and 6).

Bull****. I went straight to my state (obvious reasons) and a school with a 3 rating ("competitive") has about a 95% acceptance rate?

 

[scrapy]

Your title is asking if they do, yet half an hour later you are simply telling people that they do.

My title is asking if they use Baron’s list to assess it

 

[scrapy]

Bull****. I went straight to my state (because I live here and I'm not as knowledgeable about other states) and Kansas State has a 3 rating ("competitive") with about a 95% acceptance rate? This list is pointless.

It’s not solely based on selectivity. It is also based on academic rigor. Rose Hulman has a 50%+ acceptance rate, but it is regarded as one of the most difficult schools in the country to get high grades at. As such, it’s given a 1

 

[Osminog]

https://www.jkcf.org/wp-content/upl...r_Process-2015_list_of_selective_colleges.pdf

Here is the most recent list I could find (2015). This gives a good measure of objectivity about undergrad schools, and it even makes sure to demarcate the grade deflators that not everyone knows about (Rose-Hulman, UMiami, Reed, etc) with the best rating of 1. One school I'm applying to said in the past that they used this to assess undergrad quality.

The College of Saint Vincent (an unranked liberal arts college in NY) is assigned a "1" rating? It has a 93% acceptance rate and the mean SAT is 880 (~20th percentile).

The list is stupid, and this thread is pointless.

 

[deleted804295]

Focus on your GPA, MCAT, and ECs before you get neurotic about undergrad prestige. This is so outside of your control and useless to worry about.

 

[enalli]

OP: Look at this helpful list.
Literally everyone else: Your list is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[sunshinefl]

OP: Look at this helpful list.
Literally everyone else: Your list is bad and you should feel bad.

OP: look at this old awkward list I found that no one has ever heard of... do medical schools use it for admission?
Also OP: medical schools definitely use this list
Adcoms: we’ve never heard of it and don’t use it

*Fixed that for you*

 

[mydogmolly]

this list is unheard of for a reason, OP. it's completely worthless

 

[plshelpvanxious]

I can't even imagine being so focused on medical school as a high school student that I'd be thinking about how my future med admissions committee will view my school.
Pick a school where you think you'll be happy and successful.

EDIT: I know plenty of high school students think they are 100% set on becoming a doctor, but probably close to half of my premed friends from freshman year of college are now in other fields for various reasons (including changing interests). I totally understand worrying about community college vs state school, but don't make every decision with med school on your mind.
Sorry for the rant. I'm spending too much time on the premed forum.

 

[dr_kateb]

OP: Look at this helpful list.
Literally everyone else: Your list is bad and you should feel bad.

How is this helpful? Nearly all people here are already in college or beyond and this is something you cannot do anything about. It might be somewhat helpful to high schoolers but even then it doesn't matter much.

 

[965978]

What is up with this crazy obsession with undergrad prestige on SDN... I swear I see 10,034 of these posts every hour.

Top 5 SDN Posts:

1) Does undergrad prestige matter?
2) Does med school prestige matter?
3) Is June 2nd too late to submit my primary?
4) OMG I got an IA what am I gonna do?
5) Is a 520 good enough for top schools?

 

[dr_kateb]

Top 5 SDN Posts:

1) Does undergrad prestige matter?
2) Does med school prestige matter?
3) Is June 2nd too late to submit my primary?
4) OMG I got an IA what am I gonna do?
5) Is a 520 good enough for top schools?

At least the IA inquiries are generally legit concerns.

 

[965978]

At least the IA inquiries are generally legit concerns.

Usually they are either incredibly benign or incredibly lethal

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Top 5 SDN Posts:

1) Does undergrad prestige matter?
2) Does med school prestige matter?
3) Is June 2nd too late to submit my primary?
4) OMG I got an IA what am I gonna do?
5) Is a 520 good enough for top schools?

It’s not a top 5, but my favorite are the “I’m Going to the Caribbean Don’t Try to Talk Me Out of It You Haters” posts.

 

[Peter Pan.]

The College of Saint Vincent (an unranked liberal arts college in NY) is assigned a "1" rating? It has a 93% acceptance rate and the mean SAT is 880 (~20th percentile).

The list is stupid, and this thread is pointless.

Must not be a lot of good grades their because the students aren’t good there? Lmao.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Top 5 SDN Posts:

1) Does undergrad prestige matter?
2) Does med school prestige matter?
3) Is June 2nd too late to submit my primary?
4) OMG I got an IA what am I gonna do?
5) Is a 520 good enough for top schools?

Don’t forget the “I’ve been accepted to a less prestigious medical school and want to drop the acceptance and apply again next cycle for a higher ranked school” posts.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well if your school gets a number 1 then some med schools are going to pay that mind.

Also this is 2015, so keep in mind if your school became less selective or dropped a lot in USNWR. If it's become more selective its rating is probably the same or higher.

It's not something most adcoms I know use. To be perfectly honest, most prestige factor is subjective rather than objective in nature, so no matter how some stupid guide breaks things down, HYPSM>>recognized fairly prestigious schools and personal favorites of a given adcom>all others

 

[Peter Pan.]

This list is inconsistent as pointed out by previous posters and looking through some of it myself I don’t see how this can be credible. Also you have to take into account professors at each university. Some are more difficult so how can you account for that in this system? Do applicants need to list their professor for each class now? Where does this stop?

 

[Mad Jack]

I think known "feeder" schools (ie UG that medical school has had past successful applicants) is probably more important, another factor that is highly subjective and not readily known to most applicants

Hence my stating "personal favorites of given adcoms." Everyone has their preferences based on personal experience

 

[gyngyn]

To be perfectly honest, most prestige factor is subjective rather than objective in nature, so no matter how some stupid guide breaks things down, HYPSM>>recognized fairly prestigious schools and personal favorites of a given adcom>all others

What is the M in HYPSM?

 

[965978]

What is the M in HYPSM?

MIT

 

[gyngyn]

MIT

They have an extraordinarily small number of pre-meds in my experience (just like Cal tech and Harvey Mudd...)

 

[Goro]

Top 5 SDN Posts:

1) Does undergrad prestige matter?
2) Does med school prestige matter?
3) Is June 2nd too late to submit my primary?
4) OMG I got an IA what am I gonna do?
5) Is a 520 good enough for top schools?

To this add:
"I got a B in my OChem course. Is my medical career over?"
"I have 2.5 cGPA (and/or 485 MCAT). WAMC?"

 

[deleted962973]

OP: Look at this helpful list.
Literally everyone else: Your list is bad and you should feel bad.

Who is this helpful to...?

 

[Lucca]

for premed it’s more like HYS. Those were by far the most over represented schools on the interview trail at the medical schools you expect to care about this sort of thing. Some of my MsTP interviews were 30-40% Harvard grads alone

 

[Mad Jack]

They have an extraordinarily small number of pre-meds in my experience (just like Cal tech and Harvey Mudd...)

They're too smart for medicine, generally

 

[gyngyn]

They're too smart for medicine, generally

They tend to be...different.

 

[965978]

for premed it’s more like HYS. Those were by far the most over represented schools on the interview trail at the medical schools you expect to care about this sort of thing. Some of my MsTP interviews were 30-40% Harvard grads alone

I really wonder how much residencies care about where you go to med school compared to how much med schools care about where you go to undergrad. Probably dependent on specialty. I wonder how much it would matter for surgical specialties. I know that the NRMP survey shows it but the response rate is very low.

 

[Goro]

They're too smart for medicine, generally

One of the smartest guys I ever met with my post-doc mentor, who was an MIT grad. Scary breadth of knowledge. Once he made full Prof, he pretty much committed PI suicide though.

I really wonder how much residencies care about where you go to med school compared to how much med schools care about where you go to undergrad. Probably dependent on specialty. I wonder how much it would matter for surgical specialties. I know that the NRMP survey shows it but the response rate is very low.

Med schools are as much feeder programs to residencies as are UG schools to med schools. Their graduates are known quantities.

 

[965978]

Once he made full Prof, he pretty much committed PI suicide though.

What do you mean by this, exactly?

 

[Goro]

What do you mean by this, exactly?

He mismanaged his lab (this was a Howard Hughes scholar, mind you).

A major mistake was wanting to get onto the MALDI-TOF bandwagon when it first started, and he bought a British-made device. If any of you are familiar with the reputations of Lucas refrigerators or British sports cars, you'll know what I'm getting at. The device was so "buggy" that the repair rep, who was based in CA, spent so much time in our lab fixing the damn thing that he and another post-doc int he lab got engaged!

Then there was the time that he let one of his tech go build a house during the day, so he only came in at nighttime for his work. As you can guess, he wasn't very productive.

The boss didn't help himself by having a very hands-off mentorship style. Very sink-or-swim.

So today, he coordinates a course for the med students. His last pub was in 2012!

 

[enalli]

OP: Look at this helpful list.
Literally everyone else: Your list is bad and you should feel bad.

OP: look at this old awkward list I found that no one has ever heard of... do medical schools use it for admission?
Also OP: medical schools definitely use this list
Adcoms: we’ve never heard of it and don’t use it

*Fixed that for you*

How is this helpful? Nearly all people here are already in college or beyond and this is something you cannot do anything about. It might be somewhat helpful to high schoolers but even then it doesn't matter much.

Who is this helpful to...?

I should've put "helpful" in quotes. I think there is universal agreement that this is a silly list, yet the OP keeps holding out hope that it means something.

 

[Toutie]

They tend to be...different.

Over the years I have met a few kids from Harvey Mudd and Cal Tech...all I can say is the students in Big Bang Theory and Real Genius are not based on fiction. 😱

 

[965978]

The device was so "buggy" that the repair rep, who was based in CA, spent so much time in our lab fixing the damn thing that he and another post-doc int he lab got engaged!

At least he can put "Matchmaker" on his resume!

 

[Ad2b]

Friend from low ranking state school in a state considered one of the worst educationally

GPA: 4.0 (premed, biochem/m-bio program); accepted for masters at Oxford on Rhodes

Friend from same low ranking state school...

GPA: 3.7 (premed, m-bio); accepted MD schools x 4 (2 in state, 2 OOS)

Another friend from same low ranking school

GPA: 3.7 (premed, chem); accepted MD and DO schools x 10ish

Another friend from higher ranking (Top 50), different state school

GPA: 3.6 (premed, chem/bio); NOT accepted to either MD or DO programs 1st round

If two adcoms+ say prestige of school doesn't matter, why do you think it does? 😉

 

[dr_kateb]

Friend from low ranking state school in a state considered one of the worst educationally

GPA: 4.0 (premed, biochem/m-bio program); accepted for masters at Oxford on Rhodes

Friend from same low ranking state school...

GPA: 3.7 (premed, m-bio); accepted MD schools x 4 (2 in state, 2 OOS)

Another friend from same low ranking school

GPA: 3.7 (premed, chem); accepted MD and DO schools x 10ish

Another friend from higher ranking (Top 50), different state school

GPA: 3.6 (premed, chem/bio); NOT accepted to either MD or DO programs 1st round

If two adcoms+ say prestige of school doesn't matter, why do you think it does? 😉

Their MCATs?

 

[kilweedy]

Friend from low ranking state school in a state considered one of the worst educationally

GPA: 4.0 (premed, biochem/m-bio program); accepted for masters at Oxford on Rhodes

Friend from same low ranking state school...

GPA: 3.7 (premed, m-bio); accepted MD schools x 4 (2 in state, 2 OOS)

Another friend from same low ranking school

GPA: 3.7 (premed, chem); accepted MD and DO schools x 10ish

Another friend from higher ranking (Top 50), different state school

GPA: 3.6 (premed, chem/bio); NOT accepted to either MD or DO programs 1st round

If two adcoms+ say prestige of school doesn't matter, why do you think it does? 😉

It's moreso that prestige matters. The difference in education between UConn and UMich wont be that different despite a giant difference in rankings. U Chicago vs UConn ? Yeah would expect some more leeway there.

 

[Goro]

At least he can put "Matchmaker" on his resume!

Alas, that relationship didn't work out!