Pansit

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I came across this webcam video on OR-live.com of an Osteopathic Physician doing surgery to help alleviate symptoms from [SIZE=-1]Chiari malformation. It's amazing how they can talk and answer email questions at the same time they are performing surgery! Thought it was pretty cool and just sharing with you guys...:thumbup:

If you want to see it, click on the "view live webcast" link:
http://www.or-live.com/memorialhermann/1327/
[/SIZE]
 

DropkickMurphy

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No offense, but it makes me laugh when people see a DO doing something in a selective field and feel the need to share it because it was a DO and not because the case was interesting.
 

Pansit

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No offense, but it makes me laugh when people see a DO doing something in a selective field and feel the need to share it because it was a DO and not because the case was interesting.

I think it is just something to share because if DO's make up 5% of the physician population how often do you see them doing anything (Maybe I should send this link to the AOA headquarters...lol), anyway, I do remember that thread about that hydroxycut guy being a DO...now that one made me laugh...:laugh: DKM...how long have you been on SDN?...you have like over 7,000 posts!!
 
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I think it is just something to share because if DO's make up 5% of the physician population how often do you see them doing anything (Maybe I should send this link to the AOA headquarters...lol), anyway, I do remember that thread about that hydroxycut guy being a DO...now that one made me laugh...:laugh: DKM...how long have you been on SDN?...you have like over 7,000 posts!!
All it does is serve to point out how FEW DOs do such things when you make a big deal that "OMG, look! He's a DO!", reinforcing the stereotype that they are somehow inferior to MD graduates (which they are not)
 

Pansit

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All it does is serve to point out how FEW DOs do such things when you make a big deal that "OMG, look! He's a DO!", reinforcing the stereotype that they are somehow inferior to MD graduates (which they are not)

I have to disagree there...there are fewer DO's because they are fewer in numbers...and I think seeing DO's "do things" doesnt reinforce the stereotype, I would have posted it on the Pre-allo forum if I wanted that to happen. I think the more exposure the better, but it probably doesn't serve it's purpose as well in SDN, seeing that any thread can turn into an MD/DO thing.
 

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I have to disagree there...there are fewer DO's because they are fewer in numbers...and I think seeing DO's "do things" doesnt reinforce the stereotype, I would have posted it on the Pre-allo forum if I wanted that to happen. I think the more exposure the better, but it probably doesn't serve it's purpose as well in SDN, seeing that any thread can turn into an MD/DO thing.
True....more exposure is better but it only goes so far, as long as the issues with the AOA, residencies, etc still stand. Personally (and this is stating an obvious and well known fact) I think DOs should be "brought into the fold" so to speak and the degree done away with altogether. Prior graduates would be allowed to use MD after their names just like people who attended the UK and received the MBBS degree are allowed to do, or the MD can be retroactively issued from the school they attended. That will be the only way you will ever see this debate completely and utterly disappear.
 

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I agree but unfortunately the public isn't aware of the lack of difference between both degrees. For those of us who have done our homework and no there is no difference in standard of care btw DO or MD, we know the secrets ... maybe the harder our generation pushes, we can get the AOA "old boys" to realize what the profession needs ;)

I actually know someone who matched in the neuro match this year who is a DO. Damn smart one as well.
 

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No offense, but it makes me laugh when people see a DO doing something in a selective field and feel the need to share it because it was a DO and not because the case was interesting.

I find it funny that everytime the words "No offense..." are said/written there is invariably something offensive written after it. Same applies for the words "Not to be racist..." :laugh:

No real point to this post...just bored at work :love:
 
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You have to check AOA and Frieda ... I can tell you that there aren't as I've been working on the database for SDN for it. Here's the list:

AOA
Neurological Surgery 137462 OPTI West - Arrowhead Regional /Riverside County Regional Colton CA
Neurological Surgery 146437 CCOM - BroMenn Regional Med Ctr Bloomington IL
Neurological Surgery 169707 CCOM - John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital Cook County Chicago IL
Neurological Surgery 128408 Garden City Hospital Garden City MI
Neurological Surgery 169712 SJDR / Providence Hospital Southfield MI
Neurological Surgery 141327 NYCOM - Saint Barnabas Medical Center Livingston NJ
Neurological Surgery 126116 NYCOM - Long Isl Jewish Med Ctr New Hyde Park NY
Neurological Surgery 126220 PCOM Philadelphia OA
Neurological Surgery 126130 OUCOM - Doctors Hospital Columbus OH
Neurological Surgery 126154 OUCOM - Grandview Hosp & Med Ctr Dayton OH
Neurological Surgery 170276 VCOM - Carilion Medical Center Roanoke VA

FRIEDA
Neurological Surgery 160-01-21-003 University of Alabama Medical Center Birmingham AL
Neurological Surgery 160-04-21-005 University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences Little Rock AR
Neurological Surgery 160-03-12-004 St Joseph Phoenix AZ
Neurological Surgery 160-03-21-112 University of Arizona Tucson AZ
Neurological Surgery 160-05-11-008 Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-13-124 Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Los Angeles CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-21-010 UCLA Medical Center Los Angeles CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-21-009 University of Southern California - LAC+USC Medical Center Los Angeles CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-11-006 University of California (Davis) Sacramento CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-21-100 University of California (San Diego) San Diego CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-21-011 University of California (San Francisco) San Francisco CA
Neurological Surgery 160-05-21-012 Stanford University Stanford CA
Neurological Surgery 160-07-21-102 University of Colorado Denver CO
Neurological Surgery 160-08-21-015 Yale - New Haven Medical Center New Haven CT
Neurological Surgery 160-10-21-017 George Washington University Washington DC
Neurological Surgery 160-10-21-016 Georgetown University Hospital Washington DC
Neurological Surgery 160-10-21-118 National Capital Consortium Washington DC
Neurological Surgery 160-11-21-018 University of Florida Gainesville FL
Neurological Surgery 160-11-21-019 Jackson Memorial Hospital Miami FL
Neurological Surgery 160-11-21-109 University of South Florida Tampa FL
Neurological Surgery 160-12-21-020 Emory University Atlanta GA
Neurological Surgery 160-12-21-021 Medical College of Georgia Augusta GA
Neurological Surgery 160-18-11-028 University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics Iowa City IA
Neurological Surgery 160-16-21-022 McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University Chicago IL
Neurological Surgery 160-16-11-023 Rush University Medical Center Chicago IL
Neurological Surgery 160-16-11-024 University of Chicago Chicago IL
Neurological Surgery 160-16-21-025 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Chicago IL
Neurological Surgery 160-16-21-026 Loyola University Maywood IL
Neurological Surgery 160-16-21-099 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria Peoria IL
Neurological Surgery 160-17-11-027 Indiana University School of Medicine Indianapolis IN
Neurological Surgery 160-19-21-029 University of Kansas Medical Center Kansas City KS
Neurological Surgery 160-20-21-030 University of Kentucky College of Medicine Lexington KY
Neurological Surgery 160-20-31-031 University of Louisville Louisville KY
Neurological Surgery 160-21-21-032 Louisiana State University New Orleans LA
Neurological Surgery 160-21-21-033 Tulane University New Orleans LA
Neurological Surgery 160-21-13-119 Louisiana State University (Shreveport) Shreveport LA
Neurological Surgery 160-24-21-036 Childrens Hospital / Brigham and Womens Hospital Boston MA
Neurological Surgery 160-24-31-037 Massachusetts General Hospital Boston MA
Neurological Surgery 160-24-31-038 Tufts - New England Medical Center Boston MA
Neurological Surgery 160-23-21-034 Johns Hopkins University Baltimore MD
Neurological Surgery 160-23-21-035 University of Maryland Baltimore MD
Neurological Surgery 160-25-21-039 University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI
Neurological Surgery 160-25-11-040 Henry Ford Hospital Detroit MI
Neurological Surgery 160-25-21-041 Wayne State University / Detroit Medical Center Detroit MI
Neurological Surgery 160-26-21-042 University of Minnesota Minneapolis MN
Neurological Surgery 160-26-21-043 Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education (Rochester) Rochester MN
Neurological Surgery 160-28-21-045 University of Missouri - Columbia Columbia MO
Neurological Surgery 160-28-21-047 St Louis University School of Medicine St Louis MO
Neurological Surgery 160-28-11-046 Washington University / B-JH/SLCH Consortium St Louis MO
Neurological Surgery 160-27-21-044 University of Mississippi Medical Center Jackson MS
Neurological Surgery 160-36-11-059 University of North Carolina Hospitals Chapel Hill NC
Neurological Surgery 160-36-21-060 Duke University Hospital Durham NC
Neurological Surgery 160-36-11-061 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Winston-Salem NC
Neurological Surgery 160-30-21-111 University of Nebraska Medical Center College of Medicine Omaha NE
Neurological Surgery 160-32-21-048 Dartmouth - Hitchcock Medical Center Lebanon NH
Neurological Surgery 160-33-21-106 UMDNJ - New Jersey Medical School Newark NJ
Neurological Surgery 160-34-21-115 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-049 Albany Medical Center Albany NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-051 Albert Einstein College of Medicine Bronx NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-050 University at Buffalo Buffalo NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-053 Mount Sinai School of Medicine New York NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-11-055 New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus) New York NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-052 New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) New York NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-054 New York University School of Medicine New York NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-11-057 University of Rochester Rochester NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-058 SUNY Upstate Medical University Syracuse NY
Neurological Surgery 160-35-21-108 New York Medical College at Westchester Medical Center Valhalla NY
Neurological Surgery 160-38-21-064 University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Cincinnati OH
Neurological Surgery 160-38-21-065 Case Western Reserve University - University Hospitals of Cleveland Cleveland OH
Neurological Surgery 160-38-22-066 Cleveland Clinic Foundation Cleveland OH
Neurological Surgery 160-38-21-067 Ohio State University Hospital Columbus OH
Neurological Surgery 160-39-21-068 University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center Oklahoma City OK
Neurological Surgery 160-40-21-070 Oregon Health & Science University Portland OR
Neurological Surgery 160-41-21-110 Penn State University - Milton S Hershey Medical Center Hershey PA
Neurological Surgery 160-41-21-073 Temple University Hospital Philadelphia PA
Neurological Surgery 160-41-21-074 Thomas Jefferson University Philadelphia PA
Neurological Surgery 160-41-21-075 University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia PA
Neurological Surgery 160-41-31-116 Allegheny General Hospital Pittsburgh PA
Neurological Surgery 160-41-31-076 University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Pittsburgh PA
Neurological Surgery 160-42-21-078 University of Puerto Rico San Juan PR
Neurological Surgery 160-43-21-103 Brown University Providence RI
Neurological Surgery 160-45-11-079 Medical University of South Carolina Charleston SC
Neurological Surgery 160-47-21-080 University of Tennessee Memphis TN
Neurological Surgery 160-47-21-081 Vanderbilt University Nashville TN
Neurological Surgery 160-48-21-082 University of Texas Southwestern Medical School Dallas TX
Neurological Surgery 160-48-21-083 University of Texas Medical Branch Hospitals Galveston TX
Neurological Surgery 160-48-21-084 Baylor College of Medicine Houston TX
Neurological Surgery 160-48-12-123 Methodist Hospital (Houston) Houston TX
Neurological Surgery 160-48-21-085 University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio San Antonio TX
Neurological Surgery 160-49-31-086 University of Utah Salt Lake City UT
Neurological Surgery 160-51-21-088 University of Virginia Charlottesville VA
Neurological Surgery 160-51-21-089 Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond VA
Neurological Surgery 160-50-21-101 University of Vermont Burlington VT
Neurological Surgery 160-54-21-090 University of Washington Seattle WA
Neurological Surgery 160-56-21-092 University of Wisconsin Madison WI
Neurological Surgery 160-56-21-093 Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals Milwaukee WI
Neurological Surgery 160-55-11-091 West Virginia University Morgantown WV
 

Vox Animo

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No offense, but it makes me laugh when people see a DO doing something in a selective field and feel the need to share it because it was a DO and not because the case was interesting.

Your right, there is nothing intersting about broadcasting a brain surgery live for the public. If someone posted that in the pre-allo forum, about an MD doing a live surgery, you would not have made that comment. Your response was done simply to aggravate the people in the forum. If you had followed the link, you would see that the trailer is advertising the surgery, not the DO.

And in the PRE-osteo forum, many people who frequent this sight may not have heard of DO neurosurgeons.
 

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I came across this webcam video on OR-live.com of an Osteopathic Physician doing surgery to help alleviate symptoms from [SIZE=-1]Chiari malformation. It's amazing how they can talk and answer email questions at the same time they are performing surgery! Thought it was pretty cool and just sharing with you guys...:thumbup:

If you want to see it, click on the "view live webcast" link:
http://www.or-live.com/memorialhermann/1327/
[/SIZE]

Pansit, thought that the surgery was very cool, thanks for posting! My husband asked me if I was watching that for class, and thought I was odd when I told him it was just for fun. Can't find anything more interesting on 500+ channels of cable!
 

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Your right, there is nothing intersting about broadcasting a brain surgery live for the public. If someone posted that in the pre-allo forum, about an MD doing a live surgery, you would not have made that comment. Your response was done simply to aggravate the people in the forum. If you had followed the link, you would see that the trailer is advertising the surgery, not the DO.

And in the PRE-osteo forum, many people who frequent this sight may not have heard of DO neurosurgeons.
I don't deny it is interesting to the unindoctrinated and I wasn't talking about following the link. I was talking about the emphasis OP placed on the fact that the surgeon was a DO. :rolleyes:

I guess dissent is not tolerated......all together now.....
"I love you, you love me.....
we're all gonna be doctors,
even if we don't get an MD" :laugh:
SOURCE: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4799081&postcount=65
 
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I don't deny it is interesting to the unindoctrinated and I wasn't talking about following the link. I was talking about the emphasis OP placed on the fact that the surgeon was a DO. :rolleyes:

I guess dissent is not tolerated......all together now.....
"I love you, you love me.....
we're all gonna be doctors,
even if we don't get an MD" :laugh:
SOURCE: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4799081&postcount=65

You do realize this IS a pre-osteopathic forum, right? I don't see that much emphasis on the doc being a DO other than corretly labeling the doc as a DO. There is no " look! a DO made it as a neurosurgeon!" comments even though there could have been since he is chief of pedi neurosurgery at 2 institutions... come on DKM, pick your battles:p
 

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If you are interested in DO neurosurgery: http://www.aoaneurosurgery.com/

It is a great field and one of my top interests

"Neurosurgery is not for everyone; it is only for a few, only for an individual who takes pride and responsibility for actions, only for those that give 100% all the time, and only for those that want to be members of an elite team. An AOA Neurosurgery Residency takes energy and we wish to match up that person to this field."

Sounds like you, Nate! :thumbup:
 

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I don't deny it is interesting to the unindoctrinated and I wasn't talking about following the link. I was talking about the emphasis OP placed on the fact that the surgeon was a DO. :rolleyes:

I guess dissent is not tolerated......all together now.....
"I love you, you love me.....
we're all gonna be doctors,
even if we don't get an MD" :laugh:
SOURCE: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4799081&postcount=65
I hate to admit it and generally just shake my head at most of your comments but that quote is kinda funny....
 

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I would think unnecessary capitalizing the term counts as emphasis.



Yup.

Sorry if my grammar is not up to par, but is Osteopathic Physician not capitalized? Isn't that a title so I thought it was, it wasnt meant for emphasis...emphasis would be precluded with an exclamation point
 

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yeah it sucks when others point out DOs in selective fields. Let's not be too encouraging in the pre-osteo forum! :laugh:


No offense, but it makes me laugh when people see a DO doing something in a selective field and feel the need to share it because it was a DO and not because the case was interesting.
 

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pansit, thanks for posting the video. it was definitely very cool. sorry about the heat your getting. as they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

ps. your username makes me hungry :laugh:
 

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"Neurosurgery is not for everyone; it is only for a few, only for an individual who takes pride and responsibility for actions, only for those that give 100% all the time, and only for those that want to be members of an elite team. An AOA Neurosurgery Residency takes energy and we wish to match up that person to this field."

Neurosurgery is a tough field. A few of my friends are going into it. Definately takes dedication and a lot of time. These are generally people who are great at medicine, love surgery and can connect all of the complex pieces of neurology and neuroanatomy.
 
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I guess dissent is not tolerated......all together now.....
]

I now this sounds kind of strange, but there is a difference between dissent, which most people including myself have to problem with, and going out of our way to antagonize people for no reason, or looking for any reason in someone's post to go off on a tangent about md vs do. Even you have to admit you do the latter.
 

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I now this sounds kind of strange, but there is a difference between dissent, which most people including myself have to problem with, and going out of our way to antagonize people for no reason, or looking for any reason in someone's post to go off on a tangent about md vs do. Even you have to admit you do the latter.
No, I've said repeatedly that I don't believe there is any difference between MD and DO (other than OMM which is a moot point because so few use it). I want to see the artificial seperation ended. That is dissent, not anti-DO rhetoric.
 

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No, I've said repeatedly that I don't believe there is any difference between MD and DO (other than OMM which is a moot point because so few use it). I want to see the artificial seperation ended. That is dissent, not anti-DO rhetoric.

I think more DOs use OMT than you would think. Almost every DO I know does some form of OMT either professionally or on friends/family. It may not be the core of an osteopathic education, but it is far from a wasted skill.
 

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I think more DOs use OMT than you would think. Almost every DO I know does some form of OMT either professionally or on friends/family. It may not be the core of an osteopathic education, but it is far from a wasted skill.
Why then not offer it as an elective and let those who don't care take something they would find more useful?
 

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Hunter, you know what I was just thinking? If I ever met you in real life I would be extremely dissapointed if you didnt have a huge beard and long hair:laugh:
 

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It's easy to keep asking "why" but will you ever get the point?
No, apparently I won't get the point the "osteopathic advocates" (for a lack of a better term) hold. Just as a lot of people don't seem to get the reason why the fields should not be "seperate but equal" because of what amounts to arbitrary historical reasons.
 

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No, apparently I won't get the point the "osteopathic advocates" (for a lack of a better term) hold. Just as a lot of people don't seem to get the reason why the fields should not be "seperate but equal" because of what amounts to arbitrary historical reasons.

I think that problem is that you don't seem to value the historical aspect. Osteopathy has been around for over a hundred years, building it's own image and identity. It is not going to just merge itself with allopathy. Are they similar, yes, but that doesn't mean they should automatically merge. Look, the US rebelled against Britain because they believed in representation, in which everyone has a say and not some monarch and so we separated and created our own identity, well england has come a long way and now is just like the US, so should be just merge with them and become Brits or they merge with us and become Americans. I dont think so because of the identities they have made. If you are a proud osteopathic physician you would not care about merging or even want to merge. Would merging make things easier...maybe, but I am almost sure that if osteopathic medicine merge with allopathic medicine, it would completely disappear. Osteopathic medicine is the minority and be proud of it if you have chosen to be in that profession.
 

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The fact is that there are no large differences between osteopathic medicine and allopathic medicine anymore. I do appreciate the additional knowledge that OMM may afford, but does it really warrant separation by professional title? In other words, do three hours per week really make me significantly different than an MD, because the other modes of practice are largely identical.

The problem with "separate but equal" in the medical community is that, as with all things, the minority is ALWAYS misunderstood. To many, DO screams out "I couldn't get into an allopathic school." which is simply NOT true in many instances. Having different initials also forces individuals to say, "I go to a DO and they're way better than my MD" which then might elicit an argument about which medical profession is better, when both are, in fact, more or less the same. But the fact is that there are many great MDs and there are many great DOs. I would rather see a merger between the two than perpetuating a superficial difference.

Will I love becoming a DO? Yes.

Will I love it simply because I'll be a DO? No.

I will love the opportunity to become a physician. I will appreciate the chance to learn musculoskeletal manipulation as an adjunct to the rest of my medical knowledge, and it is my hope that it will supplement my skills as a superb diagnostician.

After flexner, all other aspects of the two medical professions have become the same. In the past 20-30 years, DOs have moved towards adopting MD methods and MDs have moved to embrace the psychosocial model of medicine. Both camps have made significant changes to become more similar over time.

Am I claiming that it's bad to have pride that you're a DO? NO! But I am saying that those who look at the two fields objectively can't help but wonder, "What is the real difference here?"

Hopefully my medical education sheds some light on this question.
 

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I think that problem is that you don't seem to value the historical aspect. Osteopathy has been around for over a hundred years, building it's own image and identity.

No, I don't particularly value the historical aspects of things that are of questionable historical value and even more dubious utility in the modern world. I suppose then you would recommend we value the historical aspects of medicine where people were therapeutically bled, arsenic was used to treat syphilis, etc? The difference is that once the utility of such practices was called into question, they rapidly fell out of favor and disappeared from the teachings of the medical community. It's people "valuing the historical aspects" that has resulted in the things that most people use to malign DOs still being taught (cranial, OMM for things it has no proven utility in, etc).

Yes, valuing your heritage is important, but not when they hinder you more than help.

dont think so because of the identities they have made. If you are a proud osteopathic physician you would not care about merging or even want to merge.
:laugh: You missed the part about there being so few differences as to be laughable right? Besides, look at all of the negative things that have resulted from making decisions solely based on pride or elitism.


I am almost sure that if osteopathic medicine merge with allopathic medicine, it would completely disappear
It already has (thank God) for the most part.

Osteopathic medicine is the minority and be proud of it if you have chosen to be in that profession.
Since we would still be part of the "profession" as physicians regardless of the title, I don't think you'd see too many people who have their profssional pride destroyed or anyone (outside of the AOA leadership who would lose their source of ego stroking) wailing over the final death knell of osteopathy.

MaximusD said:
Am I claiming that it's bad to have pride that you're a DO? NO! But I am saying that those who look at the two fields objectively can't help but wonder, "What is the real difference here?"
Bingo.
 

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Does anyone have the stats for AOA neurosurgery in respect to those who applied vs. those who matched? What is the percentage?
 

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Some states that require the rotating internship may not report the NS matches I am guessing, like PCOM has a 2 spot/year NS program and didn't appear to report any matches which is possible considering one of their directors told me if they don't like any applicants they go without but improbable.

what i don't understand is i went to the link for the 2007 match results

(https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm...bPageID=sir_match07main&SubPageID=sir_postdoc)

and clicked on "view report," and was only able to count ~5 Neurosurgery (NS) placements. how can this be?
 

mshheaddoc

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Also I don't know if that would include the SF results? Because SF match s before the AOA match and I don't beleive that AOA programs participate in that match, but I might be wrong. As well as many people try to match in SF match first was my understanding of the process ...
 

Dr JPH

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Some states that require the rotating internship may not report the NS matches I am guessing, like PCOM has a 2 spot/year NS program and didn't appear to report any matches which is possible considering one of their directors told me if they don't like any applicants they go without but improbable.

PCOMs Neurosurgery program will indeed go unmatched if the director feels there are no qualified applicants. However, there has been at least one person in the program each of the last 4 years...2 people per year for the years above that. PCOMs NS program goes through the PCOM internship but they are not a linked program, so the intern will be classified as a traditional rotating intern though they are actually matched into the NS program.
 
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