Do non-degree Grad courses count in UG GPA?

[azor ahai]

I had to take ~4 grad courses for my UG biochem major. I am going to take some additional courses this Fall, and want to take grad courses in the upper level sciences. This is to get LOR's from academic professors as well as raise my UG GPA.

My question is if these courses will count towards my UG GPA from admissions committees.

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[moemoekyun]

I took a grad course, and apparently it counted for the GPA. I put it in AMCAS, and it was treated like my other classes. I was still working on my BS, so I don't know if it's different for non-degree.

 

[mehc012]

I took some as a part of my DIY postbacc. I called the school to clarify before doing so, and they said that any courses listed as 'graduate' level were counted as undergraduate unless taken as a part of an official graduate program. The designation was to indicate, for those who were in graduate programs, that the class covered material at a high enough level that graduate programs would typically accept it if arranged ahead of time.

I don't know whether that policy is specific to the school I took classes at, but it is at least one example of how these things are managed.

 

[azor ahai]

I took some as a part of my DIY postbacc. I called the school to clarify before doing so, and they said that any courses listed as 'graduate' level were counted as undergraduate unless taken as a part of an official graduate program. The designation was to indicate, for those who were in graduate programs, that the class covered material at a high enough level that graduate programs would typically accept it if arranged ahead of time.

I don't know whether that policy is specific to the school I took classes at, but it is at least one example of how these things are managed.

Tell me more about your DIY post-bacc because that is what I am doing.

According to this:
"Assign Post Baccalaureate (PB) status to any undergraduate level course work you enrolled in:

·After receipt of your initial BA/BS degree.

·While enrolled in a graduate program, if course work is not applied to a graduate degree.

Assign Graduate (GR) status to any professional or graduate-level course work that is not applied to an undergraduate degree."

According to this, I'd have to assign them as grad courses...

edit:
Oh wow, you're Mehc! I used your ANKI deck for the MCAT! haha, I didn't even get it from here I think it was just one of those shared decks. It's excellent. Thanks!

 

[mehc012]

Tell me more about your DIY post-bacc because that is what I am doing.

According to this:
"Assign Post Baccalaureate (PB) status to any undergraduate level course work you enrolled in:

·After receipt of your initial BA/BS degree.

·While enrolled in a graduate program, if course work is not applied to a graduate degree.

Assign Graduate (GR) status to any professional or graduate-level course work that is not applied to an undergraduate degree."

According to this, I'd have to assign them as grad courses...

edit:
Oh wow, you're Mehc! I used your ANKI deck for the MCAT! haha, I didn't even get it from here I think it was just one of those shared decks. It's excellent. Thanks!

I would call and ask the school you took them from. I asked mine and they told me that they were crediting me with undergraduate coursework despite the designation in the school catalog. The courses were on the same transcript as everything else and have been counted in my AMCAS gpa. Their response was basically "we don't have a graduate degree program, so we do not actually grant graduate level credit. If you take our graduate courses with approval from your graduate program, however, they can grant you graduate level credit for them."

PS It's great to hear that my deck has been useful to some! Too bad the exam changed so shortly after I made it 🙁

 

[azor ahai]

I would call and ask the school you took them from. I asked mine and they told me that they were crediting me with undergraduate coursework despite the designation in the school catalog. The courses were on the same transcript as everything else and have been counted in my AMCAS gpa. Their response was basically "we don't have a graduate degree program, so we do not actually grant graduate level credit. If you take our graduate courses with approval from your graduate program, however, they can grant you graduate level credit for them."

Does it even matter what your school says? It's AMCAS that provides them with the info anyway isn't it?

I just called NYU SOM and the woman sounded very unsure and basically said that it would count as post-bacc, but the AMCAS link I posted leads me to think otherwise.

I am not applying though, so I still have no idea how AMCAS would handle it in their GPA process. Is there a way to see how they would calculate it without starting the lengthy application process?

edit:
Just contacted NYU where I went for UG, and got something definitive.

"Please consult the AMCAS Instruction Manual for details about how to classify coursework. These instructions state: "If you attempted graduate-level coursework while formally enrolled in an undergraduate program, credit for the graduate coursework is counted toward the undergraduate degree requirements. Do not assign Graduate (GR) status to any professional or graduate-level coursework applied to an undergraduate degree. The graduate-level coursework should be listed under the appropriate status (FR, SO, JR SR, PB) at the time the courses were attempted. This coursework should not be listed under the GR status. Assign Post Baccalaureate (PB) status to any undergraduate level coursework you enrolled in while enrolled in a graduate program, if coursework is not applied to a graduate degree. Assign Graduate (GR) status to any professional or graduate-level coursework that is not applied to an undergraduate degree." Therefore, graduate level coursework taken while not enrolled in a graduate program, but after receiving the Bachelor's degree, should be designated as Graduate while completing the AMCAS application."

PS It's great to hear that my deck has been useful to some! Too bad the exam changed so shortly after I made it 🙁

Haha, I know the feeling. I took it in Jan 13th. I started tutoring it anyway. The science aspect is still mostly the same.

 

[mehc012]

Does it even matter what your school says? It's AMCAS that provides them with the info anyway isn't it?

I just called NYU SOM and the woman sounded very unsure and basically said that it would count as post-bacc, but the AMCAS link I posted leads me to think otherwise.

I am not applying though, so I still have no idea how AMCAS would handle it in their GPA process. Is there a way to see how they would calculate it without starting the lengthy application process?



Haha, I know the feeling. I took it in Jan 13th. I started tutoring it anyway. The science aspect is still mostly the same.

I really feel that 'graduate gpa' is for those who actually enrolled in a graduate program.
Calling my school helped because I was told that they straight-up don't grant graduate credit, so mine had to be undergraduate.
All of my courses were on the same transcript, so I entered them all under the same school (no graduate entry). AMCAS accepted the designation, even though my transcripts were reviewed 2x because they made errors during initial verification.
If there are only a couple, even if AMCAS reclassifies them, that is only 1 or 2 errors, so it won't mess up your verification.

 

[efle]

Don't you have a 39 MCAT? You really need a post-bacc?

 

[mehc012]

Don't you have a 39 MCAT? You really need a post-bacc?

Hey, I had a 40 and I definitely needed a postbacc. It happens!

 

[efle]

He has a 3.4, I thought a 39 would be fine to compensate...

 

[azor ahai]

He has a 3.4, I thought a 39 would be fine to compensate...

I just got back from talking to a pre-health advisor at NYU (where I went for UG) and he looked at everything and told me that I needed to retake all my pre-reqs because they were too old. He was very adamant about it. I called NYU School of Medicine right after and they told me that they didn't care and it's a better use of my time to take upper division courses like I'm currently doing.

So much misinformation everywhere.

Anyway, I'm going to be taking some classes this Fall and perhaps in the Spring. It's too bad I can't take all of the bio courses I wanted to take because molec cell is a pre-req, which is also full. Many classes are. I was late to enroll this semester. I'm thinking of just taking some math courses or something just because it counts in BCPM.

 

[efle]

I wonder how many people per year get ****ed by their terrible premed advising

So what made you decide to do a post-bacc? Were you really worried about your odds?

 

[azor ahai]

I wonder how many people per year get ****ed by their terrible premed advising

So what made you decide to do a post-bacc? Were you really worried about your odds?

I'm just taking classes as a visiting student. I did apply to NYU's post-bacc program because of their linkage program with NYU SOM, Mt.Sinai,and a bunch of other NY schools. Didn't get in. So I'm just taking some courses now for three reasons:

1. demonstrate I can still handle a full courseload
2. get academic LOR's
3. maybe raise my GPA

I did fairly well in my pre-reqs, I just had a disastrous senior year (traumatic event, stopped going to class, didn't even take a bunch of exams) and got a couple of C-'s and such. So that explains the GPA.

I'm still worried about my odds, don't think that'll ever go away. I really want to go some place in state (NY).

 

[mehc012]

Overall GPA 3.4-3.6 with 39+ MCAT runs about 75%+ acceptance rate the last 2 cycles
drops off significantly with GPA below that

Yup, that's why my goal was to get up to that 3.4 cutoff. Didn't make it
I didn't know the OP's specific stats, only that there are definitely reasons to attempt a postbacc even with a strong MCAT!

 

[efle]

Sounds like in his case it's more to show recovery after what happened last year

 

[gyngyn]

I just got back from talking to a pre-health advisor at NYU (where I went for UG) and he looked at everything and told me that I needed to retake all my pre-reqs because they were too old. He was very adamant about it. I called NYU School of Medicine right after and they told me that they didn't care and it's a better use of my time to take upper division courses like I'm currently doing.

So much misinformation everywhere.

Anyway, I'm going to be taking some classes this Fall and perhaps in the Spring. It's too bad I can't take all of the bio courses I wanted to take because molec cell is a pre-req, which is also full. Many classes are. I was late to enroll this semester. I'm thinking of just taking some math courses or something just because it counts in BCPM.

Required classes don't expire at any medical school I know.