DO over MD?

[muscme]

I've been accepted to one MD school. It's OOS but i have close ties (my parents live there). I've also been accepted to 3 DO schools. One is in my resident state, the city where i've lived pretty much my entire life. I am planning to get married soon to my fiance and we really want to stay near our hometown. SO, do you guys think that I would regret it if I chose the nearer DO school over the MD school i got into (which, i forgot to mention, is on the east coast, whereas my hometown is on the West coast). Do you think there's still a "stigma" attached to being a DO in the medical community? You think it might affect me down the line when i apply to residencies?

any advice/help is greatly appreciated. if you need other info, just ask.

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[FIREitUP]

no matter what anyone else says, there still is a disadvantage to going to a DO school, most notably, if you shooting for a competitive allopathic residency, you will have more difficulty. Also, if you are looking to apply for allopathic residencies in general, you have to take both the USMLE and the COMLEX, which may be off putting for some.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I've been accepted to one MD school. It's OOS but i have close ties (my parents live there). I've also been accepted to 3 DO schools. One is in my resident state, the city where i've lived pretty much my entire life. I am planning to get married soon to my fiance and we really want to stay near our hometown. SO, do you guys think that I would regret it if I chose the nearer DO school over the MD school i got into (which, i forgot to mention, is on the east coast, whereas my hometown is on the West coast). Do you think there's still a "stigma" attached to being a DO in the medical community? You think it might affect me down the line when i apply to residencies?

any advice/help is greatly appreciated. if you need other info, just ask.

Wheww, I know you didn't do it on purpose, but you just started a thread in this forum that is essentially guaranteed to get nasty.

I want to be transparent in my answer and say that I am attending a DO school next year, but I've always thought that happiness and keeping your life normal should weigh pretty high in your decision. If you really want to stay near your hometown and you think this will make you a happy, productive student ... then I think you would do well at the DO school. I'm not saying this WILL happen, but external stresses on the East Coast could definitely affect your work in medical school.

As far as the stigma goes ... I personally don't think it's an issue at all once you're in practice. Frankly, I've personally ever only heard bickering over it at the pre-med level, and I feel like even that is starting to die down. For residency, remember that DOs can apply for ACGME (MD) residencies and their own set of AOA residencies in all fields (derm, ortho, surgery, OB/GYN, etc etc). The biggest reason people give for going MD over DO is the post grad opportunities for MD being greater than that of DOs. Personally, when I look at DO match lists from schools like Midwestern University at Chicago or A.T. Still University in Kirksville ... I struggle to see this huge issue. Competitive residencies are going to be tough to get into from both sides of the fence, and though there are statistically more on the ACGME (much more actually), and these do usually have a DO bias (which is fine in my opinion), there are AOA residencies in these fields (though geographically they can be a bit concentrated in the Midwest). Also, DOs do match some pretty impressive ACGME spots. I've personally seen plenty of ACGME ortho, g-surg, and even a few derm on DO match lists.

If you aren't dying to enter a ROAD specialty, then that whole discussion with post grad opportunities is pretty moot. So bottom line, I think if you're a smart, motivated student, you'll be fine with either degree. If you want to stay close to home and keep your family there, then go to the DO school, work hard with their support and prosper. However, if you want the MD title then by all means, go to the OOS school. No one is going to fault you for it. Personally (I know you were looking for advice), I'd pick the school that was the best fit, and it sounds like that is the one closest to your home town (remember though I stated I was DO 2014 at the beginning, just to keep things as fair as possible).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

no matter what anyone else says, there still is a disadvantage to going to a DO school, most notably, if you shooting for a competitive allopathic residency, you will have more difficulty. Also, if you are looking to apply for allopathic residencies in general, you have to take both the USMLE and the COMLEX, which may be off putting for some.

i'll agree
if your looking for a high up residency..
it might be wise to go to the oos MD..
however it all depends if theres a big cash iff
if its a 10k diff between schools you might want to consider
if your aiming for primary care then its probably not a big problem..

but it depends
if i were you
i'd probably go to a MD school just cuz i want into rads or a specialty with a good life-style

 

[FIREitUP]

jagger went the more comprehensive route. but i definitely agree with him; once you enter medical school, the burden is on you. no school will carry you or make you successful. but, I still think the distinctions between MD and DO education is still notable, and you are narrowing your options somewhat when going into an osteopathic medical school.

 

[J ROD]

Go MD if you have a chance....

 

[BornOnce]

I asked a couple friends of mine (they aren't in the medical field) whether or not they would see a DO. Both said they only would if an MD wasn't available.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I asked a couple friends of mine (they aren't in the medical field) whether or not they would see a DO. Both said they only would if an MD wasn't available.

Both these people have probably seen DOs before and been completely unaware of it. This is the kind of stuff that is just going to lead to a huge flame war and close a thread for someone who is seeking help. Completely irrelevant. I worked in an ER for two years and heard people refuse care from black and female doctors on multiple occasions. Does this mean these people had valid points or that women are lesser physicians???

 

[dr.z]

I asked a couple friends of mine (they aren't in the medical field) whether or not they would see a DO. Both said they only would if an MD wasn't available.

I have a friend who is a practicing physician (M.D.). I needed help, and she wouldn't see me because I was her friend. She referred me to another physician, and he is D.O. She told me he is one of the best physicians she knows, and I believe it too after meeting him.

 

[muscme]

I Should have added that i am not looking to go into a highly competitive specialty. I'm almost 100% sure i'll be doing something in primary care.

I would like to stay in my hometown because i don't want to uproot my fiance (or my self) to such an extent - the east coast is far (and cold) damnit!

i really don't know what to do.

 

[BornOnce]

Both these people have probably seen DOs before and been completely unaware of it. This is the kind of stuff that is just going to lead to a huge flame war and close a thread for someone who is seeking help. Completely irrelevant. I worked in an ER for two years and heard people refuse care from black and female doctors on multiple occasions. Does this mean these people had valid points or that women are lesser physicians???

You missed my point. I know quite a few people who will only see MDs. I'm not making a judgment call, but it's just something people should know when thinking about getting a DO.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I Should have added that i am not looking to go into a highly competitive specialty. I'm almost 100% sure i'll be doing something in primary care.

I would like to stay in my hometown because i don't want to uproot my fiance (or my self) to such an extent - the east coast is far (and cold) damnit!

i really don't know what to do.

Remember that you could very, very easily change your mind about wanting derm or rads or something competitive while in medical school. Again though, these are feasible through the DO route too (probably just as hard as through MD, but in a different way ... I can explain if you really want MY pre-medical opinion). What does your fiance want to do?

 

[J ROD]

I Should have added that i am not looking to go into a highly competitive specialty. I'm almost 100% sure i'll be doing something in primary care.

I would like to stay in my hometown because i don't want to uproot my fiance (or my self) to such an extent - the east coast is far (and cold) damnit!

i really don't know what to do.

Sounds like you already have decided!! DO sounds like you!!

 

[muscme]

I asked a couple friends of mine (they aren't in the medical field) whether or not they would see a DO. Both said they only would if an MD wasn't available.

did they say why they wouldn't see the DO first?

 

[BornOnce]

did they say why they wouldn't see the DO first?

Well you have to understand that the vast majority of DO students are so because they couldn't get into an MD. You would be in the minority having an MD acceptance. Patients know this and they generally want the best people possible in charge of their health care.

 

[muscme]

Sounds like you already have decided!! DO sounds like you!!

i don't know. i know its stupid, but i guess the initials after my name kind of matter to me. i'm the kind of person that really cares about what others think. i don't want future colleagues or, worse, future PATIENTS, like the one's born described, to think less of me.

 

[J ROD]

did they say why they wouldn't see the DO first?

I know many "regular" folk that thinks they are not "real" doctors and want to see a real one with a MD on the jacket.

Personally, I would not want to answer all the questions and the feeling of being inferior.

Reason why I did not apply. I know several great DOs though and personally have no problems with them and would go to one

 

[JaggerPlate]

You missed my point. I know quite a few people who will only see MDs. I'm not making a judgment call, but it's just something people should know when thinking about getting a DO.

I really don't think I did miss your point, and I think the sample size in your example is pretty small. It also confuses me as to why people who refuse to see a DO, but clearly not go through the trouble of knowing who they are and what they do?? I mean, if you had someone who saw a bad doc who happened to be a DO and then warned people (illogically) 'don't see DOs,' I'd get it ... but 1. I don't see how people could just know not to see DOs and 2. I'd seriously be willing to bet that at least one of these people you know has seen a DO and not realized it (maybe in an ER, maybe one was part of a surgical team, etc) because they are identical to MDs in practice. I still don't think your example is sufficient enough to warrant something people should 'know,' just in the same way that I don't think me hearing a few old crazy people refuse to see a woman or african american physician should be a warning to any women or african american individuals looking to enter medicine.

If it makes it any more relevant, my PCP for 20 years is a DO in Southern California and has a huge thriving practice where he had to stop taking patients, almost everyone I know sees him, etc. I'm sure there are MD PCPs in So Cal who can't say the same. See, not really factual or anything, but something that could be known from my own experience.

 

[J ROD]

i don't know. i know its stupid, but i guess the initials after my name kind of matter to me. i'm the kind of person that really cares about what others think. i don't want future colleagues or, worse, future PATIENTS, like the one's born described, to think less of me.

US MD is KING!!

 

[BornOnce]

I know many "regular" folk that thinks they are not "real" doctors and want to see a real one with a MD on the jacket.

Personally, I would not want to answer all the questions and the feeling of being inferior.

Exactly. Many people on SDN forget that the majority of patients are regular people.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Well you have to understand that the vast majority of DO students are so because they couldn't get into an MD. You would be in the minority having an MD acceptance. Patients know this and they generally want the best people possible in charge of their health care.

HAHAHAHAHAH. Dude, 1. I can't argue with you if you're trolling and 2. people are so shockingly clueless about healthcare that saying the average plumber thinks 'there are two slightly separate but fully licensing paths to becoming a physician, that of the Allopathic or MD, and the Osteopathic or DO, and at this point in time, DO MCAT and GPA averages are lower than that of MD (very slightly in many cases), ergo, DOs represent a lower quality of physician,' makes me want to pee my pants laughing. In the last year, I've had people ask me what a residency was, if I get paid for going to medical school, if I pick a field like a major in college before I start medical school, etc etc ... the average person doesn't know what you are talking about. Ugh, OP please ignore his/her points.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I know many "regular" folk that thinks they are not "real" doctors and want to see a real one with a MD on the jacket.

Personally, I would not want to answer all the questions and the feeling of being inferior.

Reason why I did not apply. I know several great DOs though and personally have no problems with them and would go to one

What if they put 'Dr Joe Smith' on the white coat instead of 'Joe Smith, DO' then would they be qualified enough to tell the 'regular' folks to quit smoking and eating McDonalds five times a week. Give me a break.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Exactly. Many people on SDN forget that the majority of patients are regular people.

Regular people = the huge majority of Americans, a huge majority of which don't even have health insurance or a PCP, let alone give a crap or have any clue whatsoever regarding their doc's credentials.

 

[JaggerPlate]

i don't know. i know its stupid, but i guess the initials after my name kind of matter to me. i'm the kind of person that really cares about what others think. i don't want future colleagues or, worse, future PATIENTS, like the one's born described, to think less of me.

Honestly, if the initials after your name are that important to you, then that is seriously something to consider. If it's going to make you feel uncomfortable or defensive or whatever to go DO, then take that into consideration on par with staying near your family or hell, just go to the MD school. No one is going to fault you for doing what you feel most comfortable with, not even us pre/current DO students.

 

[muscme]

Well you have to understand that the vast majority of DO students are so because they couldn't get into an MD. You would be in the minority having an MD acceptance. Patients know this and they generally want the best people possible in charge of their health care.

you lost me born. i thought you were gonna give me some reason based on how DO's diagnose or interact or treat their patients.

a lot of people can't get into US MD's and go abroad. does that mean your friends wouldn't see grads of offshore schools? or how about foreign doctors? would your friends rather see someone who went to UCSF than someone who went to Marshall b/c he/she didn't get into ucsf? or how about a non-urm over a urm? you lost me, man.

 

[BornOnce]

Jagger, I'm not saying becoming a DO is necessarily a bad thing. I just think it's important that a person fully understands that they will be perceived differently by a number of patients. You are probably right that patients generally don't know too much about the medical field, but I think most know that doctors are MD. It's in pop culture and people are used to seeing signs on buildings saying First Last, M.D.

 

[FIREitUP]

What if they put 'Dr Joe Smith' on the white coat instead of 'Joe Smith, DO' then would they be qualified enough to tell the 'regular' folks to quit smoking and eating McDonalds five times a week. Give me a break.

no, because now Dr. applies also to Nurse Practitioners, haha. I think that there should be some sort of physician indicator. It's easy to get confused with all these health professionals running around with white coats nowadays.

 

[JaggerPlate]

you lost me born. i thought you were gonna give me some reason based on how DO's diagnose or interact or treat their patients.

a lot of people can't get into US MD's and go abroad. does that mean your friends wouldn't see grads of offshore schools? or how about foreign doctors? would your friends rather see someone who went to UCSF than someone who went to Marshall b/c he/she didn't get into ucsf? or how about a non-urm over a urm? you lost me, man.

It seems like Born is trolling a bit here. If he/she wants to make valid points, that's cool, but saying foolish things is only going to get this thread closed and screw with your decision, so again, don't put weight into things that sound absurd, because they probably are.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Jagger, I'm not saying becoming a DO is necessarily a bad thing. I just think it's important that a person fully understands that they will be perceived differently by a number of patients. You are probably right that patients generally don't know too much about the medical field, but I think most know that doctors are MD. It's in pop culture and people are used to seeing signs on buildings saying First Last, M.D.

What if it says 'Dr. Joe Smith, BC Internist' instead of 'Joe Smith, DO, BC Internst?' Is it okay then?

 

[ensuii]

You guys remember that GI hot indian chick in supersize me? She was a DO...just sayin'

 

[JaggerPlate]

no, because now Dr. applies also to Nurse Practitioners, haha. I think that there should be some sort of physician indicator. It's easy to get confused with all these health professionals running around with white coats nowadays.

For sure. People have suggested things like color coding scrubs in hospitals or even amending the DO degree to DO, MD or MD-O or some other thing to demonstrate DOs as fully licensed physicians. However, in most cases, it won't come to a point where an NP (even a DNP) is confused with a MD/DO in a situation where it's relevant.

 

[BornOnce]

What if it says 'Dr. Joe Smith, BC Internist' instead of 'Joe Smith, DO, BC Internst?' Is it okay then?

What do you mean is it okay? I would personally choose a doctor based on their reputation amongst professionals for being a good doctor, regardless of MD or DO.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Jagger, I'm not saying becoming a DO is necessarily a bad thing. I just think it's important that a person fully understands that they will be perceived differently by a number of patients. You are probably right that patients generally don't know too much about the medical field, but I think most know that doctors are MD. It's in pop culture and people are used to seeing signs on buildings saying First Last, M.D.

And what I am saying is that I think your sample size is too small to make this comment or that you are skewing it for the example (especially if all the people in your example know each other, are friends, etc). None of my close friends/family buy Fords and think Chevys are vastly superior. Does this mean I can use this small, skewed sample size to talk someone out of opening a Ford Dealership because the whole population knows Fords are inferior vehicles????

 

[muscme]

You guys remember that GI hot indian chick in supersize me? She was a DO...just sayin'

Oh snap, i do remember that chick! lol

 

[JaggerPlate]

What do you mean is it okay? I would personally choose a doctor based on their reputation amongst professionals for being a good doctor, regardless of MD or DO.

( Palm to face) .... Then why wouldn't your intelligent, well-informed friends do the same?????

 

[J ROD]

Just call yourself.....blank MD or blank DO.

Can you see one over the other?

 

[J ROD]

You guys remember that GI hot indian chick in supersize me? She was a DO...just sayin'

I dont want her to be my doc just in my bed!!

 

[JaggerPlate]

Just call yourself.....blank MD or blank DO.

Can you see one over the other?

I feel like I'm taking a philosophy pop quiz.

My answer: There is no spoon???

 

[avksx]

You guys remember that GI hot indian chick in supersize me? She was a DO...just sayin'

Refresh my memory with images, if you could.

 

[J1515]

I Should have added that i am not looking to go into a highly competitive specialty. I'm almost 100% sure i'll be doing something in primary care.

I would like to stay in my hometown because i don't want to uproot my fiance (or my self) to such an extent - the east coast is far (and cold) damnit!

i really don't know what to do.

I got accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose DO based on your exact reasons and I'm a resident now. Don't listen to what any of the pre-med kiddies here tell you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

[BornOnce]

( Palm to face) .... Then why wouldn't your intelligent, well-informed friends do the same?????

They aren't even college educated or particulaly intelligent. They represent the majority of people. You were confused by my whole point.

 

[muscme]

I dont want her to be my doc just in my bed!!

now that's just sexist

 

[J ROD]

I feel like I'm taking a philosophy pop quiz.

My answer: There is no spoon???

Chick or egg? Who came first?

 

[JaggerPlate]

They aren't even college educated or particulaly intelligent. They represent the majority of people. You were confused by my whole point.

Holy crap man ... no I'm not, you're making my point. The average person is clueless when it comes to medicine, hence, they would never know what a DO was, if they were seeing one, what the difference was, and REALLY not know the difference in admission standards. Any judgment on their part is ill founded and specific to them, not the general attitude of the US.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Chick or egg? Who came first?

The egg ... duh. I've actually always thought the egg, dunno why. Any aspiring psychs guys in here wanna break down what that means.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I got accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose DO based on your exact reasons and I'm a resident now. Don't listen to what any of the pre-med kiddies here tell you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

God I'm glad you showed up. I almost PMed you to talk to the OP because I knew you were in a similar situation and went DO.


** Not that I am saying to go DO over MD, I'm just saying it's probably more common to see people go MD over DO than vice versa on these boards, so J has some interesting insight and prospective to add here.

 

[J1515]

I just think it's important that a person fully understands that they will be perceived differently by a number of patients.

I rotated through a ton of hospitals and interacted with more than enough patients. I wasn't perceived differently.

Take it for what you will - someone who has graduated from medical school (DO) vs. a pre-med who is studying for the MCATs.

 

[J ROD]

The egg ... duh. I've actually always thought the egg, dunno why. Any aspiring psychs guys in here wanna break down what that means.

you have a yearning to get back into your mother's womb!!

 

[spicedmanna]

Regular people = the huge majority of Americans, a huge majority of which don't even have health insurance or a PCP, let alone give a crap or have any clue whatsoever regarding their doc's credentials.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. In my experience, most patients, don't give a flying-**** about whether their doctor is an MD or DO. They just want a doctor. And to the average patient, basically anybody in a white coat is a doctor. Patients see so many specialists and healthcare workers in an average hospital stay that they can't really keep anything straight anyway. To my observation, no patient has ever asked any of the osteopathic physicians I've been following to explain their degree, or has even questioned it. At the hospital where I am rotating, it has come up, oh, about ZERO times.

As mentioned in the previous posts, sometimes the very patients who are ignorant of osteopathic medicine have been seeing one or have seen one in the past for their healthcare needs. They just didn't know it, or didn't care. So, yes, there is still some ignorance out there, particularly in areas that aren't DO-heavy. Remember, DO's are still the minority. I have been in areas that don't have a lot of DO's and have had it come up in conversation a few times with respect to me attending an osteopathic medical school. I just took the opportunity to educate, with people quickly realizing what I was talking about and it became a non-issue.

The bottom line is that most patients don't care. And if they do, it's probably based in ignorance. I have witnessed absolutely no problems whatsoever with any of my preceptors as a consequence of having the DO degree.

 

[muscme]

WOAH. wait just a minute. i just checked my gmail. my premed adviser wrote that "i should also consider the pay discrepancy." WTF is she talking about??? there's a pay discrepancy between DO's and MD's now??