Do people get into medical school through connections/or having someone 'pull some strings?'

[FutureFACS]

Just out of curiosity, does this ever happen? You would think that a lot of applicants know somebody who knows somebody, but are there measures in place to make sure this type of thing doesn't occur?

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[FutureOncologist]

At my school, if you have done any undergraduate programs, then you will get a quicker response. We look at it here as a serious commitment to the school, even if the people you worked with don't work on admissions.

But as far as just "knowing the adcoms" to get a leg up, I've never heard of that.

 

[claduva94]

I'm sure it happens with a very small number of seats.

 

[Psai]

med schools want people to succeed
they won't take a scrub just from a personal push although a good word might help someone go from the not interviewing to interview list

 

[Mad Jack]

It's rare. Though having wealth and connections can make the pre-med process easier, and gives you a leg up if you have such resources. It's not a huge leg up, but every little bit counts.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I know of two people who only got interviews and accepted at the schools that their fathers are faculty members at. of course this gives no background about them as applicants and is completely anecdotal, but whether it's a coincidence or not is hard to tell. I'm sure it does happen, but certainly not with enough seats for it to be worrisome to us as applicants.

 

[Goro]

Did you ever wonder about those people in the AAMC stats who get accepted into medical school with really sub-par numbers, like high teens MCATs?

Those aren't URMs, they're "legacies" or "specials". They're the relations of donors, deans, or faculty.

Oddly, people piss and moan about URMs, but never about legacies.

I remember one kid I gave a special interview with because he was the kid of a potential donor. Dumb as a stump, and I ranked him as such but our wily old admissions dean still pulled him off the low wait list into accept. Terrible student, but somehow he managed to graduate. You should hear how some of my colleagues over at one of the Touros used to complain about the barely sentient kids they had forced down their throats by their Dean.

But these are not that common, fortunately. Most of the time, connections will net one a courtesy interview, followed by a fast rejection.

Just out of curiosity, does this ever happen? You would think that a lot of applicants know somebody who knows somebody, but are there measures in place to make sure this type of thing doesn't occur?

 

[deleted535750]

Did you ever wonder about those people in the AAMC stats who get accepted into medical school with really sub-par numbers, like high teens MCATs?

Those aren't URMs, they're "legacies" or "specials". They're the relations of donors, deans, or faculty.

Oddly, people piss and moan about URMs, but never about legacies.

I remember one kid I gave a special interview with because he was the kid of a potential donor. Dumb as a stump, and I ranked him as such but our wily old admissions dean still pulled him off the low wait list into accept. Terrible student, but somehow he managed to graduate. You should hear how some of my colleagues over at one of the Touros used to complain about the barely sentient Orthodox Jews they had forced down their throats by their Dean.

But these are not that common, fortunately. Most of the time, connections will net one a courtesy interview, followed by a fast rejection.

My hunch about no one complaining about legacies, is people think their kids will be legacies one day at some top notch school. So they don't want to get rid of legacy programs, so that their kids will have it easier. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Wow Goro your comment was pretty unprofessional.

 

[Goro]

Just wait until you start having to interview some of these people.

Wow Goro your comment was pretty unprofessional.

 

[deleted407021]

Wow Goro your comment was pretty unprofessional.

lol @Goro don't care. He doesn't tolerate the BS.


Legacies can make sense, to an extent, but only if that applicant is otherwise competitive. Giving a 2.7, 21 business major a seat because his dad's name is on a plaque somewhere is ridiculous and, I think, dilutes the integrity of the institution.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

lol @Goro don't care. He doesn't tolerate the BS.


Legacies can make sense, to an extent, but only if that applicant is otherwise competitive. Giving a 2.7, 21 business major a seat because his dad's name is on a plaque somewhere is ridiculous and, I think, dilutes the integrity of the institution.

Also, given that many of these legacies were probably given every resource known to mankind to succeed on a silver platter and still couldn't shows they aren't cut out for it. but money makes the world go 'round. such is life I suppose

 

[NickNaylor]

Wow Goro your comment was pretty unprofessional.

I wish you could sit through an admissions committee meeting. You'd probably think everyone was "unprofessional" after doing so.

 

[mimelim]

In my limited experience, legacy will give you a bump for getting an interview (courtesy), but to impact admissions there has to a substantial donation at play.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Yes, white privilege plays a huge role in the admissions process. Even if your parent isn't close friends with the adcom, having a parent in medicine or just a parent of high socioeconomic status gives one a huge advantage.

It can be hard to realize, but it's true.

 

[Ismet]

What do you mean by "terrible student"? I've been told numerous times by people at my school that as long as you're passing, you shouldn't get discouraged about being below average. Apparently this student graduated so how bad can he really be?

Failing classes, repeating years, repeating clerkships, etc. You can do worse than pass initially, try again and pass, and still graduate.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Aren't you voluntarily interviewing students though? I don't think it's appropriate to rant about that online. Med schools rely on donors to better their programs. You honestly sound a little jealous of their wealth and maybe they had a step up over you in life at some point but emotions aside we all have to do parts of our jobs we don't like. I'm sure you probably make their interviews absolute hell compared to others anyways. talking poorly about your dean and boss online is not a smart move.

 

[Lucca]

I've always wondered how people sound at committee meetings. Can you give me some examples of what they say in them?

"This kid has a 3.9 gpa and a 41 mcat, but not too much volunteering, a small amount of clinical experience though...."


Ortho adcom: "Sure, but does he even lift?"

IM Primary care adcom: "He has no idea what medicine is like, reject."

Pathologist: "He sounds great! Let him in."

Administrator: "He'll raise our numbers and his family makes enough that we dont have to pay for him to come here; just accept, who cares."

MS3: "Where's the coffee??? Who drank all of the goddamn coffee??!? Was it you Gill??" Yells profanities at house plant.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

Yes, white privilege plays a huge role in the admissions process. Even if your parent isn't close friends with the adcom, having a parent in medicine or just a parent of high socioeconomic status gives one a huge advantage.

It can be hard to realize, but it's true.

I certainly acknowledge white privilege, but that is not what white privilege is. Even though my parents didn't go to college, and don't have much economic security, I am given the benefit of the doubt and certain assumptions are made about me as a white male. That is white privilege. What you described is privilege that someone of any race or ethnicity could have, although, BECAUSE of white privilege, it is another privilege that white people tend to have more of than non-whites.

 

[Boolean]

Yes, white privilege plays a huge role in the admissions process. Even if your parent isn't close friends with the adcom, having a parent in medicine or just a parent of high socioeconomic status gives one a huge advantage.

It can be hard to realize, but it's true.

Erm, people other than Caucasians can be legacies / donate to the school, you realize that, yes?

 

[Goro]

Bottom of the class, multiple failures, multiple remediations, but oddly, his preceptors loved him. I suppose he was one of those people who was meant to be a good doctor by being a bad student.

What do you mean by "terrible student"? I've been told numerous times by people at my school that as long as you're passing, you shouldn't get discouraged about being below average. Apparently this student graduated so how bad can he really be?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to dismiss you!
I've always wondered how people sound at committee meetings. Can you give me some examples of what they say in them?

Yes, I could be in my lab doing research, but I also have to teach these people, and they, in turn will be touching patients, so I want the best possible student, who will be the best possible doctor. I take the process VERY seriously. People's lives and our school's reputation are at stake. We don't need to prostitute ourselves for an endowment...naming a building or a wing after someone can have the same effect. Jealous? Nonsensical! There will always be people better and worser than me. It's part of life. So spare me your faux outrage.

Aren't you voluntarily interviewing students though? I don't think it's appropriate to rant about that online. Med schools rely on donors to better their programs. You honestly sound a little jealous of their wealth and maybe they had a step up over you in life at some point but emotions aside we all have to do parts of our jobs we don't like.

 

[Ismet]

"This kid has a 3.9 gpa and a 41 mcat, but not too much volunteering, a small amount of clinical experience though...."


Ortho adcom: "Sure, but does he even lift?"

IM Primary care adcom: "He has no idea what medicine is like, reject."

Pathologist: "He sounds great! Let him in."

Administrator: "He'll raise our numbers and his family makes enough that we dont have to pay for him to come here; just accept, who cares."

MS3: "Where's the coffee??? Who drank all of the goddamn coffee??!? Was it you Gill??" Yells profanities at house plant.

I wish there was coffee at admissions meetings. ☕☕☕☕☕

 

[Doug Underhill]

I certainly acknowledge white privilege, but that is not what white privilege is. Even though my parents didn't go to college, and don't have much economic security, I am given the benefit of the doubt and certain assumptions are made about me as a white male. That is white privilege. What you described is privilege that someone of any race or ethnicity could have, although, BECAUSE of white privilege, it is another privilege that white people tend to have more of than non-whites.

It's white privilege because a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white. There may be a few people of color who also experience legacy admissions, but it's by and large a hereditary privilege held by whites in our society. What you described is also white privilege, which is a systematic injustice that manifests itself in many forms in our society.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

It's white privilege because a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white. There may be a few people of color who also experience legacy admissions, but it's by and large a hereditary privilege held by whites in our society. What you described is also white privilege, which is a systematic injustice that manifests itself in many forms in our society.

No, it is not. White privilege is something that every white person inherently has simply because they are white.

Wikipedia: White privilege (or white skin privilege) is a term for societal privileges that benefit white people beyond what is commonly experienced by non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.

The key being, "under the same social, political, or economic circumstances."

 

[Doug Underhill]

I'm pretty sure that a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white even if you control for socioeconomic circumstances, as whites have held a stranglehold on the institutions of power in America for centuries and wealthy people of color have often become wealthy comparatively recently. The legacy in legacy admissions has yet to form for these Americans. I don't have the stats to show you, but it seems very plausible.

 

[FutureFACS]

I'm curious to know the dialogue of an AdCom meeting as well! I wonder if it's anything like my fraternity's bid day. (Lol jk..)


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[PreciousHamburgers]

I'm pretty sure that a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white even if you control for socioeconomic circumstances, as whites have held a stranglehold on the institutions of power in America for centuries and wealthy people of color have often become wealthy comparatively recently. The legacy in legacy admissions has yet to form for these Americans. I don't have the stats to show you, but it seems very plausible.

But that disproportionate number is due to a history of white privilege. Being a legacy is not "white privilege" because it is not an inherent privilege white people have simply because they are white in our society, such as not being prosecuted for drug possession at the same rates as non-whites.

 

[Doug Underhill]

But that disproportionate number is due to a history of white privilege.

So, you admit that it's due to white privilege even if it's an indirect effect. I never stated it was direct.

 

[Straw Hat]

I heard at one school through a faculty member that a student only got in because they were related to the dean. The admissions committee said no way and he reversed it. That person has supposedly failed and remediated so many classes that they had to meet with a committee. Buuuut they're still in school and will eventually graduate..

 

[GUH]

It's white privilege because a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white. There may be a few people of color who also experience legacy admissions, but it's by and large a hereditary privilege held by whites in our society. What you described is also white privilege, which is a systematic injustice that manifests itself in many forms in our society.

lol Do mixed-race people also experience this privilege? Or do they only receive half-privilege? Is there a place I can go to get my white privilege measured by an expert?

 

[Pholaffle]

I can definitely see how connections can facilitate your application, maybe not as directly as you're speaking, but in other ways such as securing a position in a lab or getting shadowing experience.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

lol Do mixed-race people also experience this privilege? Or do they only receive half-privilege? Is there a place I can go to get my white privilege measured by an expert?

Privilege is invisible to those who have it.

 

[GUH]

Privilege is invisible to those who have it.

So if you're a white person who checks his privilege, then you're saying he does not in fact have white privilege since now he can see his privilege. Wow; this stuff is too complex for my understanding. Good thing I took the easy path and went to medical school rather than pursuing a graduate degree in sociology or white people studies.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

So if you're a white person who checks his privilege, then you're saying he does not in fact have white privilege since now he can see his privilege. Wow; this stuff is too complex for my understanding. Good thing I took the easy path and went to medical school rather than pursuing a graduate degree in sociology or white people studies.

No, your privilege is there whether or not you acknowledge it. White privilege is an empirically proven phenomenon, so it does not really matter what you 'believe'. Just look at prison sentence differences between white and black offenders of the same crime. Look at job applicants with identical credentials other than their race. There are plenty of examples.

You are given the benefit of the doubt. You get a certain amount of credibility just for being white.

Sorry if that upsets you.

 

[GUH]

No, your privilege is there whether or not you acknowledge it. White privilege is an empirically proven phenomenon, so it does not really matter what you 'believe'. Just look at prison sentence differences between white and black offenders of the same crime. Look at job applicants with identical credentials other than their race. There are plenty of examples.

You are given the benefit of the doubt. You get a certain amount of credibility just for being white.

Sorry if that upsets you.

Do Jews and Asians also experience this "empirically proven" privilege? What about half-minorities and half-whites?

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

Do Jews and Asians also experience this "empirically proven" privilege? What about half-minorities and half-whites?

To varying degrees, yes, for Jewish and Asians.

However, I would expect you to understand that race and ethnicity are social constructs, and that 'white privilege' is not some genetic ability. Our society views mixed race people as non-white because of deeply ingrained ideas about race. This is why Obama was the first black president and not the first mostly black president.

 

[Afford]

I'm sure that if you write a check for a large enough amount, you can get in anywhere.

 

[AlteredScale]

Aren't you voluntarily interviewing students though? I don't think it's appropriate to rant about that online. Med schools rely on donors to better their programs. You honestly sound a little jealous of their wealth and maybe they had a step up over you in life at some point but emotions aside we all have to do parts of our jobs we don't like. I'm sure you probably make their interviews absolute hell compared to others anyways. talking poorly about your dean and boss online is not a smart move.

And so pushing through a subpar student off the waitlist into acceptance is the key to bettering programs? Not only is that wrong but it's blatantly unfair to the entire admissions process. Idk how you don't see that.

Are you really giving admissions faculty who has years of experience on SDN advice on how to behave on SDN?

 

[deleted407021]

And so pushing through a subpar student off the waitlist into acceptance is the key to bettering programs? Not only is that wrong but it's blatantly unfair to the entire admissions process. Idk how you don't see that.

Are you really giving admissions faculty who has years of experience on SDN advice on how to behave on SDN?

This is pre allo. Where professionals go to be told how to do their jobs and where everyone else goes to be given cancer.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

To varying degrees, yes, for Jewish and Asians.

However, I would expect you to understand that race and ethnicity are social constructs, and that 'white privilege' is not some genetic ability. Our society views mixed race people as non-white because of deeply ingrained ideas about race. This is why Obama was the first black president and not the first mostly black president.

I think its called the one drop rule or something. That's why tiger is consider black and not a cablasian or w/e.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

And so pushing through a subpar student off the waitlist into acceptance is the key to bettering programs? Not only is that wrong but it's blatantly unfair to the entire admissions process. Idk how you don't see that.

Are you really giving admissions faculty who has years of experience on SDN advice on how to behave on SDN?

I actually don't have a problem with legacy or some people getting special treatment. (No problems with urm also). Its not a meritocracy. Especially if the applicant has the grades anyway. The fact is its the schools decisions who they want to take so if they want to take someone who is a child of a donor its their school let them do what they want.

 

[AlteredScale]

This is pre allo. Where professionals go to be told how to do their jobs and where everyone else goes to be given cancer.

Everyone is a wizard here Harry.

Astounding that poster detects an OUNCE of jealousy from Goro, what's there to be jealous about in the first place??

As to avoid derailing this thread. The lab I worked in was adjacent to the lab of the dean of admissions at my alma matter. I had a colleague who worked in said lab for about 3 years. You would think he had the best connection ever but nope. He was rejected.

In all honesty it's all about politics, which IMO shouldn't happen. But connections do wonders as @DoctorSynthesis has said and we can't really control.

 

[Goro]

Tell that to my Asian students, who are typically emigrants or 1st generation Americans, and who are over-represented in medical school, as a proportion to their numbers in the US population. Privilege, my butt. These kids and their families worked hard to get where they are..

It's white privilege because a disproportionate amount of legacy admissions are white. There may be a few people of color who also experience legacy admissions, but it's by and large a hereditary privilege held by whites in our society. What you described is also white privilege, which is a systematic injustice that manifests itself in many forms in our society.

 

[Sportsdude89]

the comments were inappropriate. In the same way you are suggesting adcoms to be as transparent as possible I hope they extricate their own personal biases when assessing or interviewing an applicant. This is proof how rigged the whole process is.oh and it doesn't take an MD to realize when someone has crossed the line. I think goro is extremely helpful for many topics though.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Met the perfect applicant on paper today who has loads of interviews and acceptances. He refuses to work with people with stds. you need to do a better job of sifting out the gold diggers going into medicine.

 

[Hockeyguy]

Just cruising around the forums and I remember felling this way in the late 90's early 2000's. Med school admission is a grind and can seem especially daunting if your parents weren't docs and you weren't entirely familiar with the culture. I was convinced I was being kept out because an interviewer asked if my mother or father was a physician. In the end it all matters little. I found that out when I sat on the admission committee. If you have the goods and aren't crazy you'll land somewhere. Good luck.

 

[Chipster.]

Met the perfect applicant on paper today who has loads of interviews and acceptances. He refuses to work with people with stds. you need to do a better job of sifting out the gold diggers going into medicine.

You need to stop telling adcoms how to do their jobs.

Also it's illegal to refuse to work with people with std's. He won't have a choice.

 

[Psai]

Met the perfect applicant on paper today who has loads of interviews and acceptances. He refuses to work with people with stds. you need to do a better job of sifting out the gold diggers going into medicine.

cool story bro

 

[MrChance2]

I think a lot of students overestimate their "connections" though. If you share the same last name as a wing of the school or a mom that is the dean then that is one thing. Having a cousin that is a part time professor or family friend who is buddies with someone in administration won't get an inept candidate in from what I've seen. "knowing somebody who knows somebody" as the OP states won't really do jack unless you had a good shot at getting in anyway. There are just to many people asking for favors.

 

[dlqo0oplb]

Had a friend knows adcom and got the interview. But, rejected afterwards