DO/PhD's: who are they and what do they do?

[stmclovin]

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I am curious on whether these guys are invovled in research and what is an advantage of having a PhD in sciences in addition to DO? I know some DO schools offer this degree but I am not sure what is an advantage of having a PhD degree? Would PhD degree open up more residency doors? Can anyone input on this?

 

[DrWBD]

Having a PhD likely won't give you an advantage in obtaining a residency. DO/PhD's and MD/PhD's tend to be involved more in academic medicine and research, though not always. There was a DO/PhD who taught at my med school, but he was the only one there with the dual degree.

 

[Jpc984]

What is the advantage of getting your MD or DO if you are going to do academic medicine. Can't a PhD do everything a MD or DO can do when it comes to research?

 

[DrWBD]

What is the advantage of getting your MD or DO if you are going to do academic medicine. Can't a PhD do everything a MD or DO can do when it comes to research?

Well, they can't legally perform physical exams or prescribe study meds without a medical degree. Though, if you're just in an animal lab all day or teaching full time, this might not be an issue.

 

[prionsRbad]

What is the advantage of getting your MD or DO if you are going to do academic medicine. Can't a PhD do everything a MD or DO can do when it comes to research?

Only having a PhD = No clinical trials (needed for most big academic research), unless you are collaborating with a MD or DO.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Having a PhD likely won't give you an advantage in obtaining a residency. DO/PhD's and MD/PhD's tend to be involved more in academic medicine and research, though not always. There was a DO/PhD who taught at my med school, but he was the only one there with the dual degree.

I disagree.

Many of the top programs in competitive residencies (Derm, Rads, Rad Onc, Ophtho, etc) prefer MD/PhD's b/c of their academic/research background.

In fact, a MD/PhD with average Step 1 scores (~220's) is more likely to do better in the match vs a straight MD with the same board score.

I'm willing to bet a DO/PhD is not much different. So IMO, if you can hack it, get the PhD alongside your DO b/c it can only help you during the residency process.

 

[Isoprop]

i still think it'd be completely overkill to obtain a phd just to match in a competitive residency. the exception, i believe, is rad onc since something like 376.2% of the people who match in that program have phds.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

i still think it'd be completely overkill to obtain a phd just to match in a competitive residency. the exception, i believe, is rad onc since something like 376.2% of the people who match in that program have phds.

I agree.

Doing a PhD "just" to get into a competitive residency is clearly foolish. Many straight MDs/DOs land spots in top programs with exceptional applications and yet no PhD.

My post is for someone who's already considering the dual degree program for other reasons but needs an added incentive -- PhD helping in getting into top programs.

 

[OHMAN0125]

I agree.

Doing a PhD "just" to get into a competitive residency is clearly foolish. Many straight MDs/DOs land spots in top programs with exceptional applications and yet no PhD.

My post is for someone who's already considering the dual degree program for other reasons but needs an added incentive -- PhD helping in getting into top programs.

Don't know about DO/PHD but I'm sure it's prolly about the same; I know MD/PHD's can have "fasttrack" spots in IM fellowships. In other words, an IM program will save a spot for you in Cardiology, GI, Hem/Onc, etc. if you have a research and good grades. You dont need to apply again to the fellowship which can be painful

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

There have been about 3 or 4 DO/PhDs who have lectured to us, also a DO/JD Urologist. Talking about overkill, our chairmen of clinical education is a DO/JD/MBA! I only know one DO/PhD student personally and he is hoping to match into an allopathic surgery residency next week.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Well --- let's see....

a few make a big deal about applying a thoracic/abdominal pump to a dog and monitoring the increased lympathic flow as a major achievement in research (spending all those taxpayer dollars, don't ya know) --- but I think that experiment was set up by a 3rd year D.O/Ph.D candidate (i.e. 3rd year student)....

Others lecture about cranial all over the known planet....

Other than that, I'm not too sure what they do...

 

[drusso]

Well --- let's see....

a few make a big deal about applying a thoracic/abdominal pump to a dog and monitoring the increased lympathic flow as a major achievement in research (spending all those taxpayer dollars, don't ya know) --- but I think that experiment was set up by a 3rd year D.O/Ph.D candidate (i.e. 3rd year student)....

Others lecture about cranial all over the known planet....

Other than that, I'm not too sure what they do...

What about other immune-mediated effects of OMT?

 

[DrJekyl]

I hear Do/PhDs just sit around all day practicing cranial manipulation on lab mice, but only the ones with little hands are good at it.

 

[stmclovin]

I think OMT needs to have some data backing it. I know there are reports out there but there is always room for more. I think it is just a matter of analysis. Someone just have to get ahold of patient data and crunch some numbers in.

 

[DrWBD]

I disagree.

Many of the top programs in competitive residencies (Derm, Rads, Rad Onc, Ophtho, etc) prefer MD/PhD's b/c of their academic/research background.

In fact, a MD/PhD with average Step 1 scores (~220's) is more likely to do better in the match vs a straight MD with the same board score.

I'm willing to bet a DO/PhD is not much different. So IMO, if you can hack it, get the PhD alongside your DO b/c it can only help you during the residency process.

It appears that your perceptions don't match reality.

From the NRMP website:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

Overall, there was little difference in the match rates of U.S. seniors who did and did not have graduate degrees (14.3% versus 14.8%). A slightly higher percentage of matched U.S. seniors had Ph.D.s (4.0% vs. 2.8%), and a slightly higher percentage of unmatched U.S. seniors had other graduate degrees (12.0% vs. 10.3%). Chart 7 shows by preferred specialty the percentage of matched applicants who have a graduate degree. Radiation Oncology had the highest percentage (27%) and Transitional Year the lowest (10%). Radiation Oncology, Anatomic and Clinical Pathology, Dermatology, and Neurology had the highest percentages of matched applicants with Ph.D.s and Emergency Medicine, Orthopaedic Surgery, and Internal Medicine/Pediatrics had the highest percentages with other graduate degrees.

In other words, even in Rad-Onc, where MD/PhD's are disproportionately represented, they are still the minority. 73% of matched Rad-Onc residents do not have a PhD or other graduate degree.

 

[DrJekyl]

In other words, even in Rad-Onc, where MD/PhD's are disproportionately represented, they are still the minority. 73% of matched Rad-Onc residents do not have a PhD or other graduate degree.

How many Rad-Onc applicants had PhDs, and how many applicants with PhDs were denied the residency? It would be better to look at the percentage of MD/PhDs that matched into one of their top three programs vs. the percent of MDs that matched with overwise similar applications.

 

[DrWBD]

How many Rad-Onc applicants had PhDs, and how many applicants with PhDs were denied the residency? It would be better to look at the percentage of MD/PhDs that matched into one of their top three programs vs. the percent of MDs that matched with overwise similar applications.

Interesting questions. Now all you have to do is some research to find data to answer your questions. A process which, as a PhD student, you should be familiar with. 😉

 

[DrJekyl]

Interesting questions. Now all you have to do is some research to find data to answer your questions. A process which, as a PhD student, you should be familiar with. 😉

Haha.