DO placement in MD residencies

[Hatman]

Anyone know of a website where it lists the percentage of DO's that enter MD residencies? I tried looking up residencies of Rad/Onc, Hem/Onc and Surgery and all three were an abysmal 3-5%. What gives? I know that DO's specialize in practically any specialty but it seems that IM is really the only thing that stands out to be more than likely. Am I completely wrong and can someone clear this crap up? Thanks guys, I owe you one.

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[gildas]

Anyone know of a website where it lists the percentage of DO's that enter MD residencies? I tried looking up residencies of Rad/Onc, Hem/Onc and Surgery and all three were an abysmal 3-5%. What gives? I know that DO's specialize in practically any specialty but it seems that IM is really the only thing that stands out to be more than likely. Am I completely wrong and can someone clear this crap up? Thanks guys, I owe you one.

It is about 50%
Check this sites http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/
http://www.nrmp.org/advancedata2007.pdf

 

[Taus]

Anyone know of a website where it lists the percentage of DO's that enter MD residencies? I tried looking up residencies of Rad/Onc, Hem/Onc and Surgery and all three were an abysmal 3-5%. What gives? I know that DO's specialize in practically any specialty but it seems that IM is really the only thing that stands out to be more than likely. Am I completely wrong and can someone clear this crap up? Thanks guys, I owe you one.

Hatman, DO's only make up around 5-6% of Physicians, so you shouldn't expect much more then that in an individual specialty....ie 20 MD's:1 DO is a 1:1 ratio. If you see much more then that then its actually an OVER-representation.

 

[group_theory]

One thing to keep in mind as you look at numbers ... people who have the grades, talent, etc. would usually apply to both AOA and NRMP match ... and since the AOA match is a month before the NRMP, they are more likely to match into an AOA program (and automatically get pulled from the NRMP match).

That is why you don't see a lot of DOs going into MD orthopedic surgery, but a lot end up in DO orthopedic surgery spots. Same for surgery. Rad/Onc is just hard to get, MD or DO (and there is no DO rad/onc program).

 

[Dr JPH]

Agree with above. Surgery and surgical subspecialties is where osteopathic education is still extraordinarily strong and uber-competitive. The DOs who match into the top osteopathic surgical spots do so out of choice of program over MD spots, as opposed to settling for that spot.

The same cannot be said across the board unfortunately.

 

[Taty]

Agree with above. Surgery and surgical subspecialties is where osteopathic education is still extraordinarily strong and uber-competitive. The DOs who match into the top osteopathic surgical spots do so out of choice of program over MD spots, as opposed to settling for that spot.

The same cannot be said across the board unfortunately.

Which are strong general surgery osteopathic programs??? I know know one is PCOM What about at NYCOM is it strong?

 

[cuddlepuppy]

no beef at all with osteopathic surgical programs, but if you want to pursue an academic career then allopathic programs are a good option.

my experience is with ortho programs, but generally osteopathic = a lot of surgical experience/hands on but little formal didactics/research vs. allopathic = variable surgical experience but a lot of formal didactics/research.

so...it depends on what you want out of it. both programs will train you to be a competent general orthopod/surgeon but an osteopathic program may limit you from an academic career.

just my thoughts.

 

[DocWagner]

I did a allopathic EM residency.

Please go to www.aaem.org in the student/resident section to find an article I helped write

 

[Dr JPH]

no beef at all with osteopathic surgical programs, but if you want to pursue an academic career then allopathic programs are a good option.

my experience is with ortho programs, but generally osteopathic = a lot of surgical experience/hands on but little formal didactics/research vs. allopathic = variable surgical experience but a lot of formal didactics/research.

so...it depends on what you want out of it. both programs will train you to be a competent general orthopod/surgeon but an osteopathic program may limit you from an academic career.

just my thoughts.

Your experiences but not necessarily true across the board.

My program requires research. We also have weekly didactic sessions just like all of the allopathic programs in the city. We also have formal training on robotic trauma simulators as well as training on a laparascopic surgical simulator (something most allopathic programs do NOT have).

DOs have our own surgical conferences just like the MDs. These include research symposia as well as lectures, demos, drug reps, etc.

Also, if you want to go into academics...well, there are 25+ DO schools that need surgeons in an academic capacity, not to mention clinical instructors for DO schools as well as DO residencies.

Lets do the numbers:

There are 250 Allopathic General Surgery residencies. Lets assume 6 residents per class (catergorical) = 1,250 allopathic residency grads per year (some will be DOs)

There are 40 Osteopathic General Surgery residencies. 6 residents per class (categorical) = 240 osteopathic residency grads per year

So of the graduating general surgeons on an annual basis (MD & DO) 20% of them will be DOs. Not bad when we make up roughly 10% of the physician population. Many osteopathic surgical residency grads go into subspecialty training as well (vascular, plastics, colorectal, trauma). In fact, some programs send 85%+ of their grads on to further training, both in allopathic and osteopathic programs.

SO I agree...if you want an academic spot at an allopathic institution, being an MD will generally help you...although DOs do hold academic positions at lots of larger allopathic medical schools and hospitals. (at least in Philadelphia)

You need to look at each program individually.

The PCOM program:
- requires research
- has formal didactic sessions
- trains their residents on a laparascopic simulator
- rotates residents through Memorial Sloan Kettering, Geisinger, Cooper, etc
- send nearly 90% of their grads into fellowship training

You cant tell me that I am going to be at a disadvantage in any sense.

 

[Taty]

Your experiences but not necessarily true across the board.

My program requires research. We also have weekly didactic sessions just like all of the allopathic programs in the city. We also have formal training on robotic trauma simulators as well as training on a laparascopic surgical simulator (something most allopathic programs do NOT have).

DOs have our own surgical conferences just like the MDs. These include research symposia as well as lectures, demos, drug reps, etc.

Also, if you want to go into academics...well, there are 25+ DO schools that need surgeons in an academic capacity, not to mention clinical instructors for DO schools as well as DO residencies.

Lets do the numbers:

There are 250 Allopathic General Surgery residencies. Lets assume 6 residents per class (catergorical) = 1,250 allopathic residency grads per year (some will be DOs)

There are 40 Osteopathic General Surgery residencies. 6 residents per class (categorical) = 240 osteopathic residency grads per year

So of the graduating general surgeons on an annual basis (MD & DO) 20% of them will be DOs. Not bad when we make up roughly 10% of the physician population. Many osteopathic surgical residency grads go into subspecialty training as well (vascular, plastics, colorectal, trauma). In fact, some programs send 85%+ of their grads on to further training, both in allopathic and osteopathic programs.

SO I agree...if you want an academic spot at an allopathic institution, being an MD will generally help you...although DOs do hold academic positions at lots of larger allopathic medical schools and hospitals. (at least in Philadelphia)

You need to look at each program individually.

The PCOM program:
- requires research
- has formal didactic sessions
- trains their residents on a laparascopic simulator
- rotates residents through Memorial Sloan Kettering, Geisinger, Cooper, etc
- send nearly 90% of their grads into fellowship training

You cant tell me that I am going to be at a disadvantage in any sense.

 

[cuddlepuppy]

no disadvantage by any means going to a DO program for surgery. and you're right, what I wrote were pretty broad generalizations. DO programs can be very academic heavy such as your ortho program and many MD programs are community programs with little to no research/formal didactics. just trying to give an overall picture that's all.

the bottom line i was trying to give was. DO programs are made for us and they will train you to be an excellent community surgeon in whatever sub-specialty. but if you want to be on the cutting edge, you need to be in an academic institution (university affiliated) which most DO programs are not (true some are, like PCOM).

if anything, i think many DO students could be great applicants to MD programs...and shouldn't be intimidated. didn't mean to stir things up, just shouting out my thoughts.

CP

 

[Dr JPH]

no disadvantage by any means going to a DO program for surgery. and you're right, what I wrote were pretty broad generalizations. DO programs can be very academic heavy such as your ortho program and many MD programs are community programs with little to no research/formal didactics. just trying to give an overall picture that's all.

the bottom line i was trying to give was. DO programs are made for us and they will train you to be an excellent community surgeon in whatever sub-specialty. but if you want to be on the cutting edge, you need to be in an academic institution (university affiliated) which most DO programs are not (true some are, like PCOM).

if anything, i think many DO students could be great applicants to MD programs...and shouldn't be intimidated. didn't mean to stir things up, just shouting out my thoughts.

CP

I see where you are coming from.

I think its important for us DOs to seek out the programs that send you to the cutting edge facilities. PCOM sends us to Memorial Sloan Kettering...the #1 Cancer hospital in the WORLD.

We do our CT surgery at a hospital that only does cardiopulm.

We do our trauma at a hospital that sees a dozen trauma alerts/day.