Do pod students recieve sub par training in medical rotations?

[244869]

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I know that pod students rotate through the hospital side by side with MD/DO students. From what I have heard the major rotations are EM, IM, and surg. What was your experience like? Where you treated on par with med students or was your training watered down?

The reason I ask this is because my brother just started his 2nd year in EM residency. He has pods rotate through the ED and he mentioned that they do a "fast track" rotation. He also made it sound like residents/physicians don't expect pods to know much above the knee and treat them differently. Is this the way it is everywhere?

If this is in fact true then what do you guys think of the push for pods to take the USMLE? Would you feel underprepared because of the sub par clinical training?

 

[JEWmongous]

I know that pod students rotate through the hospital side by side with MD/DO students. From what I have heard the major rotations are EM, IM, and surg. What was your experience like? Where you treated on par with med students or was your training watered down?

The reason I ask this is because my brother just started his 2nd year in EM residency. He has pods rotate through the ED and he mentioned that they do a "fast track" rotation. He also made it sound like residents/physicians don't expect pods to know much above the knee and treat them differently. Is this the way it is everywhere?

If this is in fact true then what do you guys think of the push for pods to take the USMLE? Would you feel underprepared because of the sub par clinical training?

I know I'm not in school yet but my buddies at OCPM told me they do an H & P rotation at a community hospital. It's in the ER, but at the "fast track" part of it.

 

[phillypd]

pods seem to get the short end of the stick on everything......

 

[PodunkUDPM]

What are you even asking about? In school or in residencies????

 

[244869]

What are you even asking about? In school or in residencies????

Not that hard to read my post...but anyways.

In school hospital rotations...
Do pod students recieve sub par training in medical rotations?
What was your experience like?
Where you treated on par with med students or was your training watered down?

Is this the way it is everywhere?...meaning do some hospitals treat you the same as med students or not?

If this is in fact true...
then what do you guys think of the push for pods to take the USMLE?
Would you feel underprepared because of the sub par clinical training?

 

[mildoc2016]

Not that hard to read my post...but anyways.

In school hospital rotations...
Do pod students recieve sub par training in medical rotations?
What was your experience like?
Where you treated on par with med students or was your training watered down?

Is this the way it is everywhere?...meaning do some hospitals treat you the same as med students or not?

If this is in fact true...
then what do you guys think of the push for pods to take the USMLE?
Would you feel underprepared because of the sub par clinical training?

It is true that we are not expected to know much about anything beyond our scope of practice, but other specialties are often suprised by about how much we know. Just think, if you took an MD student and asked them to treat a bunion they may not know the specifics but just the generalalties etc. At south pointe, yes i learned alot, and we were not expected to know as much as the MD students etc. But for example when a patient came to the ER for a painful callous, the PA we were with did not feel comfortable with trimming down the offending callous----- so really its all about the scope of practice, you should also learn as much as you can because youll never know when it will come in handy .. .... i wouldnt say the clinical training is sub par just directed in a different direction and should be more mainstreamed

 

[244869]

It is true that we are not expected to know much about anything beyond our scope of practice, but other specialties are often suprised by about how much we know. Just think, if you took an MD student and asked them to treat a bunion they may not know the specifics but just the generalalties etc. At south pointe, yes i learned alot, and we were not expected to know as much as the MD students etc. But for example when a patient came to the ER for a painful callous, the PA we were with did not feel comfortable with trimming down the offending callous----- so really its all about the scope of practice, you should also learn as much as you can because youll never know when it will come in handy .. .... i wouldnt say the clinical training is sub par just directed in a different direction and should be more mainstreamed

How do you feel then about possibly taking the USMLE as some...namely westernu and supposedly vision 2015...want to do? Would you feel adequately prepared?

 

[mildoc2016]

As for the USMLe- i will be graduating in 2010 and was educated to be able to pass the NPMBE examinations parts I, II, and III Just last week members of the class of 2011 at ocpm took a mock USMLE provided by the testing servcie that runs the USMLE,

so no i would not feel prepared. Just as I would have to review and study for board exams i would have to review and study specifically for the USMLe. ocpm has recently revamped its curriculum starting with the incoming class of first years and I would so they would be the most prepared. ocpm has added classed specifically to address deficiencies in the pod med curriculum to make it on a more equal par with md/do schools

my view of 2015 is that it is a good one, it is always a good thing to raise the bar for medicine for all, but in regards to podiatry- we specialize faster than md and do students, if i had wanted to i could have gone to medical school and then specialized in pod med etx-- ie done ortho and did a foot and ankle fellowship

i believe it would raise the awarness and respect for us as well

 

[Feli]

A lot depends if your 3rd and 4th year medical rotations are at teaching institutions or just community hospitals, VAs, etc. If you are at teaching hospitals (residency programs, many affiliations with MD/DO schools, etc), you will probably be expected to do quite a bit. If you are at community hospitals, the docs aren't really focused on teaching, and you will have to make a point to learn... ask questions, show interest and give clues that you can - and want to - be more involved, etc.

I did a mix of both types of hospitals in my 3rd year med rotations (4th year at Barry is all pod: clerkships or clinic)... saw my own patients with resident/attending supervision, charted, did rounds,etc. The experiences were all comparable to MD/DO students, but the ER, path, anesth, etc knew what my future specialty was, and they let me preferrentially cherry pick any foot ankle patients, specimens, or surgical cases.

General med rotations are all fine and good IMO, but it's not like MD/DO students where you don't know what specialty you'll be able to match into. You have to remember as a DPM student that you already know what you'll be a specialist in, what pathologies you will need to be the expert on, and what you'll be doing for a living when all is said and done.

 

[ThetaChiNAU]

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[244869]

As for the USMLe- i will be graduating in 2010 and was educated to be able to pass the NPMBE examinations parts I, II, and III Just last week members of the class of 2011 at ocpm took a mock USMLE provided by the testing servcie that runs the USMLE,

so no i would not feel prepared. Just as I would have to review and study for board exams i would have to review and study specifically for the USMLe. ocpm has recently revamped its curriculum starting with the incoming class of first years and I would so they would be the most prepared. ocpm has added classed specifically to address deficiencies in the pod med curriculum to make it on a more equal par with md/do schools

👍 great post...very informative. A couple of questions tho...what exactly are pod schools doing to prepare their students to post competitive scores on the USMLE? I know you mentioned a revamped curriculum...can you be more specific? Did they also revamp the clinical curriculum?

General med rotations are all fine and good IMO, but it's not like MD/DO students where you don't know what specialty you'll be able to match into. You have to remember as a DPM student that you already know what you'll be a specialist in, what pathologies you will need to be the expert on, and what you'll be doing for a living when all is said and done.

👍 another great post. I understand that pods specialize now rather than later so it would make sense to be able to get first dibs on foot/ankle cases but wouldn't this negatively impact pods if we are to be expected to take the USMLE which I assume covers medicine as a whole?

Keep these posts coming! I think this topic should be on every pod students minds...current and future.

 

[dropfoot]

"if we are to be expected to take the USMLE which I assume covers medicine as a whole?"

DPMhopeful
I am not quite sure where you are getting the info that Podiatry is pushing towards taking the USMLE. If it is from vision 2015, i think that you are taking it out of context. From what i understand (and please correct me if i'm wrong), there is nothing in vision 2015 that specifically states that we will be expected to pass the USMLE.

Not that i think that taking the USMLE would be a bad thing, but i think that they are referring to the expansion of our own exam to cover medicine a bit more broadly; which would help to close the parity gap.

 

[244869]

"if we are to be expected to take the USMLE which I assume covers medicine as a whole?"

DPMhopeful
I am not quite sure where you are getting the info that Podiatry is pushing towards taking the USMLE. If it is from vision 2015, i think that you are taking it out of context. From what i understand (and please correct me if i'm wrong), there is nothing in vision 2015 that specifically states that we will be expected to pass the USMLE.

Not that i think that taking the USMLE would be a bad thing, but i think that they are referring to the expansion of our own exam to cover medicine a bit more broadly; which would help to close the parity gap.

Westernu will be preparing their pod students to take the USMLE, california will allow pods to either take the usmle or the current boards. OCPM had the class of 2011 take a practice usmle a couple of weeks ago. There is a push for pods to take the USMLE and it seems like this will be fact in the coming years.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

Westernu will be preparing their pod students to take the USMLE, california will allow pods to either take the usmle or the current boards. OCPM had the class of 2011 take a practice usmle a couple of weeks ago. There is a push for pods to take the USMLE and it seems like this will be fact in the coming years.

I hope you realize this test will provide actual number scores, not just pass/fail like our own boards. Some of these ******s we let in pod schools are gonna do awful on the USMLE and kill our average scores. Probably just give more flak for MD/DO's to limit our scope of practice and to kill expansions. It's an easy argument "the DPM's have a subpar average on the medical boards, subpar admissions stats, too much outpatient rotations...do you really want this person to operate on you??? Shi* no

Also, we better add in some hardcore OB/GYN to our coursework (Supposedly ohio is adding women's health). This is on the USMLE and pod students learn very little about this.

 

[dropfoot]

Westernu will be preparing their pod students to take the USMLE, california will allow pods to either take the usmle or the current boards. OCPM had the class of 2011 take a practice usmle a couple of weeks ago. There is a push for pods to take the USMLE and it seems like this will be fact in the coming years.

If this pans out, i think that it will great for Podiatry.👍

 

[244869]

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[ThetaChiNAU]

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[lojick]

This is exactly what I am worried about. Hence why I started this thread. If we are to become competitive in the USMLE...pod schools will basically need to become medical schools...same classes and same clinicals. What are pod schools doing to achieve this?

dpmhopeful
you seem to have many questions/ worries about podiatry and it's future. i'll attempt to address all of them the best i can.

-usmle and preparation: although there has been talk of converting from the nbpme to the usmle, it is still just talk. however, if the change would ever occur, the current curriculum will not have to change much. contrary to what i've read earlier in this post, you will receive didactics on par w/ md and do student. i have just finished my first year @ temple, and our professors(which are the same faculty from temple med) were extremely comprehensive. we are expected to know just as much. the only changes that would be made to the curriculum would be the addition of ob/gyn and psychiatry, which our schools would adapt and the cpme will enforce. in the end, nbpme, uslme, nbome, they are all still just tests...study for them appropriately and move on to the next challenge...

-hospital rotations: a professor this year could not have said it better "some do and some don't". regardless what professional degree, your going to have rotations that are really good and really bad and somewhere in between. again, if you happen to end up in bad one, make the best of it... get as much as u can out of it and move on.

-vision 2015: ahhh.... parity, national scope of practice.... (did you know pt's have vision 2020? they will be autonomous to doctors) how it will be achieved is something that no one is sure. you will here many things... dpm will merge w/ md degree, usmle boards, nbpme reform. all are just ideas with mixed support. in the end, it's about getting recognized and compensated equally with other healthcare providers.

A year ago, i was exactly where you were. i had alot of questions and i wanted answers. keep asking q's but don't let this be your only resource. seek out dpm's, talk to students in person, visit a residency program. navigate through the bs and arrive @ your own conclusion.


now that i am looking at podiatry from the perspective of a student, i have a whole new set of questions...

my insomnia has worn off...hope it was helpful

 

[NormColeman4MN]

dpmhopeful
you seem to have many questions/ worries about podiatry and it's future. i'll attempt to address all of them the best i can.

-usmle and preparation: although there has been talk of converting from the nbpme to the usmle, it is still just talk. however, if the change would ever occur, the current curriculum will not have to change much. contrary to what i've read earlier in this post, you will receive didactics on par w/ md and do student. i have just finished my first year @ temple, and our professors(which are the same faculty from temple med) were extremely comprehensive. we are expected to know just as much. the only changes that would be made to the curriculum would be the addition of ob/gyn and psychiatry, which our schools would adapt and the cpme will enforce. in the end, nbpme, uslme, nbome, they are all still just tests...study for them appropriately and move on to the next challenge...

-hospital rotations: a professor this year could not have said it better "some do and some don't". regardless what professional degree, your going to have rotations that are really good and really bad and somewhere in between. again, if you happen to end up in bad one, make the best of it... get as much as u can out of it and move on.

-vision 2015: ahhh.... parity, national scope of practice.... (did you know pt's have vision 2020? they will be autonomous to doctors) how it will be achieved is something that no one is sure. you will here many things... dpm will merge w/ md degree, usmle boards, nbpme reform. all are just ideas with mixed support. in the end, it's about getting recognized and compensated equally with other healthcare providers.

A year ago, i was exactly where you were. i had alot of questions and i wanted answers. keep asking q's but don't let this be your only resource. seek out dpm's, talk to students in person, visit a residency program. navigate through the bs and arrive @ your own conclusion.


now that i am looking at podiatry from the perspective of a student, i have a whole new set of questions...

my insomnia has worn off...hope it was helpful

Maybe we can have mandatory medicine rotations like the MD/DO's (they have minimum 6 weeks gen surgery, 4 weeks EM, 4 weeks psych, etc). There seems to be a wide range in the non-podiatry rotations during DPM school. You go from Ohio with a month of fast track ER at a community hospital & lead by a PA to California where they are doing a month of Internal Medicine at a teaching hospital and working with MD/DO students. People can argue that we do this during residency, but, MD/DO's do this in their 3rd and 4th year!

Anyone a 3rd/4th year at arizona? They follow the pattern closest to DO school, in both lectures and rotations. Maybe they can fill us in on how it works with their clinicals.

 

[umass319]

This conversation really has to keep going. It's tough to define podiatry right now, or say with confidence where it's going, but I think this USMLE talk gives some indication. With that in mind and with specific regards to this topic, can a senior member please tell me what the hell podiatry is? And I ask that in all seriousness. Is podiatry either, 1) An offshoot of allopathic medicine that has taken the allopathic/MD/mainstream approach to the foot and ankle and made a 4yr school out of it (I hear a lot of things like, "podiatry school is simply for people who decide early and are absolutely certain that they want to specialize in F&A" when referring to the difference between pod school and med school that assume this is true) 2) Podiatry is a form of medicine that is independent of the allopathic and osteopathic forms of medicine; it's a standalone kind of medicine that can't really be compared to anything except maybe dentistry in the sense that it is distinctly not medicine in the mainstream sense, but still qualifies as a form of medicine since it legitimately treats disorders with medications or surgery or 3) Something else along those lines.

If the answer is not something similar to 1, above, then what right do podiatrists have trying to take the USMLE? If the answer is something similar to 2, then take a look at the current state of dentistry and ask yourself how they got there; they took a very different approach relative to what the APMA is currently undertaking. Remember, dentists have their own boards and their schools have their own specific entrance exam (DAT), which raises another question: if the answer is not 1, above, what right do pod schools have requiring the MCAT? How does that even make sense? I can see the only answer being, "hey, the requirements the allopathic and osteopathic medical schools see fit for them sort of overlap with the ideals of our form of medicine, so why not"

Ok, I could just be wasting my time if 1 is accurate. Someone set me straight.

 

[whiskers]

It is very possible that pod students and residents receive sub par training if and when they sit in the corner with their arms crossed and state,

"I am only a podiatrist, I don't need to know that stuff."

Or

Accept it when a physician tasked with teaching them says something similar and is lazy and doesn't teach the pod student/resident..

As a Podiatric physician you should be able to both speak about general health problems as well as in depth leg, foot and ankle conditions.

If you don't know your general medicine and anatomy, you really need to learn it so as not to embarass yourself in front of your patients and medical peers.

 

[NormColeman4MN]

It is very possible that pod students and residents receive sub par training if and when they sit in the corner with their arms crossed and state,

"I am only a podiatrist, I don't need to know that stuff."

Or

Accept it when a physician tasked with teaching them says something similar and is lazy and doesn't teach the pod student/resident..

As a Podiatric physician you should be able to both speak about general health problems as well as in depth leg, foot and ankle conditions.

If you don't know your general medicine and anatomy, you really need to learn it so as not to embarass yourself in front of your patients and medical peers.

Word, I agree. To all you pod kiddies out there, learn your shi* and do not make me & more importantly, the profession look bad. This especially goes for all you accepted with ****ty GPA's and sub 20 MCAT scores, if you make it far enough for clinicals.