DO Residency Question

[ChiDoc27]

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I just was wondering if a student participates/completes an osteopathic residency instead of an allopathic one, would he/she be able to practice in any hospital or participate in an allopathic fellowship once he/she graduates from that program? For example, if a doctor does her residency at PCOM in say, pediatrics, would she be able to apply for allopathic fellowships or would she be restrained to osteopathic ones? Also, if she completed a residency at PCOM, would she be able to practice in any hospital in the country? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I just was wondering if a student participates/completes an osteopathic residency instead of an allopathic one, would he/she be able to practice in any hospital or participate in an allopathic fellowship once he/she graduates from that program? For example, if a doctor does her residency at PCOM in say, pediatrics, would she be able to apply for allopathic fellowships or would she be restrained to osteopathic ones? Also, if she completed a residency at PCOM, would she be able to practice in any hospital in the country? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

The question isn't stupid if you don't know the answer.

 

[DrMidlife]

DO urology to extremely competitive ACGME peds urology: http://www.childrensmemorial.org/findadoc/bios.aspx?id=1689&searchID=541033

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

She did 2yrs residency at PCOM then did her next 3 at Albert Einstein. (Isn't AECOM allopathic?)

 

[DrMidlife]

She did 2yrs residency at PCOM then did her next 3 at Albert Einstein. (Isn't AECOM allopathic?)

"Albert Einstein" is the name applied to a large number of schools, programs, hospitals etc; AECOM does not own his name. Particularly if the hospital is in Philadelphia, as is the case with Dr. Hagerty.

However, her surg residency was probably ACGME; her additional urology residency was AOA. The Einstein med center in Philly has AOA residencies, but currently not surg. I don't know how to find out if they offered AOA surg 8 years ago.

Working backwards in her ed section:

"Internship, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, 1999-2000"
-> this is a traditional rotating internship

"Residency in surgery, Albert Einstein Medical Center, Philadelphia, 2000-2002"
-> surgery residency, probably ACGME

Residency in urology, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, 2002-2005;
-> ...and then an AOA urology residency

Fellowship in pediatric urology, Children's Memorial Hospital, 2005-2007;
-> this she scored against top-tier ACGME urology residents

I thought this was a clean example for the OP, but it's not.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I've always wondered how the fellowship thing worked ...

I mean, can someone who completed an AOA residency in say general surg, apply for allopathic plastic fellowships or would this not work because AOA isnt ACGME.

On the other hand, if someone attended a DO school and completed an allo g surg residency, would they not be able to apply for DO plastic fellowships???

(note: I'm not asking because I want plastics, it's just the most common fellowship example I could think of).

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I've always wondered how the fellowship thing worked ...

I mean, can someone who completed an AOA residency in say general surg, apply for allopathic plastic fellowships or would this not work because AOA isnt ACGME.

On the other hand, if someone attended a DO school and completed an allo g surg residency, would they not be able to apply for DO plastic fellowships???

(note: I'm not asking because I want plastics, it's just the most common fellowship example I could think of).

You made me curious, so I asked my boss. She's in charge of finding potential fellows and helping choose who gets picked out of the many interviewed residents.

She said it doesn't matter what type of residency they went to, in order to be qualified. However, she did say "Obviously the allopathic residencies are stronger, so that tends to be the direction we go."

Please nobody start an MD vs. DO war. I'm relaying direct facts and opinions from someone who matters. They seem to have no problem interviewing DOs, but they look for well-known, allopathic medical centers to have trained them during residency. My institution may be an outlier, however, as it is a very highly regarded training facility with much emphasis on research. It also only employs a handful of physicians, all of whom are MDs.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

You'll run into preferences, but not disqualifications for residencies/fellowships/attending positions. Your degree will not disqualify you, but you'll have an easier time at some places than others, obtaining certain positions.

If I am not mistaken there may be board certification issues. It is not all black and white.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

If I am not mistaken there may be board certification issues. It is not all black and white.

If that's true, I've never seen any examples. However, I'm not a physician, and I haven't been through all of the levels of training that we're discussing.

However, what "board certification issues" might there be? Are you referring to the license to practice in a given state? Would these "issues" keep one from gaining admission into a particular residency/fellowship program or gaining a full time position after training?

I'm confused by your cliffhanging post.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If that's true, I've never seen any examples. However, I'm not a physician, and I haven't been through all of the levels of training that we're discussing.

However, what "board certification issues" might there be? Are you referring to the license to practice in a given state? Would these "issues" keep one from gaining admission into a particular residency/fellowship program or gaining a full time position after training?

I'm confused by your cliffhanging post.

You are a premed. Why in the world would you see any examples?

Read this thread.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=479016&highlight=do+fellowship+board+certification

Board certification is different than licensure.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

You are a premed. Why in the world would you see any examples?

Read this thread.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=479016&highlight=do+fellowship+board+certification

Board certification is different than licensure.

No need to condescend. I work six feet from a fellowship director. My experience in medicine, not my "status" (or lack thereof) as pre-med would have been where I did or did not see any examples. As I admitted, however, I hadn't run into any such examples, but did not deny their existence.

Thanks for the link. It definitely shows that the issue is not as black and white as many think. I retract my previous statement and will say to the OP that your choice of residency apparently can affect your fellowship opportunities and/or job placement in the future. You'll need to research further as you approach your third year of med school.

 

[ChiDoc27]

Thanks for all the responses- very helpful. Another quick question- if a doctor is trained and board certified in an AOA/DO residency program and fellowship can she then practice in any hospital in the US, including teaching hospitals for MD students, or join any private practice?

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for all the responses- very helpful. Another quick question- if a doctor is trained and board certified in an AOA/DO residency program and fellowship can she then practice in any hospital in the US, including teaching hospitals for MD students, or join any private practice?

Generally, yes. If you're the first DO to break into a MD-centric program, you have more to prove, but this happens all the time.

There are state-by-state licensing hoops to jump through, which is true for MDs as well. DOs can practice outside the US in an increasing number of countries.

In 5 states, DOs are required to do a traditional rotating internship, or file an exception, in order to work as a DO in that state. The traditional rotating year may or may not be integrated into an AOA residency. There are some combined ACGME/AOA residencies, some of which also integrate the traditional rotating year. No matter what kind of residency you do, DO or MD, first year is the equivalent of a traditional rotating internship, whether or not they call it such. An AOA traditional rotating year may or may not incorporate OMT.

When you see DO school match lists, with about 25-40% of grads doing "traditional rotating," this means they're doing an internship that is separate from, or preliminary to, their PGY2+ residency program.

I get very distracted by all this, when my current job is to go be an OMS1. Be smarter than me, and let your upperclassmen show you the ropes instead of figuring it all out on your own, WAY too early.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

No matter what kind of residency you do, DO or MD, first year is the equivalent of a traditional rotating internship, whether or not they call it such.

This is wrong. A preliminary year in medicine or surgery is very different from a traditional rotating internship.

Also, pathology residents have a very different curriculum.