DO School and Residency Matching

[deleted1010363]

Hi All,

I was wandering if any of you have any information or statistics on specific DO schools that match the most students with residencies? I know @Goro had some information on this at one point but I could not find the thread. I believe @Goro also had a list of DO schools to NOT apply to due to the low matching rates.

Also, does anyone know if DO's have a particularly hard time matching into MD residencies? Would they have to have stellar stats to match into an MD residency?

Thanks in advance.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Sephirakra]

Hi All,

I was wandering if any of you have any information or statistics on specific DO schools that match the most students with residencies? I know @Goro had some information on this at one point but I could not find the thread. I believe @Goro also had a list of DO schools to NOT apply to due to the low matching rates.

Also, does anyone know if DO's have a particularly hard time matching into MD residencies? Would they have to have stellar stats to match into an MD residency?

Thanks in advance.

As of this cycle, there are no more MD or DO residencies. They're all just... residencies.

 

[deleted1010363]

As of this cycle, there are no more MD or DO residencies. They're all just... residencies.

Yeah, I actually Googled it shortly ago (after I posted this thread lol) and read that as of July 2020, it is all going to be GME. This means that MD's and DO's are all going to be head to head for all the residencies. Whereas before, DO students had a "safe haven" for residencies that only DO students could match with. What are your thoughts on this ACGME and AOA merger? Do you think it will put DO's in a worse position when matching (considering the stereotype of a participation institution prefers MD over DO)?

 

[Blanky]

It’s going to depend on specialty and if you are asking short vs long term among other variables

 

[hungrydoc710]

In short, yes DO students have a tougher time matching harder specialities.
However, a killer board score and you should do fine.

 

[deleted1010363]

In short, yes DO students have a tougher time matching harder specialities.
However, a killer board score and you should do fine.

Thanks for the reply! I know DO's can take both COMLEX and USMLE....which board score are you referring to? Or does it matter?

 

[hungrydoc710]

Thanks for the reply! I know DO's can take both COMLEX and USMLE....which board score are you referring to? Or does it matter?

USMLE if you want something competitive. But you must take COMLEX to you earn your degree as a DO.

Typically one will study for Step 1 and take it, cram OMM for 3 days, and then take Level 1.

 

[deleted1010363]

USMLE if you want something competitive. But you must take COMLEX to you earn your degree as a DO.

Typically one will study for Step 1 and take it, cram OMM for 3 days, and then take Level 1.

Awesome! That information helps! Appreciate it.

 

[Blanky]

Until USMLE goes Pass/ Fail...

 

[Isoval]

My opinion of this cycle’s outcome is that the strong schools will match stronger than ever before and the weak schools will match weaker than ever before.

Schools that have historically matched 80-90% of their classes into ACGME residencies are going to continue to dominate while those matching 40 or 50% into ACGME residencies may have a hard time keeping up (excluding those with a large number of home AOA programs).

 

[Ho0v-man]

In short, yes DO students have a tougher time matching harder specialities.
However, a killer board score and you should do fine.

Easier said than done, especially considering the vast majority of DO students have a history of underperforming relative to their MD counterparts. Not trying to start an argument or anything. Just pointing out for the premeds reading this that this is like someone saying “Do I need research or volunteering for med school?” And someone else replying “Nah, just get a 520+ mcat and you’ll get some love.” It’s not wrong advice. But it’s not easy either.

 

[hungrydoc710]

My opinion of this cycle’s outcome is that the strong schools will match stronger than ever before and the weak schools will match weaker than ever before.

Schools that have historically matched 80-90% of their classes into ACGME residencies are going to continue to dominate while those matching 40 or 50% into ACGME residencies may have a hard time keeping up (excluding those with a large number of home AOA programs).

Defining strong vs weak schools though is tough.
Comes down to the individual.

 

[Isoval]

Defining strong vs weak schools though is tough.
Comes down to the individual.

Only marginally agree.

I would be surprised if someone could look at me with a straight face and tell me that the general opportunity afforded by an LUCOM education was exactly equal to that afforded by one of the state schools or, say, DMU. Some schools inherently match better because of their location or faculty connections or known track records with that school’s students.

No matter where you go, of course your individual performance matters. But it’s equally as obvious that schools with better connections, better resources, and better faculty/connections will put you at a competitive advantage.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Defining strong vs weak schools though is tough.
Comes down to the individual.

Tell that to the auditioners I'm rotating with right now that openly state our school is far superior to theirs in terms of resources and opportunity. There are DO schools that have far more resources than others, and the gap between them is only going to widen with how poor quality most of the schools are.

 

[Rogue42]

Only marginally agree.

I would be surprised if someone could look at me with a straight face and tell me that the general opportunity afforded by an LUCOM education was exactly equal to that afforded by one of the state schools or, say, DMU. Some schools inherently match better because of their location or faculty connections or known track records with that school’s students.

No matter where you go, of course your individual performance matters. But it’s equally as obvious that schools with better connections, better resources, and better faculty/connections will put you at a competitive advantage.

Tell that to the auditioners I'm rotating with right now that openly state our school is far superior to theirs in terms of resources and opportunity. There are DO schools that have far more resources than others, and the gap between them is only going to widen with how poor quality most of the schools are.

For those premeds who are also reading this; understand that it’s true for anything in life though also.

Medical students at Harvard will have better opportunities and connections that a student at a State school.

Also, some students like to sit on their high horses about how great their DO school is compared to others...at the end of the day, every medical school in this country has been Licensed and accredited to produce physicians.

 

[hallowmann]

For those premeds who are also reading this; understand that it’s true for anything in life though also.

Medical students at Harvard will have better opportunities and connections that a student at a State school.

Also, some students like to sit on their high horses about how great their DO school is compared to others...at the end of the day, every medical school in this country has been Licensed and accredited to produce physicians.

In all honesty, DOs are looked at the same from ACGME residencies. Excluding local preference, we are essentially grouped in one big pile. Sure some places have research, but if you don't participate in it or your specialty doesn't particularly value it, there's little it will actually help. Often the best resources and connections are the ones you create on your own. Looking at it from the other side its crazy how arbitrary some of the process is.

 

[Medic741]

Hi All,

I was wandering if any of you have any information or statistics on specific DO schools that match the most students with residencies? I know @Goro had some information on this at one point but I could not find the thread. I believe @Goro also had a list of DO schools to NOT apply to due to the low matching rates.

Also, does anyone know if DO's have a particularly hard time matching into MD residencies? Would they have to have stellar stats to match into an MD residency?

Thanks in advance.

Not answering your question but here's something to consider in the DO<MD math/decision as it relates to residency:

Some things that DO schools that just plain and simple f*** their students over is limit the number of days off you can have to do interviews for residency. During your interviews for medical school I *highly* recommend asking what their policies are for auditioning, try to get real answers from them and write them down and compare between your acceptances because this one matters for your QOL. The problem is...

Residencies send out more invites than they have spots for interviews and they fill on a first come first serve basis, and often fill all spots within minutes of sending the invites. This means that when you get ani II you take it and you do *not* have the flexibility to only interview on the weeks that your school gives you 'off' for interviews.

Basically a lot of DO schools make their residency interview attendance policies completely devoid from reality in a way that harms students and forces them to lie to their programs so that they can attend interview days.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Not answering your question but here's something to consider in the DOdecision as it relates to residency:

Some things that DO schools that just plain and simple f*** their students over is limit the number of days off you can have to do interviews for residency. During your interviews for medical school I *highly* recommend asking what their policies are for auditioning, try to get real answers from them and write them down and compare between your acceptances because this one matters for your QOL. The problem is...

Residencies send out more invites than they have spots for interviews and they fill on a first come first serve basis, and often fill all spots within minutes of sending the invites. This means that when you get ani II you take it and you do *not* have the flexibility to only interview on the weeks that your school gives you 'off' for interviews.

Basically a lot of DO schools make their residency interview attendance policies completely devoid from reality in a way that harms students and forces them to lie to their programs so that they can attend interview days.

I usually hear that this is based on the type of rotation you're in and the preceptor that you have during interview season. So people try to have lax rotations with lax preceptors that will let them have days off for interviews during those months. Also, it's good to check what the 4th year rotations are like for each school, the more electives the school have on their 4th year rotations, the better it is to manipulate your schedule the way you want.

 

[Medic741]

I usually hear that this is based on the type of rotation you're in and the preceptor that you have during interview season. So people try to have lax rotations with lax preceptors that will let them have days off for interviews during those months. Also, it's good to check what the 4th year rotations are like for each school, the more electives the school have on their 4th year rotations, the better it is to manipulate your schedule the way you want.

yes but the school policy really matters here. Ie you have a 'lax' rotation, attending says "yes you can take xyz day off and I won't tell the school" but then marks on the eval that you were not there when you said in your submitted rotation docs that state you were present on those days.

Get caught in a lie out of necessity, academic progress committee, tack on a red flag or fail a rotation, get kicked out or a bad mark on your deans letter out of it.

Bottom line: avoid being put in a position where your career rests on someone you’ve known for maybe 2 weeks lying on your behalf.

This is one of those extra hoops going to a do school creates in your matching process.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

yes but the school policy really matters here. Ie you have a 'lax' rotation, attending says "yes you can take xyz day off and I won't tell the school" but then marks on the eval that you were not there when you said in your submitted rotation docs that state you were present on those days.

Get caught in a lie out of necessity, academic progress committee, tack on a red flag or fail a rotation, get kicked out or a bad mark on your deans letter out of it.

Bottom line: avoid being put in a position where your career rests on someone you’ve known for maybe 2 weeks lying on your behalf.

This is one of those extra hoops going to a do school creates in your matching process.

So I checked my school's 4th year curriculum and there's a scheduled vacation time for 4th year, and I think someone told me sometime last year that it was for interview season or something. I'm hoping that's the case then.

 

[hallowmann]

yes but the school policy really matters here. Ie you have a 'lax' rotation, attending says "yes you can take xyz day off and I won't tell the school" but then marks on the eval that you were not there when you said in your submitted rotation docs that state you were present on those days.

Get caught in a lie out of necessity, academic progress committee, tack on a red flag or fail a rotation, get kicked out or a bad mark on your deans letter out of it.

Bottom line: avoid being put in a position where your career rests on someone you’ve known for maybe 2 weeks lying on your behalf.

This is one of those extra hoops going to a do school creates in your matching process.

A few things.

1. This is a real concern. A lot of schools would give something like 10 days off for interviews/travel time. Its ridiculous, because with travel you can only fit in 5-10 interviews max. That may have worked in 2010 and earlier, but its not like that anymore. People are going on 15+ interviews. Some schools may let you use vacation time for that, which is great, but it varies widely and in all honestly isn't always known by the MS2s giving you the tour. On top of that, policies might change while you're attending the school.

You get around this by working something out with your rotation attending, like DrStephenStrange said. You can usually find a way to make it work by using a few different tactics, but it honestly adds to an already stressful situation.

2. This is not exclusive to DO schools. I've met some MD school students that have schools with similar archaic policies, but it does seem much more common at DO schools.

3. You're not going to get a bad mark on your MSPE for missing days to go for interview, for the simple fact that your MSPE will already be submitted before you interview.

So I checked my school's 4th year curriculum and there's a scheduled vacation time for 4th year, and I think someone told me sometime last year that it was for interview season or something. I'm hoping that's the case then.

It varies heavily by school and might even change by the time you get there. Don't worry about it until its time to plan out 4th year and electives/auditions, just keep it in mind so you can plan accordingly.