DO School quality?

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

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I don't care about BS like rankings, but is there a list of "good" DO schools or something? I tried googling but everything was based off USNW (lol). We hear about the sketchiness of some of the DO schools but I have no idea how to tell the difference.

 

[wysdoc]

I don't care about BS like rankings, but is there a list of "good" DO schools or something? I tried googling but everything was based off USNW (lol). We hear about the sketchiness of some of the DO schools but I have no idea how to tell the difference.

I like to use the list from COCA (accrediting agency) as a more objective source.
Start your list with schools that are listed as "Accreditation With Exceptional Outcome"

Be aware that those schools might have a higher GPA/MCAT profile for matriculants.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Thank you! Would the order of quality be something like:

Exceptional Outcome > Accreditation > Heightened Monitoring = Pre-Accreditation?

 

[wysdoc]

Thank you! Would the order of quality be something like:

Exceptional Outcome > Accreditation > Heightened Monitoring = Pre-Accreditation?

Pre-Accreditation is usually a new school that hasn't yet graduated a class

Heightened monitoring means there were some areas found that needed improvement on the last accreditation visit.

The newer schools may not have federal loans available so that's another thing to read up on when you choose your schools.

 

[Goro]

I cannot reccomend any school that has yet to graduate a class, nor those that are for profit

 

[PapaGuava]

Yeah, the federal loans issue and no graduated class is a tricky situation with any new DO school. So be aware of that like the others said above. However, at the end of the day, it depends on your application and what interviews you receive..

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Yeah, the federal loans issue and no graduated class is a tricky situation with any new DO school. So be aware of the like the others said above. However, at the end of the day, it depends on your application and what interviews you receive..

Ty for your response!

I have a ~3.65 sGPA, ~3.5cGPA including a DIY PB and MCAT's coming out this month but expect ~513+, along with hundreds of hours of clinical and non-clinical volunteering and about 7 years of experience as a software engineer and engineering instructor. At this point, I'm looking at the "stronger" DO schools and weaker/mid-tier MDs unless something really bad happens with my MCAT. 🙂

 

[PapaGuava]

Ty for your response!

I have a ~3.65 sGPA, ~3.5cGPA including a DIY PB and MCAT's coming out this month but expect ~513+, along with hundreds of hours of clinical and non-clinical volunteering and about 7 years of experience as a software engineer and engineering instructor. At this point, I'm looking at the "stronger" DO schools and weaker/mid-tier MDs unless something really bad happens with my MCAT. 🙂

I hope your MCAT is where you wanted it! Good luck!!

 

[purkinjekitty]

I cannot reccomend any school that has yet to graduate a class, nor those that are for profit

Would you say the same about a school like SHSU? They seem to be doing great things, especially for the recent decrease in tuition after gaining state funding!

 

[Goro]

Would you say the same about a school like SHSU? They seem to be doing great things, especially for the recent decrease in tuition after gaining state funding!

I advise the avoidance of new schools because it takes time for a faculty to gel in the delivery of a new curriculum, and they lack resources that students need.

The wise @wysdoc, being a Texan, might have better info on this school

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I like to recommend attending an established DO school. They have graduated many classes and have regional reputations. With the advent of new MD and DO schools, clinical rotations are getting trickier to arrange. Many clinical faculty are in private practice and compensated on productivity. Teaching takes time and decreases productivity so many faculty drop out of taking students. Always go with an established school unless you have no other choices.

 

[OffTheLand]

Would you say the same about a school like SHSU? They seem to be doing great things, especially for the recent decrease in tuition after gaining state funding!

I personally chose SHSU over established schools since the tuition was half the price and I’d stay in TX. I can let you know in a few months if I regret it lol.

 

[deleted1139416]

I like to recommend attending an established DO school. They have graduated many classes and have regional reputations. With the advent of new MD and DO schools, clinical rotations are getting trickier to arrange. Many clinical faculty are in private practice and compensated on productivity. Teaching takes time and decreases productivity so many faculty drop out of taking students. Always go with an established school unless you have no other choices.

My school, unfortunately, has also had several 3rd year clerkships that were quite subpar and gave me a very lackluster education. I am making up for this by "redoing" important rotations like internal medicine, peds, and surgery thorough VSLO sites in my 4th year towards 4th year elective requirements. That way, I will actually learn something before graduating lol. Fortunately, VSLO rotations are an open grab during second semester since everyone else is obsessed with ditching and taking a chill rotation during that time.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I like to use the list from COCA (accrediting agency) as a more objective source.
Start your list with schools that are listed as "Accreditation With Exceptional Outcome"

Be aware that those schools might have a higher GPA/MCAT profile for matriculants.

This isn’t bad but certainly some disagreement to be had.

MSU is just “accreditation” and that’s arguably one of the best.

LMU is notoriously terrible but gets “exceptional outcome?” They were on heightened monitoring forever.

Don’t think there’s anything exceptional about the PCOM branches (PCOM itself is obviously great.)

I don't care about BS like rankings, but is there a list of "good" DO schools or something? I tried googling but everything was based off USNW (lol). We hear about the sketchiness of some of the DO schools but I have no idea how to tell the difference.

In general, the state funded schools like OSU, OUH, MSU, Rowan are basically MD schools that are awarding a DO degree.

After that, the “old 5” are generally considered solid (AT Still, DMU, PCOM, KCU, CCOM.)

The newest schools and ones that Goro doesn’t recommend like BCOM and LMU are the bottom. He doesn’t recommend for-profit schools, but RVU has pretty solid results and I’d have a hard time recommending against it, personally.

All of the other ones are somewhere in the middle.

To be clear, no one involved in resident selection cares. A DO is a DO is a DO. So to me location and tuition should be pretty important. I think the state funded ones help you build a competitive app with things like research and might be worth sacrificing these things.

However, if you’re from Florida I’m not sure that knowing what I know now I would move to Kansas City over Bradenton based on it maybe being arbitrarily “better” as there’s not really tangible career benefits. Although I think there’s been problems with Nova for a long time IIRC so maybe steer clear of that one unless something’s changed.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

However, if you’re from Florida I’m not sure that knowing what I know now I would move to Kansas City over Bradenton based on it maybe being arbitrarily “better” as there’s not really tangible career benefits. Although I think there’s been problems with Nova for a long time IIRC so maybe steer clear of that one unless something’s changed.

I am actively looking to leave FL for political/safety/healthcare reasons. My fiance and I are both trans and the state I've lived the vast majority of my life in doesn't want me anymore, so we're taking the hint and getting the hell out of dodge to somewhere above the Mason-Dixon Line. So far I'm only finding about 10 DO schools that fit the bill so hopefully it all works out.

I do very much appreciate the rest of your advice!

 

[SmoggyAidi]

LMU is notoriously terrible but gets “exceptional outcome?” They were on heightened monitoring forever.

Isn't that because their status doesn't change until the COCA visit, which was last year? Whatever it was that earned them that in the past, it's apparently been fixed.

As a current student, I saw some problems, but definitely nothing to warrant the "LMU is the worst school" reputation that seems to be slung around here.

 

[Goro]

Isn't that because their status doesn't change until the COCA visit, which was last year? Whatever it was that earned them that in the past, it's apparently been fixed.

As a current student, I saw some problems, but definitely nothing to warrant the "LMU is the worst school" reputation that seems to be slung around here.

Do you still have the OMM/OMT faculty member who teaches cupping by using a plunger??

 

[SmoggyAidi]

Do you still have the OMM/OMT faculty member who teaches cupping by using a plunger??

No. If you know that person's name, I can probably confirm via PM whether they're still part of the OMM faculty that taught us. They haven't really taught us anything that isn't covered in Savarese now.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I like to use the list from COCA (accrediting agency) as a more objective source.
Start your list with schools that are listed as "Accreditation With Exceptional Outcome"

Be aware that those schools might have a higher GPA/MCAT profile for matriculants.

That is a lot of ****ing DO schools. We have gone full ******. When I applied in 2008, I think there were 19 schools in total, maybe 20.

 

[Goro]

That is a lot of ****ing DO schools. We have gone full ******. When I applied in 2008, I think there were 19 schools in total, maybe 20.

No end in sight, sadly

 

[wysdoc]

This isn’t bad but certainly some disagreement to be had.

MSU is just “accreditation” and that’s arguably one of the best.

LMU is notoriously terrible but gets “exceptional outcome?” They were on heightened monitoring forever.

Don’t think there’s anything exceptional about the PCOM branches (PCOM itself is obviously great.)


In general, the state funded schools like OSU, OUH, MSU, Rowan are basically MD schools that are awarding a DO degree.

After that, the “old 5” are generally considered solid (AT Still, DMU, PCOM, KCU, CCOM.)

The newest schools and ones that Goro doesn’t recommend like BCOM and LMU are the bottom. He doesn’t recommend for-profit schools, but RVU has pretty solid results and I’d have a hard time recommending against it, personally.

All of the other ones are somewhere in the middle.

To be clear, no one involved in resident selection cares. A DO is a DO is a DO. So to me location and tuition should be pretty important. I think the state funded ones help you build a competitive app with things like research and might be worth sacrificing these things.

However, if you’re from Florida I’m not sure that knowing what I know now I would move to Kansas City over Bradenton based on it maybe being arbitrarily “better” as there’s not really tangible career benefits. Although I think there’s been problems with Nova for a long time IIRC so maybe steer clear of that one unless something’s changed.

I agree these are not the only schools to consider, just a starting point. Location will be a big deciding factor for a lot of people as well.

 

[Cornfed101]

This isn’t bad but certainly some disagreement to be had.

MSU is just “accreditation” and that’s arguably one of the best.

LMU is notoriously terrible but gets “exceptional outcome?” They were on heightened monitoring forever.

Don’t think there’s anything exceptional about the PCOM branches (PCOM itself is obviously great.)


In general, the state funded schools like OSU, OUH, MSU, Rowan are basically MD schools that are awarding a DO degree.

After that, the “old 5” are generally considered solid (AT Still, DMU, PCOM, KCU, CCOM.)

The newest schools and ones that Goro doesn’t recommend like BCOM and LMU are the bottom. He doesn’t recommend for-profit schools, but RVU has pretty solid results and I’d have a hard time recommending against it, personally.

All of the other ones are somewhere in the middle.

To be clear, no one involved in resident selection cares. A DO is a DO is a DO. So to me location and tuition should be pretty important. I think the state funded ones help you build a competitive app with things like research and might be worth sacrificing these things.

However, if you’re from Florida I’m not sure that knowing what I know now I would move to Kansas City over Bradenton based on it maybe being arbitrarily “better” as there’s not really tangible career benefits. Although I think there’s been problems with Nova for a long time IIRC so maybe steer clear of that one unless something’s changed.

The Colorado campus of RVU is good. The Utah campus is fine but doesn’t match as well and has more difficulty finding rotations. Do not go to the new Montana campus. There was some controversy with the dean saying some stupid stuff and they will certainly have a ton of difficulty with rotations

 

[drthedude]

The Colorado campus of RVU is good. The Utah campus is fine but doesn’t match as well and has more difficulty finding rotations. Do not go to the new Montana campus. There was some controversy with the dean saying some stupid stuff and they will certainly have a ton of difficulty with rotations

out of curiosity, what stupid stuff? have a friend going there

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

out of curiosity, what stupid stuff? have a friend going there

Dr. Park is great, and did not say anything bad. RVU's former president, and board members of medforth said those comments and were fired/retired (idk) but they're not with the school anymore.

Comments were made that Billings clinic had a "token female" ceo or president or something like that. Someone also made a comment about jews not fitting in in Montana in reference to the new Tour campus and the inevitable fight for rotations sites. Im pretty sure there was an investigation and people got fired. But Billings Clinic called off negotiations with RVU at the time, that was over a year ago, I'm unsure if everything has been smoothed over.

 

[PikminOC]

I cannot reccomend any school that has yet to graduate a class, nor those that are for profit

How many MD schools like this in the US?

 

[Goro]

How many MD schools like this in the US?

One for profit MD school, the execrable CNU

Only a few brand new MD, but they don't have the same problems or worries that new DO schools induce.

 

[PikminOC]

One for profit MD school, the execrable CNU

Only a few brand new MD, but they don't have the same problems or worries that new DO schools induce.

Why not?

 

[Goro]

Why not?

New MD schools have (nearly always) have teaching hospitals and make larger investments in their clinical education, research, and student support structures.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Isn't that because their status doesn't change until the COCA visit, which was last year? Whatever it was that earned them that in the past, it's apparently been fixed.

As a current student, I saw some problems, but definitely nothing to warrant the "LMU is the worst school" reputation that seems to be slung around here.

The issue with LMU is that even by DO school standards they had very weak 3rd year rotations. I don’t keep up with these things well anymore so not sure if it’s changed. I have a hard time believing they could fix that while opening a branch campus though.

The Colorado campus of RVU is good. The Utah campus is fine but doesn’t match as well and has more difficulty finding rotations. Do not go to the new Montana campus. There was some controversy with the dean saying some stupid stuff and they will certainly have a ton of difficulty with rotations

Yeah I was only referring to Colorado. The others came out after I stopped keeping up with DO school expansion. Surprised that Utah would have a hard time though. Lots of good applicants from BYU fill Midwest DO schools since utahs one medical school is competitive.

I am actively looking to leave FL for political/safety/healthcare reasons. My fiance and I are both trans and the state I've lived the vast majority of my life in doesn't want me anymore, so we're taking the hint and getting the hell out of dodge to somewhere above the Mason-Dixon Line. So far I'm only finding about 10 DO schools that fit the bill so hopefully it all works out.

I do very much appreciate the rest of your advice!

good for you! Recovering southerner here myself. Even though Midwest gets a bad reputation for the ways they swing politically, I wouldn’t write off locations like DMU or CCOM because bigger cities tend to have a more tolerant populous.

One thing to be wary of is where you get sent for rotations after pre-clinical. My school was in a rural area, but it was a college town and I think that’d be pretty safe. But a good chunk of our third year rotation sites were very rural and I’d be more worried in that case.

 

[cytomegalovirus123]

I would add that Michigan states DO school matches very well and has good funding. As well as affiliations with several teaching hospitals throughout the state. They also have home programs for plenty of specialties even the pretty competitive ones.