DO School "Reputations"

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It's all about how hard you are willing to work. AND its about your school supporting you along the way.

What did those students have to do to get into those "pretty sweet" residency programs? Will those spots still be available in 4 years? After the massive expansion in MD graduates that is currently ramping up? After Touro-CA lost many of their rotation sites in the Bay Area in the last 18 months?

Touro-CA will consistently put up road blocks to student success. They will make your life hell.

bth

I have no axe to grind with Touro-CA either but I will say bth is right about Touro-CA losing some of their sites. I was there shadowing this year with the 3rd-4th years and Touro-CA faculty members at one of the sites in San Francisco when it was announced that the hospital would no longer be taking Touro-CA students. Of course the students were not happy about this. on a positive note, I thought the instructors were awesome. Had a great experience shadowing with them. I heard the school is trying to add some additional sites around the East Bay for the future..
 
Sorry but if you turn down Hopkins because there is no skiing than you are an absolute *****. Where did this genius of a student land up?
 
I have no axe to grind with Touro-CA either but I will say bth is right about Touro-CA losing some of their sites. I was there shadowing this year with the 3rd-4th years and Touro-CA faculty members at one of the sites in San Francisco when it was announced that the hospital would no longer be taking Touro-CA students. Of course the students were not happy about this. on a positive note, I thought the instructors were awesome. Had a great experience shadowing with them. I heard the school is trying to add some additional sites around the East Bay for the future..

Too bad. St Luke's was the only medical hospital site Touro had in the Bay Area that took reliable numbers of 3rd year students. 1 minus 1 equals zero.

bth
 
Sorry but if you turn down Hopkins because there is no skiing than you are an absolute *****. Where did this genius of a student land up?


You're the ***** for thinking that Hopkin's should be everyone's number one pick.
 
Sorry but if you turn down Hopkins because there is no skiing than you are an absolute *****. Where did this genius of a student land up?

Dude . . . Baltimore = best skiing on the East Coast.

bth

10 points to anyone who gets this joke. If you don't, watch "The Wire."
 
Johns Hopkins Medical School is in a terrible place in Baltimore. Don't say people should put that as number one. If you like research, you should go there. If you do not, then you shouldn't.
 
People were also saying that the program at Hopkins wasn't mecca. Remember that a huge name doesn't always mean the best program out there.
 
Sorry but if you turn down Hopkins because there is no skiing than you are an absolute *****. Where did this genius of a student land up?

The ***** genius who was good enough to land gas at Hopkins in the first place? Yeah, this guy clearly doesn't have his **** together. He's probably flipping burgers now.
 
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Agreed. It sounds like we followed the same progression in our thinking process. All that "clinical" stuff in the first two years looks like it should be helpful later on, but it doesn't help much for rotations at all. Maybe it helps a little at the onset so that everything isn't so unfamiliar, but that's about it. You truly learn what need in the wards by doing it for real. There's a particular way each service wants you to do an H&P and to write a note anyway. What you learn in school will only go so far. You learn real fast when you are dealing with truly sick people, not actors or other medical students. Now add a real time crunch. Lastly, I think that all that clinical stuff makes more sense post-boards, when you finally begin to understand the pathophysiology and the pieces of the puzzle start coming together. It helps to know why you are doing what you are doing.

I also agree that spending too much time on "clinical" stuff can be harmful. I mean, it's good to have some because it does add context to what you are learning in the classroom and provides that certain satisfaction that 1st and 2nd year medical students long for, but if the curriculum favors it over the basic sciences, then they are wasting your precious time. I wish my school spent more time and depth on the hardcore basics, especially with respect to the big important ones: physiology, pharmacology, and pathology (pathophysiology in particular). I also found biochemistry and genetics to be weak. I found that when the time came for me to study for my boards, I had to work a bit harder because I felt that I lacked the necessary knowledge. Fortunately, my hard work paid off. I learned what I needed to know mostly by myself, not from classes. Thanks, Rapid Review.

I agree for the most part. I think you need a little bit of the stuff just to get used to things like actually using your hands and general manners, but other than that, it is more for show and variety. We do have a required preceptorship for 2 or 3 weeks after first year where we are supposed to use all that stuff, but I have a hard time believing I truly needed all this practice. Do we really need near a month dedicated to sexual history and stuff? Is it really that useful to memorize lists of questions that WILL be forgotten. The whole giving us the full exam and then slowly making it into a focused exam is all nice sounding, but I still don't know what the hell I should be listening or feeling for. It is just going through the motions.
 
You're the ***** for thinking that Hopkin's should be everyone's number one pick.

Alright fair enough.....we disagree. I know it must be devastating to not be able to ski when you can train at an institution like Hopkins. With that being said, if he wasn't going to be happy there then thats cool. Still find it hard to believe that someone would turn down Hopkins for such a reason.
 
The ***** genius who was good enough to land gas at Hopkins in the first place? Yeah, this guy clearly doesn't have his **** together. He's probably flipping burgers now.

:laugh:

I stand my ground.
 
Does anyone know if s/he actually did get accepted to the Hopkins program, or did s/he just say that? Or is it just a rumor that is floating around? Last time I checked, Hopkins Anesthesiology was ranked #6 in the country. Safe to say that is a very good program, one of the best in the country. Its like people on this forum saying they have heard of students (may or may not live in illinois) that turned down UIC for CCOM. You would have to be an idiot to turn down UIC for CCOM if you lived in Illinois, and I am hesitant to believe people say they know or have heard of others who have done this.
 
Does anyone know if s/he actually did get accepted to the Hopkins program, or did s/he just say that? Or is it just a rumor that is floating around? Last time I checked, Hopkins Anesthesiology was ranked #6 in the country. Safe to say that is a very good program, one of the best in the country. Its like people on this forum saying they have heard of students (may or may not live in illinois) that turned down UIC for CCOM. You would have to be an idiot to turn down UIC for CCOM if you lived in Illinois, and I am hesitant to believe people say they know or have heard of others who have done this.

It seems like a few people on the board have known the applicant personally, so I guess that is as close as we can get to first hand knowledge until someone comes right out and says ... 'it's me!'

Also, about the UIC comment ... do you mean just based on instate tuition???
 
Some kids don't realize there's more to life than US News rankings....

"Somebody would have never turned down a #6 program where they couldn't pursue the *one* thing in life that allowed them to decompress from work and feel like they can actually do something they *enjoy* for the first time in like a decade! Even if they got accepted at the #10 program that was on the side of a killer slope, there's no way they'd be so 'dumb.' It's unbelievable and inconceivable. Didn't happen."

I passed up a top ranked undergrad because I wanted to take a badass summer vacation with my wife and be able to roommate with my best friend who didn't get accepted to that same undergrad. We all have choices to make, so I don't understand why so many have such a hard time putting themselves in someone else's shoes for like 5 seconds and ignoring their own personal priorities, limited life experience (20 year olds vs. 30 year old is a biiiiiggg difference), and narrow perception of the world that is a product of their own life history.

Oh well...probably falling on deaf ears anyway. Continue questioning a scenario that isn't at all far fetched. You may be able to muster up a little more empathy in a few years.
 
It seems like a few people on the board have known the applicant personally, so I guess that is as close as we can get to first hand knowledge until someone comes right out and says ... 'it's me!'

Also, about the UIC comment ... do you mean just based on instate tuition???

Yes, I believe I remember reading some post about that some time ago. I dont remember which thread and what post. Some things I need to see in order to believe.
 
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There was an article someone posted around here of a student that picked CCOM over UIC and was instate. It was a newspaper article so it was definitely true. I guess he met his future wife there but the two got piled up with debt the article said, sucks 🙁
 
Yes, I believe I remember reading some post about that some time ago. I dont remember which thread and what post. Some things I need to see in order to believe.

You may be referring to a thread I commented on a while ago comparing some of the Chicago schools and it evolved into CCOM compared to UIC. I said the two are somewhat comparable but the tuition you get as a IL resident at UIC is NOT comparable and in the end I said that was absolutely the way to go if you get the IS tuition.
 
You may be referring to a thread I commented on a while ago comparing some of the Chicago schools and it evolved into CCOM compared to UIC. I said the two are somewhat comparable but the tuition you get as a IL resident at UIC is NOT comparable and in the end I said that was absolutely the way to go if you get the IS tuition.

Instate tuition rocks.
 
Also, UIC has 4 campuses (only 1 in Chicago); thus, there is a chance that you get accepted to UIC, but not the Chicago campus. Furthermore, if your situation (personal, family, ect) made it that you had to be in Chicago, well that would be one reason to choose CCOM over UIC.

In the end, go where YOU will be happiest or where YOUR SITUATION takes you, not what SDN has to say about it. There are many students out there who have significant others, kids, ect that may influence their decisions heavily.
 
Also, UIC has 4 campuses (only 1 in Chicago); thus, there is a chance that you get accepted to UIC, but not the Chicago campus. Furthermore, if your situation (personal, family, ect) made it that you had to be in Chicago, well that would be one reason to choose CCOM over UIC.

In the end, go where YOU will be happiest or where YOUR SITUATION takes you, not what SDN has to say about it. There are many students out there who have significant others, kids, ect that may influence their decisions heavily.

👍
 
Does anyone know if s/he actually did get accepted to the Hopkins program, or did s/he just say that? Or is it just a rumor that is floating around? Last time I checked, Hopkins Anesthesiology was ranked #6 in the country. Safe to say that is a very good program, one of the best in the country. Its like people on this forum saying they have heard of students (may or may not live in illinois) that turned down UIC for CCOM. You would have to be an idiot to turn down UIC for CCOM if you lived in Illinois, and I am hesitant to believe people say they know or have heard of others who have done this.

Let me guess, you're 25 or younger. When you get to your 30s, you'll realize that not everything in life is based on prestige, that quality of life matters. I'd have ZERO trouble turning down Hopkins for a residency in New England. Zero. Life is short. Instead of going to a residency you hate just to tell people you did, you should go to a residency that makes you happy (if you're lucky enough to have a choice). Same goes for a med school, though in that case, I'd say tuition matters as well.
 
Let me guess, you're 25 or younger. When you get to your 30s, you'll realize that not everything in life is based on prestige, that quality of life matters. I'd have ZERO trouble turning down Hopkins for a residency in New England. Zero. Life is short. Instead of going to a residency you hate just to tell people you did, you should go to a residency that makes you happy (if you're lucky enough to have a choice). Same goes for a med school, though in that case, I'd say tuition matters as well.


Yes I am under 25, recently turned 22 to be exact. Perhaps you are right, as a young pre-medical student I find that I am ambitous, confident, and determined.......as most of my other premed peers. I strive to achieve the best that I can, and I would want the best residency at the most prestigous location. Thats the mindset I have right now. I guess things will change as I get older, as all things always do.
 
Let me guess, you're 25 or younger. When you get to your 30s, you'll realize that not everything in life is based on prestige, that quality of life matters. I'd have ZERO trouble turning down Hopkins for a residency in New England. Zero. Life is short. Instead of going to a residency you hate just to tell people you did, you should go to a residency that makes you happy (if you're lucky enough to have a choice). Same goes for a med school, though in that case, I'd say tuition matters as well.

Absolutely. I didn't fully understand this until now. I mean I've always considered fit to be more important than something like prestige, but as I've been rotating through different services, I can now begin to appreciate how painful it can be to spend 3-5 years in a program you just don't jive with (or worse, just plain malignant). Every day can be sheer racking torture in a place like that and you end up counting the days. It can also be a lot harder to learn and thrive. I had one experience like that. I couldn't wait to finish and move on.

On the other hand, I think if you are fortunate enough to be in a program that fits you well (and one that also likes you, too), it can be a truly awesome experience. No matter the prestige of the program, everything just flows much better and somehow you learn more, get more out of the program. You end up much happier and fulfilled. I rotated in program like that and it was down right magical. I could see myself on the team and everyone else could, too. That's the way you want it. Knowing what I know now, if I am lucky enough to have a choice, I'm going to go for the program that fits me the best. It doesn't have to be either/or, though. I'm sure there are plenty of programs that are excellent in many ways, viewed well by others, and fits you well. I'm just saying that personal fit is really important.
 
We all have choices to make, so I don't understand why so many have such a hard time putting themselves in someone else's shoes for like 5 seconds and ignoring their own personal priorities, limited life experience (20 year olds vs. 30 year old is a biiiiiggg difference), and narrow perception of the world that is a product of their own life history.

Amen.

Words can hardly convey the depth with which I endorse this experience.

I do not understand the myopic rigidity of perspective and seemingly total lack of ability to engage in a nuanced decision making process.

Why is it so hard to imagine that, in making an important life-choice, a person might consider multiple factors that are undoubtedly present in a any person's life and weigh their respective importance according to that individual's priorities?

This attitude that its "my way or you must be insane" is so pervasive here on SDN. Its ridiculous.

bth
 
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Amen.

Words can hardly convey the depth with which I endorse this experience.

I do not understand the myopic rigidity of perspective and seemingly total lack of ability to engage in a nuanced decision making process.

Why is it so hard to imagine that, in making an important life-choice, a person might consider multiple factors that are undoubtedly present in a any person's life and weigh their respective importance according to that individual's priorities?

This attitude that its "my way or you must be insane" is so pervasive here on SDN. Its ridiculous.

bth

A lot of people on this site, and in a field such as medicine in general, have been indoctrinated for years to always strive for prestige. Go to the high school with the highest AP scores, go to the oldest Undergrad with the biggest name, go to the old, big name Medical school, etcetera. This mindset is hard to break and is usually ingrained via some sort of outside influence/pressure. Hence, anything that defies this mentality automatically sets off alarm bells. Hopefully age and experience will help break these annoying cycles.
 
And I figure by the time we're all practicing medicine, all of our colleagues won't give a rip about DO or MD, honestly. It's all the same now. 🙂
 
And I figure by the time we're all practicing medicine, all of our colleagues won't give a rip about DO or MD, honestly. It's all the same now. 🙂

It's impossible to predict the future, but with DOs representing something close to 20% of practicing docs by the time we graduate ... it should be blending well.
 
Yes I am under 25, recently turned 22 to be exact. Perhaps you are right, as a young pre-medical student I find that I am ambitous, confident, and determined.......as most of my other premed peers. I strive to achieve the best that I can, and I would want the best residency at the most prestigous location. Thats the mindset I have right now. I guess things will change as I get older, as all things always do.

I don't really think this has to do with age, maybe a little bit of it does. I'm 20, and I already know that I'll be picking a residency based on location more than anything else. I want to be able to start a family and not have to make them move all over for my career. Plus, I think most people who want a really prestigious undergrad, medical school, residency, etc. are mostly just doing it for "bragging rights" or something stupid like that. I have no interest in that - it is not important! Either way you will learn a lot and become the type of doctor you want to be. I don't see why some people are so dead-set on something so frivolous. Maybe that will change when they have a significant other and are thinking of a family.
 
A lot of this argument has to do with what people find important in life and the maturity to understand that what one person finds important may be totally different from what another finds important. And the maturity to support their decision rather than snort derisively and malign someone's character because their decision was not the one you would have made.

This argument has little to do with age.
 
These days, simply getting into a US medical school is hard, MD or DO, admissions is getting very competitive to both. "Prestige" of a school really does not matter much in the long run. Anyhow I have seen quite a few DOs at top academic medical institutions these days, so success can be achieved as a DO. I recall a very long time ago, things were different.
 
And I figure by the time we're all practicing medicine, all of our colleagues won't give a rip about DO or MD, honestly. It's all the same now. 🙂

Unfortunately, this is the false perception that so many pre-meds have. They mistakenly believe the relevant issue is some sort of "lesser status" or prestige of being a DO vis-a-vis an MD.

The over-emphasis of this false problem serves to distract from the actual problem, which is the very real deficits in the quality of clinical education at some osteopathic medical schools, i.e. clinical rotations in years 3 and 4.

Touro-CA released their accreditation review report, which they are required to file to maintain their status as a University. Some highlights:

"The training of preceptors in assessment and evaluation of students is a widely recognized challenge for all training programs and especially those that rely largely on volunteer faculty dispersed over many, often remote training sites." (The osteopathic college relies on "volunteer" faculty. That's a nice way of saying they are unpaid.)

"One indisputable characteristic of clinical training is that sites are constantly in flux; as new sites are opened, others disappear because a preceptor retires, a hospital or clinic negotiates a better financial arrangement with another educational institution, or a site or individual preceptor ceases to want to train students altogether." (This is a nice of way of saying that they lost most of their sites in the past 18 months, because other schools were willing to pay hospitals to train students, while Touro-CA was not.)

"It has historically been difficult for the Touro-CA campus to successfully attract preceptors to campus for training, in part because of distances to be traveled and restrictions around holding programs during the Sabbath."

"Considerable turnover in the clinical education department of this college has limited the amount of faculty development that could be provided."

bth
 
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This argument has little to do with age.

I disagree with you. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but most people aren't thinking about families and children and spouses at age 20. They're thinking about what's best for them in terms of education. By age 30, many have met that special someone, some are married, some have kids, but most realize that even if they don't have a family yet, they may and location becomes a bigger priority. At 20, life is a big adventure. Who cares what state they end up in? It's just for a few years and if they get top-rate training, all the better. By 30, it becomes "is Baltimore a good move for the kids? Will my wife be happy there? Will she be able to find work?" or even if he's single, it's still "do I really want to live in Baltimore for four years? Life's too short to live some place I really don't want to live."
 
Does every thread have to turn into bth vs. Touro? Sheesh, we get it. You hated your rotations, Touro sucks, and you're going to be unhappy about it forever.
 
Does every thread have to turn into bth vs. Touro? Sheesh, we get it. You hated your rotations, Touro sucks, and you're going to be unhappy about it forever.

Not unhappy at all.

Just thought that pre-meds would like to know.

The thread is titled "DO school reputations" after all.

bth
 
MedStudent, that is all true, but you're talking about people themselves going through change that make them considerate. I'm talking about maturity within oneself to be considerate no matter what the age. The ability to "put yourself in someone else's shoes" as it were, not to have consideration because you are also walking down those roads.
 
I would like to think that people mature as they age, and most do. But, some people never do. You see it every time two grown men start a fight at a sporting event or end up in the ED for trying something really stupid. People who hate kids, with no job and no home, are still getting pregnant every day. These peoople make really poor choices and maturity affects the choices that you make, often more so than age does.
 
I would like to think that people mature as they age, and most do. But, some people never do. You see it every time two grown men start a fight at a sporting event or end up in the ED for trying something really stupid. People who hate kids, with no job and no home, are still getting pregnant every day. These peoople make really poor choices and maturity affects the choices that you make, often more so than age does.

People who can get pregnant every day! That's like so much pregnancy!
 
MedStudent, that is all true, but you're talking about people themselves going through change that make them considerate. I'm talking about maturity within oneself to be considerate no matter what the age. The ability to "put yourself in someone else's shoes" as it were, not to have consideration because you are also walking down those roads.

I agree with that. I'm just saying that someone who's 20 years old might have a harder time seeing the logic in turning down prestige for quality of life, even if they don't judge.
 
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