DO schools and "easy" dont go together...

[CuttinEmUp]

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I have been reading some questions about why DO schools are easy to get in--and how you can have lower stats and get in etc.. and I sense a general culture regarding DO schools as being "easy", terms like "Fallback" etc are often used as well.

Well...a couple of points I think are worth mentioning>>>

1. Just because someones numerical scores aren't as high as someone elses, does not lower their stats! Stay with me here and read on to hear my reasoning.....DO schools understand its not necessary to get a 40 on the MCAT to survive the rigors of medical school. Those inflated numbers are a result of ever growing applicant pools and a necessary function of supply. However, I challenge some of those 40 MCAT scorers to be able to list on their applications some of the very UNIQUE experiences and other qualities that make a DO candidate successful. Those are stats that you just can't measure using standardized tools.

2. Having been through the process, been on some interviews and have some acceptances, I can assure anyone that DO schools certainly are not "EASY" to get into. This has been the most trying and draining process I have ever been through. Its literally exhausting and I look forward to ending it soon (pending an acceptance from my 1st. choice school). In addition, during the interviews we learn a lot about the curriculum and again, most of the current DO candidates I have talked to at the schools make it very clear that osteopathic medical school is extremely demanding and rigorous (as it is essentially identical to allopathic) however it even has an added component that allopathic students dont get--OMM.

So while in relative terms the DO schools might accept a larger % of students with lower MCAT scores (realizing that a score of 25+ usually indicates some level of academic ability) The DO schools average GPA are pretty much the same as most MD programs (except for the upper tier MD programs)

So the successful DO applicant in my opinion is CERTAINLY capable of completing an allopathic program;however, as a function of economics (supply) was not able to secure a position there because MD programs must use some criteria as to who they will grant acceptances to. I should also add as a caveat that there are MANY (probably the slight majority) of DO applicants who do NOT regard DO as an back-up option to an allopathic school---I for one have received an interview invitation to an allopathic program, but the school is geographically unfavorable and doesnt have residency programs where I would like to practice. My choice is to attend a DO school is based on the fact that I would like a U.S. medical education and ultimately practice in California. In addition, I have read about many applicants on this forum who have stellar numbers and chose DO programs for their own personal philosophies about medicine and the delivery of healthcare.

anyways....my rant is done. Good Luck to all of this years current cycle applicants (except that guy that wants to make sure all the CCOM students have high "stats" so that he can jack his ego off)😍

 

[brookliner7]

Thank you, hopefully this will be helpful to a lot of peeps! 🙂

 

[deleted72725]

I would not agree on some the staff you stated. It is my 3rd year applying. First 2 years I applied only to MD schools because I had no idea about DO schools. It is a hard process, and obviously I did not get in first two times. However, this year I am applying also to DO schools and the process is easy as one, two , three. Interviews are very casual and relaxing, hearing from schools so soon is very nice (i mean about secondaries, interviews and acceptances). So so far for me the process was piece of cake!😀

 

[NjD00]

I would not agree on some the staff you stated. It is my 3rd year applying. First 2 years I applied only to MD schools because I had no idea about DO schools. It is a hard process, and obviously I did not get in first two times. However, this year I am applying also to DO schools and the process is easy as one, two , three. Interviews are very casual and relaxing, hearing from schools so soon is very nice (i mean about secondaries, interviews and acceptances). So so far for me the process was piece of cake!😀

I have the very same circumstances as you Trab. Applied two years only MD cuz that's all I knew about. This third year, i'm 6 for 6 at the DO schools and haven't been invited for interviews yet at the two MD schools I applied to. I will attend either DMU or UNECOM regardless of what the MD schools say, but I think maybe its safe to say that getting into osteopathic school is really hard, but not as hard as an allopathic school.

 

[BadVB750]

I am mildly ******ed and got into DO school. I thank god I went to college cause otherwise I might have had to go into the military. Honestly, who cares. Just ask yourself, will you be a doc? will you get to help people? will you be in the top 1% income bracket?

 

[RDickerson]

will you be in the top 1% income bracket?

Actually, the answer to that is probably...no.

 

[TerpDO]

Trabada and NjD00, add me to your list. Exact same situation (3rd year applying but 1st year applying D.O. and I mean ALL D.O.) except I have been waitlisted at 1 D.O. school so far. But also I think it is my maturity after failing to matriculate into any medical schools in the past that has made me a slightly better applicant and thus doing better at the interviews than I would have done even last year. Anyways once I figure out where I am going to go I am going to start a thread stating the top 10 reasons why one should apply to D.O. schools. I mean in the last two months I went to Ft. Lauderdale and Vegas, my friends are like, are these schools for real? Yes my brother, yes indeed.

Also note to BadVD750, not top 1%, just top 4%. Nitpicky I know!

 

[doctor dork]

You may find the process is easier to get into an Osteopathic School but that doesn't mean you are any less qualified as a person be a medical student - MD or DO. (COM's typically have very friendly staff and friendly students.) Historically DO's are a little older (not right out of undergrad) and have more life experiences. School admissions at DO schools look at the WHOLE package because they know that there is more to being a good doctor than scoring high on the MCAT. They look at what makes you special - mission trips to an underserved area, in the army for 8 years, worked in real estate for 6 years, was a nurse/PT/chiro. Osteopathic schools look at you as person instead of a bunch of numbers that are supposed to describe you intellectual ability.
Now as for classes - the classes for osteopathic students are exactly the same as the allopathic students with one exception - OMM. At the COM I attend we have OMM for 3 or 4 hours each week and if you add that up that is a lot of class time. So as an osteopathic student you not only have to study for all the other classes an allopathic student takes but for OMM as well. As an osteopathic student you have to take COMLEX to graduate and the USLME if you want to enter into an ACGME residency.
So for those of you that say Osteopathic Medicine = easy acceptance, I disagree because there are many factors you are not considering. 1. The application pool is not as big for COM's as it is for allopathic schools because (as many of you have already admitted) there are not very many people who know about osteopathic medicine. 2. We take the same tests (shelf exams, boards) 3. OMS go through more schooling by having to take OMM.
While the process may be easier, I would venture to say our time spent in school and out in clinic may be more rigorous.

 

[DragonWell]

I should also add as a caveat that there are MANY (probably the slight majority) of DO applicants who do NOT regard DO as an back-up option to an allopathic school...

And you base this fact on?

 

[brookliner7]

And you base this fact on?

Well, I'm one of them. Only applied DO and got into A.T. Still first time around.

😀

 

[Dr JPH]

Actually, the answer to that is probably...no.

$700,000/year will get you into the top 1%

Average FPs salary will squeak you into top 3%

High paying specialty top 2%

OK...now let the "I know a guy who...." stories.

😉

 

[CaliBoi]

I think cuttinemup is a little insecure about his D.O. education

 

[Sarikate]

I mean in the last two months I went to Ft. Lauderdale and Vegas, my friends are like, are these schools for real? Yes my brother, yes indeed.

LOL

 

[DragonWell]

Well, I'm one of them. Only applied DO and got into A.T. Still first time around.

😀

Do you constitute a majority of DO applicants?

I should also add as a caveat that there are MANY (probably the slight majority) of DO applicants who do NOT regard DO as an back-up option to an allopathic school....

Much as I might like to believe this statement, it just doesn't seem to reflect current reality.

 

[laboholic]

DO schools are eaiser to get in to. You can't refute that. A lot of applicants simply dont know what a DO is or they want to have MD behind their names, so they prefer the MD route. On the flip side, I think that you can put a DO education from some of the better DO schools up against a lot of the MD schools that are out there (that is based on absolutely nothing but my opinion). So the point is that you are going to learn medicine just as well at a DO school... so go DO dude 😎

by the way, I heard that the next generation of super doctors are going to be DOs

 

[Testy McAterson]

i started out applying to both, but honestly my focus has shifted to DO. i really don't think it's that much easier to get into DO than, say, your state MD school, but applying DO provides more options--curriculum, location, etc. to choose from over waiting and hoping on said state MD school or misc. allopathic school to get around to noticing you. to be honest, i haven't sent the money or secondaries to most of my allopathic schools--i was an august mcater and a lot of the schools were already swamped with complete applicants by the time i would be 'complete' and i don't have the funding to play the 'apply everywhere' game. DO applications run on a better timeline for me and you get your results fast...the receptiveness of DO schools is so refreshing.

i think the allopathic route is harder--primarily based on the number of kids that apply and the fact that even if you have decent stats, if you don't apply very early in the process, you're screwed. as one of the DO specialists (anesthesiologist--doesn't use OMM) i met with said "you could wait a year and apply early and definitely get into an allopathic program--or you could reach the same endpoint via DO--and pocket $140+ thousand (he actually said 240K, but note his specialty) more by not waiting another year" good advice, if you ask me.

 

[DragonWell]

... as one of the DO specialists (anesthesiologist--doesn't use OMM) i met with said "you could wait a year and apply early and definitely get into an allopathic program--or you could reach the same endpoint via DO--and pocket $140+ thousand (he actually said 240K, but note his specialty) more by not waiting another year" good advice, if you ask me.

No offense, but, IMHO, that seems like a rather poor reason to choose DO over MD.

If you're going to look at it like that, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to wait a year, get into your state allopathic school and save yourself about $500,000 in student loan payments over the next 20 years?

 

[Hardbody]

No offense, but, IMHO, that seems like a rather poor reason to choose DO over MD.

If you're going to look at it like that, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to wait a year, get into your state allopathic school and save yourself about $500,000 in student loan payments over the next 20 years?

I think the reason that the poster you have cited gave is a valid one, but poorly worded. It is desirable to save yourself a year, and who is to say getting into an MD shool would be a sure thing if the poster waited a year (nothing is certain)? If I knew I would get into one of my state schools for sure if I waited an extra year, I would almost certainly wait the extra year, but that isn't certain.

 

[CuttinEmUp]

I think cuttinemup is a little insecure about his D.O. education

I think your a little ******ed. I am absolutely secure, and happy with my decision to attend an osteopathic medical school.

 

[NjD00]

Like I always say, osteopathy puts the "DO" back in Doctor👍

 

[Jamers]

I have the very same circumstances as you Trab. Applied two years only MD cuz that's all I knew about. This third year, i'm 6 for 6 at the DO schools and haven't been invited for interviews yet at the two MD schools I applied to. I will attend either DMU or UNECOM regardless of what the MD schools say, but I think maybe its safe to say that getting into osteopathic school is really hard, but not as hard as an allopathic school.

I think the one thing you are forgetting is that you are part of an elite 15% of the nation that has been invited to attend medical school. Nearly 75,000 people applied the year I applied and, if I remember correctly, only 25,000 were invited to attend. This doesn't count people who were invited to multiple schools either. Medical school is hard to get into, the end.

 

[NjD00]

... but I think maybe its safe to say that getting into osteopathic school is really hard....

.

 

[jason3278]

DO schools are NOT easy to get into. They may be easier to get into than MD schools, but it would be ******ed to say that any medical school is easy to get into. I'm learning that the hard way right now as I take O-chem & Physics I, and realize that I'm probably going to have to repeat them in order to get a high enough grade to get into one of those "super-easy-to-get-into DO schools".

 

[Buckeye4life]

Medical school is going to be time consuming, financially and emotionally draining, and one of the biggest commitments anyone will ever make in their lives. Residency will be more of the same and then some. No school of thought, DO or MD, is going to make a bit of difference if the person is not 100% committed to the field of medicine. A dying patient is not going to care what medical school you graduated from, or what you scored on your MCAT back in your 20's. The person may not even like you at all or want the treatment you're going to give them, for whatever reason. I'm an Asian-American, and I've come across the most racist people in the world, partly because of their advanced dementia. I've also had people call me the doctor, even a little 4 year old with cerebral palsy. If it's recognition for being a doctor and having people know you have completed so much schooling and training that you're after, then going to medical school may not be for you period. In the end, people are going to want to know you care, are competent, and present yourself in a professional manner. Medicine has so many different areas and there will be so many different situations that you'll face that you'll have never experienced, that I don't think you'll be looking at your MD or DO license in order to save the person's life or give them the best treatment or alternative.

Personally, I am a non-traditional student and DO schools are generally more accepting. Maybe it's because they look "holistically" at the application, or maybe some people who get slight lower scores on the MCAT have not had the basic sciences for 10+ years, but their dream is still to become a physician and DO schools provide them an opportunity. But again, if two little letters behind your name is what's making your decision to go one way or the other or causing you to think badly or inflated about yourself, there is something you need to learn that neither school is going to be able to teach you.

 

[Buckeye4life]

Medical school is going to be time consuming, financially and emotionally draining, and one of the biggest commitments anyone will ever make in their lives. Residency will be more of the same and then some. No school of thought, DO or MD, is going to make a bit of difference if the person is not 100% committed to the field of medicine. A dying patient is not going to care what medical school you graduated from, or what you scored on your MCAT back in your 20's. The person may not even like you at all or want the treatment you're going to give them, for whatever reason. I'm an Asian-American, and I've come across the most racist people in the world, partly because of their advanced dementia. I've also had people call me the doctor, even a little 4 year old with cerebral palsy. If it's recognition for being a doctor and having people know you have completed so much schooling and training that you're after, then going to medical school may not be for you period. In the end, people are going to want to know you care, are competent, and present yourself in a professional manner. Medicine has so many different areas and there will be so many different situations that you'll face that you'll have never experienced, that I don't think you'll be looking at your MD or DO license in order to save the person's life or give them the best treatment or alternative.

Personally, I am a non-traditional student and DO schools are generally more accepting. Maybe it's because they look "holistically" at the application, or maybe some people who get slight lower scores on the MCAT have not had the basic sciences for 10+ years, but their dream is still to become a physician and DO schools provide them an opportunity. But again, if two little letters behind your name is what's making your decision to go one way or the other or causing you to think badly or inflated about yourself, there is something you need to learn that neither school is going to be able to teach you.

 

[Kuba]

I think the one thing you are forgetting is that you are part of an elite 15% of the nation that has been invited to attend medical school. Nearly 75,000 people applied the year I applied and, if I remember correctly, only 25,000 were invited to attend. This doesn't count people who were invited to multiple schools either. Medical school is hard to get into, the end.

50% of applicants gain acceptance to allopathic schools each year according to the AAMC.

 

[edge_of_me]

i'm taking part in the maddness :S whether it's getting into MD or DO school, or playing hop scotch, i do believe "easy" and "hard" are relative terms :S maybe? I wish i knew how to site other post cause “pguin” had a kick ass one about the differences in MD and DO stats.

 

[DragonWell]

15% of the nation? WTF? 44 million acceptances a year?

Doesn't sound very elite to me. What you smoking over there at DMU Jamers? 🙄

I think the one thing you are forgetting is that you are part of an elite 15% of the nation that has been invited to attend medical school. Nearly 75,000 people applied the year I applied and, if I remember correctly, only 25,000 were invited to attend. This doesn't count people who were invited to multiple schools either. Medical school is hard to get into, the end.

 

[Jamers]

15% of the nation? WTF? 44 million acceptances a year?

Doesn't sound very elite to me. What you smoking over there at DMU Jamers? 🙄

Aww sweetheart, I guess you forgot how to read. I guess you could somehow turn 25,000 acceptances a year into 44 million, I am not sure how, but I hear PCP does some weird things to your brain. 15% of the total population of the nation are physicians. Don't worry, read it again, you will get it. If you don't, message me, I will walk you through it. Just remember the apple trick, if you have 25,000 apples and I take three away, you have 44 million apples...whoa..wait...

 

[Jamers]

50% of applicants gain acceptance to allopathic schools each year according to the AAMC.

The number I put there was total acceptances, MD AND DO.

 

[Packamylase]

Aww sweetheart, I guess you forgot how to read. I guess you could somehow turn 25,000 acceptances a year into 44 million, I am not sure how, but I hear PCP does some weird things to your brain. 15% of the total population of the nation are physicians. Don't worry, read it again, you will get it. If you don't, message me, I will walk you through it. Just remember the apple trick, if you have 25,000 apples and I take three away, you have 44 million apples...whoa..wait...

15% seems pretty high. Where do you get that?

 

[t-funk]

I am not sure about that but I do recall hearing a statistic once where 2-3% of the nation's population have a doctorate of some kind including professional degrees and PhDs, about 8% have masters and 23% have bachelors. 15% is just plain impossible!

 

[NjD00]

Someone (i think JPhazelton) found that a primary care physician's pay will get you into the top 4% income bracket of the population. If 15% of America are physicians, earning a primary care salary or greater, wouldn't being a physician put you in the top 15% income?

 

[DragonWell]

Aww sweetheart, I guess you forgot how to read. I guess you could somehow turn 25,000 acceptances a year into 44 million, I am not sure how, but I hear PCP does some weird things to your brain. 15% of the total population of the nation are physicians. Don't worry, read it again, you will get it. If you don't, message me, I will walk you through it. Just remember the apple trick, if you have 25,000 apples and I take three away, you have 44 million apples...whoa..wait...

Umm, I'm not sure which nation you're talking about, but here in the US and A, our population is rapidly approaching 300 million souls.

15% of 300 million = 45 000 000

Exact numbers differ, but most estimates of US physicians I have seen put the number at around 800,000.

I think you may want to look at your percentage my friend.

 

[Kuba]

15% of the country are NOT doctors. and 50% of applicant get accepted to allopathic schools. stop making up numbers. http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005summary.htm

 

[Jamers]

15% of the country are NOT doctors. and 50% of applicant get accepted to allopathic schools. stop making up numbers. http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005summary.htm

This is what I get for listening to people and not backing up my numbers. Everyone is right, I am a jackass: the best source I have found is the current number of physicians is about 800,000. Maybe I should stop smoking the corn. I think that still goes to prove the point I was trying to make before: we are an elite part of the popualtion. If you would like to attack me on the fact that I put down a dated number given to me by a physician I was interviewing with, then I guess go ahead. I did not make up the number, but I guess you could believe that as well. I enjoy coming on websites to make up facts and numbers. It gets me through the day to know that I have forced someone to type into google and prove me wrong. Anyways, I applogize for using the unsupported number, I should have checked it before posting but I was a little too busy and was just trying to make the point that we are an elite part of the population; getting into medical school is not easy. I am sure DRKUBA is masterbating into the computer screen as we speak :-D.

 

[Kuba]

This is what I get for listening to people and not backing up my numbers. Everyone is right, I am a jackass: the best source I have found is the current number of physicians is about 800,000. Maybe I should stop smoking the corn. I think that still goes to prove the point I was trying to make before: we are an elite part of the popualtion. If you would like to attack me on the fact that I put down a dated number given to me by a physician I was interviewing with, then I guess go ahead. I did not make up the number, but I guess you could believe that as well. I enjoy coming on websites to make up facts and numbers. It gets me through the day to know that I have forced someone to type into google and prove me wrong. Anyways, I applogize for using the unsupported number, I should have checked it before posting but I was a little too busy and was just trying to make the point that we are an elite part of the population; getting into medical school is not easy. I am sure DRKUBA is masterbating into the computer screen as we speak :-D.

you are way to sensitive dude

 

[Jamers]

you are way to sensitive dude

That is why I use a special soap when I shower...oo wait...

 

[MikeyLu2010]

DO definately does NOT equate to easy....

 

[Mixtli]

It seems some people in this thread have really bought into the "DO philosophy" and prefer DO over MD (if given the choice). However, I would like to caution there are far more MD residency spots than DO spots (greater % of DO students fail to match). There are more residency options for MDs than DOs. Because of the shortage of primary care physicians, MDs who decide to go into primary care and perform average to above average on the boards, will have the his/her top choice of residency. In sum, if one is really concerned about residency options, MD is a better option than DO.

 

[pguin]

DO definately does NOT equate to easy....

damnit there goes my whole getting laid in med school plan!...

oh your talking about the classes...

yea they're probably tough since it is medical school after all...

but on the positive side this still leaves on the table the possibility that DO's are easy

 

[MaximusD]

50% of applicants gain acceptance to allopathic schools each year according to the AAMC.

The correct statistic is 2:1 rejected:accepted. My father made the same mistake you did. This actually means that 1/3 of the applicants receive a spot... I don't mean to be rude drkuba, just wanted to let ya know. That doesn't include DO schools and FMG which probably brings that closer to 50 percent... NO FLAMES, FMG does not equal DO.

 

[Kuba]

The correct statistic is 2:1 rejected:accepted. My father made the same mistake you did. This actually means that 1/3 of the applicants receive a spot... I don't mean to be rude drkuba, just wanted to let ya know. That doesn't include DO schools and FMG which probably brings that closer to 50 percent... NO FLAMES, FMG does not equal DO.

i dont get it....when you take the published data for 2005 for example - total applicants=37,364 and total acceptees=17978. Divide that and you get 48% accepted.....how did you get 2:1 ratio? It looks 1:1 to me.

 

[scpod]

i dont get it....when you take the published data for 2005 for example - total applicants=37,364 and total acceptees=17978. Divide that and you get 48% accepted.....how did you get 2:1 ratio? It looks 1:1 to me.

Those are the best numbers that you can find, so I'd go with that. Unfortunately, the ostropathic numbers are a little hard to accurately determine (and the published numbers are a few years behind still). In 2003, there were 8305 applicants for 3,308 seats. However, 1350 aplicants were TMDSAS applicants for TCOM. There's really no way to tell how many of them are also included in the AACOMAS applicants. I'm sure some applied somewhere other than Texas too. Was it 50%, 75%, or 90%??? Nobody knows. So the 2003 figures would show that somewhere between 40 and 50 percent of applicants were accepted.

Some confusion in numbers could come from people finding the total number of applications instead of applicants. There were actually 39,028 applications to DO schools in 2003 because the average applicant applied to 6 schools. I haven't been able to find the actual number of applications for allopathic schools, but it would be interesting to know as well.

 

[Mixtli]

The percentages are a little decieving. A majority of students who hold apply to MD and DO schools and get a MD acceptance will drop their DO interviews, while a minority of students who get a DO acceptance will drop their MD interviews. So while it may appear 50% of students getting accepted to DO, it may be because a good percentage realize DO may not be in their best interest vice versa for MD programs but to a lesser degree.

 

[LWestenhofer]

Just to throw in my two cents, I would have been accepted into the two, well-respected allopathic schools in my home state- I met with representatives including the deans, etc. I chose DO over MD despite the fact that there are no schools in my state and few in the southeast region because I researched the subject, read some articles, followed a few DOs long term, and asked their patients what they liked most about their doctors. The resounding response from patients tipped me over the edge in my decision to apply only DO. The patients truly liked and trusted their physicians- even if they had a neccessarily stand-offish relationship, the patients knew their best interests were at heart. As an RN, constantly counseling patients about what a doctor meant when he said this, why is he so rude, etc., this stood out. I then read an article in JoAP I think which broke down amount to time spent on average with patients in offices by NPs, PAs, MDs, and DOs. MDs averaged, I think, 11 min. DOs averaged 20-22 min- doesn't that say it all?

 

[MaximusD]

wow so the people at psu are dinguses once again. in my HPA class they made us memorize 2:1 rejected:accepted. Maybe that is an outdated number. Thanks for the recorrection drkuba.👍

 

[silly_cupid_81]

i think we should just all agree that both DO AND MD are not "easy" , any way you look at it. and that in the end, no field is necessarily "better" (qualitative assesment) b/c it depends on the person which one fits more with his/herself.

however, based purely on the amount of people applying and the spots available, it can be said that MD is harder to get into. this doesnt make DO any easier to get into. just that statistically there are more people applying for MD with few spots.

agree?

 

[Taus]

wow so the people at psu are dinguses once again. in my HPA class they made us memorize 2:1 rejected:accepted. Maybe that is an outdated number. Thanks for the recorrection drkuba.👍

is it still taught by that pompous d*&chebag who seems to mention that he trained at Hopkins about 5 times per class?

 

[HumbleMD]

I think your a little ******ed. I am absolutely secure, and happy with my decision to attend an osteopathic medical school.

So D.O. is supposed to attract people based on a preference for the wonderful philosphy of D.O. medicine (which I am quite in sync with and happy to see the M.D. schools adopting some tenants of)?

You pre-DO's are really showing it. Note above comment using the offensive "R" word, and the major justification of many of you for doing D.O. as money. And as far as D.O. applicants being better rounded and having awesome experiences, guess what? M.D. applicants, as you say, are quite competitive - so much so that there are plenty of people who have done incredible things and know how to do well on the MCAT and have a great GPA.

And now to throw in my own anecdote, which is what so many here are relying upon. My cousin, who did poorly on the MCAT and had a very average GPA applied M.D. and D.O., and didn't get either. He's one racist S.O.B. and has no business practicing medicine, let alone even interacting with patients (so put aside that D.O.'s care more about their patients crap). Where is he now? At Kirksville in some ridiculous post-bac pre-osteo program which basically allows him to "buy" his way into medical school (although osteopathic).

And as far as osteopaths spending more time with their patients, did you ever think that perhaps they have to becuase their diagnosis technique isn't as good as an M.D.'s (less efficient)? I'm just throwing it out there...

I'd love to see oseopathic schools host well-qualified students who care more about their patients, but you osteopathic folks need to stop deluding yourselves and justifying your own inadequacies, and face the reality of the current situation.