DO schools no longer doing GPA replacement!

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Lazy, OP.

AACOM said:
Effective May 1, 2017, AACOMAS will include all course attempts in the GPA calculation. This change applies to students matriculating into the 2018-2019 academic year. In the event of multiple attempts of the same course, AACOMAS will no longer drop initial course attempts from the GPA calculation.
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http://www.aacom.org/become-a-doctor/applying/notice-of-repeat-coursework-policy-change

Should be noted that schools themselves are still free to continue using grade replacement as their philosophy, but the verified GPA they will receive from AACOMAS will be this average-of-all-retakes one.
 
There is a massive meltdown that has been going since news of this change leaked over in Pre-Osteo

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/end-of-grade-replacement.1236066/

The TL;DR:

They've been looking into stopping grade replacement for years, with minor mention of reviewing this policy going back to 2011.

About 2 years ago, AACOMAS signed a contract with Liason International (their vendor) that promised an end to grade replacement after a year. Liason went beyond contractual obligation and did a second year. None of this was accessible to applicants.

There will not be a third year - this bomb was just officially dropped yesterday and takes immediate effect for the coming cycle.

A huge number of people find this outrageously immoral. They knew for years this change was coming, never made any effort to warn applicants, and have now cut the value of postbacc repair in half overnight for DO applicants. Many of these applicants had thousands of dollars and a year or more invested into their grade repair.

Expected effects: nothing much expected for the overall stats. GPAs among the whole population will only see an impact of 0.01-0.03 according to AACOMAS, because it was only a small minority that were relying on replacement being so much more helpful than averaging. The fact that AACOMAS and AMCAS now use identical GPA calculation, along with the merging residences, has been leading to a lot of speculation about a LCME/COCA merger, as well as about DO becoming much more commonly present on applications for MD borderline applicants. DO has also become much less viable as a route for people with many early fail grades due to the mathematics of replacement vs average (F --> A with one course, vs F --> B with three courses).

Schools are free to continue calculating GPAs differently themselves, but it seems to be consensus that a typical admissions office will not have the resources/time to go back and recalculate/verify a GPA using replacement. My guess is that replacement ceases pretty universally at the school level too.
 
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freak7 said:
WAMC is going to be way more depressing now...
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Yep, grade repair time has effectively doubled or tripled for a lot of people that previously would have been happy to go DO.

Doing a lot better than typical applicants on the MCAT will now be the most sought after way to save a low GPA, much like its been with MD, I bet.
 
I think the DO average matriculant gpa will drop and they will end up taking people from the same pool of applicants. This policy won't magically bring applicants with higher gpa into the pool and DO schools still have to fill their classes.
 
I still do not think this is going to have that huge of an effect, but I understand why people who have put it a lot of effort in grade replacement feel defeated. Didn't they state that the average GPA changes from grade replacement like ~.03?

My thought is that DO admissions know that this policy is somewhat blindsiding. The applicant pool is not changing. Only the number next to their name. The people who have taken years to remediate grades will still be looked on favorably by adcoms, regardless if the change in their GPA was not as signficant.
 
libertyyne said:
I think the DO average matriculant gpa will drop and they will end up taking people from the same pool of applicants. This policy won't magically bring applicants with higher gpa into the pool and DO schools still have to fill their classes.
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I think the true DO average matriculant GPA will be the same, they'll just have to report it as AMCAS would've reported it which will appear lower.

Or am I way wrong about their process?
 
Frogger27 said:
I still do not think this is going to have that huge of an effect, but I understand why people who have put it a lot of effort in grade replacement feel defeated. Didn't they state that the average GPA changes from grade replacement like ~.03?

My thought is that DO admissions know that this policy is somewhat blindsiding. The applicant pool is not changing. Only the number next to their name. The people who have taken years to remediate grades will still be looked on favorably by adcoms, regardless if the change in their GPA was not as signficant.
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My thoughts are the same although I think DYI postbaccs and SMPs will be the go-to for all candidates who need to improve their GPA as opposed to grade replacement which will be somewhat of a waste of time now.

I'm in the same camp with the other posters who don't think the policy is that scandalous (although, personally, I think the old way was better for DO) but think that AACOMAS really boned Pre-Osteos on this one the way it was handled and is to be implemented.
 
Lucca said:
My thoughts are the same although I think DYI postbaccs and SMPs will be the go-to for all candidates who need to improve their GPA as opposed to grade replacement which will be somewhat of a waste of time now.

I'm in the same camp with the other posters who don't think the policy is that scandalous (although, personally, I think the old way was better for DO) but think that AACOMAS really boned Pre-Osteos on this one the way it was handled and is to be implemented.
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I think people who got D/F in classes should re-take those classes... But agree if it is just a bunch of C's it would be better to continue to take upper level classes rather than retake those ones. But in saying that, I do think the students who banked on retakes this upcoming cycle will not be as screwed as they think they are
 
libertyyne said:
Discuss
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0299acf045018afdf3df8cb5e2674702.jpg



But in all seriousness, implementing this policy change next year is extremely unfair and unprofessional. They knew this was gonna happen for a few years and kept quiet! Hardworking people spent years of their lives, thousands of dollars only to get shafted right before the finish line.

Also, the pre osteo thread on this topic is so entertaining to read. https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/end-of-grade-replacement.1236066/
 
efle said:
There is a massive meltdown that has been going since news of this change leaked over in Pre-Osteo

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/end-of-grade-replacement.1236066/

The TL;DR:

They've been looking into stopping grade replacement for years, with minor mention of reviewing this policy going back to 2011.

About 2 years ago, AACOMAS signed a contract with Liason International (their vendor) that promised an end to grade replacement after a year. Liason went beyond contractual obligation and did a second year. None of this was accessible to applicants.

There will not be a third year - this bomb was just officially dropped yesterday and takes immediate effect for the coming cycle.

A huge number of people find this outrageously immoral. They knew for years this change was coming, never made any effort to warn applicants, and have now cut the value of postbacc repair in half overnight for DO applicants. Many of these applicants had thousands of dollars and a year or more invested into their grade repair.

Expected effects: nothing much expected for the overall stats. GPAs among the whole population will only see an impact of 0.01-0.03 according to AACOMAS, because it was only a small minority that were relying on replacement being so much more helpful than averaging. The fact that AACOMAS and AMCAS now use identical GPA calculation, along with the merging residences, has been leading to a lot of speculation about a LCME/COCA merger, as well as about DO becoming much more commonly present on applications for MD borderline applicants. DO has also become much less viable as a route for people with many early fail grades due to the mathematics of replacement vs average (F --> A with one course, vs F --> B with three courses).

Schools are free to continue calculating GPAs differently themselves, but it seems to be consensus that a typical admissions office will not have the resources/time to go back and recalculate/verify a GPA using replacement. My guess is that replacement ceases pretty universally at the school level too.
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I actually have little sympathy for those applicants and the concept of it being "immoral" is a little asinine. I understand the concept of being nice and even beyond that doing things so that people like you. But, if you buy the concept that they 'owe' applicants, you are in for a rude awakening when you enter the real world. It WOULD have been nice if they had given a heads up, but I'm not really buying the whole "screwing over" anyone. The applicants who were doing grade replacement were taking those classes because they did very poorly in their academics. The only thing that will change is their GPA, as will everyone's. But, if you did incredibly poor in basic pre-med classes, you should be retaking them anyways.
 
mimelim said:
I actually have little sympathy for those applicants and the concept of it being "immoral" is a little asinine. I understand the concept of being nice and even beyond that doing things so that people like you. But, if you buy the concept that they 'owe' applicants, you are in for a rude awakening when you enter the real world. It WOULD have been nice if they had given a heads up, but I'm not really buying the whole "screwing over" anyone. The applicants who were doing grade replacement were taking those classes because they did very poorly in their academics. The only thing that will change is their GPA, as will everyone's. But, if you did incredibly poor in basic pre-med classes, you should be retaking them anyways.
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It seems wrong to know this was coming for years and keep that quiet though, no? Not just apathetic, but wrong. People that were trying to repair half a dozen fail grades with a semester of postbacc might drop right back below screens now even having retaken their class. Maybe people would've gone SMP if they knew they'd need 3x as much postbacc work as they thought to get up to 3.3-3.4, that kind of thing. It seems to really punish a small group of people late to realize their interest in medicine out of laziness from AACOMAS.

To me it would be like AMCAS announcing in May 2016 that they were only going to display the new MCAT score this cycle, having quietly planned this since 2014. Tough luck for the minority that took the old test but then needed a gap year. Their fault for not being ready to apply when they took it.
 
mimelim said:
I actually have little sympathy for those applicants and the concept of it being "immoral" is a little asinine. I understand the concept of being nice and even beyond that doing things so that people like you. But, if you buy the concept that they 'owe' applicants, you are in for a rude awakening when you enter the real world. It WOULD have been nice if they had given a heads up, but I'm not really buying the whole "screwing over" anyone. The applicants who were doing grade replacement were taking those classes because they did very poorly in their academics. The only thing that will change is their GPA, as will everyone's. But, if you did incredibly poor in basic pre-med classes, you should be retaking them anyways.
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And let's not forget that the people relying heavily on grade replacement are a small minority of the applicant pool. DO has primarily and historically been a refuge of low MCAT applicants and non-trads.
 
R.I.P to all the future pre-meds that will be weeded out bc of this lol
 
So now if you graduate college with a 2.0 GPA you would need almost 7 years(summer included) of A grades in science courses to raise the GPA to a 3.5 and then you would need to get a decent MCAT in order to be competitive for D.O
 
You know, I'm pre allopathic, and I withdrew two classes this semester. I withdrew Orgo, and I don't think I need to explain that lol. But I also withdrew a molecular bio class due to a terrible professor who was not willing to curve anybody's grade and who's average grade in the class was below a C-. When I realized I was gonna mess up orgo, I was thinking of retaking so that I wouldnt need tot ake the lab again, but my prof urged me to Withdraw. I did, and after the W deadline, I learned that the AMCAS gpa calculation ( for allopathic schools) did not have grade replacement. I feel like most people who come close to bombing a class realize they should withdraw, and I feel like this policy will only disrupt people with low grades in undergrad total.

Oh btw, I'm new! Hello, everybody!
 
mwsapphire said:
You know, I'm pre allopathic, and I withdrew two classes this semester. I withdrew Orgo, and I don't think I need to explain that lol. But I also withdrew a molecular bio class due to a terrible professor who was not willing to curve anybody's grade and who's average grade in the class was below a C-. When I realized I was gonna mess up orgo, I was thinking of retaking so that I wouldnt need tot ake the lab again, but my prof urged me to Withdraw. I did, and after the W deadline, I learned that the AMCAS gpa calculation ( for allopathic schools) did not have grade replacement. I feel like most people who come close to bombing a class realize they should withdraw, and I feel like this policy will only disrupt people with low grades in undergrad total.

Oh btw, I'm new! Hello, everybody!
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Welcome! Good decision
 
mwsapphire said:
You know, I'm pre allopathic, and I withdrew two classes this semester. I withdrew Orgo, and I don't think I need to explain that lol. But I also withdrew a molecular bio class due to a terrible professor who was not willing to curve anybody's grade and who's average grade in the class was below a C-. When I realized I was gonna mess up orgo, I was thinking of retaking so that I wouldnt need tot ake the lab again, but my prof urged me to Withdraw. I did, and after the W deadline, I learned that the AMCAS gpa calculation ( for allopathic schools) did not have grade replacement. I feel like most people who come close to bombing a class realize they should withdraw, and I feel like this policy will only disrupt people with low grades in undergrad total.

Oh btw, I'm new! Hello, everybody!
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Yeah...I don't really understand how people can have so many terrible grades. I would take a few W's over a few F's/D's/C's any day.

But at the end of the day, the people who want to become physicians will do so. Now, people will have to overcome the good ole' fashion way.

[Edit] And now they have a (poorly written) petition. Some would say that if they only put this much time and energy into their coursework this would not be a big deal...(OMG I sound like my DAD!)
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
Yeah...I don't really understand how people can have so many terrible grades. I would take a few W's over a few F's/D's/C's any day.

But at the end of the day, the people who want to become physicians will do so. Now, people will have to overcome the good ole' fashion way.
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Not everyone is at the same level of maturity at the start of college or during college, some people realize their passion for medicine after graduating. I am a proponent of empathy for the folks out there with terrible grades at some point of their UG. Because it doesn't take much for a life to be turned upside down.
 
mwsapphire said:
You know, I'm pre allopathic, and I withdrew two classes this semester. I withdrew Orgo, and I don't think I need to explain that lol. But I also withdrew a molecular bio class due to a terrible professor who was not willing to curve anybody's grade and who's average grade in the class was below a C-. When I realized I was gonna mess up orgo, I was thinking of retaking so that I wouldnt need tot ake the lab again, but my prof urged me to Withdraw. I did, and after the W deadline, I learned that the AMCAS gpa calculation ( for allopathic schools) did not have grade replacement. I feel like most people who come close to bombing a class realize they should withdraw, and I feel like this policy will only disrupt people with low grades in undergrad total.

Oh btw, I'm new! Hello, everybody!
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Thing is, you're aware you're premed, and that you need to protect your GPA.

Now imagine you didn't really give a crap about your grades for most of undergrad before discovering interest in medicine. An MD isn't really feasible (you're the type to get an MD-borderline MCAT) but good news! DO allows grade replacement! So you spend a year and a few thousand bucks retaking a bunch of your C- and D and other garbage grades, and are on track to have a low ~3.2 that will be probably good enough for DO alongside a high 20s MCAT!

And then you find out just kidding, you actually are going to have a 2.95 even after a year of retaking, and the median DO applicant GPA overall will still be sitting pretty at ~3.5 because not many are impacted by this like you are. And of course, this change has been coming for a few years, they just didn't make that information available to anyone.

Would you be mad? I'd be mad.
 
libertyyne said:
Not everyone is at the same level of maturity at the start of college or during college, some people realize their passion for medicine after graduating. I am a proponent of empathy for the folks out there with terrible grades at some point of their UG. Because it doesn't take much for a life to be turned upside down.
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I can understand that. But there are many applicants who overcome odds to both succeed and achieve regardless of the situation. This is a competitive process and life isn't fair. I didn't do what it took to become a professional hockey player. I can't go back and start again in mites or pee-wees to prove myself...

And I certainly believe in second chances. But I believe those second chances should come through hard work via grad school, SMP, or post-bacc. Sitting through a class or a hoard of classes a second time is useless and a poor use of money (especially if it's the governments money).
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
I can understand that. But there are many applicants who overcome odds to both succeed and achieve regardless of the situation. This is a competitive process and life isn't fair. I didn't do what it took to become a professional hockey player. I can't go back and start again in mites or pee-wees to prove myself...

And I certainly believe in second chances. But I believe those second chances should come through hard work via grad school, SMP, or post-bacc. Sitting through a class or a hoard of classes a second time is useless and a poor use of money (especially if it's the governments money).
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That's not really a fair comparison
 
efle said:
Thing is, you're aware you're premed, and that you need to protect your GPA.

Now imagine you didn't really give a crap about your grades for most of undergrad before discovering interest in medicine. An MD isn't really feasible (you're the type to get an MD-borderline MCAT) but good news! DO allows grade replacement! So you spend a year and a few thousand bucks retaking a bunch of your C- and D and other garbage grades, and are on track to have a low ~3.2 that will be probably good enough for DO alongside a high 20s MCAT!

And then you find out just kidding, you actually are going to have a 2.95 even after a year of retaking, and the median DO applicant GPA overall will still be sitting pretty at ~3.5 because not many are impacted by this like you are. And of course, this change has been coming for a few years, they just didn't make that information available to anyone.

Would you be mad? I'd be mad.
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My argument is that there are a limited number of applicants with MCATs in the acceptable range. DO schools will obviously look to post bacs /recent grades to show aptitude. I am unsure they they screen gpas on the DO side considering they are always talking about holism.

The hypothetical applicant you are talking about will still in all likelihood review consideration.
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
I can understand that. But there are many applicants who overcome odds to both succeed and achieve regardless of the situation. This is a competitive process and life isn't fair. I didn't do what it took to become a professional hockey player. I can't go back and start again in mites or pee-wees to prove myself...

And I certainly believe in second chances. But I believe those second chances should come through hard work via grad school, SMP, or post-bacc. Sitting through a class or a hoard of classes a second time is useless and a poor use of money (especially if it's the governments money).
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What do you think a post bac is?
 
machete fred said:
That's not really a fair comparison
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I understand that it's not fair. But again, this is the generation that believes actions do not have consequences and that Jim or Sally deserves to be what they want to be regardless of past history. That's not the way the real world works. And it's not like these students don't have any options: post-bacc, SMP, grad school, etc.

The easiest way was stolen, and that's why they are having a meltdown.
 
libertyyne said:
My argument is that there are a limited number of applicants with MCATs in the acceptable range. DO schools will obviously look to post bacs /recent grades to show aptitude. I am unsure they they screen gpas on the DO side considering they are always talking about holism.

The hypothetical applicant you are talking about will still in all likelihood review consideration.
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Eh, if I recall correctly the median DO applicant had a 26 last cycle and there were just over 3 applicants per seat (slightly worse ratio than MD actually). I don't think the process is so easy to get an admit that having a reasonable MCAT protects you like that.
 
libertyyne said:
What do you think a post bac is?
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I'm sorry, I'm new to SDN and its belief that everyone does a post-bacc at BU or some other money drain. Most of the people where I come from paid for their own, self-directed post-bacc at state schools or CC.

Moreover, some people enter post-bacc without a science background. New education is never a bad education.
 
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Nietzsche's Barber said:
I understand that it's not fair. But again, this is the generation that believes actions do not have consequences and that Jim or Sally deserves to be what they want to be regardless of past history. That's not the way the real world works. And it's not like these students don't have any options: post-bacc, SMP, grad school, etc.
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Easy there with the stereotyping you are part of this generation as well. No one is saying people should be admitted without showing reform through excellence post bac and grade replacement serve that purpose.
Nietzsche's Barber said:
I'm sorry, I'm new to SDN and its belief that everyone does a post-bacc at BU or some other money drain. Most of the people where I come from paid for their own, self-directed post-bacc at state schools or CC.
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They are literally taking the same classes that they possibly took in UG and didn't perform as well in. That was the point grade replacement and post bac have a lot more overlap in purpose and amount of effort.
 
libertyyne said:
Easy there with the stereotyping you are part of this generation as well. No one is saying people should be admitted without showing reform through excellence post bac and grade replacement serve that purpose.

They are literally taking the same classes that they possibly took in UG and didn't perform as well in. That was the point grade replacement and post bac have a lot more overlap in purpose and amount of effort.
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To use your quote, easy with the stereotyping. Some people who do post-bacc have no science background (i.e. are not repeating ANYTHING).

More importantly, I disagree with your belief that sitting through a class a second time is a great way to show reform. If only I could do everything twice...this is not realistic and it's not a good lesson to teach people moving forward in life.

Nevertheless, they were told x and received y. And that is awful.
 
efle said:
Eh, if I recall correctly the median DO applicant had a 26 last cycle and there were just over 3 applicants per seat (slightly worse ratio than MD actually). I don't think the process is so easy to get an admit that having a reasonable MCAT protects you like that.
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Take out the applicants that will matriculate at MD from the top end of that and you are likely to be left with applicants with high 20s MCATs matriculating. It's not like the lower MCAT scorers are going to suddenly become more appealing to do schools . Would you rather take a 4.0 , 17 or a 2.7 ,30?
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
To use your quote, easy with the stereotyping. Some people who do post-bacc have no science background (i.e. are not repeating ANYTHING).

More importantly, I disagree with your belief that sitting through a class a second time is a great way to show reform. If only I could do everything twice...this is not realistic and it's not a good lesson to teach people moving forward in life.
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So my parents die in a horrible car accident and I get DS in a semester worth of science pre-reqs and suddenly I deserve no empathy or opportunity to show reform through getting As in those same classes 3 years later?
 
libertyyne said:
Take out the applicants that will matriculate at MD from the top end of that and you are likely to be left with applicants with high 20s MCATs matriculating. It's not like the lower MCAT scorers are going to suddenly become more appealing to do schools . Would you rather take a 4.0 , 17 or a 2.7 ,30?
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True.
 
libertyyne said:
So my parents die in a horrible car accident and I get DS in a semester worth of science pre-reqs and suddenly I deserve no empathy or opportunity to show reform through getting As in those same classes 3 years later?
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I didn't say that. People have this false belief that schools are not understanding and are cold and callous. And I'm not talking about people from unique circumstances. There is a kid in my class who fought in Iraq and got in with a 3.1 (and deservingly so!). I'm talking about people who didn't care the first time, which is the majority (I believe).
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
I understand that it's not fair. But again, this is the generation that believes actions do not have consequences and that Jim or Sally deserves to be what they want to be regardless of past history. That's not the way the real world works. And it's not like these students don't have any options: post-bacc, SMP, grad school, etc.

The easiest way was stolen, and that's why they are having a meltdown.
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Is it really that difficult to feel sympathy towards someone who just likely had thousands of hours and dollars (even more in opportunity cost) go down the drain because of the logistical technicalities of a policy that they were not informed of? I would be absolutely livid.

Also i know quite a few people hurt by this who suffered academically in college due to personal or family problems including depression, financial circumstances, and family tragedies. People wonder why the culture in medicine is so horrible and it starts with this sort of attitude. "Screw the applicants they will apply anyways".
 
some the people in this thread seem to have very little empathy for others. There are a plethora of reasons for retaking classes and for people who spent years and thousands of dollars to get screwed right before applying is immoral. The fact that people high up KNEW this change was occurring and said nothing for years is disgusting. If given notice, people could've better spent their time,money by taking upper level courses or doing an SMP/Post Bac or even pursued other careers. And to be fair, you can't blame the students for not having this foresight because literally everyone ranging from DO adcoms to advisors advised people under the assumption that this policy would continue. Heck, look at this thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-grade-replacement-rumor.1171032/

Who knows, this policy might not end up hurting applicants much and we are overrreacting. But if it impacts applicants as we fear, I don't know how anyone can take AACOMAS seriously
 
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machete fred said:
Is it really that difficult to feel sympathy towards someone who just likely had thousands of hours and dollars (even more in opportunity cost) go down the drain because of the logistical technicalities of a policy that they were not informed of? I would be absolutely livid.

Also i know quite a few people hurt by this who suffered academically in college due to personal or family problems including depression, financial circumstances, and family tragedies. People wonder why the culture in medicine is so horrible and it starts with this sort of attitude. "Screw the applicants they will apply anyways".
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You are misunderstanding my entire argument. At my previous job, do you know what my boss would tell me if I told him I was depressed or had a family tragedy? Get back to work or I will find someone else to replace you. This my friend, is real life!!! In the future, if you think people will care that you have something terrible going on and will give you a pass, you are SADLY mistaken.

There is something to be said for doing things right, and there are far too many qualified applicants to keep considering people who have to do things a second, third, fourth, etc. time.


I feel sorry for the applicants who got screwed, I really do. But obviously that organization felt like changes had to be made.
 
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The people who will suffer the most are not the borderline applicants/people just under a 3.0. I firmly believe that with 20+ credits upper level coursework (formal or informal), DO ADCOMS will still look favorably at these students even without technical grade replacement. Perhaps schools will adjust their automatic screens to account for this change (lower the threshold so more actual human eyes are seeing the apps).

The people I feel the worst for are the ones with multiple failures, whole semester D/F's because of family issues, tragedies, lack of maturity etc. It will be really hard to dig themselves out without grade replacement.

However for the DO applicant population as a whole, I don't think it's THAT big of a deal. Aside from, you know, dropping the bomb suddenly and without warning 5 months before AACOMAS opens.
 
libertyyne said:
So my parents die in a horrible car accident and I get DS in a semester worth of science pre-reqs and suddenly I deserve no empathy or opportunity to show reform through getting As in those same classes 3 years later?
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Yep
I know someone with a terrible GPA but that is because he worked extremely hard just to get by while in college.
Easy to judge when you aren't in someone else's shoes.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
Yep
I know someone with a terrible GPA but that is because he worked extremely hard just to get by while in college.
Easy to judge when you aren't in someone else's shoes.
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Ok so now think about this...

If you look at my short post history, I spilled the beans that I grew up dirt poor and in foster care. I'm sure that many other applicants have been in the exact same situation. Did they all get in? No. Some did...the one's who did things right the first time regardless of situation or those who went on to show their stuff in advanced level coursework.

Not everyone with a sob story messes up or repeats classes that they failed (maybe they go on to ace their last 60 credits or something similar). And not everyone with a sob story gets to go to medical school.

How much work are you willing to do? How much are you willing to sacrifice? That's what separates those who get in vs. those who don't.

Again, people have done far more with way less. There are enough applicants to choose from...the problem is you are going on this rant about how there are special snowflakes who deserve this or that...life is harsh my friend.
 
Nietzsche's Barber said:
Ok so now think about this...

If you look at my short post history, I spilled the beans that I grew up dirt poor and in foster care. I'm sure that many other applicants have been in the exact same situation. Did they all get in? No. Some did...the one's who did things right the first time regardless of situation or those who went on to show their stuff in advanced level coursework.

Not everyone with a sob story messes up or repeats classes that they failed (maybe they go on to ace their last 60 credits or something similar). And not everyone with a sob story gets to go to medical school.

How much work are you willing to do? How much are you willing to sacrifice? That's what separates those who get in vs. those who don't.

Again, people have done far more with way less. There are enough applicants to choose from...
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A SOB story getting in is an outlier.. No offense
Lol
I like to cite the story of Dr.Q, but he is a big outlier.

The average pre med is from an upper class background
 
Dr.Sticks said:
A SOB story getting in is an outlier.. No offense
Lol
I like to cite the story of Dr.Q, but he is a big outlier.

The average pre med is from an upper class background
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Ok...so the average pre-med is from an upper-class background. Meaning that plenty of opportunity existed to succeed, correct? Are you agreeing with me now? I'm not sure what you are getting at...because a minute ago you were talking about what you called 'an outlier'.

And no offense taken. I was above every average at my current school
 
gonnif said:
I have to disagree. The sudden announcement of this, with a short implementation window (as in the next cycle) while AACOM had contractually committed to this in the end of 2014 or early 2015, as they formally explained in a followup email, is what is immoral. People have spent time, money, effort to fulfill the rules as they were told and then the rules change in the middle of the game with out a 2 or 3 lead time as AAMC did with the 2015 MCAT.
Click to expand...

I agree completely -- I don't disagree with the policy change; only with the implementation schedule. Many people have based several years worth of hard work and several thousands of dollars to retake classes to follow this particular admissions pathway. It is well within AACOM's rights to change their policies, but to change the rules suddenly and announce that they are effective immediately -- while they knew for years that they might -- well, it's just wrong.

If they were to delay implementing the policy change for a year, it would go a long way to restoring goodwill --
 
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