DO schools ranking

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lets get back to the top ranked schools

 

[COMedic2Doc]

Why did you put RVUCOM at the bottom, considering the board pass rates and the percentage that matched for their first year? Is it just because of the for-profit status? If so that seems pretty petty, especially considering the mud you were throwing at KYCOM in a different thread...

CODrummer, I feel your inquisition I really do. Are you applying this year? I agree with surfactant we need to get back to discussing the top tier schools.

 

[AntsMarching44]

What's wrong with the U.S. News and World Report rankings? 😉

 

[CODrummer]

CODrummer, I feel your inquisition I really do. Are you applying this year? I agree with surfactant we need to get back to discussing the top tier schools.

agreed. sorry to digress. back to the top schools.

 

[Soccer171983]

I can tell you right now that a list that doesn't include PCOM is most certainly incomplete. I also would not put LECOM or OUCOM on the list.

For the hell of it, I would say (in order) MSU, PCOM, ATSU/CCOM, UMDNJ/TCOM

Look at the stats.

 

[Hikkup]

where's the love for tourocom? (and all the other touros for that matter)

mid-tier? or is it still too early?

 

[yankeefan18]

Easily the best post on this thread. Happy Gilmore quote + good advice = winning

I've said this in many threads like this: Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a s***?

Rankings are for people who are insecure and want to justify where they go as being great. Go wherever you get in. If multiple places, go wherever you like.

 

[necronomicon]

Are we comparing schools by the sheer quantity of graduates? Rotating facilities? Residencies that are somewhat linked to the school?

If by the former, than LECOM is top notch. If by the latter, MSU and PCOM are at the top. Really, is there even a point to ranking? So far, everyone in this thread has thrown out a different system, and someone else has quickly refuted it. Who cares? Go to the place that will make you happiest, work hard and you will do better come match time at RVU than some lazy douche that goes to PCOM and expects to ride the school's name.

 

[Druggernaut]

10) LECOM Senton Hill - Has more problems than imaginable

I'd be interested to hear what you think these are. I'd wager most are non-issues or things that applied more to the first class than the newer ones. There are problems, but by all accounts they get better every year.

But to get back on the topic of the best, I think it really depends on what you're looking for. From a traditional medical education standpoint, I'd probably say (in no particular order and off the top of my head) PCOM, TCOM, MSUCOM, KCUMB, and CCOM, with DMUCOM and OUCOM making up ground. Focusing on board scores or clinical years will boost others (LECOMs are good for boards, NSU seems to have strong rotations). If you consider cost, I'd never go to MSU or CCOM unless they were my only acceptances, despite good reputations, and I wouldn't do OUCOM because of the 5-year practice contract.

I don't know enough about the "low tier" schools to weigh in on those, but I didn't apply to any that talked about training "rural" physicians or those interested in practicing in a specific geographic region. It seemed unlikely they'd take me, and I don't think I'd be happy there.

 

[Wolverines83]

I'd be interested to hear what you think these are. I'd wager most are non-issues or things that applied more to the first class than the newer ones. There are problems, but by all accounts they get better every year.

But to get back on the topic of the best, I think it really depends on what you're looking for. From a traditional medical education standpoint, I'd probably say (in no particular order and off the top of my head) PCOM, TCOM, MSUCOM, KCUMB, and CCOM, with DMUCOM and OUCOM making up ground. Focusing on board scores or clinical years will boost others (LECOMs are good for boards, NSU seems to have strong rotations). If you consider cost, I'd never go to MSU or CCOM unless they were my only acceptances, despite good reputations, and I wouldn't do OUCOM because of the 5-year practice contract.

I don't know enough about the "low tier" schools to weigh in on those, but I didn't apply to any that talked about training "rural" physicians or those interested in practicing in a specific geographic region. It seemed unlikely they'd take me, and I don't think I'd be happy there.

With regards to LECOM-SH...I've been here for a year and am still trying to figure out what serenade is talking about. I think he/she made a comment a while back about how it "wasn't funded well." With all due respect to serenade I think he/she is spreading some very anecdotal and third hand information. All the more reason to independently confirm anything anyone says about anything.

What I do think people are referring to is the first class...I think they had it rough but they aren't here to talk to us about it because they're on rotations so...I still can't verify that. I will say I thank God every day that I didn't choose the Erie campus, seriously, not because I think SH is better but because it seems our faculty is more personable. We don't have an overbearing faculty vs student vibe. The faculty is very professional but very helpful at the same time. They aren't perfect (who is?) but I gotta say, I'm extremely happy here. And talk about responsiveness...we give feedback on labs/courses/etc and our input is taken into account and improvements are implemented within a couple weeks...most recently within hours. So...hard to be upset about that.

People should just remember to consider SH separate from Erie. We share some faculty at most (they drive back and forth during anatomy). But other than that we're separate. I'll keep everyone posted on how rotations work out, because we interact with Erie in that department as well.

 

[scpod]

Not to say that isn't great, but it is by no means as impressive as many of the other DO schools that match the majority of their class to academic and well known ACGME spots.

There are NO DO schools that match the majority of their students to "well known ACGME spots". While I know no one will understand until they have gotten there, only a very very few DO's land those "awesome" spots that everyone dreams about. Most of the ACGME spots that DO students get are not considered very good programs by the top people in the field. None of the matchlists that you see are "impressive".

It will be a rude awakening when you realize that 50% of you will be in the bottom half of your medschool class after your first test... assuming you get in at all. You'll say that "It wont matter if I'm in the bottom half because I will rock all my rotations and STILL get that neurosurgery residency". But it won't happen. There are always two or three students in each class who go through this. They load up fourth year with ortho (or whatever) rotations just knowing that someone will take them despite grades, or boards or whatever. I just talked to one of the stuidents who rotated through our hospital and failed to match ortho this year. We all knew he wouldn't make it, but he was convinced. He's in a a rotating internship now, hosping he can get an EM spot now. that won't happen either, but he will keep trying.

All of this crap realy doesn't matter. Do you want to be a doctor? Or do you just want to be an elitist? Almost none of you will ever get a really, truly, "impressive" match that you are dreamimng of now. Most of you will end up in primary care anyway, because there will never be enough spots for everyone who dreams of ortho.

These matchlists are all in the eyes of the beholder anyway. The administration at the state medical school (MD) that rotates at my hospital think their match list for 2012 really sucks. Why? It's not because they didn't get a lot of god specialty spots. It's becuase they got too many! They WANT to provide primary care providers for our state and more than half of them are leaving the state and skipping primary care. They think it's awful.

The only people who realy sit there and concentrate on match lists are naive premeds. The sad thing is that they really don't even know what they are looking at. That might look like an impressive surgery match to a premed, but it's from a program thats considered crappy to the people that really know. I had absolutely NO idea what the real reputations for IM residencies were until I was interviewing. No one who isn't in the field really knows. Do you think a pathologist knows where the big OB/Gyn residencies are? No! Do you think a Gastroenterologist knows where the best surgery residencies are? No, the don't! If they don't know, then how does a premed look at a list, full of various specialty matches, and determine that it's a really good match. It isn't possible.

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

 

[Wolverines83]

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

End thread (oh, and yeah, verify everything anyone says about anything...especially serenade)

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

With regards to LECOM-SH...I've been here for a year and am still trying to figure out what serenade is talking about. I think he/she made a comment a while back about how it "wasn't funded well." With all due respect to serenade I think he/she is spreading some very anecdotal and third hand information. All the more reason to independently confirm anything anyone says about anything.

What I do think people are referring to is the first class...I think they had it rough but they aren't here to talk to us about it because they're on rotations so...I still can't verify that. I will say I thank God every day that I didn't choose the Erie campus, seriously, not because I think SH is better but because it seems our faculty is more personable. We don't have an overbearing faculty vs student vibe. The faculty is very professional but very helpful at the same time. They aren't perfect (who is?) but I gotta say, I'm extremely happy here. And talk about responsiveness...we give feedback on labs/courses/etc and our input is taken into account and improvements are implemented within a couple weeks...most recently within hours. So...hard to be upset about that.

People should just remember to consider SH separate from Erie. We share some faculty at most (they drive back and forth during anatomy). But other than that we're separate. I'll keep everyone posted on how rotations work out, because we interact with Erie in that department as well.

You don't have an anatomy lab for starters, and honestly plenty of Senton Hill students continuously talk about organization issues and other things. Furthermore this was a personal ranking based on multiple things mostly anecdotal, and I genuinely don't care because I would never attend or apply to any of the Lecom's except B as it is warm and not in the middle of coal country.

 

[Iliketoytles]

There are NO DO schools that match the majority of their students to "well known ACGME spots". While I know no one will understand until they have gotten there, only a very very few DO's land those "awesome" spots that everyone dreams about. Most of the ACGME spots that DO students get are not considered very good programs by the top people in the field. None of the matchlists that you see are "impressive".

It will be a rude awakening when you realize that 50% of you will be in the bottom half of your medschool class after your first test... assuming you get in at all. You'll say that "It wont matter if I'm in the bottom half because I will rock all my rotations and STILL get that neurosurgery residency". But it won't happen. There are always two or three students in each class who go through this. They load up fourth year with ortho (or whatever) rotations just knowing that someone will take them despite grades, or boards or whatever. I just talked to one of the stuidents who rotated through our hospital and failed to match ortho this year. We all knew he wouldn't make it, but he was convinced. He's in a a rotating internship now, hosping he can get an EM spot now. that won't happen either, but he will keep trying.

All of this crap realy doesn't matter. Do you want to be a doctor? Or do you just want to be an elitist? Almost none of you will ever get a really, truly, "impressive" match that you are dreamimng of now. Most of you will end up in primary care anyway, because there will never be enough spots for everyone who dreams of ortho.

These matchlists are all in the eyes of the beholder anyway. The administration at the state medical school (MD) that rotates at my hospital think their match list for 2012 really sucks. Why? It's not because they didn't get a lot of god specialty spots. It's becuase they got too many! They WANT to provide primary care providers for our state and more than half of them are leaving the state and skipping primary care. They think it's awful.

The only people who realy sit there and concentrate on match lists are naive premeds. The sad thing is that they really don't even know what they are looking at. That might look like an impressive surgery match to a premed, but it's from a program thats considered crappy to the people that really know. I had absolutely NO idea what the real reputations for IM residencies were until I was interviewing. No one who isn't in the field really knows. Do you think a pathologist knows where the big OB/Gyn residencies are? No! Do you think a Gastroenterologist knows where the best surgery residencies are? No, the don't! If they don't know, then how does a premed look at a list, full of various specialty matches, and determine that it's a really good match. It isn't possible.

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

Very nice post. I have a [dumb] question about the bolded above. I looked at the osteopathic opportunities website where it shows the different residencies for each specialty, how many spots there are, how many are filled, etc. There are many places that seem to not fill up all their spots. Is there a particular reason for this, other than not enough qualified applicants applied for it?

 

[Wolverines83]

You don't have an anatomy lab for starters, and honestly plenty of Senton Hill students continuously talk about organization issues and other things. Furthermore this was a personal ranking based on multiple things mostly anecdotal, and I genuinely don't care because I would never attend or apply to any of the Lecom's except B as it is warm and not in the middle of coal country.

See I thought the SeNton Hill thing was a typo, but you did it again. Another sign of a lack of actual information. Plenty of students talk about organization issues and "other things." Lol, for real? Aren't you a junior in college? In Maryland? How many Seton Hill students have you spoken to?

Your credibility is going down in flames my friend...

 

[Druggernaut]

You don't have an anatomy lab for starters, and honestly plenty of Senton Hill students continuously talk about organization issues and other things.

The first years at Seton Hill apparently did considerably better than those at Erie this year on the anatomy shelf. People talk about the lack of an anatomy lab, but I think it's more of a right of passage thing than an actual hinderance to learning. I'd be on board with prosections, but picking through fat for hours and hours per day just doesn't sound like a good use of time.

I don't even know what your second comment means. But this isn't a LECOM thread, so I'll let it go if you don't feel like expanding upon it.

 

[AntsMarching44]

You don't have an anatomy lab for starters, and honestly plenty of Senton Hill students continuously talk about organization issues and other things. Furthermore this was a personal ranking based on multiple things mostly anecdotal, and I genuinely don't care because I would never attend or apply to any of the Lecom's except B as it is warm and not in the middle of coal country.

Haha! I really hope you end up with a nice MCAT score because the way you trash some of these schools may prove ironic unless you get accepted to a top tier program. In a few years when you're a MS-1 at Ukraine's First School of Medicine and Pig Farming you'll have one hell of a time scurrying back thru SDN deleting all your posts

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Haha! I really hope you end up with a nice MCAT score because the way you trash some of these schools may prove ironic unless you get accepted to a top tier program. In a few years when you're a MS-1 at Ukraine's First School of Medicine and Pig Farming you'll have one hell of a time scurrying back thru SDN deleting all your posts

Lol, and I bet you thought this was funny....

 

[AntsMarching44]

Lol, and I bet you thought this was funny....

Yeah, kinda...

 

[Druggernaut]

In a few years when you're a MS-1 at Ukraine's First School of Medicine and Pig Farming you'll have one hell of a time scurrying back thru SDN deleting all your posts

On the bright side, he'd never miss a diagnosis of cysticercosis.

 

[TallScrubs]

There are NO DO schools that match the majority of their students to "well known ACGME spots". While I know no one will understand until they have gotten there, only a very very few DO's land those "awesome" spots that everyone dreams about. Most of the ACGME spots that DO students get are not considered very good programs by the top people in the field. None of the matchlists that you see are "impressive".

It will be a rude awakening when you realize that 50% of you will be in the bottom half of your medschool class after your first test... assuming you get in at all. You'll say that "It wont matter if I'm in the bottom half because I will rock all my rotations and STILL get that neurosurgery residency". But it won't happen. There are always two or three students in each class who go through this. They load up fourth year with ortho (or whatever) rotations just knowing that someone will take them despite grades, or boards or whatever. I just talked to one of the stuidents who rotated through our hospital and failed to match ortho this year. We all knew he wouldn't make it, but he was convinced. He's in a a rotating internship now, hosping he can get an EM spot now. that won't happen either, but he will keep trying.

All of this crap realy doesn't matter. Do you want to be a doctor? Or do you just want to be an elitist? Almost none of you will ever get a really, truly, "impressive" match that you are dreamimng of now. Most of you will end up in primary care anyway, because there will never be enough spots for everyone who dreams of ortho.

These matchlists are all in the eyes of the beholder anyway. The administration at the state medical school (MD) that rotates at my hospital think their match list for 2012 really sucks. Why? It's not because they didn't get a lot of god specialty spots. It's becuase they got too many! They WANT to provide primary care providers for our state and more than half of them are leaving the state and skipping primary care. They think it's awful.

The only people who realy sit there and concentrate on match lists are naive premeds. The sad thing is that they really don't even know what they are looking at. That might look like an impressive surgery match to a premed, but it's from a program thats considered crappy to the people that really know. I had absolutely NO idea what the real reputations for IM residencies were until I was interviewing. No one who isn't in the field really knows. Do you think a pathologist knows where the big OB/Gyn residencies are? No! Do you think a Gastroenterologist knows where the best surgery residencies are? No, the don't! If they don't know, then how does a premed look at a list, full of various specialty matches, and determine that it's a really good match. It isn't possible.

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

Thank god that you wrote this. Everyone here should listen to this (wo)man--for the most part, a lot of it is up to you. My school has had some people match some great residencies, but for every 'great' match there are 8 mediocre and 7 crappy matches. It's like that at quite a few schools, osteo or allo.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

See I thought the SeNton Hill thing was a typo, but you did it again. Another sign of a lack of actual information. Plenty of students talk about organization issues and "other things." Lol, for real? Aren't you a junior in college? In Maryland? How many Seton Hill students have you spoken to?

Your credibility is going down in flames my friend...

Your free to have your own opinion. I gave my opinion and ranking, you're free to give your own ranking of schools.

 

[AntsMarching44]

On the bright side, he'd never miss a diagnosis of cysticercosis.

Ha! Yes, the dual MD/Pig Farming degree is largely underrated

 

[DocEspana]

Msucom, oucom, tcom, umdnj, LECOM

yes, yes, yes, yes,

You're kidding me with that last one, right? LECOM isn't terrible, but it doesnt belong anywhere near the same conversation as the other four. I'd probably put another 8 or 10 shcools between UMDNJ and LECOM. It's mid-level. No shame in that.

 

[AntsMarching44]

yes, yes, yes, yes,

You're kidding me with that last one, right? LECOM isn't terrible, but it doesnt belong anywhere near the same conversation as the other four. I'd probably put another 8 or 10 shcools between UMDNJ and LECOM. It's mid-level. No shame in that.

Awesome! I was just thinking how I don't see enough of James Van Der Beek anymore...

 

[Wolverines83]

Thank god that you wrote this. Everyone here should listen to this (wo)man--for the most part, a lot of it is up to you. My school has had some people match some great residencies, but for every 'great' match there are 8 mediocre and 7 crappy matches. It's like that at quite a few schools, osteo or allo.

Yeah I totally agree. I sort of feel like "the best DO school" is a bit of an oxymoron. Not that they aren't good but if you're that concerned about reputation or prestige, I'm not sure DO is really the right route for you. Plus, so much is up for debate as someone said. Board scores? Certain schools. Reputation? Certain schools. Rotations? Certain schools.

Find a school you'll be comfortable at and where you will thus excel (or at least succeed). Kill those boards, do well on rotations and be on your way. Med school is all about effort.

PS: Doc I know you've got no love for LECOM but damn, you pulled THAT guy out? That's harsh...I actually know his cousin....douche

 

[DocEspana]

Don't confuse a modest assessment (its midlevel. Right around or just above my own school) with a lack of love. I won't say I've ever done the school any favors, but I generally tell people not to bash on it either. It's just nowhere near being a top 5 school unless your specifically heavily valuing cost of attendance.

And i think we all know I can't resist a good gif.

 

[Pocketflan]

Basically you are about correct. There are about 8 schools that rotate within the top 5 depending on who you talk to, but those 8-10 are virtually unanimous throughout the board. Then there are another 5 that are, "go there if accepted nowhere else." Everything that isn't on one of these two lists are middle tier and all about equal.

Care to list these please?

 

[HalfListic]

1. Im pretty sure there was a thread like this a few months ago where myself and other residents/upper level students posted some lists

2. Do ranking lists are really really really really stupid

3. A do ranking list made by a pre-med are even more stupid than number #2.

+1

 

[MedPR]

Whichever school I attend = the best school.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Whichever school I attend = the best school.

Just opened this thread to post the exact same comment. Beat me to it.

 

[DrMaximus]

Care to list these please?

I remember wanting to know this... It's amazing how much actually being in school makes you not care about it. At all.

And I don't say this to be cocky or anything, I'm basically agreeing with the above. Wherever you will get in will be awesome to you because they like you. I'm sure you all will know this feeling soon enough. 😀

 

[HalfListic]

I remember wanting to know this... It's amazing how much actually being in school makes you not care about it. At all.

I imagine this is so full of truth it can barely walk

 

[MedPR]

i imagine this is so full of truth it can barely walk

+1.

 

[cliquesh]

There are NO DO schools that match the majority of their students to "well known ACGME spots". While I know no one will understand until they have gotten there, only a very very few DO's land those "awesome" spots that everyone dreams about. Most of the ACGME spots that DO students get are not considered very good programs by the top people in the field. None of the matchlists that you see are "impressive".

It will be a rude awakening when you realize that 50% of you will be in the bottom half of your medschool class after your first test... assuming you get in at all. You'll say that "It wont matter if I'm in the bottom half because I will rock all my rotations and STILL get that neurosurgery residency". But it won't happen. There are always two or three students in each class who go through this. They load up fourth year with ortho (or whatever) rotations just knowing that someone will take them despite grades, or boards or whatever. I just talked to one of the stuidents who rotated through our hospital and failed to match ortho this year. We all knew he wouldn't make it, but he was convinced. He's in a a rotating internship now, hosping he can get an EM spot now. that won't happen either, but he will keep trying.

All of this crap realy doesn't matter. Do you want to be a doctor? Or do you just want to be an elitist? Almost none of you will ever get a really, truly, "impressive" match that you are dreamimng of now. Most of you will end up in primary care anyway, because there will never be enough spots for everyone who dreams of ortho.

These matchlists are all in the eyes of the beholder anyway. The administration at the state medical school (MD) that rotates at my hospital think their match list for 2012 really sucks. Why? It's not because they didn't get a lot of god specialty spots. It's becuase they got too many! They WANT to provide primary care providers for our state and more than half of them are leaving the state and skipping primary care. They think it's awful.

The only people who realy sit there and concentrate on match lists are naive premeds. The sad thing is that they really don't even know what they are looking at. That might look like an impressive surgery match to a premed, but it's from a program thats considered crappy to the people that really know. I had absolutely NO idea what the real reputations for IM residencies were until I was interviewing. No one who isn't in the field really knows. Do you think a pathologist knows where the big OB/Gyn residencies are? No! Do you think a Gastroenterologist knows where the best surgery residencies are? No, the don't! If they don't know, then how does a premed look at a list, full of various specialty matches, and determine that it's a really good match. It isn't possible.

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

This is an unnecessary bump, but I thought it was a good post.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Where does NYCOM stand in all this?

 

[GOMERE]

Here's an objective rating system. Take a look and add and modify until we can all agree. Then use the system.
Rating System:

Has its own hospital associated with the school: +20
Has it's own clinic associated with the school: +10
Has it's own residency program within the school: +20
Has enough rotations within a 50 mile radius for all students: +20

Average matriculating GPA 2.5 to 3.0 = 0
Average matriculating GPA 3.0 to 3.5 = +5
Average MCAT 20-25 = 0
Average MCAT 25-30 = +5

% of student matching top choice > 70% = +30; >50% = +15
% of student matching top 3 choices >90% = +20; >70% =+7
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >85% = +10.
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >90% = +20. >95% = +40

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Here's an objective rating system. Take a look and add and modify until we can all agree. Then use the system.
Rating System:

Has its own hospital associated with the school: +20
Has it's own clinic associated with the school: +10
Has it's own residency program within the school: +20
Has enough rotations within a 50 mile radius for all students: +20

Average matriculating GPA 2.5 to 3.0 = 0
Average matriculating GPA 3.0 to 3.5 = +5
Average MCAT 20-25 = 0
Average MCAT 25-30 = +5

% of student matching top choice > 70% = +30; >50% = +15
% of student matching top 3 choices >90% = +20; >70% =+7
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >85% = +10.
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >90% = +20. >95% = +40

A bit too generous in my opinion for the COMLEX pass rates and GPA. I'd say an average gpa of 3.0-3.4 = 0, 3.5-4.0 = +5. Also COMLEX pass rate of a 85% or lower should be an negative -10 85-90 a 0, >90 a +20.

Maybe also consider adding a retention rate?
95-100% of class graduating : + 20, 92-94.99 % = +10 , 91.99-90 % = 0% and below 90-80% being -10% and under 80% ( Doesn't occur usually) being at -20 or -30.

 

[MedPR]

Here's an objective rating system. Take a look and add and modify until we can all agree. Then use the system.
Rating System:

Has its own hospital associated with the school: +20
Has it's own clinic associated with the school: +10
Has it's own residency program within the school: +20
Has enough rotations within a 50 mile radius for all students: +20

Average matriculating GPA 2.5 to 3.0 = 0
Average matriculating GPA 3.0 to 3.5 = +5
Average MCAT 20-25 = 0
Average MCAT 25-30 = +5

% of student matching top choice > 70% = +30; >50% = +15
% of student matching top 3 choices >90% = +20; >70% =+7
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >85% = +10.
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >90% = +20. >95% = +40

A bit too generous in my opinion for the COMLEX pass rates and GPA. I'd say an average gpa of 3.0-3.4 = 0, 3.5-4.0 = +5. Also COMLEX pass rate of a 85% or lower should be an negative -10 85-90 a 0, >90 a +20.

Maybe also consider adding a retention rate?
95-100% of class graduating : + 20, 92-94.99 % = +10 , 91.99-90 % = 0% and below 90-80% being -10% and under 80% ( Doesn't occur usually) being at -20 or -30.

Agreed. Too broad with the MCAT ranges too. -1 for each point below 25. 0 for 25.00-25.99. +1 point for each point above 26.

 

[GOMERE]

Agreed. Too broad with the MCAT ranges too. -1 for each point below 25. 0 for 25.00-25.99. +1 point for each point above 26.

And thinking about it again:
For each residency specialty in primary care: +10
i.e. IM = +10, FM = +10, etc

For each residency specialty in more "prestigious" specialty:
i.e. Ortho = +20, Derm = +20

Fellowships:+10 for each one

If no other DO or MD school within:
25 miles = +10
50 miles = +20
100 miles = +30
>100 miles = +35

 

[MedPR]

And thinking about it again:
For each residency specialty in primary care: +10
i.e. IM = +10, FM = +10, etc

For each residency specialty in more "prestigious" specialty:
i.e. Ortho = +20, Derm = +20

Fellowships:+10 for each one

If no other DO or MD school within:
25 miles = +10
50 miles = +20
100 miles = +30
>100 miles = +35

Not that I disagree, but why points for being X miles away from another school? I know it's n=1, but I think CCOM's vicinity to the Chicago MD schools and rotation sites is one of the reasons it is a top DO school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think doing that might dilute things too much. I mean residency programs might be a good thing to include but at +20 they trump over all other factors.
We need to adjust the numbers so we can grade schools based on multiple merit.

 

[HockeyDr09]

The first years at Seton Hill apparently did considerably better than those at Erie this year on the anatomy shelf. People talk about the lack of an anatomy lab, but I think it's more of a right of passage thing than an actual hinderance to learning. I'd be on board with prosections, but picking through fat for hours and hours per day just doesn't sound like a good use of time.

I don't even know what your second comment means. But this isn't a LECOM thread, so I'll let it go if you don't feel like expanding upon it.

I'm actually a big fan of the Seton Hill kids and see us as one school. But the administration was disappointed with your anatomy grades. There were 0 failures in Erie with roughly 260 students and ~9 failures in Seton Hill with ~100 students. I think Seton Hill has some issues to work our curriculum-wise, but so does every new school.

I to this day will never understand the hate for LECOM (either Erie or Seton Hill). I've already advocated as much as I could for us. One thing that LECOM has been doing that has been huge (and has gone under the radar) is building residency programs. Since we've been open they have already opened 700 residency seats.

The bodies in Erie are mostly prosected. You're not digging through fat for hours and hours. A large majority of the fat is removed by a second year student (which they pay us for, albeit not well enough) in June before the lab starts in July/August.

 

[Jnet389]

There are NO DO schools that match the majority of their students to "well known ACGME spots". While I know no one will understand until they have gotten there, only a very very few DO's land those "awesome" spots that everyone dreams about. Most of the ACGME spots that DO students get are not considered very good programs by the top people in the field. None of the matchlists that you see are "impressive".

It will be a rude awakening when you realize that 50% of you will be in the bottom half of your medschool class after your first test... assuming you get in at all. You'll say that "It wont matter if I'm in the bottom half because I will rock all my rotations and STILL get that neurosurgery residency". But it won't happen. There are always two or three students in each class who go through this. They load up fourth year with ortho (or whatever) rotations just knowing that someone will take them despite grades, or boards or whatever. I just talked to one of the stuidents who rotated through our hospital and failed to match ortho this year. We all knew he wouldn't make it, but he was convinced. He's in a a rotating internship now, hosping he can get an EM spot now. that won't happen either, but he will keep trying.

All of this crap realy doesn't matter. Do you want to be a doctor? Or do you just want to be an elitist? Almost none of you will ever get a really, truly, "impressive" match that you are dreamimng of now. Most of you will end up in primary care anyway, because there will never be enough spots for everyone who dreams of ortho.

These matchlists are all in the eyes of the beholder anyway. The administration at the state medical school (MD) that rotates at my hospital think their match list for 2012 really sucks. Why? It's not because they didn't get a lot of god specialty spots. It's becuase they got too many! They WANT to provide primary care providers for our state and more than half of them are leaving the state and skipping primary care. They think it's awful.

The only people who realy sit there and concentrate on match lists are naive premeds. The sad thing is that they really don't even know what they are looking at. That might look like an impressive surgery match to a premed, but it's from a program thats considered crappy to the people that really know. I had absolutely NO idea what the real reputations for IM residencies were until I was interviewing. No one who isn't in the field really knows. Do you think a pathologist knows where the big OB/Gyn residencies are? No! Do you think a Gastroenterologist knows where the best surgery residencies are? No, the don't! If they don't know, then how does a premed look at a list, full of various specialty matches, and determine that it's a really good match. It isn't possible.

Why not concentrate on getting into a med school and becoming the best doctor you can be. When its time to decide your future do a lot of research and do your best. It really doesn't matter what school you go to. The top people in every school have a chance to go to some "impressive" places. Everyone else still becomes a doctor.A better idea is finding a place where you fit in and get along with everyone else. Residency is long and hard enough. Find a place you like and do your best. thats all that matters.

Omg this...

 

[qwerty2012]

I think most of state-funded schools who have big alumni networks and rotation spots tend to be well off than some of recent private ones.
But lets be realistic,most students who are considering DO like myself probably messed up somewhere and know this is one of few chance of becoming a physician.Would you go to a one of best ranked DO school instead of a MD..? probably not. I feel ranking should just be based on a "personal" sort of thing like location preference and so on.

 

[QualityProcess]

Loving this thread

 

[GOMERE]

Seems to me that without even doing the math, the best DO school would have to be Michigan State University.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Here's an objective rating system. Take a look and add and modify until we can all agree. Then use the system.
Rating System:

Has its own hospital associated with the school: +20
Has it's own clinic associated with the school: +10
Has it's own residency program within the school: +20
Has enough rotations within a 50 mile radius for all students: +20

Average matriculating GPA 2.5 to 3.0 = 0
Average matriculating GPA 3.0 to 3.5 = +5
Average MCAT 20-25 = 0
Average MCAT 25-30 = +5

% of student matching top choice > 70% = +30; >50% = +15
% of student matching top 3 choices >90% = +20; >70% =+7
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >85% = +10.
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >90% = +20. >95% = +40

First, this thread is stupid and ridic. Second, I love this thread. Third, I don't think we should be shooting to PASS the COMLEX. So why look at pass rates? We should be looking at mean scores. Fourth, I don't think we should look at undergrad performance. We should care that schools accept people who will be good doctors and turn them into great doctors. Sometimes that means accepting someone who worked all the time and got a lower GPA, or the health care professional who took undergrad classes 10 years ago. This drags down the mean GPA and MCAT, but IMO it adds something of greater value. But yeah, I know GPA and MCAT will always equal "prestige" in the eyes of premeds. I completely agree with the first four factors you listed.

Of course, I go to LECOM-B, so I'm biased about the board scores 😀

 

[JaBoomDay]

First, this thread is stupid and ridic. Second, I love this thread. Third, I don't think we should be shooting to PASS the COMLEX. So why look at pass rates? We should be looking at mean scores. Fourth, I don't think we should look at undergrad performance. We should care that schools accept people who will be good doctors and turn them into great doctors. Sometimes that means accepting someone who worked all the time and got a lower GPA, or the health care professional who took undergrad classes 10 years ago. This drags down the mean GPA and MCAT, but IMO it adds something of greater value. But yeah, I know GPA and MCAT will always equal "prestige" in the eyes of premeds. I completely agree with the first four factors you listed.

Of course, I go to LECOM-B, so I'm biased about the board scores 😀

👍 I love you. 🙂

At the risk of sounding adversarial, I find the premise on which this thread is based to be incorrect. Our success in most things in life depends on our being in environments that are compatible with our individual goals and needs. Most of us won't be able to appreciate whether a school environment is a good fit until we've toured the school and interviewed with the faculty and students. If we are lucky enough to attend a school that meets our individual needs we will thrive. Basing decisions on statistics will potentially obscure other meaningful factors.

And I love you too. 😀

 

[THH]

Here's an objective rating system. Take a look and add and modify until we can all agree. Then use the system.
Rating System:

Has its own hospital associated with the school: +20
Has it's own clinic associated with the school: +10
Has it's own residency program within the school: +20
Has enough rotations within a 50 mile radius for all students: +20

Average matriculating GPA 2.5 to 3.0 = 0
Average matriculating GPA 3.0 to 3.5 = +5
Average MCAT 20-25 = 0
Average MCAT 25-30 = +5

% of student matching top choice > 70% = +30; >50% = +15
% of student matching top 3 choices >90% = +20; >70% =+7
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >85% = +10.
1st time Comlex Pass Rate >90% = +20. >95% = +40

A while back I looked into trying to set up some sort of semi-objective system for "ranking" the schools, but when I started digging, I had a hard time coming up with some of the raw data needed to fill this in. Data on mean COMLEX scores is very difficult to dig up. I think it would be worth throwing amount of research grant money into the equation as well as student to full time faculty ratio. Both of those stats are available on the AOA site.

The other method is to take the U.S. News approach and base it on the peer assessments (from other DO school deans) and program directors of AOA residencies. U.S. News asks each director and dean to rank each school on a scale of 1-5 or "Don't know" if they don't feel they can accurately assess. The problem with that method is at the end of the day it is still very subjective.

Ultimately, WDeagle is right, DO ranking lists are a bit silly, so this would be more of a "for fun" project than anything else.