DO schools ranking

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allenlchs said:
We can't rank them by the ability of students to get into a certain specialty. You could comprise a ranking of schools on your list with percentage of their graduates that go into primary care.

It doesn't matter what medical schools think of EM, what matters is whether you will want to include it into your hypothetical ranking.
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It's also kind of dumb to rank based on specialty when the mission of most schools is to create primary care physicians.
 
taco152 said:
If its their goal to create primary care physicians, whether they consider EM primary or not could influence how many people they're able to put into EM residencies.
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EM typically is not considered primary...
 
I didn't read all 4 pages of the thread, so please excuse my ignorance.

The most important thing you can do, regardless of school, is smoke the COMLEX Level 1. I am fairly certain that every single school, for profit or not, gives you the tools to do this. How you choose to use these tools is up to you. No AOA residency is going to poo poo you if you score a 725 and came from Podunk U of Osteopathic Med. Getting caught up in unofficial rankings is ultimately, irrelevant.
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
I didn't read all 4 pages of the thread, so please excuse my ignorance.

The most important thing you can do, regardless of school, is smoke the COMLEX Level 1. I am fairly certain that every single school, for profit or not, gives you the tools to do this. How you choose to use these tools is up to you. No AOA residency is going to poo poo you if you score a 725 and came from Podunk U of Osteopathic Med. Getting caught up in unofficial rankings is ultimately, irrelevant.
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You can say LUCOM without fear.
 
Mad Jack said:
Mad Jack's News and World Report

Official Osteopathic Medical School Rankings 2014

1- The School You Got Into

2 (tie)- Every School You Didn't Get Into

3- LUCOM
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What if someone only applied to LUCOM and got in there?

Sent from my SGH-T889V using Tapatalk
 
necronomicon said:
I can tell you right now that a list that doesn't include PCOM is most certainly incomplete. I also would not put LECOM or OUCOM on the list.

For the hell of it, I would say (in order) MSU, PCOM, ATSU/CCOM, UMDNJ/TCOM
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PCOM is Pomona, right? So many acronyms!
 
just saw the question's been answered already. my browser didn't show the new replies.
 
Does anyone know much about Pikeville or Rocky Vista? Getting overwhelmed with where and HOW to even start comparing all of these schools...
 
NettleHead said:
Does anyone know much about Pikeville or Rocky Vista? Getting overwhelmed with where and HOW to even start comparing all of these schools...
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Rocka vista has some people skeptical because they are "for profit." And if I remember correctly a couple people said they had some trouble on their rotations or something. However, if I recall correctly, they have busted out a couple years of seriously impressive match lists for their students, so that one takes some looking in to.

KYCOM (pikeville), its a religiously affiliated school that is essentially in the middle of nowhere. For both those reasons it attracts less people and thus has lower scores to get in. But all in all I have heard nothing bad about it. As far as I know they produce decent enough match lists to keep their doors open. They also have a very solid crew of racquetball players if that is your thing haha. I hear you can play your professors and such - just a small btw.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Rocka vista has some people skeptical because they are "for profit." And if I remember correctly a couple people said they had some trouble on their rotations or something. However, if I recall correctly, they have busted out a couple years of seriously impressive match lists for their students, so that one takes some looking in to.
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I have a friend who just started residency in IM from RVU - this person loved it there and received a quality education, don't think the for-profit status really affected his education or the awesome match list of his class.
 
Your first step is to just figure out east coast vs. midwest vs westcoast vs some combination between all of those. This is important because not only will you do better where you are happier, but the schools will tend to show locals (regionally) more love. So for instance if you are applying to VCOM or CUSOM, you will have an easier time getting in if you can say, hey I grew up in Appalachia and I want to settle down here vs. some random dude from Hawaii who doesnt know how to spell Appalachia. This is not 100% the case 100% of the time, but generally speaking it is true. Also it can help slightly for getting into residencies around the region that you went to school. Again this is not 100% true all of the time, but generally speaking, you can get audition rotations and get a foot in the door if you went to school close by (at least its easier if you are close by). So first thing is just where do you want to live?

Then you screen for urban vs rural, this is easy enough. Its important to look at the entire region though, because some schools that seem super rural actually are pretty nice - VCOM-CC comes to mind. Its in a pretty fast growing place. Same with CUSOM, this school is in one of the fastest growing areas in America and is in the center of the "research triangle." But on paper this place seems pretty rural.

Then after that you kick out schools based upon in-state bias and/or cost. So for instance lets say you want to settle down in the mid west. Lets say you are an Iowa resident. Oklahoma and TCOM are both midwest schools but they have massive (roughly 90%) in-state bias. So your chance of getting in out of state is slim unless you have some major connection with the state or have stellar scores. Other schools such as MSU indirectly screen out of state applicants by charging a ridiculous amount for tuition. CCOM, while not doing any sort of in-state vs out of state thing, just charges a ton regardless of where you come from.

Then you screen for other things that are just goofy. So LECOM for instance, people either love it or hate it. They are ridiculously cheap, but some people dont like the idea of paying tuition to basically teach yourself stuff. Others really like the PBL thing at LECOM. Some people really want other things such as religious affiliation, so they will apply to somewhere like LUCOM. Others hate that idea so will not apply there.

Thats about how you go about it. Message me if you want any more help.
 
GreyF0X said:
I have a friend who just started residency in IM from RVU - this person loved it there and received a quality education, don't think the for-profit status really affected his education or the awesome match list of his class.
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Yea... its like when it opened a lot of people got all disgruntled but I have not heard much bad stuff about it. I would be applying there if it was on the east coast. It seems good enough to me. Again their match lists speak for itself. Either they really just have some good connections or the students just kill it there, either way, it definitely only helps the name.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
Since there's no "formal" ranking of osteopathic schools, can you guys provide me with a list based on the general consensus. From religiously reading this forum during the past four years, I have learned that schools such as DMU, CCOM, Kcumb, PCOM, and UMDNJ are considered "top-tier" schools, while WVSOM, RVU, and Pikesville are examples of the "low-tier" ones.

However, which school is considered THE best, the second best...etc?
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MSUCOM very well respected in DO community
 
1) MSUCOM, PCOM, CCOM, Western-CA, some other established schools perhaps (i.e. UNECOM)
2) KCUMB, NSUCOM, etc.
3) Jiminy Cricket College of Osteopathic Medicine
4) Burger King Night Shift Manager
5) LUCOM
 
This is just getting sad. All do schools are bottom tier. You are still a doctor. Who cares!































(Just don't expect to land competitive acgme specialities)
 
Thank
Awesome Sauceome said:
Your first step is to just figure out east coast vs. midwest vs westcoast vs some combination between all of those. This is important because not only will you do better where you are happier, but the schools will tend to show locals (regionally) more love. So for instance if you are applying to VCOM or CUSOM, you will have an easier time getting in if you can say, hey I grew up in Appalachia and I want to settle down here vs. some random dude from Hawaii who doesnt know how to spell Appalachia. This is not 100% the case 100% of the time, but generally speaking it is true. Also it can help slightly for getting into residencies around the region that you went to school. Again this is not 100% true all of the time, but generally speaking, you can get audition rotations and get a foot in the door if you went to school close by (at least its easier if you are close by). So first thing is just where do you want to live?

Then you screen for urban vs rural, this is easy enough. Its important to look at the entire region though, because some schools that seem super rural actually are pretty nice - VCOM-CC comes to mind. Its in a pretty fast growing place. Same with CUSOM, this school is in one of the fastest growing areas in America and is in the center of the "research triangle." But on paper this place seems pretty rural.

Then after that you kick out schools based upon in-state bias and/or cost. So for instance lets say you want to settle down in the mid west. Lets say you are an Iowa resident. Oklahoma and TCOM are both midwest schools but they have massive (roughly 90%) in-state bias. So your chance of getting in out of state is slim unless you have some major connection with the state or have stellar scores. Other schools such as MSU indirectly screen out of state applicants by charging a ridiculous amount for tuition. CCOM, while not doing any sort of in-state vs out of state thing, just charges a ton regardless of where you come from.

Then you screen for other things that are just goofy. So LECOM for instance, people either love it or hate it. They are ridiculously cheap, but some people dont like the idea of paying tuition to basically teach yourself stuff. Others really like the PBL thing at LECOM. Some people really want other things such as religious affiliation, so they will apply to somewhere like LUCOM. Others hate that idea so will not apply there.

Thats about how you go about it. Message me if you want any more help.
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Thank you so much for your time! This is super helpful...
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
I didn't read all 4 pages of the thread, so please excuse my ignorance.

The most important thing you can do, regardless of school, is smoke the COMLEX Level 1. I am fairly certain that every single school, for profit or not, gives you the tools to do this. How you choose to use these tools is up to you. No AOA residency is going to poo poo you if you score a 725 and came from Podunk U of Osteopathic Med. Getting caught up in unofficial rankings is ultimately, irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Well said. The learning is up to you. You're just paying 45k/yr for a school to verify through testing that you've learned you were supposed to. If you're a crappy student, even the best school (whatever that means) isn't going to change that. If you're a superior student, no school is going to change that (except those of us completely jaded and demoralized).
 
Xenoblade said:
This is just getting sad. All do schools are bottom tier. You are still a doctor. Who cares!






(Just don't expect to land competitive acgme specialities)
Click to expand...
Then why are you here interacting with us lowly DOs?


And as much as anyone may disagree with the idea of ranking DO schools, the fact that most people would take an acceptance to PCOM, KCOM, or MSUCOM as opposed to PNWU, KYCOM, or LUCOM shows that there is some difference in these schools that should be recognized.
 
O Grady said:
And as much as anyone may disagree with the idea of ranking DO schools, the fact that most people would take an acceptance to PCOM, KCOM, or MSUCOM as opposed to PNWU, KYCOM, or LUCOM shows that there is some difference in these schools that should be recognized.
Click to expand...

This is a list of established schools v new schools. It doesn't mean the education is inferior. (edit: it's just an untested product--could be good, could be bad.) Ranking means competition. Being competitive rests solely on your shoulders. You can be a PNWU graduate w/ a 240usmle and beat out any PCOM etc, applicant that has a below avg COMLEX for that competitive residency. Because if we're talking competitive residency, we're probably talking ACGME, and there's no way a program director is privy, nor gives a crap, about the SDNers list of top-tier DO schools.
 
Not that this matters or is helpful haha, but I attended an UN-ACCREDITED brand new healing arts program over the past two years, after going to an extremely pricey accredited undergrad (GWU) and honestly... I had a more well-rounded, skill-improving, better organized, nourishing, intellectually stimulating, APPLICABLE educational experience in the brand new un-accredited program than I ever had in any of my undergrad...

You just never know. Intuition about schools and whether or not you'll be happy there makes such a big difference. I've been google mapping all of them because I know that if there aren't some kind of woods or nature nearby, I'll go insane. Definitely things to think about...

Speaking of which, anyone hear much about West Virginia? Looks like the area is BEAUTIFUL... but that's relying on Google Maps and photos...
 
razor said:
This is a list of established schools v new schools. It doesn't mean the education is inferior. (edit: it's just an untested product--could be good, could be bad.) Ranking means competition. Being competitive rests solely on your shoulders. You can be a PNWU graduate w/ a 240usmle and beat out any PCOM etc, applicant that has a below avg COMLEX for that competitive residency. Because if we're talking competitive residency, we're probably talking ACGME, and there's no way a program director is privy, nor gives a crap, about the SDNers list of top-tier DO schools.
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I agree... heck I have actually heard PCOM has been meh the last couple of years. On the other hand I have only heard of amazing things from people coming out of VCOM-VC the past couple of years. I think things in general fluctuate. So the important part is going in with a solid head on your shoulders, rather than relying on the school to do wonders for you.
 
NettleHead said:
Not that this matters or is helpful haha, but I attended an UN-ACCREDITED brand new healing arts program over the past two years, after going to an extremely pricey accredited undergrad (GWU) and honestly... I had a more well-rounded, skill-improving, better organized, nourishing, intellectually stimulating, APPLICABLE educational experience in the brand new un-accredited program than I ever had in any of my undergrad...

You just never know. Intuition about schools and whether or not you'll be happy there makes such a big difference. I've been google mapping all of them because I know that if there aren't some kind of woods or nature nearby, I'll go insane. Definitely things to think about...

Speaking of which, anyone hear much about West Virginia? Looks like the area is BEAUTIFUL... but that's relying on Google Maps and photos...
Click to expand...

WVSOM is a solid school. It has some heavy cost for out of state students. They really push for primary care but somehow they manage to produce a lot of specialists like every year. Heck I am pretty sure they even have their own Neurosurgery residency, though they do not feed their students into it.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
WVSOM is a solid school. It has some heavy cost for out of state students. They really push for primary care but somehow they manage to produce a lot of specialists like every year. Heck I am pretty sure they even have their own Neurosurgery residency, though they do not feed their students into it.
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Oh my lordy, yeah, $50k out of state base price... yikes!
 
razor said:
This is a list of established schools v new schools. It doesn't mean the education is inferior. (edit: it's just an untested product--could be good, could be bad.) Ranking means competition. Being competitive rests solely on your shoulders. You can be a PNWU graduate w/ a 240usmle and beat out any PCOM etc, applicant that has a below avg COMLEX for that competitive residency. Because if we're talking competitive residency, we're probably talking ACGME, and there's no way a program director is privy, nor gives a crap, about the SDNers list of top-tier DO schools.
Click to expand...
I agree, I realize the PD may not give a crap, but it may matter to the student. That's where I think the misunderstanding of DO school ranking may arise. To an allopathic PD, school name means nothing. You can look however at various DO schools' mean COMLEX/USMLE score and realize that the average student at established school X is likely to fair better in the match than the average student at new school Y. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but I'm speaking solely regarding general trends. This isn't just limited to test scores either. While this varies a great deal, it's likely that a more established school has better quality clinical education than the brand new school still trying to get their act together.

I'm not advocating a strict ranking system between individual schools, because even in the allopathic world a school ranked one position above/below another isn't going to matter. I'm simply talking about general trends among osteopathic schools. Most importantly, I realize this is all incredibly subjective, which is why it shouldn't be taken so seriously.
 
O Grady said:
I agree, I realize the PD may not give a crap, but it may matter to the student. That's where I think the misunderstanding of DO school ranking may arise. To an allopathic PD, school name means nothing. You can look however at various DO schools' mean COMLEX/USMLE score and realize that the average student at established school X is likely to fair better in the match than the average student at new school Y. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but I'm speaking solely regarding general trends. This isn't just limited to test scores either. While this varies a great deal, it's likely that a more established school has better quality clinical education than the brand new school still trying to get their act together.

I'm not advocating a strict ranking system between individual schools, because even in the allopathic world a school ranked one position above/below another isn't going to matter. I'm simply talking about general trends among osteopathic schools. Most importantly, I realize this is all incredibly subjective, which is why it shouldn't be taken so seriously.
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This will forever remain my only argument for both established schools and costly schools. The older schools tend to have really solid rotations in place. Realistically will you still have good and bad rotations at ANY school, yes.... but at least at the more established (and therefore more competitive) schools you really have a huge rotation and alumni base to grow from.
 
O Grady said:
I agree, I realize the PD may not give a crap, but it may matter to the student. That's where I think the misunderstanding of DO school ranking may arise. To an allopathic PD, school name means nothing. You can look however at various DO schools' mean COMLEX/USMLE score and realize that the average student at established school X is likely to fair better in the match than the average student at new school Y. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but I'm speaking solely regarding general trends. This isn't just limited to test scores either. While this varies a great deal, it's likely that a more established school has better quality clinical education than the brand new school still trying to get their act together.

I'm not advocating a strict ranking system between individual schools, because even in the allopathic world a school ranked one position above/below another isn't going to matter. I'm simply talking about general trends among osteopathic schools. Most importantly, I realize this is all incredibly subjective, which is why it shouldn't be taken so seriously.
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Fair enough. However, going to a score w/ a low mean score doesn't mean that school caused those low scores. I would be more likely to believe that a newer school (usually the ones with lower scores?) picks up more applicants with lower academic aptitude and this tanks the school's average score, or pass rate or whatever.

To your point about clinical education, this is definitely a weakness of many DO schools just because there is so much variance in quality between the outside hospitals that we all get cast off to for rotations. It's unfortunate, but honestly unless you're trying to get into an overly competitive specialty at an academic site, the general clinical ed in DO community hospitals is more than sufficient. What you really need to come out of school w/ is a solid understanding of the principles of medicine (edit: principles = you + book/lecture + coffee...and some simple H&P skills). You'll learn the practice of medicine in residency. That's the point of it.
 
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If you go to LECOM...you will likely rock your boards. You will also get an excellent opportunity to go on away rotations, so it will give you more opportunities for interviewing/audition rotations. I think that those two factors alone are the reason why LECOM gets students into very competitive residencies. And for those who don't get into the competitive programs...they get into LECOM funded residency programs.

Will students often suffer during 3rd and 4th year? Yes. Will there be some frustration about management now and then? Yes. But the knowledge base is strong and getting into residency is paramount.
 
razor said:
Fair enough. However, going to a score w/ a low mean score doesn't mean that school caused those low scores. I would be more likely to believe that a newer school (usually the ones with lower scores?) picks up more applicants with lower academic aptitude and this tanks the school's average score, or pass rate or whatever.

To your point about clinical education, this is definitely a weakness of many DO schools just because there is so much variance in quality between the outside hospitals that we all get cast off to for rotations. It's unfortunate, but honestly unless you're trying to get into an overly competitive specialty at an academic site, the general clinical ed in DO community hospitals is more than sufficient. What you really need to come out of school w/ is a solid understanding of the principles of medicine. You'll learn the practice of medicine in residency. That's the point of it.
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You raise excellent points. I realize the individual has much more to do with their success in the match than their institution, and EVERY school produces students that put my own academic capabilities to shame. And it really unfortunate that DO rotations can vary so greatly, even at established schools. I suppose all we can do is make the best of those opportunities and hope that we do well enough that we survive PGY-1
 
O Grady said:
Then why are you here interacting with us lowly DOs?


And as much as anyone may disagree with the idea of ranking DO schools, the fact that most people would take an acceptance to PCOM, KCOM, or MSUCOM as opposed to PNWU, KYCOM, or LUCOM shows that there is some difference in these schools that should be recognized.
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Don't be so presumptuous. I'm going to a lowly ranked md. Point is, all of this d@@@ measuring is a pointless fight of who is in last place. We will all be doctors. Just get over the fact that our schools are second rate. I did.

Life is so much better when you get over dumb things like this
 
hallowmann said:
(1) Because they didn't accept or interview me (out of state/region)

(2) Because its in Jersey

(3) Do you really need more?
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It also has an MD program as well. I always thought it was funny having an MD and DO medical school. Do they take the same classes? Do they even differentiate them at all other than the manipulation classes? I'm out of state, but I'm still thinking of applying anyways. It doesn't seem so bad, but I don't care about it being in jersey.
 
kalat said:
It also has an MD program as well. I always thought it was funny having an MD and DO medical school. Do they take the same classes? Do they even differentiate them at all other than the manipulation classes? I'm out of state, but I'm still thinking of applying anyways. It doesn't seem so bad, but I don't care about it being in jersey.
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I was being facetious 🙂
 
kalat said:
It also has an MD program as well. I always thought it was funny having an MD and DO medical school. Do they take the same classes? Do they even differentiate them at all other than the manipulation classes? I'm out of state, but I'm still thinking of applying anyways. It doesn't seem so bad, but I don't care about it being in jersey.
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Cooper is in Camden. Som is in stratford. The two do not take classes together. When cooper originally opened up, som was part of umdnj but after the merger rowan has both cooper and som now.
 
ToKingdomCome said:
Cooper is in Camden. Som is in stratford. The two do not take classes together. When cooper originally opened up, som was part of umdnj but after the merger rowan has both cooper and som now.
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okay cool I didn't know that. I haven't really looked into it at all. Makes more sense with a merger.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
WVSOM is a solid school. It has some heavy cost for out of state students. They really push for primary care but somehow they manage to produce a lot of specialists like every year. Heck I am pretty sure they even have their own Neurosurgery residency, though they do not feed their students into it.
Click to expand...

WVSOM seems to have a poor reputation on SDN, judging by this and other similar threads in the past. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe it's because of its location and people's general opinions of the state of WV? I don't know. In any case, I think this is wrong.

WVSOM is a good school when held to the standards that many others have mentioned here. For some reason, it is always left off the list of "older, more established" DO schools, though it was est in the 1970s. Facilities are updated; there is ample study space on campus. A primary care clinic is immediately on site. It has a solid statewide campus rotation system (a key component). Affiliated residencies are mostly IM and FM but also EM and Urology. As a bonus, it has a beautiful true campus. Cost is expensive for out of state students, but it is a public institution.

As a disclaimer, I am a WVSOM alum, and I simply want to disperse more accurate information about the school.
 
Xenoblade said:
Don't be so presumptuous. I'm going to a lowly ranked md. Point is, all of this d@@@ measuring is a pointless fight of who is in last place. We will all be doctors. Just get over the fact that our schools are second rate. I did.

Life is so much better when you get over dumb things like this
Click to expand...
We all know LUCOM is the bottom. Nobody else needs to feel bad, but I would say some form of ranking is important. If rankings are done correctly, they can reflect the quality of clinical rotations, faculty to student ratio, number of seats in a class, ability/money to do research, what schools are realistic for an applicant, etc. It's a starting point of where to begin investigative schools. Yes, we'll all be doctors in the end, but some of us don't want to take any random ****ty road to get there.
 
blueindigo said:
WVSOM seems to have a poor reputation on SDN, judging by this and other similar threads in the past. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe it's because of its location and people's general opinions of the state of WV? I don't know. In any case, I think this is wrong.

WVSOM is a good school when held to the standards that many others have mentioned here. For some reason, it is always left off the list of "older, more established" DO schools, though it was est in the 1970s. Facilities are updated; there is ample study space on campus. A primary care clinic is immediately on site. It has a solid statewide campus rotation system (a key component). Affiliated residencies are mostly IM and FM but also EM and Urology. As a bonus, it has a beautiful true campus. Cost is expensive for out of state students, but it is a public institution.

As a disclaimer, I am a WVSOM alum, and I simply want to disperse more accurate information about the school.
Click to expand...

So what part of Virginia is this in? And are you a derm working for the beautiful people, or a PCP toiling away in the hollows catering to obese toothless meth addicts? 😀

WVSOM is a fine institution. I've met a graduate from there.
 
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Is it safe to say carribbean > LUCOM?
 
yanks26dmb said:
Is it safe to say carribbean > LUCOM?
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I would go to LUCOM over the Caribbean. I'm sure the facilities are pretty nice at LUCOM and seriously no one knows anything about DO schools. I doubt many people know RVU is a for profit school and Im sure few people know that LUCOM is associated with whatever it's associated with.
 
cliquesh said:
I would go to LUCOM over the Caribbean. I'm sure the facilities are pretty nice at LUCOM and seriously no one knows anything about DO schools. I doubt many people know RVU is a for profit school and Im sure few people know that LUCOM is associated with whatever it's associated with.
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Is there fear that LUCOM students wont be able to match the way some carib students have trouble? Or in all honesty, does LUCOM just get its share of hate because it's run by a bunch of religious nut jobs?
 
yanks26dmb said:
Is there fear that LUCOM students wont be able to match the way some carib students have trouble? Or in all honesty, does LUCOM just get its share of hate because it's run by a bunch of religious nut jobs?
Click to expand...

1) Its brand new
2) Affiliation with certain unsavory individuals (that you alluded to)

As long as their pass rates and board scores are fine (close to the DO averages), they will match the way most DOs match. The thing is, we have now real idea because of (1) above. WCU's first class did pretty bad on all 3 accounts. Most other new schools seem to be doing fine. It really is a matter of risk in the unknown.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
We all know LUCOM is the bottom. Nobody else needs to feel bad, but I would say some form of ranking is important. If rankings are done correctly, they can reflect the quality of clinical rotations, faculty to student ratio, number of seats in a class, ability/money to do research, what schools are realistic for an applicant, etc. It's a starting point of where to begin investigative schools. Yes, we'll all be doctors in the end, but some of us don't want to take any random ****ty road to get there.
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I don't buy that.

If you are really looking at the stuff you mentioned, then that applicant shouldn't apply do at all. Research and faculty to student ratios are the worst at do schools.

This seriously reminds me of bottom fraternities arguing over who is the worst house because this is pathetic
 
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