DO Schools to Avoid?

[Stagg737]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I'm new to SDN and reading through some of the threads it seems like there are some pretty critical opinions of some of the DO schools.

I'm planning on applying to 10-12 schools this cycle and have 5 that I am definitely applying to. I am not sure what field I want to go into, but I'd like to keep the option of specializing as open as possible. Below is the list of the other schools I'm looking at applying to and I'm trying to narrow the list to 5-7 schools. I've done a decent amount of research, but I'd just like to know if anyone has any good reasons to avoid any of the schools I listed (other than typical complaints like 'I had a bad professor'). Or if someone strongly recommends any of these, that would be helpful also

AT-Still Arizona
LECOM (any campus)
NY Institute of Tech
NOVA
Oklahoma State
Tuoro (any campus)
Rowan
New England
TCOM
Western

 

[GlowInTheDark]

I'm new to SDN and reading through some of the threads it seems like there are some pretty critical opinions of some of the DO schools.

I'm planning on applying to 10-12 schools this cycle and have 5 that I am definitely applying to. I am not sure what field I want to go into, but I'd like to keep the option of specializing as open as possible. Below is the list of the other schools I'm looking at applying to and I'm trying to narrow the list to 5-7 schools. I've done a decent amount of research, but I'd just like to know if anyone has any good reasons to avoid any of the schools I listed (other than typical complaints like 'I had a bad professor'). Or if someone strongly recommends any of these, that would be helpful also

AT-Still Arizona
LECOM (any campus)
NY Institute of Tech
NOVA
Oklahoma State
Tuoro (any campus)
Rowan
New England
TCOM
Western

Lecom and Tcom are the most inexpensive. Apply to them.

 

[Banned]

There are no rankings for DO schools. I also don't see any reason to avoid any particular school.

Honestly, I would say any perceived differences in reputation is very small for ACGME residency PDs. To them, a DO is a DO is a DO.

IMO, pick the cheapest school in a location that you like.

 

[DolFAN]

Def apply to NSU, go sharks.

I've heard a lot of negative reviews about Western.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

NYCOM has high drop out rates ( 10 to 20%) and extremely large class sizes.

 

[Starry]

I respectfully disagree with most of the posters before me. Take their advice with this in mind: one man's garbage is another man's treasure. For example, I want to go to Western. <3

That being said, I agree with this:

IMO, pick the cheapest school in a location that you like.

 

[FxnOverload]

NYCOM has high drop out rates ( 10 to 20%) and extremely large class sizes.

Is this real life for drop out rates?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Is this real life for drop out rates?

Outside of the Carribean, yes. They dismiss people very easily and their students generally find the environment far from supportive.

 

[schwasted589]

I've been hearing the same thing about DCOM recently --ever since the increased class size-- but I don't have any proof. Anyone else hear anything similar?

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[Anicetus]

NYCOM has high drop out rates ( 10 to 20%) and extremely large class sizes.

Could you link me to explanations why this is the case?

 

[Temperature101]

NYCOM has high drop out rates ( 10 to 20%) and extremely large class sizes.

I remember seeing that somewhere but I think it was closer to 10% rather than 20....

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Def apply to NSU, go sharks.

I've heard a lot of negative reviews about Western.

I wouldn't believe everything you read online. WesternU is fine. Expensive, but fine. I'd be more cautious applying to new schools than I would established ones like NSU or WesternU.

 

[willen101383]

Is this real life for drop out rates?

People hate on med schools for not babying their students. I am so sick of this mentality. Sure if you have X event happen in ur life and need to repeat a class secondary to that...thats fine. But if you are failing classes d/t just not being smart enough/studying enough, I dont have much sympathy for you.

If you are failing d/t these aforementioned reasons, you shouldnt be in med school. Its really not that hard at all to pass, and schools shouldnt be babying students who cant grasp the material.

I think that by the beginning of m4, my class lost maybe like 10-15 people total.....and my school does baby students. I know of a guy who failed M1 year, then they let him repeat the year, and he failed again.....only to be readmitted to his class last minute to go on to be an M2. Think he is going to pass boards? Think he is going to become a competent doc? Im not so sure about that.

/rant

 

[willen101383]

Could you link me to explanations why this is the case?

Because the school probably doesnt pull you into the deans office and put you in a cradle and rock you to sleep when you are failing. Which is the way it should be.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Because the school probably doesnt pull you into the deans office and put you in a cradle and rock you to sleep when you are failing. Which is the way it should be.

Either way it doesn't seem like a school I'd want to go to. A lot of students are very unhappy even beyond the passing/graduating ones for many reasons.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Because the school probably doesnt pull you into the deans office and put you in a cradle and rock you to sleep when you are failing. Which is the way it should be.

Also doesn't your school fail a crap ton of people for OMM? If they were at NYCOM they'd be majorly screwed.

 

[willen101383]

Also doesn't your school fail a crap ton of people for OMM? If they were at NYCOM they'd be majorly screwed.

They THREATEN to. The OMM chairs at my school have been there for decades so they feel like they carte blanche run the show. So they like to do things like change the syllabus mid semester, force people to go to tutoring, etc. Make threats like "you are going to fail boards because u dont know omm." Funny because I almost failed OMM both M1 and M2 year and my OMM performance on boards for both step 1 and 2 was in the top 75% percentile.

I think OMM can only really sink you at my school if you fail a main course and OMM. But yeah they def love to throw the threats around for sure.

 

[kp11]

I wouldn't believe everything you read online. WesternU is fine. Expensive, but fine. I'd be more cautious applying to new schools than I would established ones like NSU or WesternU.

The caution that most people are speaking of, which is already on countless threads across SDN, deals with how long the schools have been along. Instead of this view look into geographic location of the school in relation to your desired specialty. Remember that a rural school doesn't usually have the premier hospital resources nearby. Teaching quality/effort at a more rural/county hospitals may be lesser than a strongly affiliated teaching hospital; you might be used as a healthcare provider more than a student who needs to be taught proper form and technique.

 

[willen101383]

The caution that most people are speaking of, which is already on countless threads across SDN, deals with how long the schools have been along. Instead of this view look into geographic location of the school in relation to your desired specialty. Remember that a rural school doesn't usually have the premier hospital resources nearby. Teaching quality/effort at a more rural/county hospitals may be lesser than a strongly affiliated teaching hospital; you might be used as a healthcare provider more than a student who needs to be taught proper form and technique.

Disagree based on my experiences. At larger "strongly affiliated" teaching hospitals I was little more than a scut monkey. I faxed med record requests and that was about it.

At the smaller community sites I was at, I did WAYYYYY more. Did plenty of procedures, and the attendings were very into teaching. At my academic sites I was lucky if I even saw my attending routinely.

 

[NYEMMED]

Either way it doesn't seem like a school I'd want to go to. A lot of students are very unhappy even beyond the passing/graduating ones for many reasons.

Went there, graduated there, loved it there (NYCOM). Most students actually do not have a problem with the school at all. Only the bottom of the class tend to dislike the school because they are reminded that they arent performing. Administration has changed so that issue is dead in the water now too. My class lost 8 people voluntarily to be fellows, and I believe 10-15 failed out over 4 years (300+ students, so that number really isnt bad at all.) NYCOM is a hard school with hard standards, many people cant hack it, but the overwhelming majority that does goes on to have an excellent match every year.

 

[Mehd School]

I've been hearing the same thing about DCOM recently --ever since the increased class size-- but I don't have any proof. Anyone else hear anything similar?

Can anyone else chime in on this? LMU is one of my top choices and I've never heard anything resembling this problem for the school.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

what are the 5 schools you are definitely planning on applying to?

Also, as someone mentioned, TCOM is a terrific school and is one of the cheapest, but they have to adhere to accepting 90+% of their class from Texas residents and therefore, if you are not a Texas resident, gaining acceptance is quite difficult.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

It also depends on your stats. If you have a 3.3/24, avoid schools like DMU, CCOM, TCOM, KCUMB, PCOM, etc. because they are a waste of money as you aren't very competitive. If you have a 3.8/30, avoid the newer schools (less than 10 years old) because you are very competitive for a more prestigious program that is well established. But every school is going to be what you make of it. Some people hate DMU for the exact same reasons that I love DMU. Every school is like that.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm new to SDN and reading through some of the threads it seems like there are some pretty critical opinions of some of the DO schools.

I'm planning on applying to 10-12 schools this cycle and have 5 that I am definitely applying to. I am not sure what field I want to go into, but I'd like to keep the option of specializing as open as possible. Below is the list of the other schools I'm looking at applying to and I'm trying to narrow the list to 5-7 schools. I've done a decent amount of research, but I'd just like to know if anyone has any good reasons to avoid any of the schools I listed (other than typical complaints like 'I had a bad professor'). Or if someone strongly recommends any of these, that would be helpful also

AT-Still Arizona
LECOM (any campus)
NY Institute of Tech
NOVA
Oklahoma State
Tuoro (any campus)
Rowan
New England
TCOM
Western

Those are all good schools. You have nothing to worry about. Apply to the ones in locations that you genuinely picture yourself living in. Beyond that, apply and see what you get into.

People complain that NYCOM doesn't hear you out if you do poorly in 1-2 classes (i.e. fail them), while most schools give you a few chances to prove you deserve to be there.

People complain that UNECOM is going through a lot of changes in their curriculum and administration, so you feel out of the loop or frustrated with some of their sudden changes.

People complain about the LECOM administration being for lack of another word abrasive. Plus they have the whole mandatory dress code, no eating or drinking except in the cafeteria, and mandatory attendance at every lecture for LDP. The most consistent thing I've heard from people is that they are strict, but get results.

I haven't heard too many negative things about the rest, but honestly all of these schools are excellent (including the ones above - I'm even going to one in a month).

There is always going to be something about the school that students don't like. No school is "perfect", but there are things that might be especially important to you. Find out what they are and make your decision based on them.

If money is an issue, pick a school that is cheap, if location is important to you, pick a school that is in the area you want to live/end up, and if tech is important pick a school with the most up-to-date tech that you can find (I was impressed by MU-COM and Touro-NY in these areas).

If you really want to get more info on specific schools, you can check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407104 Page 21 has a list of all the previous reviews with dates, and a couple have been added since then.

I've been hearing the same thing about DCOM recently --ever since the increased class size-- but I don't have any proof. Anyone else hear anything similar?

I haven't heard this. I know 2 people who currently attend there, and their only complaint has been the location.

I remember seeing that somewhere but I think it was closer to 10% rather than 20....

10-15% is probably more accurate. I also think that's not straight up attrition rate. I'm pretty sure that includes people who decel or repeat a year.

Disagree based on my experiences. At larger "strongly affiliated" teaching hospitals I was little more than a scut monkey. I faxed med record requests and that was about it.

At the smaller community sites I was at, I did WAYYYYY more. Did plenty of procedures, and the attendings were very into teaching. At my academic sites I was lucky if I even saw my attending routinely.

Isn't that kind of proving his point. He was saying that as a med student you are expected to just jump in and do a lot of stuff that you aren't trained for, as opposed to getting the proper training of how to do things.

I personally see this as a pro and a con: its great that you get a whole lot more exposure to tasks than at big academic hospitals and in turn you'd feel more comfortable in the future, but it would also be nice to have a resident training or explaining stuff to you that people at smaller community hospitals just don't have the time for.

I think a good mix of the two is probably best for a well-rounded education, but pretty much all DO schools have connections with community hospitals, while not all of them have connections with big academic hospitals.

 

[SLC]

I would definitely strongly recommend ATSU-SOMA (Arizona); I'm a student and I honestly can't imagine myself being happier anywhere else (including most MD schools &#128558😉

It's newish, but it's an extremely strong program IMO. I was an underperformed in undergrad, but SOMA taught me medicine well in the first two years and I've been we'll prepared for the boards. I've been an above average student in every way in medical school, and I attribute a lot of that to SOMA and it's curriculum model, student community etc.

 

[Mehd School]

I start there next month and I have heard a couple students mention this but they also seemed jaded. What I can say is there are numerous reasons to not passing including family and medical reasons. I do know the staff seems really receptive to student issues and are always available to help.

Since it is a newer school with lower admission stats then average, it would make sense that there would be a higher drop out rate. Everybody in your year is in the same boat, it's up to you to give it your all. And some people weren't made to handle the rigors med school.

Maybe my views will change once I finish first year.

Hm, well this is definitely disappointing to hear there is probably truth behind it. Having been in a position where your world falls down around you due to family deaths, I can understand how much this can impact you and exactly how unpredictable it is. I'll definitely be inquiring about their attrition rate.

 

[willen101383]

Those are all good schools. You have nothing to worry about. Apply to the ones in locations that you genuinely picture yourself living in. Beyond that, apply and see what you get into.

People complain that NYCOM doesn't hear you out if you do poorly in 1-2 classes (i.e. fail them), while most schools give you a few chances to prove you deserve to be there.

People complain that UNECOM is going through a lot of changes in their curriculum and administration, so you feel out of the loop or frustrated with some of their sudden changes.

People complain about the LECOM administration being for lack of another word abrasive. Plus they have the whole mandatory dress code, no eating or drinking except in the cafeteria, and mandatory attendance at every lecture for LDP. The most consistent thing I've heard from people is that they are strict, but get results.

I haven't heard too many negative things about the rest, but honestly all of these schools are excellent (including the ones above - I'm even going to one in a month).

There is always going to be something about the school that students don't like. No school is "perfect", but there are things that might be especially important to you. Find out what they are and make your decision based on them.

If money is an issue, pick a school that is cheap, if location is important to you, pick a school that is in the area you want to live/end up, and if tech is important pick a school with the most up-to-date tech that you can find (I was impressed by MU-COM and Touro-NY in these areas).

If you really want to get more info on specific schools, you can check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407104 Page 21 has a list of all the previous reviews with dates, and a couple have been added since then.



I haven't heard this. I know 2 people who currently attend there, and their only complaint has been the location.



10-15% is probably more accurate. I also think that's not straight up attrition rate. I'm pretty sure that includes people who decel or repeat a year.



Isn't that kind of proving his point. He was saying that as a med student you are expected to just jump in and do a lot of stuff that you aren't trained for, as opposed to getting the proper training of how to do things.

I personally see this as a pro and a con: its great that you get a whole lot more exposure to tasks than at big academic hospitals and in turn you'd feel more comfortable in the future, but it would also be nice to have a resident training or explaining stuff to you that people at smaller community hospitals just don't have the time for.

I think a good mix of the two is probably best for a well-rounded education, but pretty much all DO schools have connections with community hospitals, while not all of them have connections with big academic hospitals.

I was properly trained by my attendings prior to doing things, or walked through them. They had more than enough time to train me to do things. VS my interns/residents who were frequently wayyy over their heads to give a crap about my experience or teaching me things. Literally, the most technical thing I did on medicine/ the other rotations i had at academic sites, was to fetch a pt a new emesis basin. A far cry from the things I did/ experiences I got at community sites.

But yes, i agree a mix is great. Ultimately you need to learn how to function as a medicine team (albeit as a scutmonkey), and be prepared to be an intern....but its nice having a few skills that many students dont have. PCOM has a good blend of hospitals IMO.

 

[hallowmann]

I was properly trained by my attendings prior to doing things, or walked through them. They had more than enough time to train me to do things. VS my interns/residents who were frequently wayyy over their heads to give a crap about my experience or teaching me things. Literally, the most technical thing I did on medicine/ the other rotations i had at academic sites, was to fetch a pt a new emesis basin. A far cry from the things I did/ experiences I got at community sites.

But yes, i agree a mix is great. Ultimately you need to learn how to function as a medicine team (albeit as a scutmonkey), and be prepared to be an intern....but its nice having a few skills that many students dont have. PCOM has a good blend of hospitals IMO.

Yeah it sounds like a variety is best. I'm sure there are differences at each hospital. Some community hospitals are probably much better than others at training, just as some academic hospitals are probably much better than others at giving a good amount of exposure to actually useful tasks.

 

[Stagg737]

-

 

[Stagg737]

what are the 5 schools you are definitely planning on applying to?

Also, as someone mentioned, TCOM is a terrific school and is one of the cheapest, but they have to adhere to accepting 90+% of their class from Texas residents and therefore, if you are not a Texas resident, gaining acceptance is quite difficult.

The 5 I'm applying to are DMU, PCOM, KCUMB, CCOM, and RVU. I live about 15 minutes from CCOM, so that one is a no-brainer for me. I know there's a lot of concern about RVU from a lot of people out there but I have 2 friends that are 4th years there and have nothing but great things to say about it. They both got into their 1st choice (specialty) residencies and only knew 1 person that didn't match one of their top 2 choices. I know it's new, but I feel pretty comfortable applying there.

I just don't know much about the schools in my list other than LECOM Bradenton since I interviewed there a few years ago

 

[Stagg737]

It also depends on your stats. If you have a 3.3/24, avoid schools like DMU, CCOM, TCOM, KCUMB, PCOM, etc. because they are a waste of money as you aren't very competitive. If you have a 3.8/30, avoid the newer schools (less than 10 years old) because you are very competitive for a more prestigious program that is well established. But every school is going to be what you make of it. Some people hate DMU for the exact same reasons that I love DMU. Every school is like that.

Well I have a 28 MCAT 3.26 science/3.32 overall GPA, but I just finished a Master's and had a 3.77, so I'm hoping that helps out the GPA aspect. I'm not positive about what field I want to pursue, but I want to make sure I go somewhere that would give me a solid chance to specialize if I want to. I'm fine with all of the schools I listed in terms of location and I'm pretty confident I could get in somewhere. I just want to make sure I keep my options as open as possible since the only thing I'm certain about is that I want to do some kind of international work at some point in my career.

 

[kp11]

Well I have a 28 MCAT 3.26 science/3.32 overall GPA, but I just finished a Master's and had a 3.77, so I'm hoping that helps out the GPA aspect. I'm not positive about what field I want to pursue, but I want to make sure I go somewhere that would give me a solid chance to specialize if I want to. I'm fine with all of the schools I listed in terms of location and I'm pretty confident I could get in somewhere. I just want to make sure I keep my options as open as possible since the only thing I'm certain about is that I want to do some kind of international work at some point in my career.

You've got the right attitude about the process. No matter where you go, if you want something or some specialty bad enough, go and make it happen! My only cautionary note is that the DO degree is not recognized in EVERY country to be equal with MD. We can all hope that some day that changes. But just make sure that your desired country recognizes the degree, or else you might be out of luck.

 

[hallowmann]

You've got the right attitude about the process. No matter where you go, if you want something or some specialty bad enough, go and make it happen! My only cautionary note is that the DO degree is not recognized in EVERY country to be equal with MD. We can all hope that some day that changes. But just make sure that your desired country recognizes the degree, or else you might be out of luck.

This is true, provided you are talking about actually emigrating to another country and being licensed there, which is pretty difficult in and of itself.

If you are just talking about working internationally with non-profit aid organizations like Doctors Without Borders, then DOs have full practice rights through those types of organizations, they just can't set up shop and work in those countries privately.

 

[Stagg737]

If you are just talking about working internationally with non-profit aid organizations like Doctors Without Borders, then DOs have full practice rights through those types of organizations, they just can't set up shop and work in those countries privately.

That's more what I was talking about. I'm applying DO and MD, but I actually like the DO philosophy better and would like to learn OMM (even if some of it is useless). My only hesitations about DO are the possibility of specializing and the fact that certain parts of the country definitely do still have a stigma against them. There are only 2 or 3 MDs that I applied to that I would definitely choose over DO, and I probably only have a real good chance at one of them, so at this point I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for getting in anywhere

 

[calvinhobbes]

.

 

[SurgeDO]

Don't go to NYCOM if you value your time and money. The school is ridiculously overpriced and it simply is in the buisness to make money, it can care less about medical education or helping its students. Be smart and go to a U.S. MD school where you will find more resources and support to succeed in the world of medicine. NYCOM is losing all of its strongest hospital rotations to MD schools, and when the students asked why, since we pay so much tuition to attend, they couldn't answer because, well, it's quite obvious-- it's an MD world out there and hospitals want prestige, and thus will sever ties with a DO program if they are offered clinical affiliation with an MD program.

NYCOM = 👎

hospitals want money...pre-meds and whiney medical students want prestige.

 

[Procyon]

Every school is gonna have its cons and reasons people will cite for avoiding it. Ultimately, these schools are all churning out doctors though, so when it boils down to it, it's whatever feels right for you. Apply to the ones you are interested in, and use the interview as an experience to test out the school as much as they're testing you out (don't be afraid to ask tough questions.)

 

[Stagg737]

what are the 5 schools you are definitely planning on applying to?

Also, as someone mentioned, TCOM is a terrific school and is one of the cheapest, but they have to adhere to accepting 90+% of their class from Texas residents and therefore, if you are not a Texas resident, gaining acceptance is quite difficult.

I didn't realize TCOM had to accept that many in-state people. I don't have any ties to Texas, so that's good to know.

 

[Silent Cool]

It also depends on your stats. If you have a 3.3/24, avoid schools like DMU, CCOM, TCOM, KCUMB, PCOM, etc. because they are a waste of money as you aren't very competitive. If you have a 3.8/30, avoid the newer schools (less than 10 years old) because you are very competitive for a more prestigious program that is well established. But every school is going to be what you make of it. Some people hate DMU for the exact same reasons that I love DMU. Every school is like that.

With those stats, I would avoid DO schools altogether.

 

[D.O.orD.O.not]

Avoid WCUCOM if possible. I heard from a friend of mine there that if you fail one OPP test (which isn't very hard to do at that school) you will have to remediate the entire course no matter what. Even if you make a 100 on every other assignment and test. INSANE. Glad I didn't pick them.

 

[AlteredScale]

Avoid WCUCOM if possible. I heard from a friend of mine there that if you fail one OPP test (which isn't very hard to do at that school) you will have to remediate the entire course no matter what. Even if you make a 100 on every other assignment and test. INSANE. Glad I didn't pick them.

Holy necrobump batman!

 

[Mad Jack]

Avoid WCUCOM if possible. I heard from a friend of mine there that if you fail one OPP test (which isn't very hard to do at that school) you will have to remediate the entire course no matter what. Even if you make a 100 on every other assignment and test. INSANE. Glad I didn't pick them.

Given that he's already a medical student and this thread is 2 years old, gonna say you might be a bit late on this one.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Avoid WCUCOM if possible. I heard from a friend of mine there that if you fail one OPP test (which isn't very hard to do at that school) you will have to remediate the entire course no matter what. Even if you make a 100 on every other assignment and test. INSANE. Glad I didn't pick them.

He ended up getting into a pretty awesome school.

 

[samac]

I read the original post and was like "Is Staggs trolling? He's been around longer than me and I'm pretty sure he's a med student!"
Yep. Yep.
Brand new accounts that necro bump are there just to make me angry.

 

[apr27]

Where did you end up going?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile