DO schools

[stud247]

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There are many reasons that you'd want to attend a MD program for research-driven fields such as radiology, I didn't really elaborate on them but in general it will be in your best interest to attend a MD school because they tend to be more research focused. It's not impossible to match into the field from a DO program but I still think the OP would be best served attending a MD school, especially since his stats are competitive for one.

That is also what I've been meaning to ask about. How are the research opportunities at MD schools so much better? I looked up pubmed for some topics I find interesting and far from every MD school is doing research on it. So if you are at a MD school in Albany you might not get to do researc in certain areas. But if you are at a DO school in NYC or near any other big university (i.e. florida has Erie near UF and Nova near U Miami), you can do research at those schools as long as you have the time, or am i missing something? I understand that if you do reserach at your home school, they might give u credit for it to make the time management easier. But either way it would be very difficult to get good grades and do research in addition to that.

Also, what if I(or someone) wants to go into a noncompetitive specialty? Why all the effort to get into MD school? I mean there are people who go to harvard med and then end up in FM on their own volition. So why go through all the hurdles??

 

[stud247]

I'm done with my SMP this semester, at least in terms of classes, but will be finishing my research project through the summer and next semester and my lab is hoping to have at least two publications by the fall, so I'm applying this year.

Some people really knock Downstate's "atmosphere" because they haven't seen how much Brooklyn has changed. Is it still in a rough area? Yeah, but its a lot better than it was 10 years ago and I've only heard good about the school from the doctor's where I clerk during summers (I don't clerk at downstate but another high volume er in new york).

I see. so you've taken some really strong steps to improve your application. I am not going to go that far. I will be one of those 90% of those smp students who apply to med schools while theyre still in the program and then about 50% of them make it.

 

[stud247]

Honestly, those stats you listed should be enough to get you into an MD school..


However, Radiology is a specialty notorious for being board heavy when selecting it's residents. If you rock Step I, you shouldn't have a problem matching. There are plenty of students in our school right now that got mid 30s on the MCATs and are planning to go into competitive specialties..

Also, you might want to ask some advice on the Rads forum...

Thanks. It wasn't enough to get me in the 1st time. I think I might ask on the radiology forum some questions about DO. But I am not even sure if I want to go DO. I just dont want to do FM and most likely don't want to do surgery(i observed and assisted a bit and i wasnt growsed out but i didnt really enjoy it).

 

[stud247]

Also, how do I learn more about Step1? From reading the other forums I've noticed that a 250+ step1 would make you competitive at most residencies even if you don't have much research. But is it really attainable? I just know that it tests biological sciences🙂

 

[Styria]

There seems to be a new DO school popping up every year, some of them even "for-profit". I suspect that if accreditation were just as easy, these for-profit DO schools would have been for-profit MD schools, but it seems that it is easier for DO schools to get their DO accreditation. It's a shame, because there are some solid DO schools (PCOM etc), but with new sub-par and for-profit DO schools opening up everywhere, the stigma of a DO degree being a "quack" degree will probably take a little longer to fully shed. That's something you'll have to live with, the constant defense of your degree, for the rest of your life.

In addition to the ignorance already pointed out for this comment, the new schools are not sub-par. They're picking up excellent faculty from established schools. And accreditation requirements are just as rigorous.

 

[Bacchus]

That is also what I've been meaning to ask about. How are the research opportunities at MD schools so much better? I looked up pubmed for some topics I find interesting and far from every MD school is doing research on it. So if you are at a MD school in Albany you might not get to do researc in certain areas. But if you are at a DO school in NYC or near any other big university (i.e. florida has Erie near UF and Nova near U Miami), you can do research at those schools as long as you have the time, or am i missing something? I understand that if you do reserach at your home school, they might give u credit for it to make the time management easier. But either way it would be very difficult to get good grades and do research in addition to that.

Also, what if I(or someone) wants to go into a noncompetitive specialty? Why all the effort to get into MD school? I mean there are people who go to harvard med and then end up in FM on their own volition. So why go through all the hurdles??

Most MD schools are attached to some form of a [large] undergraduate institution. These places are powerhouses for research because of sheer resources. If you look at MSU-COM it will be doing substantially more research than most, if not all other osteopathic schools because its attached to Michigan State. DO schools have research and some of them do quite a lot. The problem is you don't perceive it as much because they get much less funding from NIH, NSF, CDC, etc because they don't have the undergraduate counterparts known for powerhouse research.

 

[drizzt3117]

Also, how do I learn more about Step1? From reading the other forums I've noticed that a 250+ step1 would make you competitive at most residencies even if you don't have much research. But is it really attainable? I just know that it tests biological sciences🙂

Step I is a much more knowledge based test than the MCAT. It's a lot more analogous to what you learn in med school than the MCAT is analogous to what you learn in premed classes. Having a high MCAT score isn't that good a predictor of step 1 success (pretty weak correlation) 250 is ~1.6 standard devlations above the mean so about 89th percentile, so you'd need to do better than 90% of med students taking the test.

 

[Revilla]

That is also what I've been meaning to ask about. How are the research opportunities at MD schools so much better? I looked up pubmed for some topics I find interesting and far from every MD school is doing research on it. So if you are at a MD school in Albany you might not get to do researc in certain areas. But if you are at a DO school in NYC or near any other big university (i.e. florida has Erie near UF and Nova near U Miami), you can do research at those schools as long as you have the time, or am i missing something? I understand that if you do reserach at your home school, they might give u credit for it to make the time management easier. But either way it would be very difficult to get good grades and do research in addition to that.

Also, what if I(or someone) wants to go into a noncompetitive specialty? Why all the effort to get into MD school? I mean there are people who go to harvard med and then end up in FM on their own volition. So why go through all the hurdles??

Just a few points -- as a Florida resident, I can tell you that Lake Erie COM is in Bradenton, which is a good 2+ hours away from Gainesville, where UF is. You may be able to do research over the summer between first and second years, but I'd look into whether or not UF will consider students from other schools for research positions when they probably have so many of their own students interested.

It isn't true that Tampa has a lot of shark attacks relative to the rest of the state. The incidents are no higher in the Tampa Bay area than anywhere else in the state. That said, research the Florida schools and come up with better reasons to be here than the beaches.

USF (in Tampa) will take out-of-state students and so will UCF (in Orlando), though UCF has the no-tuition perk so it's super competitive. For Miami, I think your GPA needs to be higher to apply as out-of-state, but call and ask. I know FSU is primarily in-state and I'm not sure what UF or FIU's policy is. Of course, both Nova and LECOM are out-of-state friendly and, IMO, great schools as well. What I would do is wait until around June and then contact some of these schools to see if you can make an advising appointment over the phone. Ask them what they want to see as far as out-of-state applicants go. The admissions people at Florida schools -- both DO and MD -- are very nice and helpful, I've found.

As for your career goals, I don't think the osteopathic route will hinder you. Work hard, do well on the boards and third-year rotations, and I think you can land a competitive specialty.

 

[stud247]

Thank you for the replies! I think one of the reasons that I'll do SMP is so that no matter whether I end up in DO or MD I will have 3years to prepare for step1 instead of 2. Of course my smp year will not be as effective because if/when I get in my discipline will go down. But I should still be better prepared for M1, even though it will be annoying to repeat classes. But if it means improving step1, it's worth it.

UMiami has on their website that 3.6 is minimum for outofstaters. Other Florida MD schools are even more competitive for outofstaters. Nova is definitely within 30mins of Umiami if I were to do research. But I guess no matter where I end up I cant really expect to do much research during the year as that would diminish my step1 effort.

 

[Revilla]

Just a word of caution about SMPs -- the director of admissions at UCF used to be the director of admissions at USF. His name is REL Larkin and he posts here. If you search for posts by REL, you'll find him. He advises SMPs only as a last resort, good for people who have no shot of getting in otherwise, not for people with borderline GPAs. He explains that his reasoning is that if you do an SMP and don't do well (and this doesn't mean failing necessarily, just not well), for whatever reason, it's game over. You're taking a big gamble doing an SMP with a 3.3 GPA and 37 MCAT, IMO. I would talk to some admissions counselors before you commit to it. I think it's a mistake.

 

[glamqueen]

Huge mistake. Just apply early and broadly for MD and DO. You should get in just fine. Don't do a SMP. Pointless in your case.

 

[WannaBeMD89]

I got rejected everywhere this cycle. I did not apply to any DO schools. Now I am working to improve my application, but I will also add DO schools to my list of schools. But I wonder if I should even care about the MD schools any more? Part of my application will now include a 1yr SMP. it's expensive obviously. I was a splitter (high mcat, low gpa), but I feel I would have easily gotten into DO schools. So I wonder how much am I missing really if I were to go to a DO school? I am not sure about my specialty choice, but I would strongly consider radiology(a competitive specialty). I wonder if I would be at a great disadvantage by going DO or as long as my step1 scores are comparable, my chances to get in are comparable? I am confident that I would do on step1 as well as on the mcat.

IMO, try taking some more classes to raise that GPA up and there is no "disadvantage" to applying for DO schools. Just a different approach to medicine, such as manipulative techniques.

 

[stud247]

I have done some more reserach. Other than MD, I intend to also apply to Nova, Unecom, PCOM, DMU. In this case I will shoot for EM residency and since these schools are expensive I will also try to do HPSP. This brings me to another point. I'll take out 50k in loans for SMP. But HPSP does not repay them. It's not a lot of money over 30yrs. But it would still be nicer if I got into my state MD school (although it is geographically in a rotten area) and did not have to do HPSP.

I see no alternatives for SMP. My gpa is around 10%ile for most MD schools, below average at many DO schools. I cant even get a good research assistantship lined up. And if I did, it would not address my lack of gpa. I know it is very easy to reject someone based on bad gpa or bad mcat. they just need 1 more factor (like 1 slip during interview). If you address your gpa/mcat, then average EC's are not as much of a red flag.

 

[witness23]

take undergrad courses to raise that gpa

 

[drizzt3117]

I have done some more reserach. Other than MD, I intend to also apply to Nova, Unecom, PCOM, DMU. In this case I will shoot for EM residency and since these schools are expensive I will also try to do HPSP. This brings me to another point. I'll take out 50k in loans for SMP. But HPSP does not repay them. It's not a lot of money over 30yrs. But it would still be nicer if I got into my state MD school (although it is geographically in a rotten area) and did not have to do HPSP.

I see no alternatives for SMP. My gpa is around 10%ile for most MD schools, below average at many DO schools. I cant even get a good research assistantship lined up. And if I did, it would not address my lack of gpa. I know it is very easy to reject someone based on bad gpa or bad mcat. they just need 1 more factor (like 1 slip during interview). If you address your gpa/mcat, then average EC's are not as much of a red flag.

1) Don't do hpsp for the money, esp if you want a competitive specialty.

2) SMPs only help if you do very well. If you do ok in one and don't get in 1st semester, it might hurt you a lot.

 

[Revilla]

I have done some more reserach. Other than MD, I intend to also apply to Nova, Unecom, PCOM, DMU. In this case I will shoot for EM residency and since these schools are expensive I will also try to do HPSP. This brings me to another point. I'll take out 50k in loans for SMP. But HPSP does not repay them. It's not a lot of money over 30yrs. But it would still be nicer if I got into my state MD school (although it is geographically in a rotten area) and did not have to do HPSP.

I see no alternatives for SMP. My gpa is around 10%ile for most MD schools, below average at many DO schools. I cant even get a good research assistantship lined up. And if I did, it would not address my lack of gpa. I know it is very easy to reject someone based on bad gpa or bad mcat. they just need 1 more factor (like 1 slip during interview). If you address your gpa/mcat, then average EC's are not as much of a red flag.

You need to do more research here. First, your GPA is a 3.3. That's not stellar, but keep in mind the average accepted MD student's is 3.6, which means many of the accepted students fall below that in order to make that the average. Take another year of undergrad classes and bring it up to a 3.4 or maybe a 3.5 and you should be good. Also, the average MD accepted student has a 31 MCAT. You have a 37. That does count for something. An SMP is a mistake with your stats, IMO.

Second, when you apply to DO schools, the application service -- AACOMAS -- replaces grades. So say you took Humanities and earned a C, then took it again and earned an A, only the A counts in determining your GPA. It's easy to raise your GPA by retaking classes you didn't earn an A in when applying to DO schools.

 

[witness23]

well, dont retake classes. take upper level bio, kick, push and coast.

you may lose another year though. i believe you are implying that you don't want to and that is why you are considering smp.

did you graduate?

 

[Revilla]

well, dont retake classes. take upper level bio, kick, push and coast.

If he/she applies to osteopathic schools, retaking classes is the quickest way to improve the GPA. AACOMAS replaces grades in GPA calculation, unlike AMCAS.

 

[stud247]

well, dont retake classes. take upper level bio, kick, push and coast.

you may lose another year though. i believe you are implying that you don't want to and that is why you are considering smp.

did you graduate?

Yes, I am not going to take another year off. I am old. If I had applied and gotten accepted into DO schools this cycle, I would be happy to go there. But since I am reapplying, I'll make another effort at MD (but also DO). Retaking classes or continuing at an ugrad implies taking another year off. I am really counting on getting in somewhere this fall during or at the end of my 1st semester at SMP.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yes, I am not going to take another year off. I am old. If I had applied and gotten accepted into DO schools this cycle, I would be happy to go there. But since I am reapplying, I'll make another effort at MD (but also DO). Retaking classes or continuing at an ugrad implies taking another year off. I am really counting on getting in somewhere this fall during or at the end of my 1st semester at SMP.

Seems risky to me. If you don't get in during the SMP (and the majority of people don't) and don't do well in the SMP (in the top 20-30% percent relative to med students) you will be hurting your chances in addition to taking longer. If you could only get a 3.3 in undergrad what makes you think you're going to score in top 20-30% relative to med students, the vast majority of which had higher GPAs than you going in?

 

[stud247]

Seems risky to me. If you don't get in during the SMP (and the majority of people don't) and don't do well in the SMP (in the top 20-30% percent relative to med students) you will be hurting your chances in addition to taking longer. If you could only get a 3.3 in undergrad what makes you think you're going to score in top 20-30% relative to med students, the vast majority of which had higher GPAs than you going in?

I think I have a very good chance to get into a DO school (to which I did not apply last cycle), I would consider that my safety. Also I failed a class in freshman year, so my DO Gpa would be 3.4, not 3.3.. As for MD schools, supposedly 50%+ of georgetown smp students get in somewhere during the year they apply. And those decisions are obviously based on only the 1st semester. I think one of the reasons some schools might be willing to take you after smp is that you waste 50k just for a chance to get in. That implies a strong interest in medicine.

Also I looked at the military stipends. National Guard had a great program for MD/DO/DDS students, but they will not renew it for the next year. So now I either have to take out loans or go HPSP. In this situation, I will do HPSP even if I get into MD schools. And I heard that in the military they don't even discriminate against DOs (though their residencies are not as good as civilian md).

 

[n618ft]

Bring that GPA up... get off this website and go enroll somewhere cheap as a non-degree graduate (or post-bac) student NOW NOW NOW... This time around, apply to more MD programs. That side of FL has some nice beaches... I'm sure you can google info on it. 37 on the MCAT... that would be funny to go to a DO school as a backup... with that MCAT score you should go to a DO school if you really believe in the ideology behind it and are set on it, not as a backup!

PLUS... If you're questioning DO, there's your answer!!

 

[pietachok]

I never finished reading this whole thread...
but if you noticed this past year, many schools have a statement either on their 2ndary or somewhere else in their admissions material that you must complete any graduate programs in which you are enrolled during the application prior to enrollment. Mostly I think this is meant to keep people from ditching 2 year programs mid-way, but I think it would be applicable to an SMP. It would not, however, be applicable to a post-bacc.

With a 3.3 and a 37, I agree with a few others here that you can forgo the SMP/post-bacc and save a lot of money. You may not get into the same "ranking" of school, but I don't put too much weight in that anyhow...the medical education in the US is so standardized that all the schools give you a good education. I applied w/ a 3.45/3.21sci and a 34 MCAT and I got in...So, if you apply earlier and work on your essay and interviewing skills (and probably other aspects of how you present yourself on your app) you should get in w/out more coursework. SDN is a very skewed pool.

I don't believe you will be missing anything at any D.O. schools as long as you don't attend a new one that hasn't graduated a class yet. If you have a question regarding choosing DO schools, feel free to PM me. I am probably one of the more open minded MD-bound students on here who won't turn it into a flame war. I thought I had no option other than DO, and my mom is an MD who trains a lot of DO residents/fellows, so I've been around them my whole life. This doesn't mean there aren't pros and cons to the schools, of course. The general downsides of DO schools is that they do less research if that's your thing, and more of them send you away for some of your rotations if not all of them, and you have to do OMM (which I only see as a downside b/c it's like a whole extra class on top of the rest of the med school curriculum MD's do).

 

[drizzt3117]

I think I have a very good chance to get into a DO school (to which I did not apply last cycle), I would consider that my safety. Also I failed a class in freshman year, so my DO Gpa would be 3.4, not 3.3.. As for MD schools, supposedly 50%+ of georgetown smp students get in somewhere during the year they apply. And those decisions are obviously based on only the 1st semester. I think one of the reasons some schools might be willing to take you after smp is that you waste 50k just for a chance to get in. That implies a strong interest in medicine.

I wouldn't bank on that by any means. I have a number of friends in the Georgetown SMP that didn't get in during their SMP year that did well in first semester (3.8+)

Also I looked at the military stipends. National Guard had a great program for MD/DO/DDS students, but they will not renew it for the next year. So now I either have to take out loans or go HPSP. In this situation, I will do HPSP even if I get into MD schools. And I heard that in the military they don't even discriminate against DOs (though their residencies are not as good as civilian md).

I would forget about competitive residencies then, unless you want to take lots of GMO years. Maybe think about FAP for that instead.

 

[stud247]

I never finished reading this whole thread...
but if you noticed this past year, many schools have a statement either on their 2ndary or somewhere else in their admissions material that you must complete any graduate programs in which you are enrolled during the application prior to enrollment. Mostly I think this is meant to keep people from ditching 2 year programs mid-way, but I think it would be applicable to an SMP. It would not, however, be applicable to a post-bacc.

With a 3.3 and a 37, I agree with a few others here that you can forgo the SMP/post-bacc and save a lot of money. You may not get into the same "ranking" of school, but I don't put too much weight in that anyhow...the medical education in the US is so standardized that all the schools give you a good education. I applied w/ a 3.45/3.21sci and a 34 MCAT and I got in...So, if you apply earlier and work on your essay and interviewing skills (and probably other aspects of how you present yourself on your app) you should get in w/out more coursework. SDN is a very skewed pool.

I don't believe you will be missing anything at any D.O. schools as long as you don't attend a new one that hasn't graduated a class yet. If you have a question regarding choosing DO schools, feel free to PM me. I am probably one of the more open minded MD-bound students on here who won't turn it into a flame war. I thought I had no option other than DO, and my mom is an MD who trains a lot of DO residents/fellows, so I've been around them my whole life. This doesn't mean there aren't pros and cons to the schools, of course. The general downsides of DO schools is that they do less research if that's your thing, and more of them send you away for some of your rotations if not all of them, and you have to do OMM (which I only see as a downside b/c it's like a whole extra class on top of the rest of the med school curriculum MD's do).

Hey, I cannot take postbac because any impact it would have would take at least 1year preapplication, assuming I did well. I did not read this statement about being enrolled in grad programs, but that makes me really unhappy to take smp. If I got accepted anywhere in the fall, I would likely want to go on a long vacation, to travel. And obviously to save 25k on semester of tuition. Though 1 use for smp is that I would be sort of studying for step1 for 3years instead of 2. Either way, I just do not see any alternatives. I am sort of working at a lab until July. But after that I am completely unemployed and I haven't done anything to address my gpa.

Your mdapps speaks volumes: "I have several years of work behind me in medicine in clinical research. Low GPA was caused by illness noted in LOR's.", "Keep in mind if you've got my GPA but didn't go to an Ivy league school, and/or didn't major in Engineering, you might not turn out the same...I had a really hard time getting interviews (I feel), "
You did get rejected preinterview at the only (state) school where I interviewed, and got rejected. Yet you have addressed your low gpa and you have the several years of consistent EC's... Your MCAT was much higher than the average at many of those schools. So for me "doing nothing" is not exactly a good option.
For DO schools I plan to apply to DMU, PCOM(btw it is really frustrating that DO schools rejected you while USC accepted you), Nova, and Erie-Bradenton. I would like to learn (it's fine if in PM) about any differences between the 4 in terms of curriculum, step1/complex preparation,etc. But I would be very influenced by the geographical/social scene.

 

[stud247]

Bring that GPA up... get off this website and go enroll somewhere cheap as a non-degree graduate (or post-bac) student NOW NOW NOW... This time around, apply to more MD programs. That side of FL has some nice beaches... I'm sure you can google info on it. 37 on the MCAT... that would be funny to go to a DO school as a backup... with that MCAT score you should go to a DO school if you really believe in the ideology behind it and are set on it, not as a backup!

PLUS... If you're questioning DO, there's your answer!!

Hey I see no point to do postbac now. Wouldn't know where and since I am filling out amcas next month, it has absolutely no impact. Ive never been to gulf coast FL. But even here in miami beach it is windy now. I am afraid of sharks. I see people kite boarding, but you can do it just as well in lake michigan or even st. lawrence river without fear of sharks. So really Florida is just "ok", I don't think it is my dream to live in florida.

 

[stud247]

I wouldn't bank on that by any means. I have a number of friends in the Georgetown SMP that didn't get in during their SMP year that did well in first semester (3.8+)



I would forget about competitive residencies then, unless you want to take lots of GMO years. Maybe think about FAP for that instead.

That's really disappointing. 3.8 would put you in the top 10% of the smp class. So how do they get rejected if 50%+ get accepted while applying in the program? Also I read somewhere on the postbac forums that if you get something like 3.6 during 1st semester smp you are almost guaranteed interviews at a number of schools including Drexel(they didnt even acknowledge me with a rejection letter), SLU(didnt apply there because they have a 3.7+ avg),GW, NYMC, Albany.

Regarding Military, why do you think they are more competitive than civilian residencies? I heard that up to 50% of army hpsp people are DO (so no elitism) and they care much more about your step1 and on-site rotations as opposed to your home institution LOR and Research (something that makes a difference if you go to one of the better schools or if you just put a lot of time into that). And I heard Army avoids GMO tours. In the navy, I would indeed be forced into GMO, but that would strengthen my application (though I would lose 3years). But I would aim to match into Army based on high step1(I wouldnt put much effort into much else).

 

[rkaz]

If you decide to go for a SMP, you need to be certain of doing very well. Otherwise, it can only hurt your application.

I know someone (most likely she'll be my future classmate this year) who did a SMP. I believe her undergrad GPA was something like a 3.5-3.6, but then she did a SMP and got like a 3.3 GPA. She still worked hard to get that, but obviously it didn't help, and she wouldn't have done the SMP if she had to do it over.

My advice to you is similar to what most people here have posted: take a few science courses over the summer (retake any courses 'C' or lower, and if there is nothing lower than a 'C' then take a few more upper division science courses). Then make sure all your applications to MD and DO schools are sent out by the end of the summer. Apply widely to both.

Don't just expect that just because your stats are good that all DO schools will open their arms to you. My stats were above average for nearly all DO school's matriculating students, but some schools still didn't even invite me for an interview. Thankfully I was accepted at both schools I interviewed at (and I am waitlisted at one MD program), but it's important to still apply widely and not take chances.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you decide to go for a SMP, you need to be certain of doing very well. Otherwise, it can only hurt your application.

I know someone (most likely she'll be my future classmate this year) who did a SMP. I believe her undergrad GPA was something like a 3.5-3.6, but then she did a SMP and got like a 3.3 GPA. She still worked hard to get that, but obviously it didn't help, and she wouldn't have done the SMP if she had to do it over.

If you're talking about rennykim I believe she had a 3.8 cGPA going in.

 

[Optimator]

>

 

[rkaz]

If you're talking about rennykim I believe she had a 3.8 cGPA going in.

Oh okay, yes I was referring to her. I didn't bother to pull up her Mdapps profile as I was just going off recall.

 

[drizzt3117]

That's really disappointing. 3.8 would put you in the top 10% of the smp class. So how do they get rejected if 50%+ get accepted while applying in the program? Also I read somewhere on the postbac forums that if you get something like 3.6 during 1st semester smp you are almost guaranteed interviews at a number of schools including Drexel(they didnt even acknowledge me with a rejection letter), SLU(didnt apply there because they have a 3.7+ avg),GW, NYMC, Albany.

Nope, my friends got interviews at GW and nowhere else, hardly any love this cycle at all from MD schools. They also had pretty decent (acceptable) profiles before doing the SMP, 3.65/30ish.

Regarding Military, why do you think they are more competitive than civilian residencies?

because there are hardly any residencies in radiology and they often go to those with multiple GMOs under their belt.

 

[Just Joshin]

If you're talking about rennykim I believe she had a 3.8 cGPA going in.

Why would anyone with a 3.8 do an SMP?

 

[pietachok]

Hey, I cannot take postbac because any impact it would have would take at least 1year preapplication, assuming I did well. I did not read this statement about being enrolled in grad programs, but that makes me really unhappy to take smp. If I got accepted anywhere in the fall, I would likely want to go on a long vacation, to travel. And obviously to save 25k on semester of tuition. Though 1 use for smp is that I would be sort of studying for step1 for 3years instead of 2. Either way, I just do not see any alternatives. I am sort of working at a lab until July. But after that I am completely unemployed and I haven't done anything to address my gpa.

Your mdapps speaks volumes: "I have several years of work behind me in medicine in clinical research. Low GPA was caused by illness noted in LOR's.", "Keep in mind if you've got my GPA but didn't go to an Ivy league school, and/or didn't major in Engineering, you might not turn out the same...I had a really hard time getting interviews (I feel), "
You did get rejected preinterview at the only (state) school where I interviewed, and got rejected. Yet you have addressed your low gpa and you have the several years of consistent EC's... Your MCAT was much higher than the average at many of those schools. So for me "doing nothing" is not exactly a good option.
For DO schools I plan to apply to DMU, PCOM(btw it is really frustrating that DO schools rejected you while USC accepted you), Nova, and Erie-Bradenton. I would like to learn (it's fine if in PM) about any differences between the 4 in terms of curriculum, step1/complex preparation,etc. But I would be very influenced by the geographical/social scene.

You also have a really high MCAT score, so I'm not sure why you feel you'd end up in a different situtaion than I. DMU, PCOM and CCOM all rejected me without interview. CCOM--probably based on my awful 2ndary essay (I was burnt out and knew it). DMU b/c of my GPA. PCOM sent me a letter complaining that I didn't have a DO LOR. However, every other DO school I applied to I got an interview and accepted. You're welcome to PM me about any questions.

As soon as you posted this comment about me and my MD apps, someone decided it was a good opportunity to call me an arrogant jerk, as if I were bragging by being factual on my MD apps...sheesh. They told me Keck took me b/c they felt back for "my old ass" as if schools took people b/c they felt sorry for them ...sad that some people have time on their hands to try and make up for their own feelings of insecurities by saying such snarky junk.

Point being, there's a reason there are 4.0 applicants w/ good MCAT scores who are rejected--they have bad personalities and bad attitudes and it comes across in essays, interviews, and LOR's.--while those w/ a 3.3 GPA can and do get in. If you have a 3.3 you can be on the other end of that spectrum if you prove that you have a great personality, attitude, and aptitude for medicine...and the MCAT and your undergrad GPA won't be as good a measure of that (in my opinion) as some strong LOR's from respected physicians who have seen you interact w/ patients who have trusted you and for whom you have expressed care *and* scientific understanding/interest in their illness. Those people know more about medicine than any bio or chem teacher, and their LOR's can be obtained without paying all those $ for an SMP.

While I don't think everybody w/ your stats can just walk into a D.O. program, I think you'd be pretty secure if you convinced them you had good intentions and applied broadly across DO schools. Obviously, if I'd applied only to CCOM, DMU, and PCOM, I'd have no DO school to go to...but 7 other schools thought I was just fine, and I was offered interviews pretty much the day after I submitted each 2ndary even though I had no DO LOR.

 

[drizzt3117]

Why would anyone with a 3.8 do an SMP?

she had low MCAT, but she said she regretted doing it now.

 

[Just Joshin]

she had low MCAT, but she said she regretted doing it now.

How low could her MCAT have been to justify an SMP with a 3.8? Did she get in somewhere this year?

 

[drizzt3117]

How low could her MCAT have been to justify an SMP with a 3.8? Did she get in somewhere this year?

I believe she got into some DO schools. I don't really know the situation that much except for what I read in the thread. You can check out the postbac forum, I believe she posts in the Midwestern-AZ SMP thread.

 

[stud247]

If you're talking about rennykim I believe she had a 3.8 cGPA going in.

It's obvious that SMP is not designed for someone with a 3.8. If her mcat was <30, then that should have been something to work on if she wanted MD. But if her mcat was >=30, I cannot explain why she would get rejected whether she had done smp or not. Average admitted student at m.d. schools has 3.5 and 30 and that includes all the people competing for the elite schools. My gpa is at least 1 std below that, so that explains my problem. But if both your gpa and mcat are >=average, it is just very rare to get rejected everywhere.
But do you think the people in charge of georgetown(and cincinnati and any other program that puts out favorable stats) are lying? Or how about the students posting on the postbac forums and claiming how the smp helped them so much (of course most of them have >30mcat and <3.4 gpa)?

 

[stud247]

You're pretty confident for someone with 0 acceptances. Just a word of advice: your presumed guaranteed acceptance to DO is laughable. I had better stats than you and was summarily rejected from some schools.

Really what stats? And you got rejected everywhere you applied?

 

[stud247]

Nope, my friends got interviews at GW and nowhere else, hardly any love this cycle at all from MD schools. They also had pretty decent (acceptable) profiles before doing the SMP, 3.65/30ish.



because there are hardly any residencies in radiology and they often go to those with multiple GMOs under their belt.

Again, I don't see why someone with above avg GPA would be doing a SMP program. I bet a very small % of people with 3.65/30 get rejected everywhere even if their EC's are weak. But obviously the thing to improve are EC's or mcat.

I looked up more info on the military. It is true they don't have many residencies. But I believe the army allows you to defer(to do a civilian residency), while the navy would make you do a GMO (and then make it easier for you to get a military residency). I am not sure which service I would prefer and not sure about the specialty, but it is likely that if I don't have the stats to match into a competitive specialty, I'll just go for a lesser specialty. I don't want to be "free" when I am 40+. But I definitely want to get a stipend while in school so I could at least be partially free.

 

[stud247]

she had low MCAT, but she said she regretted doing it now.

Well I regret not applying to DO schools last cycle. I could've been a med student this fall, with a stipend.

 

[stud247]

You also have a really high MCAT score, so I'm not sure why you feel you'd end up in a different situtaion than I. DMU, PCOM and CCOM all rejected me without interview. CCOM--probably based on my awful 2ndary essay (I was burnt out and knew it). DMU b/c of my GPA. PCOM sent me a letter complaining that I didn't have a DO LOR. However, every other DO school I applied to I got an interview and accepted. You're welcome to PM me about any questions.

As soon as you posted this comment about me and my MD apps, someone decided it was a good opportunity to call me an arrogant jerk, as if I were bragging by being factual on my MD apps...sheesh. They told me Keck took me b/c they felt back for "my old ass" as if schools took people b/c they felt sorry for them ...sad that some people have time on their hands to try and make up for their own feelings of insecurities by saying such snarky junk.

Point being, there's a reason there are 4.0 applicants w/ good MCAT scores who are rejected--they have bad personalities and bad attitudes and it comes across in essays, interviews, and LOR's.--while those w/ a 3.3 GPA can and do get in. If you have a 3.3 you can be on the other end of that spectrum if you prove that you have a great personality, attitude, and aptitude for medicine...and the MCAT and your undergrad GPA won't be as good a measure of that (in my opinion) as some strong LOR's from respected physicians who have seen you interact w/ patients who have trusted you and for whom you have expressed care *and* scientific understanding/interest in their illness. Those people know more about medicine than any bio or chem teacher, and their LOR's can be obtained without paying all those $ for an SMP.

While I don't think everybody w/ your stats can just walk into a D.O. program, I think you'd be pretty secure if you convinced them you had good intentions and applied broadly across DO schools. Obviously, if I'd applied only to CCOM, DMU, and PCOM, I'd have no DO school to go to...but 7 other schools thought I was just fine, and I was offered interviews pretty much the day after I submitted each 2ndary even though I had no DO LOR.

I don't know why someone would find your comments arrogant. But I don't think your application was very successful. You had higher mcat than most of the schools averages on your list, and you had 3 years of research. Of course USC is elite... But because schools like NYMC and SUNY rejected you I am applying to DO schools as well. I don't think an average med student, adcom, or professor has a better personality than an average person. They are ambitious and that is not correlated with a good personality. There are med student serial killers and there are med school professors who appear on dateline "to catch a predator" show. I intend to shadow a DO and get a lor before the end of the summer. But if I have to go to a DO school, I wouldn't know if Nova, PCOM, DMU, or Lecom-B is best for me. I guess I'd have to get my acceptances first.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

I don't know why someone would find your comments arrogant. But I don't think your application was very successful. You had higher mcat than most of the schools averages on your list, and you had 3 years of research. Of course USC is elite... But because schools like NYMC and SUNY rejected you I am applying to DO schools as well. I don't think an average med student, adcom, or professor has a better personality than an average person. They are ambitious and that is not correlated with a good personality. There are med student serial killers and there are med school professors who appear on dateline "to catch a predator" show. I intend to shadow a DO and get a lor before the end of the summer. But if I have to go to a DO school, I wouldn't know if Nova, PCOM, DMU, or Lecom-B is best for me. I guess I'd have to get my acceptances first.

Dude, your personality has epic fail written all over it. What this application cycle should have done was make you more humble.

 

[MilkmanAl]

So you're not only assuming acceptance but assuming scholarships? Oh yeah, I'm sure any school would be absolutely thrilled to have you and your 3.0 2nd-semester SMP GPA. It's astounding you've had trouble getting in this year. 🙄

 

[stud247]

So you're not only assuming acceptance but assuming scholarships? Oh yeah, I'm sure any school would be absolutely thrilled to have you and your 3.0 2nd-semester SMP GPA. It's astounding you've had trouble getting in this year. 🙄

Reading comprehension challenged? I'll get a stipend from the army. They give it to everyone because long-term they make money off med students. But short-term, I will live more comfortably during med school and residency than otherwise.

 

[stud247]

Dude, your personality has epic fail written all over it. What this application cycle should have done was make you more humble.

Are you also a tall dreamy doc? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYArtdX2Kv0 hahaha never even gotten a traffic ticket.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I guess assuming you'll get the Army scholarship is, in fact, a safe assumption. Still, it isn't at all surprising to me that you haven't had any success if the attitude you've presented here is the same one you showed to med schools. At least stow the apathy and arrogance for after you've matriculated. Everybody else manages.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

OP will be lucky to get into any school, DO, MD, or Carribean.

 

[drizzt3117]

Again, I don't see why someone with above avg GPA would be doing a SMP program. I bet a very small % of people with 3.65/30 get rejected everywhere even if their EC's are weak. But obviously the thing to improve are EC's or mcat.

Well you would be wrong because the average applicant GPA is 3.5/28 and more than half of applicants are rejected.

I looked up more info on the military. It is true they don't have many residencies. But I believe the army allows you to defer(to do a civilian residency), while the navy would make you do a GMO (and then make it easier for you to get a military residency). I am not sure which service I would prefer and not sure about the specialty, but it is likely that if I don't have the stats to match into a competitive specialty, I'll just go for a lesser specialty. I don't want to be "free" when I am 40+. But I definitely want to get a stipend while in school so I could at least be partially free.

I think the military option makes some sense if you attend a very expensive school (especially some DO schools) but you're probably still not going to come out ahead economically unless you end up going into FP. The main thing isn't the economics as much as your desire to enter the military. If it's something you WANT to do then by all means.

 

[stud247]

Well you would be wrong because the average applicant GPA is 3.5/28 and more than half of applicants are rejected.



I think the military option makes some sense if you attend a very expensive school (especially some DO schools) but you're probably still not going to come out ahead economically unless you end up going into FP. The main thing isn't the economics as much as your desire to enter the military. If it's something you WANT to do then by all means.

Please, you are twisting all the statistics(even though your numbers are right). In MSAR there is clearly a graph which indicates that there are more applicants accepted than rejected with a sGPA of 3.50. Accepted applicants exceed non-accepted at a total score of 28. If you take individual schools- in my state(state schools) have avg of 3.65 and 31 for accepted applicants, but lower for matriculants.

I think it is great that the students are offered this military option.