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DO shadowing

Started by vividvirgo
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vividvirgo

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For those of you who have shadowed or are shadowing a DO, how did you get the opportunity? I live in nyc and am in the process of contacting numerous DO offices to try and shadow but its become a very difficult task. On several occasions I've come across receptionists who were very rude and would say flat out that shadowing was not a possibility, without even asking the physicians themselves. Its become very frustrating for me. Anybody have any advice? TIA
 
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I'm also in NYC looking for a DO to shadow! I've had no luck and even had one receptionist hang up on me when I asked about shadowing. I signed up for the mentor website, but none of the NYC DOs are listed as wanting face-to-face mentees. I don't have any advice for you, but I definitely feel your pain!
 
There are no "guarantees" in medicine. However, these are all D.O.s that signed up saying they would be willing to have pre-med students shadow them.

Just remember, it is the summer, which is the worst time to find shadowing oppurtunities (every pre-med is trying to find a doctor now with their summer free). In your shoes, I'd wait till the fall and search then as you are going to get blown off a lot now. Either that or be persistent and patient.

vividvirgo said:
Are you guaranteed to find a DO to mentor through this program?
Click to expand...
 
Maybe probe the local DO schools..sometimes admissions committees are pretty helpful.
 
vividvirgo said:
Are you guaranteed to find a DO to mentor through this program?
Click to expand...

There are no guarentee's as msspeedwagon mentioned, but I have to tell you, it was the most resourceful thing I could have when I was looking for someone to shadow. I was actually able to shadow a rheumatologist and a well-known cardiologist in my area through that program, and I can definitely say that it was very insightful. Though I haven't had anyone from the operating room (surgeons, anesthesiologists, etc.) contact me through that website which is a little unfortunate.
 
TurtleGirl said:
I'm also in NYC looking for a DO to shadow! I've had no luck and even had one receptionist hang up on me when I asked about shadowing. I signed up for the mentor website, but none of the NYC DOs are listed as wanting face-to-face mentees. I don't have any advice for you, but I definitely feel your pain!
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Its interesting. Some DO schools want you to shadow a DO as a requirement for entrance but if no DO is willing to help you than how are you supposed to get that experience? I work with two MD's and just feel like getting LORS from them instead of a DO since it would be so much easier for me.
 
Do a search here for an SDN user "Chocolate Bear." I believe he has a sticky addressing which schools require DO letters and which would allow you to use MD letters instead. Honestly, in your shoes, I would just apply to schools that accept MD letters in place of DO letters (unless there is a particular school that you have your heart set on that requires a DO letter).

Edit: Since I looked it up, here is the link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkQjgkrQwlmCdDdPRG15djh5NGJfRFhoVWdLdVJIaFE&hl=en.

Of your list below only LECOM absolutely requires it (the LECOM-Brandenton is actually one of the schools I'm most interested in, as well as PCOM - Georgia (but no one really asked me))


vividvirgo said:
Its interesting. Some DO schools want you to shadow a DO as a requirement for entrance but if no DO is willing to help you than how are you supposed to get that experience? I work with two MD's and just feel like getting LORS from them instead of a DO since it would be so much easier for me.
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mspeedwagon said:
Do a search here for an SDN user "Chocolate Bear." I believe he has a sticky addressing which schools require DO letters and which would allow you to use MD letters. Honestly, in your shoes, I would just apply to schools that accept MD letters in place of DO letters (unless there is a particular school that you have your heart set on that requires a DO letter).
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Thanks. PCOM, LECOM, and TOURO-COM were a few schools I had in mind.
 
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so...would it be too late in the cycle to start shadowing now? would that be very looked down by schools, or is just the fact that you get a DO letter outweigh any negatives?
 
vividvirgo said:
Are you guaranteed to find a DO to mentor through this program?
Click to expand...

I tried this early last year when I was looking for DOs to shadow and half the doctors on the list had either retired or moved. I never did find a physician to shadow through that program - but I did ultimately have some luck with simply Googling "osteopathic physicians" + "my hometown" and calling/writing DOs on the list until a couple agreed to let me shadow.

It was laborious, but it worked.
 
It is NEVER too late to start shadowing. I had to re-apply this past cycle and in my experience, the doctors had my letter ready for me in a matter of 2-4 weeks. So even if you shadow in August, you won't even be sending some secondaries in until then anyway. Last year I shadow someone in July and got all of my stuff in in very good time.

As far as finding one to shadow, I lucked out in some regards because the first one I shadowed worked in the same building as a good friend's father, so she set me up with him. The second one was a pediatrician in a clinic where I volunteered for a year, so the director set me up with him.

If you aren't so lucky to have those connections, here are some of my suggestions:
1. Try the websites given because those physicians have volunteered themselves to be on there and should be willing to take you on. They have been in your shoes- they know it takes a letter to apply.
2. My advisor was always super helpful. She had TONS of contacts of physicians to shadow, both MDs and DOs. That is part of their job, but not all advisors are as awesome as mine was.
3. At one point, I got so desperate I actually just mailed out letters to offices explaining my situation and I got a few bites from doing that.
4. Ask any friends you know who have any connections- parents that are doctors, nurses, PAs etc. See if they have a DO in their office or hospital that they could talk to. Having connections almost always gets you in the door!
5. For those looking at shadowing now in preparation for another cycle...try to volunteer like I did in a setting with a DO. It lets them see your commitment to the field and you get to know them slowly, not just in a shadowing setting. The pediatrics/prenatal clinic I volunteered at was for Medicaid/uninsured patients, so they got a lot of patients that some doctors wouldn't want to serve. The doctor really took note of my ability to work with these people + my willingness to do the grunt work around the office while volunteering which = one FANTASTIC letter of recommendation.

Just remember- all these doctors probably had to get a LOR too, so don't feel bad asking. Good luck everyone!
 
Hm. I also live in NYC and you guys are making this sound---well, not so promising. Haha. Doesn't matter---I will hope to find someone anyway.
 
We have very few DO's in my area, so I contacted my state osteopathic association and asked if they could give me contact info for local DO's. They gave me the info to contact a highly respected cardiologist and said he liked students, so I emailed him. It took 2 tries to get a response. I don't know what happened to the first email - maybe junk mail. He finally replied and told me to schedule a time with his NP's. I then met with him and it went really well, although at first it almost felt like an interview. The hardest part was getting in touch with his NP's to schedule the time. Now that I've been given the "OK" to shadow, I'm still having trouble setting it up because the NP's are always busy when I call. But I'm going to be persistent.

I tried the mentor website and had no luck.
 
Keep in mind that you may have to shadow a number of docs before one actually writes you a letter. I worked with 2 DOs and while the shadowing experiences I had with them were good, neither one wanted to write a letter when push came to shove. Ultimately I did get a letter from an MD, but not having a DO letter really limited my options later on. It was quite frustrating.
 
I contacted the volunteer office of my local hospital and asked if they could help set me up with a D.O. to shadow. They were quick to reply with a list of contacts. I also had luck with the AOA iMentor program, but I had to contact about 15 mentors before I found one that would let me in. Just be persistent, and you'll find a D.O. to shadow.
 
When you guys shadowed...did you need to have recent medical forms and PPDs and all that stuff? Just wondering if I should get those now. If I'm shadowing say a small private practice as opposed to a big hospital, would I still need the medical forms? Thanks!
 
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ciruelo said:
When you guys shadowed...did you need to have recent medical forms and PPDs and all that stuff? Just wondering if I should get those now. If I'm shadowing say a small private practice as opposed to a big hospital, would I still need the medical forms? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I didn't, but for the one that was at my volunteer site it had been required for me to even volunteer so they knew I was clear. A small private practice would unlikely ask you to do so...I think that is really a major concern in the hospital setting where you are dealing with immunocompromised patients. However, in your initial request, you could definitely mention that you have had a recent skin test and all that so they know you are prepared and ready to go. Couldn't hurt anything.
 
vividvirgo said:
For those of you who have shadowed or are shadowing a DO, how did you get the opportunity? I live in nyc and am in the process of contacting numerous DO offices to try and shadow but its become a very difficult task. On several occasions I've come across receptionists who were very rude and would say flat out that shadowing was not a possibility, without even asking the physicians themselves. Its become very frustrating for me. Anybody have any advice? TIA
Click to expand...

It really is hard to find medical practitioners to shadow, be it DO or MD. At first I did try calling up the hospitals and clinics in my locality but they all asked if I was a medical student. Upon saying NO, I was told no doctors in their hospitals allowed students to shadow them. It was very annoying and disappointing. As luck would have it, I have a cousin working as a CRNA in one of the same hospitals that told me they do not accept students to shadow. She linked me with an couple of Anesthesiologists, one a DO, and the other an MD! Both are writing LORs. Although, it was short, I did enjoy being in the OR, got to see a lot of cool surgeries.



ciruelo said:
When you guys shadowed...did you need to have recent medical forms and PPDs and all that stuff? Just wondering if I should get those now. If I'm shadowing say a small private practice as opposed to a big hospital, would I still need the medical forms? Thanks!
Click to expand...

The doctors I shadowed needed my medical records, in order to ensure I was "fit" to shadow withing the hospital. I believe it was part of the hospital's policy. Good luck!
 
I signed up for the AOA program and have already been contacted by two DO's so far. Hopefully I will be able to shadow one of them.

Bacchus said:
If you go to Barnabas' website there should be a lot of DOs. I believe NYCOM is affiliated with that hospital. You should be able to find a DO there to help you out, hopefully.
Click to expand...

This actually sounds like a good idea seeing that I'm not too far from this hospital. I will definitely look into this. Thanks to everyone for the useful advice and tips. I really appreciate it.
 
I didn't have any luck with the AOA website either. Basically no one is still active. I've contacted several, but no response. And my PCP (who is a DO) doesn't want to help.
 
maybe they know someone whom IS willing to help?

I was fortunate enough to land a position on my first try...we'll see how it goes.

Cold calling for shadowing sucks, and more often than not, produces no results. The receptionist/doc has no impetus for accomodating you, let alone receiving your request.

If I were still looking, I would call/show up to make an appointment to discuss your interest in the profession-you know, get your foot in the door. Once you have some face time and get a good vibe from the doc, ask to shadow. Sometimes you have to court your victims 😀
 
Getting a DO shadow is really hard. I used the DO-Online site and the "mentors" their are too busy to reply.

I actually got accepted by one but she refuses to reply to my emails. I even called the toll free number DO-Online has on their website and the person in charge of matching mentors w/mentees, never returned my phone call.

The only option left is to volunteer at a hospital. Some hospitals will give you a LOR after completing certain hours and the experience will bring you face to face with MD and DO doctors which will give you the opportunity to ask for a shadow or to ask the administrator in charge of volunteer services to inquiry on your behave.
 
I sent 8 DO's(One using the wrong Doc's name, Crapppp) in my area requesting shadowing last night around 9 PM. I have already two replies(Orthopedic and Card surgeons) who are happy to let me shadow.

What did y'all put in the text boxes when you sent them mentor requests?

:idea:
 
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My PCP has already said no, he is not willing to put me in contact with someone willing to help (he says he is the only one, I think he is in his own little world since there are DOs around here. I think he is still ticked that he went DO instead of being a vet like he wanted to. Actually he is the only one of my docs who isn't even giving me encouragement.)

As for what I put in the mentor request, it is along these lines "Hello Dr. XXX, My name is XXX XXX and I'm a post-bacc student at XXX in their Premedical Studies program. (My undergrad was in XXX from XXX and my masters was in XXX from XXX.) I'm interested in learning more about osteopathic medicine and I'm very happy I found this mentor list. I was wondering if you could give me some advice even if it is just via email or allow me to shadow you for a day or two? It would really mean a lot to me." Then I usually give them a sentence about how I am interested in their specialty (which I almost always request someone in primary care which I am seriously considering). If they are listed as doing OMM, I ask a question about it. Then I thank them and sign my name and hit send. Not a single one has so far even responded. I'm running out of DOs to ask.
 
Try resending the emails. If you were outright rejected, that would be a different story. But no response doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of willingness to take you on.

Somewhat related:

when I was looking for a lab to volunteer in, the PI only responded to my email after the second go around. She sounded accomodating and said that she would get back to me with some possible tasks I could do in the lab. Two weeks later, no response. I emailed her again reiterating my interest and asking if there were any tasks I could help her with in the lab (without mentioning that SHE already said that SHE would be the one to contact me about it). She eventually gave me a spot but I declined b/c I had found another lab :laugh:.

Point is, you have to be tactfully persistent since shadowing is a favour...the doc's really get nothing out of it except a warm fuzzy feeling (which apparently doesn't move very many peeps from what I read).
 
At this point, I am going to probably give up on DO shadowing. It is preferred but not required for GA-PCOM where I will be applying. I have hit almost every DO within a 2 hour drive of me which means I would have to extend to 3 hour drive. It's an interesting contrast to the MDs where they are mostly thrilled to help (I have over 55 hours over three specialties, one wrote a letter for me, another purchased ME a gift which I have to pick up next time I shadow him, only the last was a prick).

At least I don't have to worry about research. 9 years of research, mostly paid. In my experience, PI's tend to be very happy to get access to students who want to do research for them. You just have to know which departments to ask in. 🙂 If you are still looking, try Biological Anthropology.
 
It just seems as if most DO's are too busy to respond to most students and it really is a difficult task trying to shadow one. Your best bet would be to only apply to DO schools that don't require a DO LOR.
 
vividvirgo said:
For those of you who have shadowed or are shadowing a DO, how did you get the opportunity? I live in nyc and am in the process of contacting numerous DO offices to try and shadow but its become a very difficult task. On several occasions I've come across receptionists who were very rude and would say flat out that shadowing was not a possibility, without even asking the physicians themselves. Its become very frustrating for me. Anybody have any advice? TIA
Click to expand...

It was very difficult for me to find a DO physician to write a LOR for me. It took me forever.
 
I have three shadows now(PCP, Card surgeon, Orthopaedic Surgeon). :meanie:

How did you guys get a letter out of them anyways?
 
Also, when would be an ideal time to shadow a DO if given the opportunity? Should you do this when you're a senior (I'm a sophomore btw)?
 
In my case, I've known my DO for about two years (on and off) and will be shadowing them this summer. Since I've known them for so long, I'll shadow long enough to get a good idea of the DO's daily grind and then ask for a LOR (max 25 hours).

If I were shadowing from scratch (no prior exposure to DO), I would shadow as early as possible so that the LOR can be as personalized as possible. Of course, you can get a letter in as little as 1-2 visits. But to maximize the potentency of your letter (and compensate for academic weaknesses if any), I feel the LOR must be intimate. And it takes time to develop this kind of relatioship with a referee, DO or not.

Start early-you lose little but have the potential to gain a lot.

just my $0.02
 
NYCOM also doesn't require shadowing/a DO letter (I didn't have one), but NYCOM is affiliated with TONS of hospitals in the New York metro area.

http://iris.nyit.edu/~NYCOMEC/ is a list of just a couple of their affiliated institutions in the NY/NJ area.
 
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ManUnderFire said:
In my case, I've known my DO for about two years (on and off) and will be shadowing them this summer. Since I've known them for so long, I'll shadow long enough to get a good idea of the DO's daily grind and then ask for a LOR (max 25 hours).

If I were shadowing from scratch (no prior exposure to DO), I would shadow as early as possible so that the LOR can be as personalized as possible. Of course, you can get a letter in as little as 1-2 visits. But to maximize the potentency of your letter (and compensate for academic weaknesses if any), I feel the LOR must be intimate. And it takes time to develop this kind of relatioship with a referee, DO or not.

Start early-you lose little but have the potential to gain a lot.

just my $0.02
Click to expand...

What should one expect from shadowing? I honestly haven't done much research into the subject, and have only begun to really get my act together in school(At about a cGPA 3.1 from 2.4 freshman year and sGPA of 2.9-3.0, dunno really. haha)

What are the better ways of asking and getting ready for a LOR?
 
KTownGT said:
What should one expect from shadowing? I honestly haven't done much research into the subject, and have only begun to really get my act together in school(At about a cGPA 3.1 from 2.4 freshman year and sGPA of 2.9-3.0, dunno really. haha)

What are the better ways of asking and getting ready for a LOR?
Click to expand...

I've yet to shadow a DO, but I'll explain my experience with a chiropractor.

Getting an LOR is like trying to land a date with an acquietance. Always put your best foot forward...it helps if you're naturally a ppl/happy go lucky person. If not, become one. Spend enough time with the DO until you feel they have seen the best of you. From my experience, this can take as little as 4-5 exposures.

Your initial visits with your LOR writer should demonstrate your passion, inquisitiveness in the profession as a whole but also in what that specific DO does (how long practicing, motivations, philosophy, etc). Hopefully, this part comes naturally as I wouldn't recommend faking interest. Now that you've laid the groundwork, start talking about yourself more (interests in the profession, what you're studying, any acheivements big or small, etc). You have to make it seem (again, helps if it comes naturally) as though your shadowing is contributing to your desire to become a DO. It most likely will anyway (I hope). When you've become comfortable enough with your referee that your level of communication is more along the lines of a favourite uncle/aunt (very intimate but still respectful), that is the time to ask for an LOR. It's impossible to say when that time will come, but be patient. Of course, you can always get a letter before that point and a good one at that, but it will never be as personalized.

That's been my experience so do take my 'advice' with a hulk-like, huge a*s grain of salt.

Best of luck and I urge you to see the experience as an opportunity to become a better/more informed person and not just a LOR factory.
 
ManUnderFire said:
I've yet to shadow a DO, but I'll explain my experience with a chiropractor.

Getting an LOR is like trying to land a date with an acquietance. Always put your best foot forward...it helps if you're naturally a ppl/happy go lucky person. If not, become one. Spend enough time with the DO until you feel they have seen the best of you. From my experience, this can take as little as 4-5 exposures.

Your initial visits with your LOR writer should demonstrate your passion, inquisitiveness in the profession as a whole but also in what that specific DO does (how long practicing, motivations, philosophy, etc). Hopefully, this part comes naturally as I wouldn't recommend faking interest. Now that you've laid the groundwork, start talking about yourself more (interests in the profession, what you're studying, any acheivements big or small, etc). You have to make it seem (again, helps if it comes naturally) as though your shadowing is contributing to your desire to become a DO. It most likely will anyway (I hope). When you've become comfortable enough with your referee that your level of communication is more along the lines of a favourite uncle/aunt (very intimate but still respectful), that is the time to ask for an LOR. It's impossible to say when that time will come, but be patient. Of course, you can always get a letter before that point and a good one at that, but it will never be as personalized.

That's been my experience so do take my 'advice' with a hulk-like, huge a*s grain of salt.

Best of luck and I urge you to see the experience as an opportunity to become a better/more informed person and not just a LOR factory.
Click to expand...

Woah thanks man.

Yea, I have an interview or "visit" with the Cardiovascular surgeon tomorrow at 2:30. I'm going to start looking over the circulatory system and basic anatomy so I'm a little bit more brushed up.

That's true a well educated man can smell BS a mile away. I hope I can get a LOR from him. He has like 10 abbreviations after his name, is in an interesting specialty, and on top of all that he's one of the head guys for surgery at a "local" DO school. 👍
 
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