DO students do not take notes on rotations, have no patient experience.

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Turq

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DO schools also use nurses to teach students.

FROM
Rotations suck......not learn anything
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=986592

Even SGU has excellent rotation sites where students take notes

http://www.sgu.edu/school-of-medicine/affiliated-hospitals.html

Ross University always requires students to document patient care:

http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/aicm/Preparing-for-Miami.cfm

As you begin your clinical experience in medicine, you will be required to document a number of aspects of patient care. The modules and assignments that are part of 5th semester will further familiarize you with this important aspect of your clinical experience. These initial assignments are designed to introduce the level of information that you must obtain of patients. It is highly beneficial to become proficient in medical documentation as you progress in your clinical rotations.
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Turq said:
DO schools also use nurses to teach students.

FROM
Rotations suck......not learn anything
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=986592

Even SGU has excellent rotation sites where students take notes

http://www.sgu.edu/school-of-medicine/affiliated-hospitals.html

Ross University always requires students to document patient care:

http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/aicm/Preparing-for-Miami.cfm

As you begin your clinical experience in medicine, you will be required to document a number of aspects of patient care. The modules and assignments that are part of 5th semester will further familiarize you with this important aspect of your clinical experience. These initial assignments are designed to introduce the level of information that you must obtain of patients. It is highly beneficial to become proficient in medical documentation as you progress in your clinical rotations.
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"taking notes" and "writing a note" are entirely different. :smack:
 
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1 guy had problems = represents all DO students experiences. Trust the OP. Guy knows his stuff.
 
Solid information. Clearly the only solution is to head to the Caribbean. :lol:
 
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Why not just go MD? It's better anyway. Srs...



Not srs. Weak attempt to turn into an MD vs DO thread.
 
Seriously man? There are days where my attending just consigns the notes I wrote, without changes...
 
Caribbean schools getting desperate nowadays.
 
Ravizzle said:
Can I join you? Do these schools give group discount?

Sent from my Galaxy S2
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I think so, only to groups of students who pay for their diploma up front though..... Lets get some people together.

For a second though, lettuce beef cereal....do these carib reps EVER sway anyone into dropping a couple hundred K for their MD with threads like this? Come on.....
 
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turq said:
do schools also use nurses to teach students.

from
rotations suck......not learn anything
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=986592

even sgu has excellent rotation sites where students take notes

http://www.sgu.edu/school-of-medicine/affiliated-hospitals.html

ross university always requires students to document patient care:

http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/aicm/preparing-for-miami.cfm

as you begin your clinical experience in medicine, you will be required to document a number of aspects of patient care. The modules and assignments that are part of 5th semester will further familiarize you with this important aspect of your clinical experience. These initial assignments are designed to introduce the level of information that you must obtain of patients. It is highly beneficial to become proficient in medical documentation as you progress in your clinical rotations.
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shhhhhh dude you are going to let everyone know that do school is easy!!!
 
is this a sad attempt to advertise for carribean schools?? I mean I would goto a carribean school if the average stats weren't 35T and 3.9gpa..I heard they all go derm/plastics.
 
gmcguitar4 said:
is this a sad attempt to advertise for carribean schools?? I mean I would goto a carribean school if the average stats weren't 35T and 3.9gpa..I heard they all go derm/plastics.
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"Carribean"
 
u wot?

this isn't even a subtle attempt

whoever is paying you is wasting their f****** money
 
Ost3oclast said:
To the islands I go!!!!
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The sad thing, the rotation experience will end up being much worse :scared:

Although...there are a lot of DO schools with good rotation experiences. I only have one example(friend who goes to Nova), but it sounds legit :cool:

Also, the links the OP posted doesn't tell us about the high quality experience and learning you get. Sure there are hospitals that US med students also rotate in, which if the Caribbean students are integrated with them, work out alright.
 
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And you know that afterward the guy went and rotated with one of the best surgeons in the state though right? He openly admitted that he gained a lot from getting that experience.

Anyway, what the hell is it with all of these Caribbean MDs posting anti-DO threads? Don't they know that table 6 is waiting for their bread?
 
They are located closer to the beach than most DO schools... Your attempt to advertise these carib schools is lame.
 
Pre osteopathic posters seem to think this is a joke, but there is some very serious discussion about this issue going on in the osteopathic thread.
 
user3 said:
Pre osteopathic posters seem to think this is a joke, but there is some very serious discussion about this issue going on in the osteopathic thread.
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Yeah, based on ONE student's experience from ONE hospital. Maybe his/her attendings or residents sucked for those few weeks. I seriously doubt it even reflects the entire hospital. And if it does, tough it up and do something about it. Rotations are all about the work that YOU put into them. If the OP from that thread was motivated and wanted to do a note, he/she could have. It's about the drive, willingless to learn, putting in the drive.
 
calvinhobbes said:
Yeah, based on ONE student's experience from ONE hospital. Maybe his/her attendings or residents sucked for those few weeks. I seriously doubt it even reflects the entire hospital. And if it does, tough it up and do something about it. Rotations are all about the work that YOU put into them. If the OP from that thread was motivated and wanted to do a note, he/she could have. It's about the drive, willingless to learn, putting in the drive.
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Wait you haven't begun rotations yet and are telling us what they are like? As one of the students who is quoted on some of these threads, I can tell you it is not just me and not just this other student who had crappy rotation experiences. Being blind to it is not helping anyone. It is by airing this dirty laundry that things can improve. If we sit here and pretend everything is great and our experience is just as good as MD students, we are selling ourselves short.
 
sylvanthus said:
Wait you haven't begun rotations yet and are telling us what they are like? As one of the students who is quoted on some of these threads, I can tell you it is not just me and not just this other student who had crappy rotation experiences. Being blind to it is not helping anyone. It is by airing this dirty laundry that things can improve. If we sit here and pretend everything is great and our experience is just as good as MD students, we are selling ourselves short.
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Good point. If this issue is known and it's a particular hospital many students have problems with, than the school needs to know and the issue needs to be addressed. Good luck.
 
I'm a former DO student who had GREAT rotations, attentive attendings and wrote plenty of notes during medical school. I guess my singular example serves to negate the OP's in the other thread and we can all be happy now...

Survivor DO
 
user3 said:
Pre osteopathic posters seem to think this is a joke, but there is some very serious discussion about this issue going on in the osteopathic thread.
Click to expand...

The topic at hand in the Osteo forum evolved from one student's experience into a "big picture" discussion...this specific thread however, IS a joke, as it began as an obvious troll job/carib marketing ploy.
 
sylvanthus said:
Wait you haven't begun rotations yet and are telling us what they are like? As one of the students who is quoted on some of these threads, I can tell you it is not just me and not just this other student who had crappy rotation experiences. Being blind to it is not helping anyone. It is by airing this dirty laundry that things can improve. If we sit here and pretend everything is great and our experience is just as good as MD students, we are selling ourselves short.
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You also then had an amazing surgery rotation that taught you a lot. Does that not change things?
 
Call me when multiple anecdotes come out, or more specifically, call me when they come out about my school.
 
Another high quality DO VS MD thread. What are they going to do in 10 years when that bias is gone, DO schools are much more competitive and IMGs have no shot at any residency? Make the claim MDs make more money then DOs?
 
I think my clinical rotations were fine except for peds. My peds was out patient only. Everything else was at a Hospital that had a residency in the field I was rotating in, and I was rotating with MD kids on 8/11 of my 3rd year rotations. I do agree that electronic medical records messed things up a little bit for my class. EMR isn't sent up for medical students.
 
WorldChanger36 said:
Another high quality DO VS MD thread. What are they going to do in 10 years when that bias is gone, DO schools are much more competitive and IMGs have no shot at any residency? Make the claim MDs make more money then DOs?
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Bias won't be gone in 10 years.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 
Is it bad that I hope all these threads sink in to some people so that I have less competition come June?
 
Mr Kenobi said:
^^ His at least.
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d49.png
 
One of our best local sites (Lankenau) from what I last heard, does not let you modify the chart, meaning you do not document your encounters unless you write them down and toss them at the end of the day.

This is hospital policy, not school policy.

I did 2 rotations at Lehigh Valley (Arguably one of the best hospital systems outside Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) which did the same thing. We were not allowed to modify the chart and thus our outpatient notes were not used.
 
I wonder if the OP will ever respond, or did it drop that bomb only to cause mayhem :eek:

After all, he/she won't have any good logical reasons to back up it's claim.
 
Bacchus said:
One of our best local sites (Lankenau) from what I last heard, does not let you modify the chart, meaning you do not document your encounters unless you write them down and toss them at the end of the day.

This is hospital policy, not school policy.

I did 2 rotations at Lehigh Valley (Arguably one of the best hospital systems outside Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) which did the same thing. We were not allowed to modify the chart and thus our outpatient notes were not used.
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So basically what you're saying is that: person in referenced thread did not take any initiative.:thumbup:
 
I knew I made a mistake taking that spot at a DO school! This post has made up my mind, to SGU I go!!
 
Kahuku Monkey said:
I knew I made a mistake taking that spot at a DO school! This post has made up my mind, to SGU I go!!
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Atleast our school is close to Carib! We can both just hop on a cruise!

Sent from my Galaxy S2
 
The experiences will be highly variable, depending on school, students rotation selection, student initiative, etc.

Some hospitals simply will not let medical student write in the chart ... I think in one state, the state board of medicine prohibits hospitals from letting students (MD or DO) write in the chart (inpatient setting) ... Although I do not know if this is true, just a rumor, or my misunderstanding (new jersey)

I was fortunate to have an excellent clinical experience ... All my core rotations as a 3rd year student were at places that have acgme residency programs (except psych and peds). My core surgery rotation was at a large level one trauma center and I participated In a few trauma alerts. Definitely wrote my far share of surgery notes. My medicine rotation was at a large hospital with its owns acgme IM residency. I was expected to see, do the h&p, write daily progress notes, and present every single day ... And participate in overnight call (when the residents and students used to do 30 hr calls). My peds and psych rotations were split between inpatient and outpatient settings, and I worked with FM residents rotating on those rotations. And I didn't have to be proactive to get these experiences. A good school will offer these experiences by default. Now not all the rotation sites will be great or hands on, but the majority should be. With the rapid expands of DO schools (new schools and increase class size), sometimes I wonder if clinical education gets the short change. You can talk about modern lecture halls, pbl vs lecture based curriculum, free laptop vs sim lab, how awesome a match list is, etc. but clinical education is something that DO schools need to pay more attention to. And while students should be proactive, the school should at least help or make it easier.

But this issue is nothing compare to offshore MD schools. With so many students, a guarantee rotation in the US is not guaranteed. And you have to make sure all your rotations are green book approved else you run the risk of not being able to be licensed in some of the states. I have heard nightmare scenarios from former med students from the Big 3 with regards to last minute changes to their clinical rotation(ie., finding out that the medicine rotation will be done in a suburb of Chicago instead of NYC only a few days before the rotation is suppose to start, or being offer a peds rotation at a non green book rotation, with no other alternatives unless that student wants to wait, not enough spots for students to rotate through,etc)
 
I am holding a DO acceptance, and waiting on an MD waitlist...and am having such a tough time making a decision on what to do.

First, while the majority of md vs do threads are useless in nature, I think it's incredibly important that information (such as the OP's) is shared. Anytime anyone has anything negative to say about DO, so many automatically assume its a troll post.

My reservations about going DO have NOTHING to do with the DO initials behind a name. I have serious concerns with the unpredictable, and often poor quality of the clinical rotations offered by many (not all) DO schools. I can't imagine how frustrated I would feel watching my debt accumulate while being very unhappy with what my school has to offer.

I know people say that if you put work into picking your rotations, you can get ward-based, good preceptors etc. However, I am having a hard time understanding how this works logistically. You find rotations you want (at hospitals your DO school may or may not be affiliated with) and aggressively contact that hospital until they agree? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Maybe ill eat my words in the future, but the clinical curriculum of medical school is what I am most excited about. The idea of getting subpar experience just plan sucks.
 
neworleans8 said:
I am holding a DO acceptance, and waiting on an MD waitlist...and am having such a tough time making a decision on what to do.

First, while the majority of md vs do threads are useless in nature, I think it's incredibly important that information (such as the OP's) is shared. Anytime anyone has anything negative to say about DO, so many automatically assume its a troll post.

My reservations about going DO have NOTHING to do with the DO initials behind a name. I have serious concerns with the unpredictable, and often poor quality of the clinical rotations offered by many (not all) DO schools. I can't imagine how frustrated I would feel watching my debt accumulate while being very unhappy with what my school has to offer.

I know people say that if you put work into picking your rotations, you can get ward-based, good preceptors etc. However, I am having a hard time understanding how this works logistically. You find rotations you want (at hospitals your DO school may or may not be affiliated with) and aggressively contact that hospital until they agree? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Maybe ill eat my words in the future, but the clinical curriculum of medical school is what I am most excited about. The idea of getting subpar experience just plan sucks.
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If by OP you are referring to the person who started the thread in the Osteo forum...ok (but I saw more of a conversation taking place over there)

If by OP you are referring to the troll with 1 post that started this thread, then please explain what topic he introduced that is important....in this thread I observed an OP basically saying that students should go Caribbean because DO schools suck and then proceeded to advertise how great Carib schools are.
 
neworleans8 said:
I am holding a DO acceptance, and waiting on an MD waitlist...and am having such a tough time making a decision on what to do.

First, while the majority of md vs do threads are useless in nature, I think it's incredibly important that information (such as the OP's) is shared. Anytime anyone has anything negative to say about DO, so many automatically assume its a troll post.

My reservations about going DO have NOTHING to do with the DO initials behind a name. I have serious concerns with the unpredictable, and often poor quality of the clinical rotations offered by many (not all) DO schools. I can't imagine how frustrated I would feel watching my debt accumulate while being very unhappy with what my school has to offer.

I know people say that if you put work into picking your rotations, you can get ward-based, good preceptors etc. However, I am having a hard time understanding how this works logistically. You find rotations you want (at hospitals your DO school may or may not be affiliated with) and aggressively contact that hospital until they agree? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

Maybe ill eat my words in the future, but the clinical curriculum of medical school is what I am most excited about. The idea of getting subpar experience just plan sucks.
Click to expand...

The take home message is that not all DO schools are the same, just as not all MD schools are the same. There are a few MD schools where their clinical educational experiences are also subpar. You have to look at the individual school and their curriculum as well as their clinical affiliation. You can't make broad generalization about DO schools, just as you can't about MD schools.

I would like for pre medical students to start asking schools about the clinical education. Just like match list and complex pass rate, letting schools know that you view clinical education and opportunities as important factors in picking a school will motivate the schools to increase their effort in increasing the quality of clinical experience. If no one ask, then there is less pressure to improve these affiliations and experiences.
 
Ravizzle said:
Umm. Idk what you are thinking, but yes that is what I'm suggesting...:confused:

Sent from my Galaxy S2
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I thought you wanted to go on a cruise with me. ;) But you're right, we'll be as close as you get.
 
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