Do US pharmacists use the title 'doctor'

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ohh...quit your whining.. you wanna dish it out...then be able to take it..

If not, then go away.:idea:

curious about your screen name. did you find that zpack sucks because when you prescribed it, it had bad side-effects for your patients, or because physicians told you through directly or through journal articles that it had side-effects you didn't like?

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i never claimed to know much about the drug approval process nor about formularies.

but yet...

realysa said:
please, concede the fact that clinicians (md, phd, dds) are the prime movers
in doing the basic research of creating a new drug.
this is my point. pharms are not driving research. fda approval nor formulary acceptance was an issue for me. if clinicians don't prescribe it, then pharmacists won't put it on. it's not pharmacists put it on formulary, then clinicians prescribe it. i'm not talking about generics or drugs with similar action.

you really don't know shi+ about anything do you, pre-dental forum user, eh?
 
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your non-educated ass isn't worth my time...try google or better yet look at the Pfizer career guide

don't think pfizer hires top research candidates through the career guide. maybe they hire pharmD this way, so top PhD and MD have worker bees to order around.
 
curious about your screen name. did you find that zpack sucks because when you prescribed it, it had bad side-effects for your patients, or because physicians told you through directly or through journal articles that it had side-effects you didn't like?

Well, this is a topic you won't comprehend but here it is. Zpak (correct spelling) is a macrolide which can be useful in treating CAP.. because the most prevalent organism in CAP is Strep Pneumo ...which Zpak covers along with non-typicals like Mycoplasma..

Pfizer and some docs wanted it on the CAP pathway and protocol... but I said no. Because Doxycycline will do just fine in place of Zpak..and also much much cheaper.. Many physicians cried foul..

Also, Macrolide at Zpak concentration is bacteriostatic.. why would you use bacteriostatic drug on hospitalized patients...

Sorry to disappoint you.. But this is little more complex than you're little mind can comprehend.

hence...ZpackSux. I purposely used a typo.. not many have picked up on that.
 
i never claimed to know much about the drug approval process nor about formularies.

please, concede the fact that clinicians (md, phd, dds) are the prime movers
in doing the basic research of creating a new drug. this is my point. pharms are not driving research. fda approval nor formulary acceptance was an issue for me. if clinicians don't prescribe it, then pharmacists won't put it on. it's not pharmacists put it on formulary, then clinicians prescribe it. i'm not talking about generics or drugs with similar action.

Nope - I won't concede this. Some alumni from my school involved in drug development:

Mike Dudley '80 (Mpex Pharmaceuticals)
Mark Schaefer '85 (GlaxoSmithKliine)
Cathy Sohn '77 (GlaxoSmithKline)
Steve Barriere '73 (Theravance)
Grace Fong '71 (Aventis)
James Nickas '80 (Genentech)
Stephen Rossi '90 (Roche)
Brad Stolshek '86 (Amgen)
Ray Townsend '77 (Elan Pharmaceuticals)
Denise Dickson '79 (Lilly)
Alvin Wong '76 (Novacea)

Those are just some names from my school - there are lots and lots of others! There are 4 levels of research of a drug - some are in Stage I - some Stage IV - some in governmental affairs or bioethics.

Drug development is complex & requires a significant interaction of all participants - PhD, MD, DDS, etc....everyone - that is the point - we all must work well together. That same concept works on the clinical side as well. One profession is no better nor worse than the other - we are interdependent & our work together helps better our patients. This personal infighting only serves to diminsh ourselves & reflect poorly on us.

And yes....I do have a husband here...he's very happy:D Its only 9:30 here so we have a very long time left of our Friday night!;)
 
Well, this is a topic you won't comprehend but here it is. Zpak (correct spelling) is a macrolide which can be useful in treating CAP.. because the most prevalent organism in CAP is Strep Pneumo ...which Zpak covers along with non-typicals like Mycoplasma..

Pfizer and some docs wanted it on the CAP pathway and protocol... but I said no. Because Doxycycline will do just fine in place of Zpak..and also much much cheaper.. Many physicians cried foul..

Also, Macrolide at Zpak concentration is bacteriostatic.. why would you use bacteriostatic drug on hospitalized patients...

Sorry to disappoint you.. But this is little more complex than you're little mind can comprehend.

hence...ZpackSux. I purposely used a typo.. not many have picked up on that.

missed the sarcasm. you claim to use it, but don't comprehend it. should i explain. see, the suckiness of zpak, as you have explained wasn't found by pharmacists, but by phd and md. i am sure you about the suckiness from a journal article probably written by a pharmacist who used as a primary source an article written by clinicians. am i wrong?
 
Nope - I won't concede this. Some alumni from my school involved in drug development:

Mike Dudley '80 (Mpex Pharmaceuticals)
Mark Schaefer '85 (GlaxoSmithKliine)
Cathy Sohn '77 (GlaxoSmithKline)
Steve Barriere '73 (Theravance)
Grace Fong '71 (Aventis)
James Nickas '80 (Genentech)
Stephen Rossi '90 (Roche)
Brad Stolshek '86 (Amgen)
Ray Townsend '77 (Elan Pharmaceuticals)
Denise Dickson '79 (Lilly)
Alvin Wong '76 (Novacea)

Those are just some names from my school - there are lots and lots of others! There are 4 levels of research of a drug - some are in Stage I - some Stage IV - some in governmental affairs or bioethics.

Drug development is complex & requires a significant interaction of all participants - PhD, MD, DDS, etc....everyone - that is the point - we all must work well together. That same concept works on the clinical side as well. One profession is no better nor worse than the other - we are interdependent & our work together helps better our patients. This personal infighting only serves to diminsh ourselves & reflect poorly on us.

And yes....I do have a husband here...he's very happy:D Its only 9:30 here so we have a very long time left of our Friday night!;)

impressive list, until a list of md and phd is made of important figures in pharmacology.
 
missed the sarcasm. you claim to use it, but don't comprehend it. should i explain. see, the suckiness of zpak, as you have explained wasn't found by pharmacists, but by phd and md. i am sure you about the suckiness from a journal article probably written by a pharmacist who used as a primary source an article written by clinicians. am i wrong?

What if we all said YES - you win - none of us know anything! (Our egos are not dependent on your approval.)

Would that make you go away???????


Tell us....what will make you go back to the predental forum????
 
missed the sarcasm. you claim to use it, but don't comprehend it. should i explain. see, the suckiness of zpak, as you have explained wasn't found by pharmacists, but by phd and md. i am sure you about the suckiness from a journal article probably written by a pharmacist who used as a primary source an article written by clinicians. am i wrong?

yes, you're wrong.

It's a common knowledge that macrolide sucks. But the reason for my decision was driven by pharmcoeconomics published by a PharmD who's the director at a large PBM... who happens to be my roomie at pharmacy school..

Man..I'm so sorry I'm having to prove you wrong..one after another...
 
impressive list, until a list of md and phd is made of important figures in pharmacology.

mmm...are you an MD or PhD candidate? I didn't think so.. and with your GPA..if you want to call it that.. I doubt you will ever smell MD or PhD..

Oh..where are the important DDS figures in pharmacology?
 
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Nope - I won't concede this. Some alumni from my school involved in drug development:

Mike Dudley '80 (Mpex Pharmaceuticals)
Mark Schaefer '85 (GlaxoSmithKliine)
Cathy Sohn '77 (GlaxoSmithKline)
Steve Barriere '73 (Theravance)
Grace Fong '71 (Aventis)
James Nickas '80 (Genentech)
Stephen Rossi '90 (Roche)
Brad Stolshek '86 (Amgen)
Ray Townsend '77 (Elan Pharmaceuticals)
Denise Dickson '79 (Lilly)
Alvin Wong '76 (Novacea)

Those are just some names from my school - there are lots and lots of others! There are 4 levels of research of a drug - some are in Stage I - some Stage IV - some in governmental affairs or bioethics.

Drug development is complex & requires a significant interaction of all participants - PhD, MD, DDS, etc....everyone - that is the point - we all must work well together. That same concept works on the clinical side as well. One profession is no better nor worse than the other - we are interdependent & our work together helps better our patients. This personal infighting only serves to diminsh ourselves & reflect poorly on us.

And yes....I do have a husband here...he's very happy:D Its only 9:30 here so we have a very long time left of our Friday night!;)

please tell one important drug that was conceived by a pharmacist other than coca cola
 
mmm...are you an MD or PhD candidate? I didn't think so.. and with your GPA..if you want to call it that.. I doubt you will ever smell MD or PhD..

Oh..where are the important DDS figures in pharmacology?

oh, good come back!
 
Vick's Vapo Rub was invented by a druggist.. ok, now go away.:smuggrin:
 
mmm...are you an MD or PhD candidate? I didn't think so.. and with your GPA..if you want to call it that.. I doubt you will ever smell MD or PhD..

coming from a pharmacist really hurts. maybe i can get the graveyard pharmacist to recommend something, if not i'll get some goobers and tampons.
 
please tell one important drug that was conceived by a pharmacist other than coca cola

William Hind graduated from UCSF School of Pharmacy in 1939. He started his own lab to develop & manufacture ophthalmic products which were not available. He pioneered the development of viscosity products currently inn use in ophthalmics, did research & developed mydriatics & later was the first to develop lens wetting solutions when contact lens were made.

You just want one drug - atropine ophthalmic solution - researched, developed & marketed by Wm Hind.

Perhaps you've heard of his company: Barnes-Hind Pharmaceuticals.

He also holds the patent to the Lidoderm patch.....another drug - but you just asked for one.
 
coming from a pharmacist really hurts. maybe i can get the graveyard pharmacist to recommend something, if not i'll get some goobers and tampons.

Sorry about that..u're the one with 2.9 Science GPA.. now that hurts...LOL
 
William Hind graduated from UCSF School of Pharmacy in 1939. He started his own lab to develop & manufacture ophthalmic products which were not available. He pioneered the development of viscosity products currently inn use in ophthalmics, did research & developed mydriatics & later was the first to develop lens wetting solutions when contact lens were made.

You just want one drug - atropine ophthalmic solution - researched, developed & marketed by Wm Hind.

Perhaps you've heard of his company: Barnes-Hind Pharmaceuticals.

He also holds the patent to the Lidoderm patch.....another drug - but you just asked for one.

Damn... Sorry Realysa..I guess you gotta go. Bye..don't let the door hit you on your ass...:love:
 
Vick's Vapo Rub was invented by a druggist.. ok, now go away.:smuggrin:

you win! the combo of esoteric sarcasm and mind-numbing stupidity takes the day.

i wish you luck and may you never go back to retail pharmacy again. the drive through window is rather embarassing on the medical profession.

i'll definitely make it a point to call every pharmacist i meet a doctor, as a professional courtesy.
 
I would like to thank the audience for reading all these posts...

And I would also like to thank Realysa for showing us how not to behave as a healthcare professional.

:thumbup:
 
Damn... Sorry Realysa..I guess you gotta go. Bye..don't let the door hit you on your ass...:love:

one last thing. humanity must thank pharmacist hind for his work. what's viagra compared to atropine for the eye.
 
one last thing. humanity must thank pharmacist hind for his work. what's viagra compared to atropine for the eye.


Yes...because viagra was invented by a pre-doc... :smuggrin:
 
where's that "dropped-out" DDS clown going? :laugh:
 
There's a lot of troll feeding happening here.
kekekegay.gif
 
LOL... and with your attitude.. you'll be begging for customers...

MDs discover efficasious doses?? I like to think therapeutic doses of a new medication is not really "discovered" rather determined through clinical trials involving a team of reserchers including MD, PhD, PharmD, DDS... and also chiming in are some JDs...for legality.

Grasshopper..you have so much to learn.


Amen. Actually, MDs do very little drug research these days. Most of it is done by PhDs and MD-PhDs, PharmDs, PharmD-PhDs, and even vets and dentists with a medical research background. Very few MDs alone do any pharmacology research. Good call, Zpack!
 
Damn it, Jim, I'm a dentist NOT a doctor! :D :D

Now don't forget, kiddies, don't forget to brush those molars! I don't mean to belittle the practice of dentistry (for which you're not even a member yet), but what makes you think the DDS is superior to the PharmD?

Were you aware that in many states, PharmDs have some form of protocol to Rx independently? In fact, in NC, there's something called a CPP, clinical pharmacist practitioner, who like PAs and NPs, has a full range of prescriptive authority!

A pharmacist does not merely fill scripts. As an MD, I can't tell you how many times a pharmacist has saved my ass by calling and making sure I knew of a possible contraindication with another med the pt was taking or that the dose I prescribed was too large/small, etc. It happens. I'm never defensive and I'm thankful!

Likewise, if an MD or DDS or any other provider prescribes a med that is inappropriate, the pharmacist can not only refuse to fill it, but can also file a complaint with the state board of med/osteo/dentistry/pod med, etc. For example, a DDS has no business prescribing psychotropic meds, by and large. If a DDS prescribes a SSRI or benzo to a patient, that should raise a red flag to the pharmacist that something ain't right. Most good pharmacists would call the dentist and make a reasonable inquiry as to why he/she is prescribing a psychotropic med. There could be a valid reason, however, so it's worth asking.

Get over yourself. Also, it might be better until you actually matriculate into dental school to cop an attitude.
you're missing the point! you're an idiot. i think you're smart enough to understand, but just want to deny the fact that clinicians (as a body) decide what drugs get prescribed and pharms fill the order.
 
Actually, dipstick, I'm an MD and a JD, and the MD and DDS are nothing more than puffed up undergrad degrees. In fact, in many parts of the world, physicians and dentists still earn a bachelor's degree (MBBS, BDS) and not an MD or DDS.

The JD came about because in the US, lawyers had to complete a bachelor's degree first and then go to law school for 3-4 years afterwards. And they earned a second bachelor's degree due to English tradition? So, rightly so, they changed the degree to a professional doctorate just like medicine, vet med, and yes...dentistry did. In the US, up until the early 1900s, the BDS and DDS were two year degrees earned after less than one year of formal school (high school). Impressive, eh?


hey you pill pushers,

it's all historical. the ******ed point about why jd lawyers are not called doctors is because the jd equivalent was the llb (bachelors of legal letters) not too long ago.

pharmacy just followed the lead of law by creating a doctoral degree to get more respect from the public.

that's why the public doesn't call pharmacists nor lawyers doctors. give it another 50 years people start calling you doctors.

as a future dentist, i wonder why you pharmacists don't think we practice medicine, albeit dental medicine. if this is the case, why do you fill our Rx's? because we're doctors and you're registered pharmacists.
 
Dang I decide to go out to the bars on a Friday nite and I miss everything.
 
missed the sarcasm. you claim to use it, but don't comprehend it. should i explain. see, the suckiness of zpak, as you have explained wasn't found by pharmacists, but by phd and md. i am sure you about the suckiness from a journal article probably written by a pharmacist who used as a primary source an article written by clinicians. am i wrong?

And if your account of it is correct, even though the phd and md discovered the suckiness, it still takes a pharamcist to tell them that they shouldn't use it. Now tell us again about the brilliance of the med versus pharm students.
 
So a dentist can practice medicine? Sweet, I'm gonna go get a prescription for some triamcinolone cream for my football game sunburn. If I ever need to be intubated, I'll ask for a DDS, I bet they are cheaper than the ER. I'll get one of those medwatch bracelets that read: DDS intubation. Yup. Dentists practicing medicine.
A lot of dentists do know how to intubate patients and have done it several times during residency and in practice. I doubt they'd be cheaper, though. But you are right, there isn't any practice of medicine involved in general anesthesia, or dentistry in general. :thumbup:

Man, all this studying teeth for 4 years is really hard. Ok, one more time, what was it again? Oh, that's right, enamel, dentin, and pulp. I finally remembered!! Ok, back to doing fillings.
 
Oh, lame. I didn't read anymore after that quote until after I posted. Not trying to turn this into dentists vs. pharm.
 
Are pharmactists qualified pharmD any different to those qualified bpharm? For instance do they have additional powers, duties or abilities?

I think a lot of the hours come from practice hours that one used to need after graduation before applying for licensure. Now they are all incorporated into the program, and you can sit for the NAPLEX right after graduation.
 
The MD's are still pissed off about physician assistants and nurse practitioners. When I go to see my "doctor", she is a PA. I don't need to see an MD. The MD who runs the office doesn't do anything for me that the PA doesn't do.

The clinics that are opening up in chain pharmacies and grocery stores will be manned by a PA. I think the MD's are worried about PA's getting into other areas of medicine.


PA's work under the supervision of doctors in every single state, so there is no need to be concerned about them taking over. However, MD's are worried about NP's trying to take over, because in several states they no longer have to be supervised by a physician. That's right, they can open up their own practices, etc. Check out the laws pertaining to this in Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, etc.
 
The etiquette in the US is for only MD/DOs to use the term "doctor" in all settings, including professional, academic and social. It is inappropriate for any non-physician (non-MD/DO) to use the term "doctor" outside of an academic setting. This is the etiquette as established by your society, like it or not.
In patient settings, it is inappropriate for a non-physician to refer to themself in a way that may confuse a patient or family member into thinking that they are a physician. This is supported by risk management offices at every hospital and clinic because it has to be.
Physicians are not the ones who feel they must be "worshipped" by all others by vein referred to as doctor. I never hear physicians complaining about it. It's pharmacists and PhD's who are the ones that make an issue out of this. When a patient is seen by a doctor, they want to see a doctor, not a "Mr. Or Mrs.". Some people may disagree, but the truth is that majority do not.
Doctors are not worried, either, about encroachment by PA's or NP's into their field. Physicians are the ones who hire these PA's, because we frankly do not want to spend our time dealing with the mundane. You can have the "minute clinics". They are third-tier healthcare centers and offer no stimulus for real medicine.
Any pharmacist who insists on being called "doctor" outside of academia (like on a post card) obviously has issues. Practically every doctor I know will not refer to themselves as doctor unless they are introducing themselves formally or to a patient for the first time. After that, we don't have to use the term. We know who we are.
And a dissertation has nothing to do with anything outside academia. So it follows that it has nothing to do with referring to yourself as doctor outside academia. You think a dissertation is hard? Try residency and fellowship after four years of medical school.
And lastly, people who leave med school almost always go to pharmacy school or get a PhD if they continue education. Nice never met any drop-out pharmacy student or PhD who went to med school. That's just the way it is. So get over yourself and quit trying to point the finger at doctors. We are comfortable with our accomplishment and recognition. Are you?
 
Dude I was in high school when this thread ended. I'm a junior in college now.

Let it go.
 
We're not pretentious enough to make people call us by some facade-of-prestige moniker. Mike is fine. Always has been.

Agreed... Mike would be fine with me too if my name wasn't Frank:laugh:

I chuckle at those pretentious ones who insist on the Doctor moniker. To them I say, "Let's see... I spent my 6th year earning a great salary, you spent your's doing rotations, working for free. Glad I was a lowly RPh." Patients call me 'doc' all the time. In a clinical setting I think it is more appropriate, in retail it's less formal and first names are more comfortable. I would feel funny being called Dr., but then again I'm only an RPh.

OOOPPPPs... Didn't realize this was an old thread. Sorry to help resurrect it.
 
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To add to the uselessness of this thread did everyone hear that the iphone is coming to verizon?
 
I really doubt pharmacists will be referred to as doctors. Like lawyers who are never called doctors here in the U.S.

Also, we are still working alongside pharmacists with BS degrees. How long will it take for the last BS graduate to retire? In another 30 years?

Oddly, or not oddly, this pharmD. degree hasn't really taken off in nonU.S. countries?
 
I'll keep it simple. The individuals who deserve to use the title "doctor" must have the “highest level of education in their field”. In most cases, professional doctorates (or, "first professional degree") do not fall into this category.



For instance, some professional “doctorate degrees” may be a requirement for entry into a master’s program. Example: in the field of dentistry, MSD (Masters of Science in Dentistry) applicants must have a DDS/BDent/DMD/BDS before admission to master's programs in dentistry, and a PhD in Dental Science requires either a MSD or DDS/BDent/DMD/BDS. Additionally, in terms of law, in order to earn an LLM, one must have received a JD.


In terms of MDs and DOs, some American institutions list them as terminal degrees, in addition to being professional degrees because most American Universities do not offer any higher degrees in medicine other than the basic entry level medical degree (i.e., MD or DO). However, The European Research Council does not recognize that the MD (or any other first professional degrees) as the "terminal", or most advanced degree.



So basically, if your “doctorate” degree is a “first professional degree” – it is distinct from a PhD, MD, or DO (in the USA). So, I guess, these are the 3 groups, in my opinion, entitled to the “doctor” title. To me, it makes sense to reserve the "right" to the "doctor" title to those who have obtained the highest degree in their field. I'm sorry to say, this does NOT include PharmDs. In reality, a lot of the professional degrees are just degree inflation - keep the Dr. title to the highest educated in your field.



For your reference, the list of “first professional degrees” (i.e., people who should not refer to themselves as "doctor", minus MDs and DOs.):


 
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