DO versus MD competitive residencies

[Dr Dazzle]

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Is it true that it could be advantageous to go the DO route and have a better chance at matching a competitive residency if you are a below average candidate for MD schools? Considering if one went DO, you would have a chance at DO residencies and not just be limited in the even more strict atmosphere of MD residencies?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Dirt]

No.

Just so you know, residency programs do not look at what you did before medical school (within reason). When they are reviewing your application they do not care if you were the last person off the waitlist or if you had your pick of a dozen acceptances.

 

[DrMom]

Residency forums are for those in residency, those applying to residency, and those who have completed residency.
Moving to the pre-Osteo forum since this is a premed question.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

In theory going to a DO school like MSUCOM may make it easier to get into a competitive residency.

 

[donkeykong1]

In theory going to a DO school like MSUCOM may make it easier to get into a competitive residency.

true. but you still need about a 600 on the comlex for all the AOA ROAD and surgical specialties.

 

[qwerty2012]

the top competitive residencies will always be "more" available to students from allo(if that is what you are asking for) It is just how everything works. But a school only offers a place for education/connection and a degree only reaffirms your education. Ultimately, it is you as a future med student who can make what you want possible.

I have heard of med students from osteo background gotten into the best programs in the country for their specialties.

I think in general, there are less DO residencies + less established in competitive fields compare to MD. DO schools are gearing their future doctors to be mostly primary care physicians. And MD residencies in them are already extremely competitive and limited.

 

[dntke1518]

This topic/question =

Search.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Thanks all for your insight! I would appreciate links to previous threads.

 

[Dharma]

Thanks all for your insight! I would appreciate links to previous threads.

Search... and you shall find.

 

[gatorfann14]

true. but you still need about a 600 on the comlex for all the AOA ROAD and surgical specialties.

Not true. The AOA finally put out a residency info thing like the ACGME and things like ortho only had averages of like 540. I was pleasantly shocked when I saw the numbers.

 

[necronomicon]

Not true. The AOA finally put out a residency info thing like the ACGME and things like ortho only had averages of like 540. I was pleasantly shocked when I saw the numbers.

Is this available on their website or did you see it elsewhere? Would be an interesting thing to browse through.

 

[cliquesh]

Is this available on their website or did you see it elsewhere? Would be an interesting thing to browse through.

http://data.aacom.org/media/DO_GME_match_2009.pdf

Keep in mind that this data is from 2009. There were 3724 graduates that year. There were 4623 graduates in 2012. There will be ~6000 in 2015. Resdiencies haven't grown very much during that time. There were 88 ortho spots in 2009. There were 94 ortho spots in 2012.

 

[MedPR]

600 COMLEX is equal to approximately what on the USMLE? 250?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not true. The AOA finally put out a residency info thing like the ACGME and things like ortho only had averages of like 540. I was pleasantly shocked when I saw the numbers.

Opthalmology was like 565 as well. Generally your board score isn't the primary factor for DO residency admissions, it is more rotation experience and background like research/etc.

600 COMLEX is equal to approximately what on the USMLE? 250?

Well the AOA has an equation that converts COMLEX scores poorly into USMLE scores.


Average: 500 SD: 81.

 

[cliquesh]

600 COMLEX is equal to approximately what on the USMLE? 250?

Yea, I know a 600 is around 89th to 90th percentile. I think a 250 is around the 92nd percentile. I got in the low 600's and low 250's on the real thing. However, I have friends who scored in the 700's on the comlex and in the 210's on the usmle, and other friends who barely scored a 500 on the comlex and got in the 240's on the usmle. It's kind of random.

 

[MedPR]

Yea, I know a 600 is around 89th to 90th percentile. I think a 250 is around the 92nd percentile. I got in the low 600's and low 250's on the real thing. However, I have friends who scored in the 700's on the comlex and in the 210's on the usmle, and other friends who barely scored a 500 on the comlex and got in the 240's on the usmle. It's kind of random.

Nice work on Step 1!

 

[Dr Dazzle]

So what I'm getting is that the DO versus MD doesn't matter if you kill the boards.

Btw...how do you guys manage to study for both the comlex and usmle at the same time and do well? That's a concern of mine when picking DO versus MD. Were they formatted similarly? Do MCAT scores predict board scores in terms of percentiles?

 

[dntke1518]

It essentially covers the same material, with the addition of OMM in the comlex. Alot of students use USMLE study aids like FirstAid and what not to study for the comlex. Correct me if I'm wrong but some schools provide a kaplan USMLE prep course before your COMLEX boards.

 

[DocEspana]

Something should be said: It is entirely possible for DO to get you a more competitive residency than you'd normally be competitive for. BUT that occurance is pretty rare. I only bring it up because I pretty much qualify as one of the few examples of it. In most situations you need to smash your boards to get a competitive residency. If you're gonna smash them, you'd smash them in either degree. Though there is a decent chance that unless you blow it out of the water, you'd be getting an AOA version rather than an ACGME version. (but the latter does happen enough to say that nothing is entirely impossible). This is highly applicable, to say, orthopedics. Which is just as hard to get into on the AOA side and the ACGME side.

But then pick something like urology. Urology is difficult to exclusionary levels in the ACGME. The average board score is, unless im mistake 243 or 245. And the cut off point for most programs is a 236. On the other hand, in the AOA it is a very competitive program, but is not setting such insane hurdles (equivalent COMLEX scores) to get in. I am just below the qualifications point for ACGME (technically AUA) programs. But I am (I think) highly competitive for AOA programs in this.

There are only some programs where the qualification hurdle is different between the two sides. And its usually in situations where ACGME programs are prohibitively difficult. (ENT also comes to mind) while AOA is just regular difficult.

 

[oms2]

from students i know, the knowledge base is the same so what you do is you study for the umsle, take it and then review your omm stuff, and then take the comlex. both tests should be taken within a few days so you don't forget your material. its like killing two birds with the same stone.
you have to pass comlex to graduate, so it's not an option for do students. but if you're aiming for a competitive aoa residency (esp surgical) you'll need a high comlex score. there are students who take just the comlex for this reason so they can match aoa.
students who want to widen their choices as far as location or know they'll match acgme take both exams so they can even skip the aoa match if they want.
however, if you take usmle and get a low score it will hurt you which is why some do students don't bother.
exam questions are worded differently. usmle questions have more details which you can wade through and get to an answer. comlex questions assume you already have seen stuff before in chunks and you have to dig them up and sort them out in your head.
a student who used to be a software engineer told me taking usmle is like writing a program from scratch with few subroutines, whereas comlex is like writing a program by putting together a bunch of subroutines which they assume you already know by heart. the two processes arrive at the same answer.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Isn't it significant that for DO you have both the AOA as well as ACGME options, while for MD you just have the ACGME?

Not sure if it really matters in the end. As far as med school, I guess it's best to attend a school where you feel comfortable and can succeed.

Are the rotation opportunities for MD and DO different? I would think that DO schools are more primary care focused. Not sure if that creates a difference in required rotations.

 

[oms2]

all med students md or do are required to go through a set of core rotations which includes surgery, ob/gyn etc. and pass them. the electives depend on your personal interests.

 

[Guero]

So if you take both the COMLEX and USMLE steps, do you have to choose one residency route? Or can you interview at both types of programs and choose to rank one set of AOA or ACGME residencies? I'm confused as to how that aspect would work...

Thanks in advance.

 

[oms2]

a do student can apply to either side or both, aoa and acgme. if you apply acgme and you've taken usmle, then you're required to submit your usmle score. (some acgme programs do accept comlex).
(the aoa match happens before the acgme match. if you match aoa, you're automatically removed from the acgme match.)

 

[cliquesh]

So what I'm getting is that the DO versus MD doesn't matter if you kill the boards.

Btw...how do you guys manage to study for both the comlex and usmle at the same time and do well? That's a concern of mine when picking DO versus MD. Were they formatted similarly? Do MCAT scores predict board scores in terms of percentiles?

If you crush the boards, and you are a decently like able person, you can be pretty much any type of doctor coming from a DO school. However, even if you crush the boards, as a DO you will probably never end up at a top intuition. You will likely go to a mid-tier Acgme residency, at best, for the lesser competitive fields, like internal medicine, or an aoa residency for more competitive fields, like ortho. There are exceptions, though. DOs are welcome at top PM&R and anesthiology programs.

So you can be an ortho surgeon relatively easily coming from a DO school, but you are not going to be receiving your training from any place people have heard of. I'm not saying the training is bad or anything; it's just kind of unknown. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

Board scores do correlate somewhat with mcat scores.

 

[necronomicon]

If you crush the boards, and you are a decently like able person, you can be pretty much any type of doctor coming from a DO school. However, even if you crush the boards, as a DO you will probably never end up at a top intuition. You will likely go to a mid-tier Acgme residency, at best, for the lesser competitive fields, like internal medicine, or an aoa residency for more competitive fields, like ortho. There are exceptions, though. DOs are welcome at top PM&R and anesthiology programs.

So you can be an ortho surgeon relatively easily coming from a DO school, but you are not going to be receiving your training from any place people have heard of. I'm not saying the training is bad or anything; it's just kind of unknown. It probably doesn't matter anyway.

Board scores do correlate somewhat with mcat scores.

Pretty sure the emboldened part is not true. I've yet to see anyone say that ortho is a relatively easy match after DO school. If that were the case, why wouldn't all the pre-allo kids that are sure they want to do ortho become DO's to get an easy match?

 

[NeuroLAX]

Pretty sure the emboldened part is not true. I've yet to see anyone say that ortho is a relatively easy match after DO school. If that were the case, why wouldn't all the pre-allo kids that are sure they want to do ortho become DO's to get an easy match?

I was going to say something about this as well, but can't seem to find the exact match % stats that indicate that matching ortho is <5%. I think it's in the ballpark of ~2.5-3.5ish%. Regardless, ortho definitely is not "relatively easy" to match.

 

[cliquesh]

Sorry. Bad choice of words. I meant matching Aoa ortho is not much harder than a md matching Acgme ortho.