Do Vet residents get paid?

[Gonzalezjess3]

Hello,

I am interested in vet medicine and was wondering if vet residents get paid? Or does it depend on the specialty you are interested in? Thanks🙂

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[jmo1012]

depends on the residency spot, some are and some aren't but either way they don't get paid very much. http://www.virmp.org/

 

[Gonzalezjess3]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the difference between residency and an internship? Do you have to do both? Or again does it depend on what area you are interested in? Thanks

 

[jmo1012]

internship comes before a residency. internships are generally 1 year at a certified hospital (aka they've been approved). you dont have to complete a residency after an internship. a lot of students are completing an internship right out of school to get more experience before they move on to private practice. you dont have any specialty after completing an internship other than you can say that you did an internship

residencies generally require an internship (but not all) and are 2-4 years depending upon the program. the average length is 3 years. residencies are done with the goal of specialty and board certification at the end.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Residencies and internships are paid. You are a doctor, not a student. I personally haven't heard of one that isn't. But yeah, the pay is pretty crap considering the amount of pay for your education. My salary is 31K, and that's high for residency. Interns are anywhere from 22-26K from what I have heard.

 

[Gonzalezjess3]

Thank you very much for your help🙂

 

[jmo1012]

i've heard of unpaid zoo and exotics internships and there is a category on the virmp website labeled small animal medicine/surgery (unpaid) but i'm not sure what that means as there are no listings currently

 

[JSpitz]

Residencies and internships are paid. You are a doctor, not a student. I personally haven't heard of one that isn't. But yeah, the pay is pretty crap considering the amount of pay for your education. My salary is 31K, and that's high for residency. Interns are anywhere from 22-26K from what I have heard.

I hope those 22-26k internships are somewhere in the mid-West or the southern states. 😱

 

[Bill59]

Residencies and internships are paid. You are a doctor, not a student. I personally haven't heard of one that isn't.

They're out there. A few of them are actually set up that way. But most of the unpaid positions are for specific situations. For example, radiology hires a faculty married to someone who wants an ophtho residency so ophtho sets up an unpaid residency for that one person.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

i've heard of unpaid zoo and exotics internships and there is a category on the virmp website labeled small animal medicine/surgery (unpaid) but i'm not sure what that means as there are no listings currently

That's really bizarre. And crappy for our profession....

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I hope those 22-26k internships are somewhere in the mid-West or the southern states. 😱

Yeaaaah. Not always. :/ I have seen some internships in LA and New York City go to mid thirties, but that's about it.

 

[libster06]

Yeaaaah. Not always. :/ I have seen some internships in LA and New York City go to mid thirties, but that's about it.

Same here, I was looking them up the other day (you know, for fun) and 31K was the highest I saw, in LA (Los Angeles- not Large Animal ;P)

 

[jmo1012]

Yeaaaah. Not always. :/ I have seen some internships in LA and New York City go to mid thirties, but that's about it.

and those are probably to help match better with cost of living :-/

one of my friends is a 4th year at VMRCVM and shes talked a lot about how a lot of the zoo med stuff is unpaid but you just kinda bite the bullet if thats where you want to be in life

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

and those are probably to help match better with cost of living :-/

one of my friends is a 4th year at VMRCVM and shes talked a lot about how a lot of the zoo med stuff is unpaid but you just kinda bite the bullet if thats where you want to be in life

Zoo med is a very competitive field (hey, VMRCVM that's my school 😉 If your friend is a fourth year, I might know her, I was class of 2010). We had a couple peeps interested in wildlife/exotics/zoo, but I think most of them had to end up going the small animal route. Sad, because a) in zoo med, we NEED to learn more about these animals and train people, and b) wildlife is a HUGE disease reservoir that needs more veterinary attention.

 

[jmo1012]

Zoo med is a very competitive field (hey, VMRCVM that's my school 😉 If your friend is a fourth year, I might know her, I was class of 2010). We had a couple peeps interested in wildlife/exotics/zoo, but I think most of them had to end up going the small animal route. Sad, because a) in zoo med, we NEED to learn more about these animals and train people, and b) wildlife is a HUGE disease reservoir that needs more veterinary attention.

haha yeah i know, thats why i threw the school out there 🙂 she has a bunch of neat rotations lined up for this year (including overseas). thats too bad that so many of the zoo/wildlife/exotics people ended up elsewhere, it really stinks that finances cause such hard limitations on passions.

ETA: among the pre-vet population, it seems like most of the students i meet (except for on here) all want to go the zoo/exotics/wildlife route

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

ETA: among the pre-vet population, it seems like most of the students i meet (except for on here) all want to go the zoo/exotics/wildlife route

I think a lot of people start out that way, and then either a) get into different things once they get into vet school, or b) realize what a tough road toplow it it. I mean heck, I cam into vet school wanting to do exotics. And by the end I was deciding between ambulatory food animal medicine and pathology people change.

 

[Bill59]

That's really bizarre. And crappy for our profession....

I agree it's crappy. However, the argument is that in most cases of unpaid internships/residencies the program cannot afford to offer a paid position. So the choice for the intern/resident is between no position or an unpaid position. Many have used these unpaid positions as a springboard to the career they want. And they are all competent adults making these decisions.

It may soon be a moot point. There is concern that these positions run afoul of minimum wage laws and may soon get banned. They were recently banned at many places for non-US citizens, because of some law that I can't remember that regulates employment of visa holders.

 

[JSpitz]

I agree it's crappy. However, the argument is that in most cases of unpaid internships/residencies the program cannot afford to offer a paid position. So the choice for the intern/resident is between no position or an unpaid position. Many have used these unpaid positions as a springboard to the career they want. And they are all competent adults making these decisions.

It may soon be a moot point. There is concern that these positions run afoul of minimum wage laws and may soon get banned. They were recently banned at many places for non-US citizens, because of some law that I can't remember that regulates employment of visa holders.

What if the programs pay minimum wage? In CA that would be around $8 an hour, but I suppose that it would be the same thing as (or worse than) paying salary since these residents probably put in 60-80 hr weeks. This is from the perspective of those organizations lacking funds, of course.

Becoming a technician was a analogous story (working unpaid to gain a paid position), I volunteered for 8-9 months before getting paid. Difference is that I was a student and it wasn't 60-80 hrs a week.

Speaking of competitive fields, a specialist once told me that some doctors are completing two internships before matching for a residency in surgery, ophthalmology, etc.

 

[frozen_canadian]

Speaking of competitive fields, a specialist once told me that some doctors are completing two internships before matching for a residency in surgery, ophthalmology, etc.

I know (first hand) a person who did 6 - SIX! - internships before finally matching into a small animal surgery position at an academic hospital. Talk about dedication...

 

[jmo1012]

i was looking at employment stats for 1st year beyond school DVMs on the AVMA website last night. in 2006, roughly 30% of graduates were going into "continuing education" (which i assume is mainly internships) while in 2010 it was at 50%. I've heard that a lot more students are choosing to do an internship these days but it certainly worries me because things are only going to continue to be more competitive (assuming the number of internships doesnt really change)

 

[StartingoverVet]

I know (first hand) a person who did 6 - SIX! - internships before finally matching into a small animal surgery position at an academic hospital. Talk about dedication...

Honestly I don't see the point. I am no expert, by far, but there doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to finding a "regular" vet position in the meantime. Few of the residents I have met so far at Penn(again limited experience) have come directly from internship, so I question the thinking of doing repeated internships.

 

[Angelo84]

Just a word of warning internships are not certified or approved or any other overseeing term you can think of. Any one can list an internship on the VIRMP site. So make sure you talk to people that have done the internship, visit yourself if you can and talk to your faculty. There are many great internships and there are some where you are just a warm body to cover overnights.

There are a few of us doing internships this year look in the vet folder to figure out who I don't remember the title of the thread.

 

[Bill59]

What if the programs pay minimum wage? In CA that would be around $8 an hour, but I suppose that it would be the same thing as (or worse than) paying salary since these residents probably put in 60-80 hr weeks.

If they paid minimum wage then they obviously would not be unpaid internships. But as you say, many paid internships and residencies already pay less then minimum wage if you were to base the salary on an hourly basis.

Currently, salaried professionals are generally exempt from minimum wage and overtime laws.

 

[Bill59]

i was looking at employment stats for 1st year beyond school DVMs on the AVMA website last night. in 2006, roughly 30% of graduates were going into "continuing education" (which i assume is mainly internships) while in 2010 it was at 50%. I've heard that a lot more students are choosing to do an internship these days but it certainly worries me because things are only going to continue to be more competitive (assuming the number of internships doesnt really change)

The number of internships programs has been going up a lot, although as Angelo posted, a lot of these are not necessarily good programs. Residency slots have not been going up nearly as fast, so that's the bottleneck for some specialties. That's how you get some people doing multiple internships before they get a residency.