DO vs Dental

[BestDoctorEver]

@user3
And I've heard people call medicine a rewarding career too, what's your point? What happened to pharmacy could never happen to dentistry. Do you know how ridiculously easy and cheap it is to start a pharamacy school? Do you realize starting a dental school is actually more expensive and difficult than starting a medical school simply because of the cost of the clinics alone.. Why do you think there's so few of them?

Edit: you can't just open a 'for-profit' dental school. Dental schools barely make enough profit as is, why do you think tuition is insanely high? We don't have hospitals the cover the cost of our rotations.

MD>DO>DDS or DMD>PA=DPM>PharmD. The MCAT is what makes admission to med school more difficult than dental school...

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[Dipdoc]

@user3
No there hasn't.
@BestDoctorEver
You make it seem like 'taking' the MCAT is what's difficult. Taking the MCAT is easy. Anyone can do it. It's scoring well on the MCAT (as in 30+) that's difficult, which is something that is most often lacking in DO applications. There's no safe haven for people who score poorly on the DAT.

Edit: I could also say that the fact that you guys have grade replacement obviously makes admissions easier, but I won't. Because you can't just arbitrarily choose ONE factor of applications and say that it determines which is harder. They are both so different that you can't possiblt compare.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

yawn....I have to finish my wife's cook first. But I jump in. DO admission is just as hard as dental; look at the statistic 1/3 of all D.O. applicants matriculate; the same ratio for dental; GPA is about the same with dental being slightly higher, but it does not mean any thing in this inflated GPA age. Both DAT and MCAT tests are scored on scaled standard, so it does not matter which test is harder, only the top half of those test-takers can get in anyway. Now a ***** (cannot remember the name) mentioned that physician job is worth more to the society than dentist; that is so wrong. In fact both professions are at the mercy of each other. I saw physicians trembling at the dental chairs (who wouldnt?); and you better hope that when that time comes and you must have full mouth extractions/reconstruction, that dentist holding the scapel know what he doing, or you would be "toothless" for a very wrong reason.

It makes a difference when there are different group of people taking the test... One of my best friends had a tough time with the MCAT (could not break in the mid 20s), but scored 23 in the DAT, which is like scoring 35 MCAT according to what he told me... He is attending a good dental school now...

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@user3
No there hasn't.
@BestDoctorEver
You make it seem like 'taking' the MCAT is what's difficult. Taking the MCAT is easy. Anyone can do it. It's scoring well on the MCAT (as in 30+) that's difficult, which is something that is most often lacking in DO applications. There's no safe haven for people who score poorly on the DAT.

Scoring 27+ in the MCAT is not a walk in the park...

Edit... I think DO and dental school might be similar in term of difficulty... But getting into MD is definitely more difficult than dental school...

 

[user3]

@user3
No there hasn't.
@BestDoctorEver
You make it seem like 'taking' the MCAT is what's difficult. Taking the MCAT is easy. Anyone can do it. It's scoring well on the MCAT (as in 30+) that's difficult, which is something that is most often lacking in DO applications. There's no safe haven for people who score poorly on the DAT.

Edit: I could also say that the fact that you guys have grade replacement obviously makes admissions easier, but I won't. Because you can't just arbitrarily choose ONE factor of applications and say that it determines which is harder. They are both so different that you can't possiblt compare.

you seem trollish, but I will dialogue anyway.

With a 3.2 GPA, what DAT would give one a >50% chance of 1 acceptance if applying early, broadly, with no red flags?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@user3
No there hasn't.
@BestDoctorEver
You make it seem like 'taking' the MCAT is what's difficult. Taking the MCAT is easy. Anyone can do it. It's scoring well on the MCAT (as in 30+) that's difficult, which is something that is most often lacking in DO applications. There's no safe haven for people who score poorly on the DAT.

Edit: I could also say that the fact that you guys have grade replacement obviously makes admissions easier, but I won't. Because you can't just arbitrarily choose ONE factor of applications and say that it determines which is harder. They are both so different that you can't possiblt compare.

This is from a dental student...

Base on your Chem, I think you will boom the MCAT. MCAT and DAT are 2 different tests. Like apple and orange. But MCAT is alot harder for someone who cant read fast or use logic thinking quiskly. DAT is more like whether you know it or not. I took both, and I boom the MCAT with all sections. Here is my DAT scores, biol 23. Gchem 24 ochem 24. ts 24. AA 22. MCAT I got 21 out of 45. if you wanna try it out, let me know what u get.

I knew someone can do good on the MCAT (30-32) but they dont really know much stuffs. but DAT you def need to know the materials before u hit it.

 

[Dipdoc]

This is from a dental student...

Because anecdotal evidence always proves sooo much... I have several stories of people who have scored well on both or scored poorly on both.

Either way I already agreed the MCAT was harder. My argument is that you guys don't have to score high enough on the MCAT for it to make a difference. And that the test alone isn't enough to make overall admissions that much 'harder'. Grade replacement remember? GPA also factors in.. As well as a bunch of other things.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

This is from a dental student...

I noticed the same thing... If one has not taken the MCAT, one truly has no idea what it is about. Doing a couple of practice questions gives you no real clue.

 

[yeslek88]

The mcat point was just a general question, not directed specifically towards you.

The bolded is probably true but that doesn't have any effect on which is harder. I will probably get a lot of heat from this but I can't believe that many people have a passion for teeth. Many people also don't go into medicine for the passion of it either, but that number is still lower imo.

In any case, I believe we digressed. This argument really cant be made on either side. I will argue however that a physicians role in society is much more difficult than a dentists (responsibility wise). of course this will be considered extreme view, but fire away...

FYI to those following, he is a dental student and i am an accepted DO med student. Now it makes sense right? lolz

People don't go into dentistry because they love teeth. Thats like saying if you go into architecture you must love cement.

 

[GypsyHummus]

you twisted what i said. worth more =/= better value TO society. yes, derm is worth more than pediatrics TO STUDENTS because the lifestyle and money is better. TO SOCIETY, pediatrics may be worth more.

I don't believe that many students even use the grade replacement. Even if they do, it will mostly be non trads. No i dont have evidence of this via numbers. not going to look that up..

@GypsyHummus are you nontrad?

Not really, tho I am doing somewhat of a post bacc. Retaking some classes and need to get biochem

Also, can anyone who actually, somehow, applied to both dental and DO schools chime in. not sure if thats possible in the same year though?

I was planning on applying to both. DO schools have been much more receptive to my app as opposed to Dental. I have a 3.4 and around 3.1 science.

@GypsyHummus

Tuition for dental school is insanely high right now, fortunately I was able to get into my state school which cut down the cost a bit. But either way I still think dentistry is worth it! Dentistry can be a very rewarding field if you do choose to go this route!

@Dipdoc, It is NUTS! I looked at the tuition for AT still dental and they have tuition (Just cost of listening to people lecture) at 65K. They estimate the budget for a freshmen at 109K!!!!! I am lucky to have a state school, and if I get in there, u better believe imma go there. from what I have heard, dentists can pull in anywhere from 150K-200K their first year.

Osteopathic Schools are a bit better, but still too high. AT still has a tuition of around 45 and an overall budget of 65k

thats kind of what everyone was saying about pharmacy a few years ago...their job market and admission standards have since utterly collapsed.

Thats what everyone has been saying about medicine. I foresee med students coming to a saturation soon.

@user3
And I've heard people call medicine a rewarding career too, what's your point? What happened to pharmacy could never happen to dentistry. Do you know how ridiculously easy and cheap it is to start a pharamacy school? Do you realize starting a dental school is actually more expensive and difficult than starting a medical school simply because of the cost of the clinics alone.. Why do you think there's so few of them?

Edit: you can't just open a 'for-profit' dental school. Dental schools barely make enough profit as is, why do you think tuition is insanely high? We don't have hospitals the cover the cost of our rotations.

Yeah, I don't think that there has been a surge of new dental schools like there has been with medical schools. Namely, all these private DO schools. And the Dental schools tend to keep the number of students below the 100 mark, which really helps to control the supply of dentists being pumped out. DO schools slap the butt of accreditation and push in 150+ new students every year.

Plus, with dentistry, there aren't any dental hygienists proclaiming themselves able to do the responsibilities of a dentist. Nurse practitioners (NPs) really are starting to encroach on medicine. They have started to bleed into the specialties now, with NPs doing cardiovascular care. That will end poorly for everyone involved. Patients as they end up getting subpar treatment, Doctors as they are pushed out of hospitals because they cost too much, and even the nurses themselves when they get sued.

 

[larrylu]

Everybody is speaking their minds and nobody is changing their minds----- Stanly Hudson

 

[67552931811]

Not really, tho I am doing somewhat of a post bacc. Retaking some classes and need to get biochem



I was planning on applying to both. DO schools have been much more receptive to my app as opposed to Dental. I have a 3.4 and around 3.1 science.



@Dipdoc, It is NUTS! I looked at the tuition for AT still dental and they have tuition (Just cost of listening to people lecture) at 65K. They estimate the budget for a freshmen at 109K!!!!! I am lucky to have a state school, and if I get in there, u better believe imma go there. from what I have heard, dentists can pull in anywhere from 150K-200K their first year.

Osteopathic Schools are a bit better, but still too high. AT still has a tuition of around 45 and an overall budget of 65k



Thats what everyone has been saying about medicine. I foresee med students coming to a saturation soon.



Yeah, I don't think that there has been a surge of new dental schools like there has been with medical schools. Namely, all these private DO schools. And the Dental schools tend to keep the number of students below the 100 mark, which really helps to control the supply of dentists being pumped out. DO schools slap the butt of accreditation and push in 150+ new students every year.

Plus, with dentistry, there aren't any dental hygienists proclaiming themselves able to do the responsibilities of a dentist. Nurse practitioners (NPs) really are starting to encroach on medicine. They have started to bleed into the specialties now, with NPs doing cardiovascular care. That will end poorly for everyone involved. Patients as they end up getting subpar treatment, Doctors as they are pushed out of hospitals because they cost too much, and even the nurses themselves when they get sued.

Not even close-- let me tell you about this little thing known as tens of MILLIONS of new people now needing healthcare.

False, there have been more MD schools started in the past decade than DO schools.

False x2, there are now Doctorate programs for Dental Hygienists: the writing is on the wall.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Because anecdotal evidence always proves sooo much... I have several stories of people who have scored well on both or scored poorly on both.

Either way I already agreed the MCAT was harder. My argument is that you guys don't have to score high enough on the MCAT for it to make a difference. And that the test alone isn't enough to make overall admissions that much 'harder'. Grade replacement remember? GPA also factors in.. As well as a bunch of other things.

So you agree with me though about the MCAT vs. DAT... They are different and difficult to get in. Getting into one or the other means you are an above average college student... I also thought about dental school, but I was not willing to pay 75k+ COA when I heard most dentists right out of dental school make 100k-120k... If I went dental, I believe I would have been as happy as I am now attending med school...

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I was planning on applying to both. DO schools have been much more receptive to my app as opposed to Dental. I have a 3.4 and around 3.1 science.

What are your MCAT and DAT scores?

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/medicine-dntistry-vet-the-quest-for-top-dog-status.988878/

 

[TheBoiii]

I think TheBoiii and Dipdoc might be the same person...

LOL. now that would be genius

yawn....I have to finish my wife's cook first. But I jump in. DO admission is just as hard as dental; look at the statistic 1/3 of all D.O. applicants matriculate; the same ratio for dental; GPA is about the same with dental being slightly higher, but it does not mean any thing in this inflated GPA age. Both DAT and MCAT tests are scored on scaled standard, so it does not matter which test is harder, only the top half of those test-takers can get in anyway. Now a ***** (cannot remember the name) mentioned that physician job is worth more to the society than dentist; that is so wrong. In fact both professions are at the mercy of each other. I saw physicians trembling at the dental chairs (who wouldnt?); and you better hope that when that time comes and you must have full mouth extractions/reconstruction, that dentist holding the scapel know what he doing, or you would be "toothless" for a very wrong reason.

False. Most people do not go into the MCAT assuming they are taking the DO route. It is an alternative idea beforehand or after they get their results. This really skews the pool of students who take the mcat vs those who take the dat. self-selections would intuitively design it so that mcat-takers are of higher caliber. Thus, the average accpeted DO last time i checked was around 26/27, while dat was 19. Although those numbers seem similar, to achieve a 26/27 on the mcat is difficult. Please take me what score you got on the mcat, if you took it, and how much you prepared?

@user3
And I've heard people call medicine a rewarding career too, what's your point? What happened to pharmacy could never happen to dentistry. Do you know how ridiculously easy and cheap it is to start a pharamacy school? Do you realize starting a dental school is actually more expensive and difficult than starting a medical school simply because of the cost of the clinics alone.. Why do you think there's so few of them?

There are around 60 dental schools vs around 30 DO schools. you also went back to using "medical school" in your arguement here, that would include MD...how convenient..since there are like 100 (or more I think) MD schools...

Edit: you can't just open a 'for-profit' dental school. Dental schools barely make enough profit as is, why do you think tuition is insanely high? We don't have hospitals the cover the cost of our rotations.

If you don't have to take the MCAT, it is easier IMO... Most people can get a 3.7 GPA at a flagship state school... MCAT is a more difficult test than DAT/PCAT/GRE etc...

Agreed and Agreed. MCAT is a major reason people don't even consider med school anymore. Any score form 25-30 is not easy to get...but its not enough for Md usually, thus this territory of people either go carribean or DO. I doubt many choose dental because of such a score..

@user3
No there hasn't.
@BestDoctorEver
You make it seem like 'taking' the MCAT is what's difficult. Taking the MCAT is easy. Anyone can do it. It's scoring well on the MCAT (as in 30+) that's difficult, which is something that is most often lacking in DO applications. There's no safe haven for people who score poorly on the DAT.

False. Alot of DO applicants have 30+ but lower gpas. Can someone also bring up VERBAL. That section alone destroys many peoples score, verbal>dat reading comprehension by far.

Edit: I could also say that the fact that you guys have grade replacement obviously makes admissions easier, but I won't. Because you can't just arbitrarily choose ONE factor of applications and say that it determines which is harder. They are both so different that you can't possiblt compare.

Like @GypsyHummus, the grade replacement works but it requires TIME and EXTRA effort...many people who are not adamant about becoming a doctor could easily just apply to a lower dental school. I really doubt someone who takes a lot of grade replacement will do well enough on the mcat to score 27+

Because anecdotal evidence always proves sooo much... I have several stories of people who have scored well on both or scored poorly on both.

Do you have stories of people who scored better on the MCAT than the DAT?

Either way I already agreed the MCAT was harder. My argument is that you guys don't have to score high enough on the MCAT for it to make a difference. And that the test alone isn't enough to make overall admissions that much 'harder'. Grade replacement remember? GPA also factors in.. As well as a bunch of other things.

Yes it is. Besides the few that get 30+ but have weak GPAs (slackers who are just natrually smart), getting a 27 is no easy task. Please take the real thing, get a 27 or more, and come back to this thread...

BOOM. roasted

 

[arkenstone]

...I took both, and I boom the MCAT with all sections. Here is my DAT scores, biol 23. Gchem 24 ochem 24. ts 24. AA 22. MCAT I got 21 out of 45...

...One of my best friends had a tough time with the MCAT (could not break in the mid 20s), but scored 23 in the DAT, which is like scoring 35 MCAT according to what he told me... He is attending a good dental school now...

pre-dental here:
although both tests are on a sliding scale, based on these two experiences I would agree the MCAT is objectively a more difficult because of the pool of people taking it. getting a 23 (out of 30) on the DAT is about the threshold for the 99th percentile (ADA DAT program report 2011). percentile-wise, that would translate into a 38 (out of 45) on the MCAT (source). given that the two experiences above equated (A) 22-DAT to 21-MCAT and (B) 23-DAT to ~25-MCAT.....seems pretty clear.....based on n=2, of course

average DAT for dental enrollees is about 19 (80th percentile). based on some googling (tell me if I'm wrong) average MCAT for MD enrollees is about 31 (80th percentile) and for DO enrollees 26 (about 55th percentile)

doc toothache, above, often posts some comprehensive breakdowns. worth a read. based on his sources for overall GPA of matriculants:

MD 3.68
vet 3.57
dental 3.53
osteo 3.49

another doc toothache breakdown (here) breaks down applicants/enrollee ratios (high ratio = lower acceptance rate)

dental 2.61
MD 2.38
vet 2.16
osteo (not provided)

From what I understand, the huuuuge expense of dental school arises from this supply/demand issue with dental in combination with the expense of running a dental clinic (what dental students do instead of rotations)

The takeaway? You can melt them down to averages and pick one (MD, of course), but they're pretty close, and the huge variation--between schools and specialties--in each category pretty much encompasses the ranges of the other categories. They're difficult for different reasons, too.

I understand that there's a perception that people fall back on dental school if they're not good enough for med school. That may be true in some cases, but generally speaking if you do poorly enough that you KNOW you won't get into med school, you probably won't get into dental school either. A lot of pre-meds who are getting C's in their prerequisites often show up to the pre-dental meetings, but don't stick around once they find out that their chances aren't greatly improved. The only pre-med to pre-dental switchers I know of who stick with it are the ones who could get into med school, but realized upon shadowing that they didn't like how their lifestyle might end up. Personally, I'm a bit closer to the latter category.

 

[67552931811]

pre-dental here:
although both tests are on a sliding scale, based on these two experiences I would agree the MCAT is objectively a more difficult because of the pool of people taking it. getting a 23 (out of 30) on the DAT is about the threshold for the 99th percentile (ADA DAT program report 2011). percentile-wise, that would translate into a 38 (out of 45) on the MCAT (source). given that the two experiences above equated (A) 22-DAT to 21-MCAT and (B) 23-DAT to ~25-MCAT.....seems pretty clear.....based on n=2, of course

average DAT for dental enrollees is about 19 (80th percentile). based on some googling (tell me if I'm wrong) average MCAT for MD enrollees is about 31 (80th percentile) and for DO enrollees 26 (about 55th percentile)

doc toothache, above, often posts some comprehensive breakdowns. worth a read. based on his sources for overall GPA of matriculants:

MD 3.68
vet 3.57
dental 3.53
osteo 3.49

another doc toothache breakdown (here) breaks down applicants/enrollee ratios (high ratio = lower acceptance rate)

dental 2.61
MD 2.38
vet 2.16
osteo (not provided)

From what I understand, the huuuuge expense of dental school arises from this supply/demand issue with dental in combination with the expense of running a dental clinic (what dental students do instead of rotations)

The takeaway? You can melt them down to averages and pick one (MD, of course), but they're pretty close, and the huge variation--between schools and specialties--in each category pretty much encompasses the ranges of the other categories. They're difficult for different reasons, too.

I understand that there's a perception that people fall back on dental school if they're not good enough for med school. That may be true in some cases, but generally speaking if you do poorly enough that you KNOW you won't get into med school, you probably won't get into dental school either. A lot of pre-meds who are getting C's in their prerequisites often show up to the pre-dental meetings, but don't stick around once they find out that their chances aren't greatly improved. The only pre-med to pre-dental switchers I know of who stick with it are the ones who could get into med school, but realized upon shadowing that they didn't like how their lifestyle might end up. Personally, I'm a bit closer to the latter category----I've posted this a bit too much but my dad's an orthopedic surgeon, and so my pre-med phase was short lived....psych tries to seduce every once and a while, but pre-dental it is

As Hermey the elf said, "let's be independent together!"

Wrong, it's a 27.

False, old data. Gpas are higher for both MD and DO (no clue about Dental).

All four are wrong-- look at the first link provided by DT. Also, the osteo ratio is provided if you looked at the MUCH newer link, and it is 2.74 (2.45 for Dental, FYI)-- again, look at the first link, which is 5 years newer than the link you provided.

But, who seriously cares? It's competitive to be a physician (MD or DO) or to be a dentist (DMD or DDS). Both have significant importance in society and both require highly intelligent and dedicated people.

 

[arkenstone]

You're wrong, it's a 27.

False, old data. Gpas are higher for both MD and DO (no clue about Dental).

What are you talking about? All four are wrong-- look at the first link provided by DT. Also, the osteo ratio is provided if you looked at the MUCH newer link, and it is 2.74 (2.45 for Dental, FYI)-- again, look at the first link, which is 5 years newer than the link you provided (convenient to prove your point).

Old data doesn't exactly make it false, but I appreciate the updates and would like to bookmark the sources you mention. I think the takeaway is still valid---they're all pretty close.

 

[y3nd0]

You should visit the DO school specific threads and do the same, touro has 30/3.5++ students.

I am accepting that they are different, i even said that this arguement was pointless several times, but you keep wanting me to publish numbers when in fact you haven't published any at all...

I have no super ego for DO schools...i even said that they're less than md in competitiveness... but i will say that they attract stronger students than dentistry does, because in the end, a physicans job is "worth more" than a dentists in society.

Care to elaborate on this (horrible) statement?

 

[67552931811]

Old data doesn't exactly make it false, but I appreciate the updates and would like to bookmark the sources you mention. I think the takeaway is still valid---they're all pretty close.

Using data regarding the ratio of people who applied to people who got in (for each field) from 2008 or the average matriculant gpa for each field from 2008 is 100% irrelevant. It just shows how things were 6 years ago.... So, yes, in this instance (where you are attempting to compare the different fields TODAY), it does make it false.

I agree with the takeaway.

 

[arkenstone]

Using data regarding the ratio of people who applied to people who got in (for each field) from 2008 is 100% irrelevant. It just shows how things were 6 years ago.... So, yes, in this instance (where you are attempting to compare the different fields TODAY), it does make it false.

I agree with the takeaway.

Ok---seemed like the 'convenient to prove your point' was you thinking I was diminishing DO, which was definitely not my intent

 

[67552931811]

Ok---seemed like the 'convenient to prove your point' was you thinking I was diminishing DO, which was definitely not my intent

No way, dude. No worries at all. I removed that line as it came across in a way that I did not intend.

 

[Dipdoc]

LOL. now that would be genius



False. Most people do not go into the MCAT assuming they are taking the DO route. It is an alternative idea beforehand or after they get their results. This really skews the pool of students who take the mcat vs those who take the dat. self-selections would intuitively design it so that mcat-takers are of higher caliber. Thus, the average accpeted DO last time i checked was around 26/27, while dat was 19. Although those numbers seem similar, to achieve a 26/27 on the mcat is difficult. Please take me what score you got on the mcat, if you took it, and how much you prepared?





Agreed and Agreed. MCAT is a major reason people don't even consider med school anymore. Any score form 25-30 is not easy to get...but its not enough for Md usually, thus this territory of people either go carribean or DO. I doubt many choose dental because of such a score..



Like @GypsyHummus, the grade replacement works but it requires TIME and EXTRA effort...many people who are not adamant about becoming a doctor could easily just apply to a lower dental school. I really doubt someone who takes a lot of grade replacement will do well enough on the mcat to score 27+



Yes it is. Besides the few that get 30+ but have weak GPAs (slackers who are just natrually smart), getting a 27 is no easy task. Please take the real thing, get a 27 or more, and come back to this thread...

BOOM. roasted

You still haven't provided concrete data proving exactly how DO is more difficult than dental. You're just going in circles at this point.

 

[arkenstone]

You still haven't provided concrete data proving exactly how DO is more difficult than dental. You're just going in circles at this point.

As an aside, I gotta say...your avatar...please don't tell me that's your dog...makes me want to disagree with you somehow, lol

 

[BillyJoel]

OH YEAH!?!?!?

My mom said I'm the handsomest boy on earth and I'm going to dentistry. So dentistry must be best. ***drops mic, takes shirt off, puts on sunglasses, tips fedora (m'lady), rides off on magnificent rainbow shaded unsaddled unicorn while carrying a plate of bacon shaped into a turkey towards the sunset***

 

[TheBoiii]

You still haven't provided concrete data proving exactly how DO is more difficult than dental. You're just going in circles at this point.

Neither have you. I think others have provided the numbers for us though, and looking at the most recent numbers (NOT 2008...bc things have really changed for DO schools in the last 5 years...strong stats people are no longer going to the carribean as much..) you'll see DO>Dental.

I will end my arguement here. I have a feeling that you're just a dental student who considered applying MD but either didnt have the numbers/felt that it was too competitive and is bitter because you didn't consider DO enough. I could be way off of course and you could've just been a die-hard pre-dental student since freshman year loz (yea right)

 

[arkenstone]

If I spent more time on the pre-med boards, maybe I'd see these linked, but these videos are an endless source of entertainment for me




(no idea where they come from but you can find tons more in the related videos)

 

[Dipdoc]

Neither have you. I think others have provided the numbers for us though, and looking at the most recent numbers (NOT 2008...bc things have really changed for DO schools in the last 5 years...strong stats people are no longer going to the carribean as much..) you'll see DO>Dental.

I will end my arguement here. I have a feeling that you're just a dental student who considered applying MD but either didnt have the numbers/felt that it was too competitive and is bitter because you didn't consider DO enough. I could be way off of course and you could've just been a die-hard pre-dental student since freshman year loz (yea right)

I haven't provided numbers because I don't care to prove that one is harder than the other. I don't care. You're the one that desperately has something to prove remember? And believe what you want, it doesn't affect me. But we all know you couldn't get into MD, so that's another story.

 

[Dipdoc]

If I spent more time on the pre-med boards, maybe I'd see these linked, but these videos are an endless source of entertainment for me




(no idea where they come from but you can find tons more in the related videos)

That is the most hilarious thing I've watched in a long time.

 

[TheBoiii]

I haven't provided numbers because I don't care to prove that one is harder than the other. I don't care. You're the one that desperately has something to prove remember? And believe what you want, it doesn't affect me. But we all know you couldn't get into MD, so that's another story.

Actually, I decided to accept my DO offer at a school that has MD range stats. my gpa is up there and only my mcat is lacking. If I really wanted MD, I could've just retaken and applied next cycle. haha so much for trying to win that one..

You on the other hand, i feel sorry for. There is clearly an anti-DO or DO is less than MD sentiment in your head. ah well, you've chosen dentistry over DO that was your decision.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Neither have you. I think others have provided the numbers for us though, and looking at the most recent numbers (NOT 2008...bc things have really changed for DO schools in the last 5 years...strong stats people are no longer going to the carribean as much..) you'll see DO>Dental.

I will end my arguement here. I have a feeling that you're just a dental student who considered applying MD but either didnt have the numbers/felt that it was too competitive and is bitter because you didn't consider DO enough. I could be way off of course and you could've just been a die-hard pre-dental student since freshman year loz (yea right)

Almost no one uses dental school as a backup for medical school. It's nearly impossible due to the dental related work you must do over a period of time. Most applicants who would be competitive for dental school would be competitive for medical school.

 

[TheBoiii]

Almost no one uses dental school as a backup for medical school. It's nearly impossible due to the dental related work you must do over a period of time. Most applicants who would be competitive for dental school would be competitive for medical school.

I don't mean that they use it as a back up, rather, the "hmm med school seems hard to get into, maybe i'll try dental school" ideology is definately prevelant. Wheter these kids get in or not i have no idea, but my only point was they they'll have an easier time, generally, getting into ANY dental school than ANY DO.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Actually, I decided to accept my DO offer at a school that has MD range stats. my gpa is up there and only my mcat is lacking. If I really wanted MD, I could've just retaken and applied next cycle. haha so much for trying to win that one..

You on the other hand, i feel sorry for. There is clearly an anti-DO or DO is less than MD sentiment in your head. ah well, you've chosen dentistry over DO that was your decision.

Again, no one chooses DDS/DMD over DO - the application process for each are so unrelated (beyond the standard prereqs) as to render the comparison pointless. You have a serious chip on your shoulder.

 

[TheBoiii]

I'm just argueing the point this OP brought up. honestly i never even seriously debated the two before this thread haha. I thought it was pretty obvious...

no chip on my shoulder, Wasn't this thread a debate? why must i have some personal issue...

 

[Daneosaurus]

I'm just argueing the point this OP brought up. honestly i never even seriously debated the two before this thread haha. I thought it was pretty obvious...

no chip on my shoulder, Wasn't this thread a debate? why must i have some personal issue...

It is a debate, but every other post you make bashes dentistry. That is not how debates work.

 

[TheBoiii]

It is a debate, but every other post you make bashes dentistry. That is not how debates work.

lol sorry. Just trynna keep it real.

 

[Dipdoc]

I'm just argueing the point this OP brought up. honestly i never even seriously debated the two before this thread haha. I thought it was pretty obvious...

no chip on my shoulder, Wasn't this thread a debate? why must i have some personal issue...

Because you sound like you have a personal issue. Don't try and attack others because of your own damaged ego.

 

[TheBoiii]

Because you sound like you have a personal issue. Don't try and attack others because of your own damaged ego.

haha I could say the same to you. (you even made your own thread in the pre-dental section, nice!) Goodluck where ever you end up in dentistry with that ego of your own.

EDIT: Hahahah, you even changed your stance in that thread from Dental>DO to the nuetral "can't compare" to avoid people telling you off. even though you clearly believe its still inferior. good move haha

 

[100111]

My Aadsas GPA was actually higher than my aacomas or amcas GPA since they convert A+s differently.

And at the end of the day I'm much happier telling girls at the bar that I'm in med school and I love the extra paid residency options we have vs dental residencies that charge you another 50k/yr tution and have no work hours protection. OMFS residents still live in an era of residency hours equivalent to general surgery in the 80s.

 

[Daneosaurus]

I don't mean that they use it as a back up, rather, the "hmm med school seems hard to get into, maybe i'll try dental school" ideology is definately prevelant. Wheter these kids get in or not i have no idea, but my only point was they they'll have an easier time, generally, getting into ANY dental school than ANY DO.

On the first point maybe, but those applicants soon learn that you must perform just as well in the difficult prereqs to even be remotely competitive to matriculate. I whole-heartedly disagree with the second statement.
Because I was accepted into 2 dental schools at universities, which also house medical schools, on the first round of admissions, we'll use those 2 for references to compare some stats:
University of Pittsburgh:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.63 / DAT: 21 (95.0 percentile)/ admission % (applicants/matriculants): 79/2289 = 3.45%
Medical School (MD) average matriculating GPA: 3.85 / MCAT: 36 (97.1 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 148/5534 = 2.67%
Midwestern University - Arizona Campus:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.56 / DAT: 19 (80.5 percenitle) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 110/2658 = 4.14%
Medical School (DO) average matriculating GPA: 3.51 / MCAT: 28 (66.8 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 256/3746 = 6.83%

I've given you statistics. This is how debate works.

 

[Dipdoc]

haha I could say the same to you. (you even made your own thread in the pre-dental section, nice!) Goodluck where ever you end up in dentistry with that ego of your own.

EDIT: Hahahah, you even changed your stance in that thread from Dental>DO to the nuetral "can't compare" to avoid people telling you off. even though you clearly believe its still inferior. good move haha

Umm. There is not once in this thread that I said Dental>DO. I've always said they were equal and too different to compare. Please re-read my responses and try to keep up, you seem to be falling behind.

 

[100111]

On the first point maybe, but those applicants soon learn that you must perform just as well in the difficult prereqs to even be remotely competitive to matriculate. I whole-heartedly disagree with the second statement.
Because I was accepted into 2 dental schools at universities, which also house medical schools, on the first round of admissions, we'll use those 2 for references to compare some stats:
University of Pittsburgh:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.63 / DAT: 21 (95.0 percentile)/ admission % (applicants/matriculants): 79/2289 = 3.45%
Medical School (MD) average matriculating GPA: 3.85 / MCAT: 36 (97.1 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 148/5534 = 2.67%
Midwestern University - Arizona Campus:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.56 / DAT: 19 (80.5 percenitle) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 110/2658 = 4.14%
Medical School (DO) average matriculating GPA: 3.51 / MCAT: 28 (66.8 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 256/3746 = 6.83%

I've given you statistics. This is how debate works.

Thats so far from a logical analysis that makes me believe you're not being srs.

The GPA between the application services is not comparable, the MCAT/DAT percentiles are not comparable, applicants:matriculants ratio is not comparable due to self-selection, and the ECs needed for dental school vs med school is not comparable.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Thats so far from a logical analysis that makes me believe you're not being srs.

The GPA between the application services is not comparable, the MCAT/DAT percentiles are not comparable, applicants:matriculants ratio is not comparable due to self-selection, and the ECs needed for dental school vs med school is not comparable.

Come up with a better metric, then. It was my thinking that using admission stats from the same university for different programs, while not perfect, is a decent indicator of selectivity of those schools. I was simply comparing admission statistics as I am having trouble coming up with another quantitative measure (thusly, I am not being selected for a job in math modeling).

 

[100111]

Come up with a better metric, then. It was my thinking that using admission stats from the same university for different programs, while not perfect, is a decent indicator of selectivity of those schools. I was simply comparing admission statistics as I am having trouble coming up with another quantitative measure (thusly, I am not being selected for a job in math modeling).

There isn't one and there won't be one until somebody takes a sizable portion of MD, do, and dds students and gives them all an IQ test or puts them through the same curriculum and measures their performance.

What you did is the equivalent of Psy.D students trying to use the same exact analysis you actually did to say their state univeristy program is harder to get into that harvard med.

Why can't the dentists here gtfo and enjoy their chill lifestyles and the med students head down to the bar and drop panties with the med school/doctor line

 

[GypsyHummus]

Now, I have heard that DDS doctors have more residency opportunities

 

[IslandStyle808]

Thats so far from a logical analysis that makes me believe you're not being srs.

The GPA between the application services is not comparable, the MCAT/DAT percentiles are not comparable, applicants:matriculants ratio is not comparable due to self-selection, and the ECs needed for dental school vs med school is not comparable.

More like there is no way you can make one, unless you make them all take the same classes and test. Yet 70% of the post here are trying to make some kind of conclusion.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Why can't the dentists here gtfo and enjoy their chill lifestyles and the med students head down to the bar and drop panties with the med school/doctor line

I should have made this my first post. Then this thread would have been a whole lot better.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

On the first point maybe, but those applicants soon learn that you must perform just as well in the difficult prereqs to even be remotely competitive to matriculate. I whole-heartedly disagree with the second statement.
Because I was accepted into 2 dental schools at universities, which also house medical schools, on the first round of admissions, we'll use those 2 for references to compare some stats:
University of Pittsburgh:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.63 / DAT: 21 (95.0 percentile)/ admission % (applicants/matriculants): 79/2289 = 3.45%
Medical School (MD) average matriculating GPA: 3.85 / MCAT: 36 (97.1 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 148/5534 = 2.67%
Midwestern University - Arizona Campus:
Dental School (DMD) average matriculating GPA: 3.56 / DAT: 19 (80.5 percenitle) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 110/2658 = 4.14%
Medical School (DO) average matriculating GPA: 3.51 / MCAT: 28 (66.8 percentile) / admission % (applicants/matriculants): 256/3746 = 6.83%

I've given you statistics. This is how debate works.

I think you are missing a very key point here... How easy it is to get 80 percentile in the DAT vs. the MCAT?

 

[Daneosaurus]

More like there is no way you can make one, unless you make them all take the same classes and test. Yet 70% of the post here are trying to make some kind of conclusion.

Concur. Instead of brazenly stating an opinion I at least attempted to make some sense of items that were remotely comparable. I agree, my method certainly isn't the best (some would argue illogical, in fact), but it was an attempt.