do vs md bedside manner :)

[gujuDoc]

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How is that a common symbol?...

Also, I'm afraid I have to side with dozitgetchahi here (btw, I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce your name in my head). A bunch of disclaimers are placed into these posts just so you people wouldn't react this way (e.g. "this is bull****"). Let's have an open mind here, shall we?

While I agree that there's no logical reason why a physician with a DO degree would be any different from an MD-wielding physician...isn't there the slight possibility that there might still be some difference? In the grand scheme of things, no two things are actually equal on all levels. We already know that DO schools look for different qualities and characteristics when choosing their students as compared to MD schools. Aren't pre-meds who decide to apply MD-only sometimes arrogant, obnoxious, and just a little close-minded? Who's to say that the difference in applicants accepted by MD and DO schools (not to say there's not much overlap; there is) can't carry over to actual practice?

My point is: it's not the osteopathic program that somehow makes a medical student holistic and more "patient-centered"...it's the type of applicants that decide that they want to do osteopathic medicine. They may have different values and goals going in that translate to the differences one may see in practice. Hence, it IS individual, but an individual may be more likely to want to go MD, or more likely to want to go DO; it may be skewed depending on the quality you're looking at.

My two cents; don't kill me now. 🙄

It is but you must not know many cultures to get what my name means or my symbol means though most people I know get it pretty quickly.

That said, lets not turn this into being about me. I don't know why a thread has to be about a person's avatar as it is irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

Since you are all so smart it is not hard to figure out for yourself. And yes it is a common symbol to anyone who is not culturally ignorant.

That said, this is about DO vs. MD and bedside manner.

I will stress again that DOs nor MDs nor FMGs/IMGs vs. those trained in the states are necessarily better then one or another.

I've met some pretty ****ty FMGs and some really great ones. I've met some pretty ****ty DOs and some great ones. I've met some pretty ****ty MDs and some great ones. And then there are the ones who are competent but not necessarily nice and there are the ones that are nice but not necessarily competent. And then there are those physicians who are neither competent nor nice and pretty shady and unethical. You want to be a good physician, you will determine for yourself what kinda physician you become, not your degree. Your degree will be the gateway to getting there but DO vs. MD is a useless debate.

Likewise, it is like saying DOs are somehow always more holistic in their approach to medicine then MDs. Yet, quite a few DOs I talk to will tell you they did DO route because they wanted to get into medicine and couldn't make it in the MD schools due to lower scores or just liked a DO school they chose better then some of the schools they were accepted to in the MD realm, but don't necessarily believe the overall philosophy to be superior or utterly different MD schools. In fact, most DOs I talk to rarely are found using the very basis of what made MD and DO schools different---in other words they don't use OMM at all.

In fact, quite many of them are impossible to tell from an MD because their is no difference in the way they implement treatments. In fact, when it came down to proper training for their field, many of them were trained by MDs in MD residency programs. And even if DOs were present in the teaching process, the programs were AMA rather then AOA accredited programs and therefore were taught how they teach to MDs in residency.

Therefore, I don't believe this to be a huge difference.

However, that said, I do see some relevance in the point that a lot of DO grads are either nontrads or those who might have had slightly lower scores in one area but whom were taken on a whole beyond their numbers. On the other hand, a lot of MD students (albeit not all) are students who have never even failed anything in life and have had limited life experiences, limited struggles, etc. So perhaps there may seem to be a difference in what some people perceive to be the personalities of different students in different programs. But even so, I still believe that there will be both good and bad docs on all sides and in the end we are what we make of our education and choose to be.

Holding a DO or holding an MD is not what will make a compassionate or a competent physician. One is not automatically more competent then the other and one is not automatically more compassionate then the other. We are what we are and who we become as a physician will be decided upon by us and the kind of people we are, not by the degree we hold or school we went to.

 

[phospho]

DOs are taught to treat the whole person, body mind and spirit in school.

I'm glad someone out there is taught how to do that!

 

[pyropig]

Well If it's any indication, the people on the DO boards are sure a lot nicer and more helpful than over on the MD boards. The MD board is full of pompous ****s that like to beat their chests and tell everyone how inferior they all are.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Well If it's any indication, the people on the DO boards are sure a lot nicer and more helpful than over on the MD boards. The MD board is full of pompous ****s that like to beat their chests and tell everyone how inferior they all are.

You're leaving out the N-values and "mob effect." 😉

 

[Jamers]

It is but you must not know many cultures to get what my name means or my symbol means though most people I know get it pretty quickly.

That said, lets not turn this into being about me. I don't know why a thread has to be about a person's avatar as it is irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

Since you are all so smart it is not hard to figure out for yourself. And yes it is a common symbol to anyone who is not culturally ignorant.

That said, this is about DO vs. MD and bedside manner.

I will stress again that DOs nor MDs nor FMGs/IMGs vs. those trained in the states are necessarily better then one or another.

I've met some pretty ****ty FMGs and some really great ones. I've met some pretty ****ty DOs and some great ones. I've met some pretty ****ty MDs and some great ones. And then there are the ones who are competent but not necessarily nice and there are the ones that are nice but not necessarily competent. And then there are those physicians who are neither competent nor nice and pretty shady and unethical. You want to be a good physician, you will determine for yourself what kinda physician you become, not your degree. Your degree will be the gateway to getting there but DO vs. MD is a useless debate.

Likewise, it is like saying DOs are somehow always more holistic in their approach to medicine then MDs. Yet, quite a few DOs I talk to will tell you they did DO route because they wanted to get into medicine and couldn't make it in the MD schools due to lower scores or just liked a DO school they chose better then some of the schools they were accepted to in the MD realm, but don't necessarily believe the overall philosophy to be superior or utterly different MD schools. In fact, most DOs I talk to rarely are found using the very basis of what made MD and DO schools different---in other words they don't use OMM at all.

In fact, quite many of them are impossible to tell from an MD because their is no difference in the way they implement treatments. In fact, when it came down to proper training for their field, many of them were trained by MDs in MD residency programs. And even if DOs were present in the teaching process, the programs were AMA rather then AOA accredited programs and therefore were taught how they teach to MDs in residency.

Therefore, I don't believe this to be a huge difference.

However, that said, I do see some relevance in the point that a lot of DO grads are either nontrads or those who might have had slightly lower scores in one area but whom were taken on a whole beyond their numbers. On the other hand, a lot of MD students (albeit not all) are students who have never even failed anything in life and have had limited life experiences, limited struggles, etc. So perhaps there may seem to be a difference in what some people perceive to be the personalities of different students in different programs. But even so, I still believe that there will be both good and bad docs on all sides and in the end we are what we make of our education and choose to be.

Holding a DO or holding an MD is not what will make a compassionate or a competent physician. One is not automatically more competent then the other and one is not automatically more compassionate then the other. We are what we are and who we become as a physician will be decided upon by us and the kind of people we are, not by the degree we hold or school we went to.

Wow...someone thinks highly of themselves. Just for the record: it is impossible to know everything, including every culture in the world. To help us "culturally ignorant" individuals, people who know something we do not actually are willing to share this information.

 

[gujuDoc]

Wow...someone thinks highly of themselves. Just for the record: it is impossible to know everything, including every culture in the world. To help us "culturally ignorant" individuals, people who know something we do not actually are willing to share this information.

Get off of it. They started it by cursing at me over something that has nothing to do with this topic and coming off as pretty rude in doing so.

I don't feel the need to explain myself as this is besides the point of this thread.

Now if you have something real to contribute to this thread, then I suggest doing so but if you have nothing to contribute, then why even post in the thread.

 

[Jamers]

Get off of it. They started it by cursing at me over something that has nothing to do with this topic and coming off as pretty rude in doing so.

I don't feel the need to explain myself as this is besides the point of this thread.

Now if you have something real to contribute to this thread, then I suggest doing so but if you have nothing to contribute, then why even post in the thread.

I think we have established that it is only a curse in select cultures. If you would like to pretend to be the cultural master, that is great. Just don't try to make everyone else follow your path. Also, the other individual who asked did not "curse" yet you insulted them calling them ignorant and implying a lack of intelligence.

There is no difference between DO and MD bedside mannerism. To believe so is short sighted. The difference comes from the individual and NOT their degree. It comes down to personality differences that determine how and individual will react to his or her patients. If you get along well with people, chances are you will get along well with your patients. If you think are you high and holy and that everyone else is "culturally ignorant" you might not do so well. 🙂 Have fun.

 

[gujuDoc]

I think we have established that it is only a curse in select cultures. If you would like to pretend to be the cultural master, that is great. Just don't try to make everyone else follow your path. Also, the other individual who asked did not "curse" yet you insulted them calling them ignorant and implying a lack of intelligence.

There is no difference between DO and MD bedside mannerism. To believe so is short sighted. The difference comes from the individual and NOT their degree. It comes down to personality differences that determine how and individual will react to his or her patients. If you get along well with people, chances are you will get along well with your patients. If you think are you high and holy and that everyone else is "culturally ignorant" you might not do so well. 🙂 Have fun.

Pot calling the kettle black there. you know nothing about my relationships with people based on a few posts about an irrelevant matter in a thread that was started by people thinking one degree is holier then the other.

Most people who know me know I get along quite well with others of different backgrounds then mine and other people. I just didn't think the persons who posted in this thread were any more appropriate then the people who were going off on how DO vs. MD was better or FMG vs. US MD was better in terms of bedside manner and niceness.

If you find that offensive that is not my problem. that is far from how most of my dealings with people are otherwise so many people wouldn't come to me for help or confide in me as many do on here and off of here.

 

[Jamers]

Pot calling the kettle black there. you know nothing about my relationships with people based on a few posts about an irrelevant matter in a thread that was started by people thinking one degree is holier then the other.

Most people who know me know I get along quite well with others of different backgrounds then mine and other people. I just didn't think the persons who posted in this thread were any more appropriate then the people who were going off on how DO vs. MD was better or FMG vs. US MD was better in terms of bedside manner and niceness.

If you find that offensive that is not my problem. that is far from how most of my dealings with people are otherwise so many people wouldn't come to me for help or confide in me as many do on here and off of here.

I don't find anything you did offensive. Rather, I find your reaction to something you found offensive overboard. This overboard reaction to something that is only an offense in certain cultures. Honestly, some cultures are offended by the use of a 'thumbs-up' gesture. Am I to forgo using this gesture to appease this culture despite the fact that it is accepted in my own culture? You will meet patients that will say some God awful things to you and you cannot react in the manner you displayed in your post. Just the other day a patient called my preceptor "way too fat to be seen in public."

I agree, MD/DO threads in any form are poor form indeed. Saying that an individual is different simply because of their degrees is *****ic. We are not taught some magic method to caring for patients better at the beside in Osteopathic schools than Allopathic schools.

 

[Aaja]

My hospital has a few DO interns that I've worked with. They don't seem any different from the MD interns in clinical knowledge or empathy. It has more to do with the person.

I'm allo and I'm usually very nice to people and bend the rules by explaining stuff to people. If I'm lacking of time and this person still insists whether her kid with acture hepatitis can eat tuna fish, I kindly tell them "not to be rude, but I have a lot of work to do, sorry". Most people seem to understand.

As for exploring the patient, it seems to depend a lot on the hospital the person trains at as a student and as an intern. I'm being forced to get a lot of hands-on experience at my hospital. A lot of my peers aren't allowed to do much of anything whereas I'm at certain hours THE doctor that has to do clinical exams alone and stuff. But that's getting off-topic. I've seen veteran interns at my hospital that are srtill squeamish to explore patients.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Get off of it. They started it by cursing at me over something that has nothing to do with this topic and coming off as pretty rude in doing so.

I don't feel the need to explain myself as this is besides the point of this thread.

Now if you have something real to contribute to this thread, then I suggest doing so but if you have nothing to contribute, then why even post in the thread.

Jesus Guru ... you need to seriously calm down. Lighten up, you're making yourself look like an ass.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

This isn't the appropriate place for personal bickering. PM each other if you feel the need to do so. 🙂

 

[gujuDoc]

My hospital has a few DO interns that I've worked with. They don't seem any different from the MD interns in clinical knowledge or empathy. It has more to do with the person.

I'm allo and I'm usually very nice to people and bend the rules by explaining stuff to people. If I'm lacking of time and this person still insists whether her kid with acture hepatitis can eat tuna fish, I kindly tell them "not to be rude, but I have a lot of work to do, sorry". Most people seem to understand.

As for exploring the patient, it seems to depend a lot on the hospital the person trains at as a student and as an intern. I'm being forced to get a lot of hands-on experience at my hospital. A lot of my peers aren't allowed to do much of anything whereas I'm at certain hours THE doctor that has to do clinical exams alone and stuff. But that's getting off-topic. I've seen veteran interns at my hospital that are srtill squeamish to explore patients.

I agree with what you said in paragraph 1. Good post. 🙂

What do you mean by squeamish? Squeamish to do what?? Just curious.

 

[binko]

dozitgetchahi here (btw, I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce your name in my head).

I think it's like "does it get you high" (doz it getcha hi)

 

[Jamers]

This isn't the appropriate place for personal bickering. PM each other if you feel the need to do so. 🙂

We still kept on track, even through the "bickering." Furthermore, I think this "bickering" also shows what these threads end up doing; starting fights. So annoyed was guju with the topic of this thread that a normally neutral post caused her to become overly angry. Honestly, we need to stop worrying about who has better bedside manner and concentrate on being the best doctors we can be. The sad truth is no matter what school you attend (MD or DO) being personable and available to your patients comes down to you.

 

[scpod]

Were it not for the fact that I am ultimately happy at this point, since I am officially on 4 weeks of vacation as of 5PM, have plans for a long and wonderful weekend with a blonde-haired blue-eyed hottie, am leaving for Las Vegas to gamble away my financial aid money next week and wrap up with some time in the sun on Amelia Island.... I might just come out and paddle the heck out of a few people here. Why? Because this is the most useless thread I've seen in a while. Bedside manor is not determined by MD or DO degree; it's determined by the individual. That is the final ruling in this case. So, before I leave my SDN powers behind to enjoy myself for a change....I will put this silly little thread to the quick, painless death it deserves. End of transmission...