DO vs MD for ortho hopeful

[shashashaa]

I've tried to nail down a solid answer to whether or not attending a DO school would seriously hurt my chances for eventually matching into an orthopedic residency. I am not opposed to other specialties but I want to keep my options open in the event that I do not change my mind about pursuing ortho.

Thanks!

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[DNC127]

Yes it would. Severely. Prior to the merger you might of actually had a better chance from a DO school. But not now. Especially considering there are less DO spots, and will be 10+ DO schools added since I entered. Not a good time to be a DO and want these competitive specialties.

Save yourself the headache and make yourself competitive for MD. If you can't do that, then just realize you have a big uphill battle for ortho.

 

[Chibucks15]

I've tried to nail down a solid answer to whether or not attending a DO school would seriously hurt my chances for eventually matching into an orthopedic residency. I am not opposed to other specialties but I want to keep my options open in the event that I do not change my mind about pursuing ortho.

Thanks!

Do a search. Yes it will hurt your chances quite a bit for a DO school, and its hard to get into even if you're an MD too

 

[sab3156]

I've tried to nail down a solid answer to whether or not attending a DO school would seriously hurt my chances for eventually matching into an orthopedic residency. I am not opposed to other specialties but I want to keep my options open in the event that I do not change my mind about pursuing ortho.

Thanks!

It will seriously hurt your chances for competitive specialties, and can also seriously limit your program options in less competitive specialties, as well. Go MD, always.

 

[Goro]

I've tried to nail down a solid answer to whether or not attending a DO school would seriously hurt my chances for eventually matching into an orthopedic residency. I am not opposed to other specialties but I want to keep my options open in the event that I do not change my mind about pursuing ortho.

Thanks!

According to the PD's survey, the numbers of them willing to interview and rank candidates are dismal:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf
see page 86
often interview: 6%
seldom interview: 27
never interview: 67

often rank: 6%
seldom rank: 26
never rank: 68

The numbers for IMGs are even worse, FYI.

My school has never sent a grad to an ACGME Ortho residency.

Another FYI, if MD schools catch a whiff of the "X specialty or bust" mentality, that's not good for you either.

 

[shashashaa]

Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate it!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate it!

Dont think it is easy for an MD to match ortho. One of the most competetive specialties. No mediocre applicants need apply. Successful matches are usually in top 10 % of their class, have publications, and are AOA, (alpha omicron alpha honor society. ) I agree it's an uphill battle for DOs. One of our students matched DO program last year.

 

[_Rod_of_Asclepius_]

Impossible? No. Difficult? Yes. If you know this going in and get off to the right start you will probably be ok.
DO is not a death sentence but rather just an extra step or 3 in a world that’s difficult enough

 

[el_duderino]

Your chances of becoming an ortho are zero if you don't go to med school.

If you have the choice between DO and MD, then obviously choose MD. If your choices are DO or nothing, then choose DO.

Don't make this more complicated than it has to be.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Yes, because of the merger, I can't endorse anyone thinking about surgical subspecialties to go to DO school. In fact, even general surgery is dicey at this point considering how many DO programs will not be able to manage to convert to ACGME, which will further restrict the available spots for the pool of applicants.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Your chances of becoming an ortho are zero if you don't go to med school.

If you have the choice between DO and MD, then obviously choose MD. If your choices are DO or nothing, then choose DO.

Don't make this more complicated than it has to be.

This depends. If you can't see yourself doing anything other than surgery subspecialty, I can say doing DO is not a worthwhile gamble anymore. Becoming 300k in debt to be forced to do a job you don't want (eg, primary care) sounds like hell. At this point, I'd rather do pod than gamble with the current situation for DOs to match ortho.

 

[_Rod_of_Asclepius_]

Yes, because of the merger, I can't endorse anyone thinking about surgical subspecialties to go to DO school. In fact, even general surgery is dicey at this point considering how many DO programs will not be able to manage to convert to ACGME, which will further restrict the available spots for the pool of applicants.

Sad but true. I have a lot of exposure to surgery and consider it a possible choice but so worried about the merger

 

[workaholic181]

If you're interested in surgery or in general just keeping all doors open then you should pursue an MD acceptance, whether that means an SMP or whatever is unique to your case. Compare match lists from DO schools to MD programs and you'll see what I'm referring to. No one knows how the merger will play out but it's likely going to make competitive fields more competitive for DOs, who used to have AOA programs that they alone could apply to. A lot of AOA programs have already switched over and are accepting both MDs and DOs now. The really sought after fields (like ortho) are just going to get tougher.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Sad but true. I have a lot of exposure to surgery and consider it a possible choice but so worried about the merger

The merger is a big deal for those substandard applicants who used to be able to sneak into Ortho. Now as a DO you must look like an MD Ortho candidate it's only fair. There will still be a number of residencies that favor DOs, approximately the same amount as before the merger. The advantage is that you can now try to match the ACGME ones too and see what happens. The disadvantage is that the 550-600 comlex score people are going to get squeezed out by deserving MDs, which should absolutely happen. The merger makes things more fair for all, I don't think it is the sky is falling deal everyone thinks it is. Earn your spot. That said if you can go MD there are many more programs that will prefer you.

 

[workaholic181]

The merger is a big deal for those substandard applicants who used to be able to sneak into Ortho. Now as a DO you must look like an MD Ortho candidate it's only fair. There will still be a number of residencies that favor DOs, approximately the same amount as before the merger. The advantage is that you can now try to match the ACGME ones too and see what happens. The disadvantage is that the 550-600 comlex score people are going to get squeezed out by deserving MDs, which should absolutely happen. The merger makes things more fair for all, I don't think it is the sky is falling deal everyone thinks it is. Earn your spot. That said if you can go MD there are many more programs that will prefer you.

Totally agree. It's a huge plus for DO students who otherwise may not have risked forgoing the AOA match to try for ACGME anything to now be able to do both at the same time.

 

[Mad Jack]

Go MD, period

 

[eberge3]

There are 40 AOA DO ortho programs for DO's only right now. Once the merger happens in 2020 there will be 40 programs that will mostly take DO's maybe a few MD's will trickle in. So as long as you kill it you should be fine.

 

[DNC127]

There are 40 AOA DO ortho programs for DO's only right now. Once the merger happens in 2020 there will be 40 programs that will mostly take DO's maybe a few MD's will trickle in. So as long as you kill it you should be fine.

There are currently only 21 with initial accreditation or continued accreditation.

 

[eberge3]

There are currently only 21 with initial accreditation or continued accreditation.

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...fffe56d82-3DEF93D6-9D31-99C4-ABA720A7FCFCE2BA

Looks like there are 40 programs, 1 will be closing and the rest have initial / continued accreditation. But I may be wrong

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...fffe56d82-3DEF93D6-9D31-99C4-ABA720A7FCFCE2BA

Looks like there are 40 programs, 1 will be closing and the rest have initial / continued accreditation. But I may be wrong

He means actual ACGME accreditation when he says "continued accreditation." A little confusing because none of the programs have true continued accreditation. Continued pre-accreditation means they haven't actually gotten ACGME accreditation yet. None of the programs are true "continued accreditation" because that is when ACGME comes for a site visit 3 years after receiving initial accreditation and then the programs get the full 10 year ACGME accreditation.

 

[DNC127]

He means actual ACGME accreditation when he says "continued accreditation." A little confusing because none of the programs have true continued accreditation. Continued pre-accreditation means they haven't actually gotten ACGME accreditation yet. None of the programs are true "continued accreditation" because that is when ACGME comes for a site visit 3 years after receiving initial accreditation and then the programs get the full 10 year ACGME accreditation.

https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/ReportRun?ReportId=18&CurrentYear=2018&SpecialtyCode=260

17 have initial accred
3 have continued accred w/o outcome (had 3 year site visit)
21 have not received accred

so I was wrong. Its only 20

 

[DNC127]

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...fffe56d82-3DEF93D6-9D31-99C4-ABA720A7FCFCE2BA

Looks like there are 40 programs, 1 will be closing and the rest have initial / continued accreditation. But I may be wrong

look on the acgme site. AOA accred will not matter after next year.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

3 have continued accred w/o outcome (had 3 year site visit)

Ah I didn't know there were programs that had gotten that far yet.

 

[eberge3]

I believe it is assumed that if the programs are not closing then they plan on being ACGME accredited.

 

[DNC127]

I believe it is assumed that if the programs are not closing then they plan on being ACGME accredited.

Again, wrong. I know of specific programs on that list that are not closing for this year, yet KNOW they will not be getting ACGME accreditation and have sent emails to the rotating students essentially indicating such. AOA =/= ACGME.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I believe it is assumed that if the programs are not closing then they plan on being ACGME accredited.

No.

 

[blastokine]

Yes it would. Severely. Prior to the merger you might of actually had a better chance from a DO school. But not now. Especially considering there are less DO spots, and will be 10+ DO schools added since I entered. Not a good time to be a DO and want these competitive specialties.

Save yourself the headache and make yourself competitive for MD. If you can't do that, then just realize you have a big uphill battle for ortho.

How is it looking for anesthesiology?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How is it looking for anesthesiology?

Please for the love of god people, read charting outcomes.

Anesthesiology is not competitive.

 

[DNC127]

How is it looking for anesthesiology?

do you have a pulse? If so you should be good. If not, you should still be good.

 

[deleted600623]

do you have a pulse? If so you should be good. If not, you should still be good.

Why is it not as competitive? Salary is in the upper echelon of specialties. Is it because of the CRNAs?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Why is it not as competitive? Salary is in the upper echelon of specialties. Is it because of the CRNAs?

 

[Magus5454]

That poor poor horse

 

[deleted600623]

Lol I didn’t really mean the last part but still curious as to why it’s not competitive?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Please for the love of god people, read charting outcomes.

Anesthesiology is not competitive.

Also, didn’t most of the AOA programs transition well to acgme?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also, didn’t most of the AOA programs transition well to acgme?

Yeah, there are only about 13 of them though I believe.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Yeah, there are only about 13 of them though I believe.

Lol that’s what I thought. It’s funny bc AOA anesthesia was looked down upon in the past and all of them immediately met ACGME accreditation.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Why is it not as competitive? Salary is in the upper echelon of specialties. Is it because of the CRNAs?

Job market sucks from what I've heard.

I didn't see this myself, but a friend of mine who had rotated at one of our core sites said that all the Anesthesiology procedures are done by CRNAs under the supervision of surgeons.