DO vs. MD salaries??

[DrFeelgoodMD]

I was wondering if someone could tell me the differences between the two...if there are any differences.

Thanks,

J

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[gogo110182]

NO period

do a search for detail

 

[atrovariousg]

unreal

 

[Nate]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=240220

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm

 

[hannahx]

I was wondering if someone could tell me the differences between the two...if there are any differences.

Thanks,

J

Question has been asked many times before. Hopefully this will not start another of the "Why (blank) is better than (blank)" threads..

As far as I know, it doesn't matter. Seems like most physician compensation surveys are completed by the general medical population - and since most DOs/MDs work right along with each other there's no way to tell through an anonymous survey.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask about stuff like... do competent doctors make more/get better residencies than incompetent ones?

You work hard. You don't kill too many people, it will pay off, no?

 

[toofache32]

Why would you get paid differently for performing the same procedure(s)?

 

[dr.z]

Why would you get paid differently for performing the same procedure(s)?

 

[SuperTrooper]

unreal

It really isn't that unreal. I was actually wondering the same thing myself. Some people like me just don't know anything about DOs; i hadn't even heard of them before I came on SDN. But if you're critizing this person's failure to use the search function, then fine, but I think 95% of us are guilty of this.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Why would you get paid differently for performing the same procedure(s)?

Hey toofache32, how come there are no DO oral surgery programs?

 

[Shinken]

I was wondering if someone could tell me the differences between the two...if there are any differences.

Thanks,

J

It really depends on geographic area and specialty, but on average in urban areas, DOs in primary care make about $50,000 less a year than MDs. In most specialties, including surgical and medical specialties (nephro, cardio, etc.) DOs make about $120,000 less a year than MDs.

As far as how can someone be reimbursed differently for the same procedures, insurance companies require the osteopathic "9e7" prefix for all coded procedures, which means that all DOs that perform any procedures have to code them as 9e7-XXXXX to alert insurance companies that a DO performed the procedure so they can lower the reimbursement accordingly.

 

[OSUdoc08]

It really depends on geographic area and specialty, but on average in urban areas, DOs in primary care make about $50,000 less a year than MDs. In most specialties, including surgical and medical specialties (nephro, cardio, etc.) DOs make about $120,000 less a year than MDs.

As far as how can someone be reimbursed differently for the same procedures, insurance companies require the osteopathic "9e7" prefix for all coded procedures, which means that all DOs that perform any procedures have to code them as 9e7-XXXXX to alert insurance companies that a DO performed the procedure so they can lower the reimbursement accordingly.

What is your problem? The job you apply for is as a physician, in whatever specialty it may be. The degree is irrelevant, since you have become a board certified & licensed physician beyond that degree.

Why would you spread lies on here, when you obviously have no clue?

 

[goinverted]

Hey toofache32, how come there are no DO oral surgery programs?

If you do your research you can only do maxillofacial surgery (oral surgery) by first attending a dental school. So whether MD or DO you are out of luck.

 

[Dr. MAXY]

It really depends on geographic area and specialty, but on average in urban areas, DOs in primary care make about $50,000 less a year than MDs. In most specialties, including surgical and medical specialties (nephro, cardio, etc.) DOs make about $120,000 less a year than MDs.

As far as how can someone be reimbursed differently for the same procedures, insurance companies require the osteopathic "9e7" prefix for all coded procedures, which means that all DOs that perform any procedures have to code them as 9e7-XXXXX to alert insurance companies that a DO performed the procedure so they can lower the reimbursement accordingly.

WOW. What the heck, are you S**ting me.

 

[toofache32]

If you do your research you can only do maxillofacial surgery (oral surgery) by first attending a dental school. So whether MD or DO you are out of luck.

And there are no OMFS programs affiliated with any DO schools for whatever reason.

 

[SuperTrooper]

If you do your research you can only do maxillofacial surgery (oral surgery) by first attending a dental school. So whether MD or DO you are out of luck.

Yeah, I'm in dental school so I know this. Half of all oral surgery programs involve these dentists receiving an MD.

 

[OSUdoc08]

And there are no OMFS programs affiliated with any DO schools for whatever reason.

It shouldn't matter, since DO's can apply to all MD residencies.

 

[goinverted]

And there are no OMFS programs affiliated with any DO schools for whatever reason.

Both of you are talking about something completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if there aren't any oral surgery spots in Osteopathic medicine. You are in DENTAL SCHOOL, not medical school. So no one really cares if there is or isn't a spot.

 

[goinverted]

If anyone really wanted to do OMFS then they would have went to dental school, not Allopathic or Osteopathic medical

 

[SuperTrooper]

Why would you get paid differently for performing the same procedure(s)?

Anyhow, what i was trying to get at is that this is sort of a stupid comment. Where I'm from both doctors and nurses can give vaccine shots. However, I almost always get the shot from the doctor because they get paid more for that procedure than a nurse would. Why do they get paid more? Liability, potential complications, i dunno. I'm not trying to compare nurses to DOs, but people who don't know anything about DOs (like me a few weeks ago) might think that DOs have more focus in different areas so they might not be as competent (technically, legally) in certain areas. I now know that DOs know everything MDs do. Anyhow, I feel bad for DOs here because anytime somebody asks a question that potentially makes a DO look inferior (i.e. salary), you get DOs snapping back rudely in my eyes. Once you guys get out practicing you won't really care, and nobody else will either. Regardless, I really think that they shouldn't use the title DO: i think it should be like MD(O).

 

[SuperTrooper]

If anyone really wanted to do OMFS then they would have went to dental school, not Allopathic or Osteopathic medical

ok buddy.

 

[SuperTrooper]

If anyone really wanted to do OMFS then they would have went to dental school, not Allopathic or Osteopathic medical

To become an oral surgeon:
(1) Yes, you MUST first go to dental school.
(2) Then, you do oral surgery residency.

Oral surgery residencies are half 4-year programs, half 6-year programs. In the 6-year programs you do two years of critical med school rotations, and you get your MD. So, some oral surgeons have both an MD and a DDS/DMD such as toofache will. The point I was trying to make in a round-about way is that DO schools might not really focus so much on more high payment stuff like surgery (maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me). This may explain why people might have the incorrect idea that DOs make less.

 

[goinverted]

To become an oral surgeon:
(1) Yes, you MUST first go to dental school.
(2) Then, you do oral surgery residency.

Oral surgery residencies are half 4-year programs, half 6-year programs. In the 6-year programs you do two years of critical med school rotations, and you get your MD. So, some oral surgeons have both an MD and a DDS/DMD such as toofache will. The point I was trying to make in a round-about way is that DO schools might not really focus so much on stuff like surgery (maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me). This may explain why people might have the incorrect idea that DOs make less.

I'm just saying that the point was brought up that there were no DO spots for oral surgery. Technically there aren't any MD spots either, you have to go to dental school first. Yes you end up having an MD degree, but you can't say I chose to go to MD school because they have spots for Dental grads to to oral surgery. How the freak does that apply to anyone applying to medical school. Yes, the majority of DO schools encourage primary care, but KCOM had one of the most impressive specialty matches (including surgery) that I have ever seen.

http://www.kcom.edu/admissns/pdfs/Residency_Info_2003.pdf

11 Ortho surgery matches, 15 Anesthesia, plenty of Diagnostic radiology, more than 9 general surgery. All in the same year. Tell me how many MD schools have that good of a match.

 

[bkpa2med]

To become an oral surgeon:
(1) Yes, you MUST first go to dental school.
(2) Then, you do oral surgery residency.

Oral surgery residencies are half 4-year programs, half 6-year programs. In the 6-year programs you do two years of critical med school rotations, and you get your MD. So, some oral surgeons have both an MD and a DDS/DMD such as toofache will. The point I was trying to make in a round-about way is that DO schools might not really focus so much on more high payment stuff like surgery (maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me). This may explain why people might have the incorrect idea that DOs make less.

Nope. Most DO's that I know are General Surgery Residents.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Nope. Most DO's that I know are General Surgery Residents.

Yeah, but are they residents at DO medical schools, or MD medical schools?

None of this matters. I just wanted to make the point that some people don't know a lot about DOs and you should never take questions negatively. Unless they ask them in a clearly condescending and obnoxious manner, then you slap them! Good luck guys.

 

[OSUdoc08]

To become an oral surgeon:
(1) Yes, you MUST first go to dental school.
(2) Then, you do oral surgery residency.

Oral surgery residencies are half 4-year programs, half 6-year programs. In the 6-year programs you do two years of critical med school rotations, and you get your MD. So, some oral surgeons have both an MD and a DDS/DMD such as toofache will. The point I was trying to make in a round-about way is that DO schools might not really focus so much on more high payment stuff like surgery (maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me). This may explain why people might have the incorrect idea that DOs make less.

A DO surgeon and an MD surgeon that work in the same practice make the exact same salary. The point you don't understand is that once you complete your residency, you are hired based upon your board certification. The degree you got in medical school is irrelevant.

It shouldn't matter what the school "focuses on" since you can complete ANY residency upon graduation.

 

[SuperTrooper]

A DO surgeon and an MD surgeon that work in the same practice make the exact same salary. The point you don't understand is that once you complete your residency, you are hired based upon your board certification. The degree you got in medical school is irrelevant.

It shouldn't matter what the school "focuses on" since you can complete ANY residency upon graduation.

Yeah, but from what I understand a higher percentage of DOs go into general/family practice. Fewer DOs go into specialty residencies compared to MDs (is this correct?). I guess I was thinking of strictly the DO or MD degree. I understand that my thoughts have flaws, but I was just trying to describe how a lay-person might view things; and that this view may NOT be based on the (false) idea that DOs are somehow lesser doctors.

 

[toofache32]

If anyone really wanted to do OMFS then they would have went to dental school, not Allopathic or Osteopathic medical

should have went?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yeah, but from what I understand a higher percentage of DOs go into general/family practice. Fewer DOs go into specialty residencies compared to MDs (is this correct?). I guess I was thinking of strictly the DO or MD degree. I understand that my thoughts have flaws, but I was just trying to describe how a lay-person might view things; and that this view may NOT be based on the (false) idea that DOs are somehow lesser doctors.

What's your point?

The MD's that go into family practice make the same as DO's that go into family practice.

The salaries are the same.

 

[nycom914]

Physician salaries (MD/DO both PHYSICIANS) are based on reimbursement from insurance companies and Medicaid Medicare. The insurance companies pay out according to the CPT billing code which does not have anything to do with DO or MD. The one caveat is that in order to qualify for certain insurance companies a PHYSICIAN (MD/DO) must be board eligible or in some cases board certified.

 

[rahulazcom]

First, let me say that I agree with everyone here; I don't think there is a discrepancy in pay. I haven't personally witnessed this nor have any people I have spoken to mention anything about this.

If I had to play devil's advocate, I suppose it's possible that a prestigious and popular group MIGHT not hire a DO because they feel the DO would bring down the image of the practice if everyone is an M.D. Partners of popular and prestigious groups tend to earn more money because their patients consists almost privately insured patients so they get reimbursed more per patient as opposed to an inexperienced group that accepts a large percentage of patients on medicare and HMO's. However, this group would likely not hire foreign grads either.

But I think this is stretching it. I believe most groups hire based on the personality of the physician and whether or not he or she will fit in with the group and be someone that patients would like to see.

 

[OSUdoc08]

First, let me say that I agree with everyone here; I don't think there is a discrepancy in pay. I haven't personally witnessed this nor have any people I have spoken to mention anything about this.

If I had to play devil's advocate, I suppose it's possible that a prestigious and popular group MIGHT not hire a DO because they feel the DO would bring down the image of the practice if everyone is an M.D. This group would likely not hire foreign grads either. But I think this is stretching it. I believe most groups hire based on the personality of the physician and whether or not he or she will fit in with the group and be someone that patients would like to see.

This does happen, but it wouldn't affect the pay of a DO in a different physician group in the same specialty. (i.e. the pay would be equivalent)

 

[goinverted]

should have went?

Wow, what a typical response, if there is nothing else to say, let's critique his spelling and grammar! Yay!

 

[rahulazcom]

Sorry repeat post

 

[rahulazcom]

This does happen, but it wouldn't affect the pay of a DO in a different physician group in the same specialty. (i.e. the pay would be equivalent)

That depends on how popular that other physician group is. If the other groups is not as popular then it they will be forced to seeing patients who are not as well insured (ie not as well reimbursed per patient) That can influence a physician's pay considerably.

 

[OSUdoc08]

That depends on how popular that other physician group is. If the other groups is not as popular then it they will be forced to seeing patients who are not as well insured (ie not as well reimbursed per patient) That can influence a physician's pay considerably.

Although this may be true, there is certainly a more popular DO/MD group in another town that makes the same money or even more.

It all equalizes in the end.

 

[rahulazcom]

What is your problem? The job you apply for is as a physician, in whatever specialty it may be. The degree is irrelevant, since you have become a board certified & licensed physician beyond that degree.

Why would you spread lies on here, when you obviously have no clue?

Well said! I thought Shinken was being sarcastic. That's how absurd and false his information was

 

[rahulazcom]

Although this may be true, there is certainly a more popular DO/MD group in another town that makes the same money or even more.

It all equalizes in the end.

Oh I agree with you. Like I said, I was just stretching and trying to play devils advocate. In reality, there are more than enough groups to join that are popular and well received. Truth be told, I think a physician's appearance probably plays a bigger role in this than many would like to believe.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Oh I agree with you. Like I said, I was just stretching and trying to play devils advocate. In reality, there are more than enough groups to join that are popular and well received. Truth be told, I think a physician's appearance probably plays a bigger role in this than many would like to believe.

I agree.

Many people equate good appearance with good health.

If you look terrible, then you probably aren't very healthy.

If you can't care for yourself, how can you possibly care for others?

(not only poor physical appearance, but poor grooming could allude to poor health)

 

[toofache32]

Wow, what a typical response, if there is nothing else to say, let's critique his spelling and grammar! Yay!

Just a pet peeve. I'm kind of an old fart and I think we should at least master Engrish and speling.

 

[goinverted]

I think if we were submitting a research paper for publication then the correction would be valid, but it's a stupid forum where most of us post and go and rarely, if ever, proofread.

 

[dtn3t]

If anyone really wanted to do OMFS then they would have went to dental school, not Allopathic or Osteopathic medical

Yes, but as stated in another post, some OMFS programs award an MD afterwards, I think one of the posters was asking why there aren't any OMFS programs affilated with a DO school.

 

[JakeHarley]

Edit:

Oops...spouted off at the mouth before reading whole thread.

 

[SuperTrooper]

What's your point?

Yeah, I'm not really sure what I was trying to say in the last few posts about DOs and salary. I got off track from my initial point of just saying that somebody asking about DO salary or whatever isn't necessarily trying to bash DOs.

 

[Shinken]

I love SDN.

No matter how obviously outrageous and silly I make my posts, many people still buy them.

I thought maybe including something about a "special prefix" for coding would give it away, but again I was wrong.

By the way, *and I'm totally serious this time* I was told by several hospital directors that DOs aren't allowed to work in hospitals, only in rural clinics and only as hourly employees with no benefits.

No, seriously!

 

[DarkWingDuck]

I love SDN.

No matter how obviously outrageous and silly I make my posts, many people still buy them.

I thought maybe including something about a "special prefix" for coding would give it away, but again I was wrong.

By the way, *and I'm totally serious this time* I was told by several hospital directors that DOs aren't allowed to work in hospitals, only in rural clinics and only as hourly employees with no benefits.

No, seriously!

HILARIOUS!!!

I only read the bottom half of your post, and was trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with you. I re-read it and then......

 

[Beau Geste]

should have went?

I hear you toofache. If you want to be a professional, not only do you have to look the part, but sound the part when you open your mouth. Being a student is a good time to practice. Not to rip on the poster, but to just make the comment in general.

 

[Shinken]

HILARIOUS!!!

I only read the bottom half of your post, and was trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with you. I re-read it and then......

I'm glad some people here have a sense of humor (are you paying attention, OSUdoc08? Thanks for the private message full of expletives, by the way).

I've gone through all the stages of SDN:

1) Lurker = reading messages without posting

2) Registered user = finally registering, especially after making the decision to become a pre-med and going for it!

3) Naive poster = Naively thinking that people actually give a crap about what I think or know. This stage is characterized by self-righteous posts like OSUdoc08's who calls me a f**ing idiot for having a sense of humor. It's also characterized by long, rambling posts (do a search and you'll find my long, rambling posts of the past)

4) Student doctor poster = Finally in med school and realizing that most posts in SDN are crap

5) Jaded poster = I'm currently at this stage. My posts are limited to two kinds: (1) Answering questions to posters in the pre-DO forum that have genuine questions about my school (OU-COM) and (2) reading and posting messages for comic relief.

It's always fun to reply to posts like these, particularly when there are people out there that take me seriously! (I love it!)

I used to get bent out of shape by all the ignorance out there about osteopathic medicine (and all the trolls and the people that fed them in this forum), but now I realized it's just a way to relax and have a good time in between exams.

 

[goinverted]

I hear you toofache. If you want to be a professional, not only do you have to look the part, but sound the part when you open your mouth. Being a student is a good time to practice. Not to rip on the poster, but to just make the comment in general.

Just the kind of Doc we all need! More concerned about the diagnosis than the cause. Besides, what I wrote was not wrong, he just felt it should say something else.

 

[Beau Geste]

Just the kind of Doc we all need! More concerned about the diagnosis than the cause. Besides, what I wrote was not wrong, he just felt it should say something else.

Actually, I am a speech-language pathologist and this happens to be my #1 pet peeve regarding the English language (specifically American English), especially when I have referrals from people who are interested in accent reduction. Not only do I have the challenge of making people talk like something they're not, but helping them realize that their accent isn't the problem most of the time (as far as intelligibility goes), their grammar is.

It should be a bonus for people to recognize this and use it to their advantage for applications and such. Unfortunately you missed that last sentence of my post, where I specifically put that I was not ripping on anyone in general, just seconding the notion that grammar is important.

It's very rare for people to actually address this, and I was commending toofache for bringing it up.

Sorry to hurt your feelings. I think I'll make a pretty good doctor, unless my position on correct grammar is the deciding factor.

 

[La Fiera]

who makes more? RN's or MD/DO's?? i'm just curious cause whenever i go to the hospital it seems as if RN's are doing more work. someone please help me with this...i'm losing sleep pondering this as i'm considering becoming a murse or a doctor.