DO vs MD

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mdcool

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hI GUYS....
here is my situation.
I have been planing to have MD since I was young.
I got 7-v, 10-b, 10-p last August.
I thougt I could do it better, so I retook the MCAT.
result.....6.9.9. oh my god....
Honestly, I have no idea what to do.
If I apply DO, do I have chance with these MCAT?

My other ec's are better than good. 🙁
 
mdcool said:
hI GUYS....
here is my situation.
I have been planing to have MD since I was young.
I got 7-v, 10-b, 10-p last August.
I thougt I could do it better, so I retook the MCAT.
result.....6.9.9. oh my god....
Honestly, I have no idea what to do.
If I apply DO, do I have chance with these MCAT?

My other ec's are better than good. 🙁

It is not unheard of to get into med school with a 27. Apply to A LOT of places and there is a good chance that somewhere will take you. If you want an MD then go after that. I havent seen any DOs really in any field other than family medicine. If you think getting into med school is competitive, just think of what it must be like having to compete in an even more selective pool for residency spots. I think having a DO would almost exclude you from that competition.
 
Arnold Chiari said:
I havent seen any DOs really in any field other than family medicine. If you think getting into med school is competitive, just think of what it must be like having to compete in an even more selective pool for residency spots. I think having a DO would almost exclude you from that competition.

I don't even know where to begin with this false statement. I PERSONALLY KNOW general ophthalmologists, pediatric ophthalmologists, retina specialists (retina fellowship is really competitive), orthopedic surgeons, family practice docs, internists, nephrologists, pulmonologists, hem/oncologists, dermatologists, general surgeons, etc etc who are osteopathic physicians.

This topic has been beaten to death on SDN over the years so I don't want to start. The reality is that you will NOT be given priority as a DO applicant in a FEW select residency programs but these programs are VERY FEW. Most competitive residencies want someone smart, hard-working, personable, someone who's showed dedication to the field early on (i.e research) and someone they'll enjoy working with for the next 4+ years. Which one of these qualities do you think you'll lack going to an osteopathic school? None! Medical school is an individual effort. I basically came to med school to become an ophthalmologist. Ophthalmology is a competitive field. Do you honestly think I would go to an osteopathic school blindly without accessing FIRST HAND what my options were as a DO?

Whatever decision you make, research the hell out of it. Figure out its pros and cons. Get OBJECTIVE facts not some fool's opinion who heard from his friend, who heard from his other friend's girlfriend that if you go to osteopathic school you're screwed for life. Good luck in your decision...🙂
 
Arnold Chiari said:
It is not unheard of to get into med school with a 27. Apply to A LOT of places and there is a good chance that somewhere will take you. If you want an MD then go after that. I havent seen any DOs really in any field other than family medicine. If you think getting into med school is competitive, just think of what it must be like having to compete in an even more selective pool for residency spots. I think having a DO would almost exclude you from that competition.


Is there an award for the most ignorant and uninformed post ever??
 
Taus said:
Is there an award for the most ignorant and uninformed post ever??

Why is this post ignorant? It is a fact that DO's usually don't get into competitive specialties. Just because a few DO's do get in does not mean that it isn't a stuggle for DO's.

My best friend ended up going into family practice because he couldn't get into the more competitive specialties. After he finished residency, he couldn't find a job because of the DO behind his name. (He was also chief resident of the DO hospital where he worked).
 
Arnold Chiari said:
It is not unheard of to get into med school with a 27. Apply to A LOT of places and there is a good chance that somewhere will take you. If you want an MD then go after that. I havent seen any DOs really in any field other than family medicine. If you think getting into med school is competitive, just think of what it must be like having to compete in an even more selective pool for residency spots. I think having a DO would almost exclude you from that competition.

For some one is prob in second year or going into third. I am guessing in an MD school. I am pretty surprised that you feel this way. Which area are you in. Northwest, Mid, East US.

I am all the way in Canada.. and I know (have communicated with) of, 3 DO that are in FP, 1 EM, 1 Ortho, 3 Cardiology, 1 Gastro.

If there is something you don't know about... you should do more search on this. Check out the Match result from all the schools. There are threads on this. All these people that do end up going into residency (Not FP)... what happens to them. Do they give out and drop out.
 
top_gunner said:
Why is this post ignorant? It is a fact that DO's usually don't get into competitive specialties. Just because a few DO's do get in does not mean that it isn't a stuggle for DO's.

My best friend ended up going into family practice because he couldn't get into the more competitive specialties. After he finished residency, he couldn't find a job because of the DO behind his name. (He was also chief resident of the DO hospital where he worked).

TOP GUNNER, GIVE ME A F#$^ Break. You just created a new profile today. You really think some of us are that stupid.
 
mdcool said:
hI GUYS....
here is my situation.
I have been planing to have MD since I was young.
I got 7-v, 10-b, 10-p last August.
I thougt I could do it better, so I retook the MCAT.
result.....6.9.9. oh my god....
Honestly, I have no idea what to do.
If I apply DO, do I have chance with these MCAT?

My other ec's are better than good. 🙁


BACK TO OP. I must give you two thumbs 👎 👎 down for your lack of creativity for the title of the thread. If you have been on here long enough you should have known better than using MD Vs. DO.

If your dream have been MD since you are young, THEN, I would say stick to your dreams. That is assuming you have looked into the DO profession and simply did not agree with it. That is not a problem. Better for you to take an extra year and re-write the MCAT and improve GPA (if it is not already great) and re-apply to MD school.

Good luck.
This thread will prob be closed in a little while.
 
docbill said:
For some one is prob in second year or going into third. I am guessing in an MD school. I am pretty surprised that you feel this way. Which area are you in. Northwest, Mid, East US.

I am all the way in Canada.. and I know (have communicated with) of, 3 DO that are in FP, 1 EM, 1 Ortho, 3 Cardiology, 1 Gastro.

If there is something you don't know about... you should do more search on this. Check out the Match result from all the schools. There are threads on this. All these people that do end up going into residency (Not FP)... what happens to them. Do they give out and drop out.

You are an idiot. Just because you know DOs that got in doesn't make it any less of a struggle for DOs. Your statement shows your own subjectiveness and ignorance. IDIOT. Look at all the threads that get started by DOs questioning whether they can get into the more competive specialties.

"DOs as neurosurgeons"

KNOWING SOMEONE IN THE FIELD does NOT MAKE IT EASY.
 
Arnold Chiari said:
It is not unheard of to get into med school with a 27. Apply to A LOT of places and there is a good chance that somewhere will take you. If you want an MD then go after that. I havent seen any DOs really in any field other than family medicine. If you think getting into med school is competitive, just think of what it must be like having to compete in an even more selective pool for residency spots. I think having a DO would almost exclude you from that competition.

You must not be looking with your eyes open!
 
top_gunner said:
Why is this post ignorant? It is a fact that DO's usually don't get into competitive specialties. Just because a few DO's do get in does not mean that it isn't a stuggle for DO's.

My best friend ended up going into family practice because he couldn't get into the more competitive specialties. After he finished residency, he couldn't find a job because of the DO behind his name. (He was also chief resident of the DO hospital where he worked).

You are full of crap!
 
I usually don't get involved in these kind of posts...but....what the hell....


1. Not even considering those DO's who place into MD residencies, DO's have their own specialty boards in almost ALL SPECIALTIES THAT ARE ONLY FILLED BY DO'S.

2. Check out the Official Residency Match Lists from DO schools.

3. Couldn't find a job....give me a break...
 
Woah, I totally didn't expect this kind of response. I guess I don't come into the pre-osteo forum enough to realize this might be a sensitive issue.

Any way, I'm at a MD school and sometimes read people's ID tags, like in the elevator, in the caffeteria, etc. I must say that I have not seen a single DO in my years here. Everyone is an MD.

I was advising the OP that an MD will give more flexibility than a DO in terms of matching in one's residency of choice, and I stand by that statement.

No doubt there are DOs in every field, but that does not change the fact that the average DO student has a harder time getting a non primary care residency than the average MD student.
 
top_gunner said:
You are an idiot. Just because you know DOs that got in doesn't make it any less of a struggle for DOs. Your statement shows your own subjectiveness and ignorance. IDIOT. Look at all the threads that get started by DOs questioning whether they can get into the more competive specialties.

"DOs as neurosurgeons"

KNOWING SOMEONE IN THE FIELD does NOT MAKE IT EASY.

Yeah... that is it... get angry.

I always enjoy funny big talk from a guy who just got on SDN today.

IDIOT??? is that the best you can come up with???

I have been called much worst. Lets try ASS#$%, Prik, Smart Alex, F#$head, M.F#W%er etc

Why don't you reveal yourself? What is your normal SDN Nickname?
 
Arnold Chiari said:
Everyone is an MD...

...average DO student has a harder time getting a non primary care residency than the average MD student.

That is true. 93-95% of Physicians are MDs. Its like spotting that one rare person. 5 out of 100 are DOs. So that is stats.

True for second statement as well. It is hard to get into a specialty. Especially if you are a minority in the field. It is not impossible. If you score high enough on USMLEs and you get great letters, and you pick residency spots where previous DOs have been. Yale for example... then you should have a good shot at it.
 
Arnold Chiari said:
Woah, I totally didn't expect this kind of response. I guess I don't come into the pre-osteo forum enough to realize this might be a sensitive issue.

Any way, I'm at a MD school and sometimes read people's ID tags, like in the elevator, in the caffeteria, etc. I must say that I have not seen a single DO in my years here. Everyone is an MD.

I was advising the OP that an MD will give more flexibility than a DO in terms of matching in one's residency of choice, and I stand by that statement.

No doubt there are DOs in every field, but that does not change the fact that the average DO student has a harder time getting a non primary care residency than the average MD student.



With something as serious as my career and the training I will undertake for the next 4 years....how can I not take offense...

Also, as DOcBill has pointed out, thats strictly a number/stats thing as litterally only around 5% of Docs are DO's and it also depends on your region. If there isn't a DO school in your state or any adjacent ones you are not likely to find many in your area.

Your third point is not entirely off-base. While DO's will appear in every specialty, especially through DO-only residencies, they do have a propensity for primary care. That can stem from several things, however DO training is generally geared towards primary care and the statistics show that nearly 2/3 practice in it. A key point to remember is that not everyone views primary care as a negative thing......it is my career goal to be a sports medicine physician and that falls under primary care. If you're goal is to absolutely place into a very competative surgical specialty, then I do agree that an MD may have an advantage.
 
Why do people presume to know so much based one their experience with 1 person or 1 hospital? Especially when those experiences are so clearly incompatible with nationwide statistical/factual data.
 
From an MD student's perspective, I can tell you this:

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

I'm only an MS2, but from my observation, the 'average' DO is an 'all around' better doctor than the 'average' MD. Thats a sweeping and unfair generalization though; you'll be the doctor you make yourself.

Maybe DOs just try harder to overcome the stigma and end up better. OMM is also awsome stuff, although most DOs don't ever really do it unless it's their specialty or they are in PM&R.

As for schools, I honestly think the biggest difference is that allopathic education may be cheaper and you might have less debt down the road.
MD schools have alot more cash; therefore they have more scholarships. Most state schools are also MD schools = cheaper tuition.

Strangely, MD's on average make a little more than DOs (I think thats a statistical artifact due to more DOs going into primary care and more MDs stroking themselves into g^d-complex specialties.) So maybe these self-absorbed specialists pay off their loans faster. I'm sure there will be plenty of DOs making more in competative specialties than I make as a family doctor, though. Again, you'll be the doctor you make yourself.

So don't stress it. I'd say apply based on where you want to go and how happy you'll be as a student. Some schools are supportive environments (Touro, Einstein, most small state schools) & some are ultra competative & stressfull (Hopkins, NYCOM, Jefferson). The distinction isn't a DO/MD one.

Get in where you can get in. Work hard when you get there. Focus on becoming a great physician. The letters after your name won't matter in 10 years when there are nearly as many DOs as MDs in this country. What will matter is if we can overcome the divisions in our profession and for some class solidarity because the true danger is proletarianization at the hands of Medicare cuts, insurance industrialization, litigation culture, ect.
 
I never liked DO vs MD arguments. I think they're a big waste of time. For every "I know a DO who couldnt get into ______speciality" I can probably think of a DO that I know that DID get in.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Please, please, please don't live in your own little world and think that if you haven't seen it, it doesnt happen or doesn't exist. Try to see the big picture in medicine, and in life in general. With the growing number of DO's, it is highly likely that you'll have to work with one either in residency, in the hospital, or in practice. If you haven't learned to accept DO's yet, you will one day in your medical career. Trust me.
 
Taus said:
I usually don't get involved in these kind of posts...but....what the hell....


1. Not even considering those DO's who place into MD residencies, DO's have their own specialty boards in ALL SPECIALTIES THAT ARE ONLY FILLED BY DO'S.

2. Check out the Official Residency Match Lists from DO schools.

3. Couldn't find a job....give me a break...
I haven't seen an Osteopathic Radiation Oncology residency.
 
I was just trying to be a professional contrarian. It is true that there is MOST any osteopathic residency plus access to allopathic ones as well. It almost seems like DO's have it best.
 
I think premeds should do some real research before making assumptions about the value of primary care physicians. Disgruntled rants on SDN, comparison of annual salaries of doctors, and subjective personal experience do not count as research. The same thing goes for DOs and the residency combined-match/allo specialty spot issue.
 
Arnold Chiari said:
It is not unheard of to get into med school with a 27. Apply to A LOT of places and there is a good chance that somewhere will take you. If you want an MD then go after that. (snip)

It does appear that it is not unheard of for people to even get into American allopathic schools with a 27 combined MCAT score. I found these links on mdapplicants of some who got into Drexel with 27 or lower combined MCAT scores:

21:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3172

24:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3499

25:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1876

27:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1102
 
Supadupafly said:
From an MD student's perspective, I can tell you this:

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

I'm only an MS2, but from my observation, the 'average' DO is an 'all around' better doctor than the 'average' MD. Thats a sweeping and unfair generalization though; you'll be the doctor you make yourself.

Maybe DOs just try harder to overcome the stigma and end up better. OMM is also awsome stuff, although most DOs don't ever really do it unless it's their specialty or they are in PM&R.

As for schools, I honestly think the biggest difference is that allopathic education may be cheaper and you might have less debt down the road.
MD schools have alot more cash; therefore they have more scholarships. Most state schools are also MD schools = cheaper tuition.

Strangely, MD's on average make a little more than DOs (I think thats a statistical artifact due to more DOs going into primary care and more MDs stroking themselves into g^d-complex specialties.) So maybe these self-absorbed specialists pay off their loans faster. I'm sure there will be plenty of DOs making more in competative specialties than I make as a family doctor, though. Again, you'll be the doctor you make yourself.

So don't stress it. I'd say apply based on where you want to go and how happy you'll be as a student. Some schools are supportive environments (Touro, Einstein, most small state schools) & some are ultra competative & stressfull (Hopkins, NYCOM, Jefferson). The distinction isn't a DO/MD one.

Get in where you can get in. Work hard when you get there. Focus on becoming a great physician. The letters after your name won't matter in 10 years when there are nearly as many DOs as MDs in this country. What will matter is if we can overcome the divisions in our profession and for some class solidarity because the true danger is proletarianization at the hands of Medicare cuts, insurance industrialization, litigation culture, ect.

Good post.

MD vs. DO is stupid. Let the debate end now. Do a search on SDN. I am sure you will find plenty of posts with this exact same title.
 
markt said:
It does appear that it is not unheard of for people to even get into American allopathic schools with a 27 combined MCAT score. I found these links on mdapplicants of some who got into Drexel with 27 or lower combined MCAT scores:

21:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3172

24:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3499

25:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1876

27:
http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1102

Anyone can post anything on this site. A DO can "fake" a to post to prove that accepted MD applicants have gotten in with these scores. These "profiles" that you point to are meaningless.

With that being said, the general trend is:

Accepted MD applicants with low scores = URM
Accepted DO applicant with high score (3.2 24MCAT) = Affirmative action for rednecks

Why would anyone build a school in a rural area where there aren't people to treat? Why name a school Pikesville and Kirksville or TOURO? Are they really villages? Are DOs doctors or medicine men? If there aren't enough patients to treat, do you treat farm animals like bulls (toros)?
 
mdcool said:
hI GUYS....
here is my situation.
I have been planing to have MD since I was young.
I got 7-v, 10-b, 10-p last August.
I thougt I could do it better, so I retook the MCAT.
result.....6.9.9. oh my god....
Honestly, I have no idea what to do.
If I apply DO, do I have chance with these MCAT?

My other ec's are better than good. 🙁

if you have lots of community service....UVM might be in your range....it is a great school! 🙂
 
top_gunner said:
Anyone can post anything on this site. A DO can "fake" a to post to prove that accepted MD applicants have gotten in with these scores. These "profiles" that you point to are meaningless.

With that being said, the general trend is:

Accepted MD applicants with low scores = URM
Accepted DO applicant with high score (3.2 24MCAT) = Affirmative action for rednecks

Why would anyone build a school in a rural area where there aren't people to treat? Why name a school Pikesville and Kirksville or TOURO? Are they really villages? Are DOs doctors or medicine men? If there aren't enough patients to treat, do you treat farm animals like bulls (toros)?

Troll
I can't believe you just wrote that. Probably the most ignorant statement ever and was only meant to flame. This thread should be closed.

Please read
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=133066
 
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