DO vs. PA: Is DO worth it?

[PAfuture]

What's your goal for yourself? Where do you see yourself? What do you expect to accomplish? How do you feel about having the bucks stops with you? Which role do you see yourself on the team? Do you want to make big decisions or do you want to make them to an extent but like the back-up when needed?

Putting all the, "Do pushes for PCP specialties etc" aside and just think about what YOU want. What kind of career do you pray for? Yes, certain field are harder to obtain as a DO but that doesn't mean you're out of the running automatically cause you're a DO.

You're jumping into worry about specialties etc when you're not sure what position on the team you want to play on. Until you know to the best of your ability what position you want to be in, then it makes no sense to decide between MD / DO or PA etc. My best friend will be 45 YO finishing general surgery.

This was amazing, thank you for sharing these thoughts!

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Keep it professional. Personal attacks and vulgar comments are not acceptable.

And for the record, pointing out the differences in knowledge between midlevels and physicians is not insulting or inappropriate. Putting down an entire profession is not okay though.

 

[ES671]

I think that fact you think DO route is meant for primary care is a very skewed view. People that want to do surgery, derm, ortho, etc are able to do just that as a DO. Obviously, it depends on board scores and grades but just because you are doing DO does not mean you are limited to family medicine. If you want to be practicing by yourself in whatever specialty you chose to do, DO is the way to go. If you do not care about autonomy and a pay cap then go with PA.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not sure about listening to orders since many of the PAs I know work pretty much independently but person above me is correct in saying that youll always be under someone. Not necessarily a bad thing but you have more independence as a DO.

99.5% of the time you'll have a boss as a PA, and you will always be lacking some core competencies that physicians possess, which can lead to some danger due to not knowing what you don't know. However, it isn't a bad career if you want to clock in, clock out, and have a life while making 6 figures, though it is looking like the field will be increasingly saturated over the next decade. If you want to be the boss, make three times as much, and work twice as hard (plus five times as hard to get there), physician is the way to go.

 

[Mad Jack]

Keep it professional. Personal attacks and vulgar comments are not acceptable.

And for the record, pointing out the differences in knowledge between midlevels and physicians is not insulting or inappropriate. Putting down an entire profession is not okay though.

Depends on the profession. I'll gladly hate on naturopaths

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Depends on the profession. I'll gladly hate on naturopaths

While I don’t disagree that naturopaths are snake oil salesmen, there is no need to attack an individual user—especially if it’s off topic. And this thread isn’t about naturopaths.

 

[mtn&sea]

Chiming in... I want to go into primary care and seriously looked at PA, NP (ARNP, DNP programs included) and DO/MD. I looked the projected debt for each schooling option, compared it to the salary (i.e. how long it would take me to pay it off), with specific attention to my desire to work part time when I have a family, with a financial advisor (through my bank). Financially, MD/DO route actually ended up making more sense for my age (I'll matriculate at 26).

That was actually what cinched my decision. Personally, I am fiercely independent and want to be calling the shots, but I also desperately want to not be in debt (my family almost lost our home to the bank in '08 recession). So I knew, that my financial independence plus my desire to work part-time for approx 10 years was actually more critical than the work environment.

SO pumped to be going to an MD program next year, but am also really relieved that I looked into the financial reality of each scenario.

 

[egypt45]

My mom is a physician, she has gone through two PAs in her practice, she continually states that the PAs knew nothing but acted like they knew more than her, the physician, who has been practicing for 25+ years. Not saying there arent good PAs, but the amount of clinical/medical training is not comparable to 4 years of medical school, 3 board exams, and multiple years of residency. PA programs are typically 2 years and that includes the medical knowledge you are learning + clinicals. Med school =2 years of learning + 2 years of hands on clinical experience + 3 or more years of residency.

 

[Etopn23]

I am a PA. I am applying to medical school this cycle. PAs have their role in the healthcare team and very few overstep their bounds. Our scope of practice in Texas is at the discretion of the supervising physician with some exceptions (laws regarding surgery etc). The vast majority of the people in this thread have no idea what they are talking about.

The PA profession was initially intended for those who had prior medical experience and wanted to transition into becoming a provider. These days, most PAs gain their clinical experience on the job. A good PA in primary care has their own schedule and can function as an independent provider in most cases. A good PA knows when to consult and has chart review scheduled with their supervising physician monthly as well as direct access to their supervising at all times (phone or on site). It's a sign of insecurity to say they "know nothing".

Do not become a PA because you failed at becoming a DO. You will regret that decision for the rest of your life - it's also fairly difficult to matriculate into a PA program in itself and you will be taking a position from someone that actually wants to be a PA. You are similar in age to me OP and I also have a family. If you don't become a DO this cycle improve your resume and try again.

You aren't too old to do what you want to do. I know a NP who saved some money then quit his job in the ED to go back to school and he just matriculated into an MD program.

 

[keolu hills]

Unfortunately, PAs are slowly gaining independence practice rights. They have independence practice rights in Michigan. So, it's probably only a matter of time.

 

[keolu hills]

Be very careful using PA as a “back up“. Because if you do go the PA route, because you did not get into medical school and this is not exactly what you wanted to do, you will always have regret and that may impact your career for years to come. It is very doable to have children in medical school, hard but doable.

PA school has become very competitive. There are some PA schools that don't focus that much on prior healthcare experience. These might be the schools that are even harder to get into.

 

[Darth Doc]

You probably shouldn't talk **** about your future colleagues. PAs are healthcare professionals, not "students for life."



You think that a PA with 10+ years of experience working as a healthcare provider, working directly with patients and physicians, hasn't gained any clinical knowledge that a fourth-yr med student doesn't possess? You're not hurting anybody's ego. You're insulting people's intelligence with your inflammatory garbage posts.

I am a PA who went back to medical school and am now a MD.

All healthcare professionals should be "students for life".

A PA with 10+ years does have some practical knowledge and pattern recognition of diseases that are greater than a 4th year medical student. However, that 4th year medical student has a far greater knowledge of basic metabolic processes, diseases, treatments, and a greater ability to figure out rarer problems than any PA. It's a far different knowledge base than what PAs get. PAs are limited to their education and the disease processes they learn on the job. Medical students get a broader based deeper base knowledge. The medical student will surpass the PA during residency - in just a few years after that 4th year - and will have a greater ability to diagnose and treat all diseases within their specialty. The PA may still have a few tidbits here and there that the MD will pick up over the years, but the overall knowledge and skill is far greater. Knowing pathophysiology makes a big difference.

I've done both. So glad I went back - for myself and my patients. I'm a far better physician now than I ever would have been as a PA.

 

[JS_90]

PA programs are becoming more and more popular nowadays.

PA is a much less risky career than DO in a relative short-term perspective: decent salary, shorter training time and residency is not needed, much lower debt, relatively easier to get in (in contrast, DO applicants might need to spend time in taking extra courses to raise GPA or in boosting ECs...), etc. The number of DO graduates is significantly increasing since a bunch of new DO schools have been opening, but the residency openings are not increasing as fast.

However, it is hard to predict what will happen in future. It's pretty easy for a school to start a PA program (even online PA programs are coming...). Will it be doomed to saturate markets in future, just like JD and a more recent story of PharmD?

 

[keolu hills]

Many PA applicants have to spend time reinventing themselves (taking courses/redoing them, getting work experience, although not for all schools) like med school applicants. PA schools are now as competitive as DO schools are.

 

[GhostOfCourteousAnimals]

So here's what I'm wondering...

It's no secret that DO school traditionally send a large number of applicants to primary care. It's also no secret that PA programs are geared toward filling the rather gaping primary care needs in the US. If that's the case, what are the advantages of going to DO school rather than PA school? I'd be especially interested in hearing from current DO applicants, DO students, and faculty at DO schools (what's up, @Goro ). I realize that a DO can apply to any medical residency he or she chooses, but it seems that most still end up in IM and FM, and I personally am aiming for a surgical specialty or at least something outside the bounds of primary care.

As a PA you will live your life practicing under someone. If your ego can take that your entire life I would say nothing wrong with going with PA Sir.

 

[MusicDOc124]

There is some degree of self-selection for some of what you mention. Many also head into IM to go into fellowships to be things like cardiologists, gastroenterologists, oncologists, etc. Same goes for a good portion of who choose pediatrics.