DO vs SGU (which should I pick?)

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DO vs SGU

  • DO

    Votes: 75 78.1%

  • SGU

    Votes: 21 21.9%
  • Total voters
    96
H

Handsome88

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Hello everyone,

I am from Canada, and applying to medical schools this summer with a GPA of 3.55 (MCAT in a month!), below average EC's.
I need help in deciding whether to apply to DO schools or to SGU (Caribbean).
I would like to stay in a less foreign country (+ve for DO), but there is a great chance that I will be working in the Middle East if not here in Canada, and DO's are not accepted in the Middle East (-ve for DO).
I am not sure if SGU is accepted world wide, or if it even matters where you have studied once you have started working...

P.S. I might end up applying to both, but if I got accepted to both (LOL), which should I pick?

ANY HELP?!
 
DO. Hands down. No question.

edit: i didnt actually read your post before i posted (just the title) so you may have more to think about than i originally thought. If you really are serious about working in the middle east, thats something to look in to and i dont really konw much about the topic to advise any further.
 
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NOT ANOTHER ONE!!! I HATE THESE THREADS

seriously, go where you want to go. i just don't want to read another md vs. do, which initials are better thread.

if u want to practice medicine, go to the school that you think will prepare you best. that is all.
 
life is good said:
NOT ANOTHER ONE!!! I HATE THESE THREADS

seriously, go where you want to go. i just don't want to read another md vs. do, which initials are better thread.

if u want to practice medicine, go to the school that you think will prepare you best. that is all.
Click to expand...

Please read my whole post. My problem is that I want to work abroad... would DO schools narrow down my options?
 
Handsome88 said:
Even considering the -ve point for DO schools in my case? Since I will be stuck here in the US/most of Canada.
Click to expand...

Yea sorry i didnt actually finish your whole first post. See my edited post above. For most cases I would say DO fo' sho'. But if you konw you want to work in a country where the DO license isn't reecognzied then thats a tough deciison knowing that you may totally change your mind in the future and not want to go to middle east anymore.
 
It doesn't seem like too difficult of a question...if you are almost for sure going to work in a country that you know won't accept the DO degree then you would need to go to sgu. If you plan on staying in the states or canada then DO all the way. At least apply to both so you don't limit your options right off the bat. Good luck!
 
Handsome88 said:
Hello everyone,

I am from Canada, and applying to medical schools this summer with a GPA of 3.55 (MCAT in a month!), below average EC's.
Click to expand...


Why not any US MD schools? I know you say your EC's are sub-par but your GPA is solid, and if you rock your MCAT...i don't see why you couldn't score an interview or 2 at an MD school in the states. That would solve your overseas degree dilemma maybe? Are there any physicians you could shadow and hit up for a LOR in the next few months? That would help out the EC issue some...it's def still very early in the game!
 
Handsome88 said:
Hello everyone,

I am from Canada, and applying to medical schools this summer with a GPA of 3.55 (MCAT in a month!), below average EC's.
I need help in deciding whether to apply to DO schools or to SGU (Caribbean).
I would like to stay in a less foreign country (+ve for DO), but there is a great chance that I will be working in the Middle East if not here in Canada, and DO's are not accepted in the Middle East (-ve for DO).
I am not sure if SGU is accepted world wide, or if it even matters where you have studied once you have started working...

P.S. I might end up applying to both, but if I got accepted to both (LOL), which should I pick?

ANY HELP?!
Click to expand...

I've investigated this issue myself because there's a big possibility that I will go back to my native country.

I can tell you that the answer to your question depends on which country in middle east you are looking at. If you are planning to practice in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you will have no problem with either degree; therefore, I recommend going the DO rout. However, if you are planning to practice in other countries that don't mirror the western system like Syria and Egypt, then you need an MD degree.

BTW, the information I have is almost a year old. Every year more and more countries are recognizing that DO is an equivelant degree to MD. Therefore, you need to dig and search more into this topic.
 
missDO said:
Why not any US MD schools? I know you say your EC's are sub-par but your GPA is solid, and if you rock your MCAT...i don't see why you couldn't score an interview or 2 at an MD school in the states. That would solve your overseas degree dilemma maybe? Are there any physicians you could shadow and hit up for a LOR in the next few months? That would help out the EC issue some...it's def still very early in the game!
Click to expand...

Wow your words are encouraging. I didn't think my GPA would allow me to get into any MD schools in the US. I actually did volunteer at a family doctor clinic and will try and get a LOR from him, didn't really shadow him though...I did the front desk work. Thanks!
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
I've investigated this issue myself because there's a big possibility that I will go back to my native country.

I can tell you that the answer to your question depends on which country in middle east you are looking at. If you are planning to practice in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you will have no problem with either degree; therefore, I recommend going the DO rout. However, if you are planning to practice in other countries that don't mirror the western system like Syria and Egypt, then you need an MD degree.

BTW, the information I have is almost a year old. Every year more and more countries are recognizing that DO is an equivelant degree to MD. Therefore, you need to dig and search more into this topic.
Click to expand...

I'm actually thinking about going back to UAE. Some family friends there have asked about DO's at hospitals and they said they don't really have them. I should ask more about that.
 
Handsome88 said:
Wow your words are encouraging. I didn't think my GPA would allow me to get into any MD schools in the US. I actually did volunteer at a family doctor clinic and will try and get a LOR from him, didn't really shadow him though...I did the front desk work. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The fact that you volunteered in a healthcare setting is great tho...esp if you can sincerely touch on it in your personal statement. I graduated this May with a 3.1 and 23P MCAT...(biomedical engineer major ROCKED me in undergrad...annnd i am a terrible standardized test taker lol). I am going DO route (only acceptance!) however, maybe it is my subconscious rationale making myself feel better, but the more i researched osteopathy, the more i like all of the pertaining idealities...more correlation to my engineering background. anyhoo...just do your hw. research school stats...and def get on the LOR/maybe do some more volunteering/shadowing at your clinic. Good luck! and ps...i know several students who have gotten acceptances with gpa's far below yours...it can happen! 🙂
 
missDO said:
The fact that you volunteered in a healthcare setting is great tho...esp if you can sincerely touch on it in your personal statement. I graduated this May with a 3.1 and 23P MCAT...(biomedical engineer major ROCKED me in undergrad...annnd i am a terrible standardized test taker lol). I am going DO route (only acceptance!) however, maybe it is my subconscious rationale making myself feel better, but the more i researched osteopathy, the more i like all of the pertaining idealities...more correlation to my engineering background. anyhoo...just do your hw. research school stats...and def get on the LOR/maybe do some more volunteering/shadowing at your clinic. Good luck! and ps...i know several students who have gotten acceptances with gpa's far below yours...it can happen! 🙂
Click to expand...

Biomedical engineer...this is tough stuff (took one related course last year and it was the hardest course i took that year). Good luck with your DO!
 
Handsome88 said:
Biomedical engineer...this is tough stuff (took one related course last year and it was the hardest course i took that year). Good luck with your DO!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Good luck with your app process 🙂

note: if you feel like you wanna pull your hair out at any point during the app cycle...this is totally normal. haha, take care!
 
Check the international practice rights on SGU vs DO. Remember that just because SGU grants an MD degree, does NOT mean you have universal practice rights all over. I'm pretty sure DO is cleared in 44 countries, SGU MD is cleared in 39 countries.

If you were staying in the states DO >>>>>>>>> SGU, for your situation, figure out what will allow you to practice where you want to, apply there.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Check the international practice rights on SGU vs DO. Remember that just because SGU grants an MD degree, does NOT mean you have universal practice rights all over. I'm pretty sure DO is cleared in 44 countries, SGU MD is cleared in 39 countries.

If you were staying in the states DO >>>>>>>>> SGU, for your situation, figure out what will allow you to practice where you want to, apply there.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that answered my question - yup, DO!
 
JaggerPlate said:
Check the international practice rights on SGU vs DO. Remember that just because SGU grants an MD degree, does NOT mean you have universal practice rights all over. I'm pretty sure DO is cleared in 44 countries, SGU MD is cleared in 39 countries.

If you were staying in the states DO >>>>>>>>> SGU, for your situation, figure out what will allow you to practice where you want to, apply there.
Click to expand...

Where did you get these numbers from? Is there a recent source that I can use to know exactly which countries accept SGU/DO schools?
All I got was a wikipedia website (also possibly outdated).
 
The only monkey wrench in your decision here is your desire to go practice in the middle east. If you didn't want that, it'd be clear to go D.O. Because of that, I think you will need to do some personal investigating. I found the requirements for practice in the UAE :
www.cpq.dhcc.ae/PDF%20Bank/Physicians/Guidelines/Physician%20Licensing%20Guidelines%20v%201.420080817.pdf

It looks to me like you'd be okay for UAE going to either SGU or D.O. school. The only twists I see are:
1) If you go to SGU, you absolutely cannot do any of your clinical rotations outside of a "DHCC" approved country. But I think all SGU rotations are in the US anyhow.

2) If you go to D.O. school, for now it looks like you will have to take the USMLE steps in addition to the COMLEX, b/c the COMLEX isn't a board exam they recognize.

I would contact the AOA, however, b/c the number of countries recognizing D.O.'s is increasing all the time. Just b/c a country isn't listed, doesn't mean that it won't be by the time you graduate...it would behoove you to find out if countries where you want to practice are pending if they aren't approved.

Getting the D.O. will, hands down, afford you better residency opportunities within the U.S., and a better "back-up" plan in case you change your mind about going to the middle east or find that you want to stay in north america. I would also try your hand at some U.S. M.D. programs. It doesn't look to me like you're out of range for that...and frankly that just makes everything easier w/ regards to this.

Lastly...when investigating practicing rights of D.O.'s, please realize that "osteopaths" and "osteopathic physicians" are not used interchangeably when discussing international practice. There are countries like New Zealand where osteopaths, like chiropractors, do not receive the education of a physician. There are also countries like Germany where an "osteopathic physician" is an M.D. who has taken extra courses to become a "D.O.M.," so if you are reading articles online about osteopathy in a country where you want to practice, make sure it's specifically reagrding D.O. degree-holders.
 
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If you're not interested in OMT, I would advise you not to go to a DO school. I think an MD from SGU will be recognized anywhere in the world, but you will not be able to practice in select countries w/ DO - so definately look into it. By the way, I know people in MD programs w. GPA's lower than yours, so don't sell yourself short of what you really want. Take a shot. last point, I'm pretty sure Canadian med schools are way cheaper than US. Stay there and save your cash. Good luck.
 
aberkovi said:
If you're not interested in OMT, I would advise you not to go to a DO school. I think an MD from SGU will be recognized anywhere in the world, but you will not be able to practice in select countries w/ DO - so definately look into it. By the way, I know people in MD programs w. GPA's lower than yours, so don't sell yourself short of what you really want. Take a shot. last point, I'm pretty sure Canadian med schools are way cheaper than US. Stay there and save your cash. Good luck.
Click to expand...

38 =/= all. I find it funny though that people automatically assume an MD will allow them to practice anywhere. There are rarely short cuts in life, and I personally know many people who ended up uninterested in OMM and attended a DO school. Went through it when they had to, no plans to use it, etc.
 
It is really up to you, some people want the MD behind their name. If you plan to work in the US in general MDs and DOs have the same practice rights. DOs also have their own residencies, which are mostly accepted within the US and a few other foreign countries. I believe Manitoba accepts DOs to practice as full physicians if they completed an Osteopathic residency. The one thing about a Caribbean school will be the cost and the living conditions. SGU is an extremely expensive school, if I am not mistaken their yearly tuition is over 50k US, that is more than the COA of several DO schools.

FYI Canadian medical schools are nearly impossible to get into. Schools like U of Toronto and McGill are more selective than Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Many Canadian schools won't even consider someone with only a Bachelor's degree. Many prefer students who have Master's or other post graduate degrees.

In general it is not easy for doctors regardless of their degree to cross borders. Registered Nurses on the other hand can readily work in many countries with few barriers.
 
Last edited:
aberkovi said:
If you're not interested in OMT, I would advise you not to go to a DO school. I think an MD from SGU will be recognized anywhere in the world, but you will not be able to practice in select countries w/ DO - so definately look into it. By the way, I know people in MD programs w. GPA's lower than yours, so don't sell yourself short of what you really want. Take a shot. last point, I'm pretty sure Canadian med schools are way cheaper than US. Stay there and save your cash. Good luck.
Click to expand...

lol, someone hasn't been reading the thread...

did he mention not being interested in OMT? Its not that big of a 'price' to pay to get your degree anyways. Just another subject thrown into the curriculum. I don't think this is his main concern anyways 😕

OP: I would apply smart this firts app cycle, meaning don't apply to any schools you wouldn't want to be at, and only ones that wouldnt limit what you want to do in the future. If you don't get in the first time around (which seems unlikely at DO or SGU) either really bolster you app or start adding some backups. It sounds like you are starting to do the research which is the first step! Good luck 👍
 
Handsome88 said:
Hello everyone,

I am from Canada, and applying to medical schools this summer with a GPA of 3.55 (MCAT in a month!), below average EC's.
I need help in deciding whether to apply to DO schools or to SGU (Caribbean).
I would like to stay in a less foreign country (+ve for DO), but there is a great chance that I will be working in the Middle East if not here in Canada, and DO's are not accepted in the Middle East (-ve for DO).
I am not sure if SGU is accepted world wide, or if it even matters where you have studied once you have started working...

P.S. I might end up applying to both, but if I got accepted to both (LOL), which should I pick?

ANY HELP?!
Click to expand...

If you want to practice in the Middle East you might want to look at Australian schools. A lot of Australian doctors work in the UAE and Gulf region. Outside of American doctors, they have high regard for British and Australian doctors. The UK might be another option as well. Caribbean graduates have a lot of issues with getting licensed in a foreign country. Many European countries will not license you, then again most of Europe has an oversupply of doctors.
 
I don't know a lot about international medicine--forgive me if this is a silly question--but would you possibly be able to practice in the middle east as a D.O. if you were with some kind of humanitarian organization? That's just my first thought. Good luck with whatever you end up doing. 🙂 You can always apply to both places and see what happens.
 
Exalya said:
I don't know a lot about international medicine--forgive me if this is a silly question--but would you possibly be able to practice in the middle east as a D.O. if you were with some kind of humanitarian organization? That's just my first thought. Good luck with whatever you end up doing. 🙂 You can always apply to both places and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
Craigslist said:
Sgu
Click to expand...

I mostly agree, but it depends what DO school we are talking about. SGU is more competitive than many DO schools, but not all. However if you want to practice in the middle east, you will have to take the USMLE boards anyway, so keep that in mind. If you were to stay in the united states, both a stateside DO or MD from SGU will get the job done. All things being equal, I'd go to the more academically competitive school. Another option may be a European MD program. I would recommend an Israeli school, but am sure there are some political issues that would arise depending on which middle eastern country you want to work in.

Finally, it sounds like you have a solid GPA and are waiting on the MCAT. Doing well on the MCAT and going to a US MD program would solve this problem all together.
 
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All things being equal, I'd go to the more academically competitive school.
Click to expand...

It's a nice thought, but I haven't encountered too many situations where things are completely equal except for a single point. Also, I'd recommend not getting locked into the mode of reflexively choosing the more competitive school. One important factor, perhaps unrelated to competitiveness, is the quality and location of rotations, as well as the setup of your 3rd and 4th years. Your rotations are probably more important than your pre-clinical years. Something to think about. Furthermore, if you enjoy the comforts of the US, you may want to think twice about going to school on an island in the Caribbean. Then there is the issue of cost.
 
Handsome88 said:
Please read my whole post. My problem is that I want to work abroad... would DO schools narrow down my options?
Click to expand...

Today yes... in 9-10 years when you're ready to work - who knows. Why don't you stop worrying about RIGHT NOW and be a DO pioneer or something and open the doors for DO's in more places... don't be selfish. I'd go DO over SGU without a second thought.
 
I'd go with SGU, being a DO does limit some of your options in other countries abroad. If you were staying in Canada or going to the U.S. I would say D.O. since you would have less issues with a D.O. in those countries
 
endocardium said:
It's a nice thought, but I haven't encountered too many situations where things are completely equal except for a single point. Also, I'd recommend not getting locked into the mode of reflexively choosing the more competitive school. One important factor, perhaps unrelated to competitiveness, is the quality and location of rotations, as well as the setup of your 3rd and 4th years. Your rotations are probably more important than your pre-clinical years. Something to think about. Furthermore, if you enjoy the comforts of the US, you may want to think twice about going to school on an island in the Caribbean. Then there is the issue of cost.
Click to expand...

Ceteris paribus, I would choose DO over Caribbean MD hands down.
 
Decicco said:
Finally, it sounds like you have a solid GPA and are waiting on the MCAT. Doing well on the MCAT and going to a US MD program would solve this problem all together.
Click to expand...

Ideal situation 👍

:xf: for that MCAT. Good Luck 🙂
 
3.55 GPA is not really a "solid-GPA" for MD schools, considering he gets an average MCAT.
 
If you haven't thought of it and others haven't suggested it yet I would consider applying to the new American schools in the Middle East...

I know Harvard is in Dubai and I'm pretty sure Cornell is somewhere ...
and there are others...also I believe RCSI has a branch in Bahrain.

There are also 3 schools to which you can apply in Israel and you might
also consider Australian, British, Irish, and New Zealand schools ....

:luck:
 
premedmind said:
3.55 GPA is not really a "solid-GPA" for MD schools, considering he gets an average MCAT.
Click to expand...

PLENTY of people have gotten in with this gpa. its not a reason to count yourself out, you never know until you give it a shot. Most schools aren't only looking for 3.9, 39 brainiacs. They like to have a diverse class. If your MCAT is 30+, it would be silly not to give it a shot OP.

OP: In addition to the schools stiz mentioned, I know there is a solid one in Israel for US/Canadian citizens that my good friend from undergrad is attending. Seems like that might open the door for practice in the middle east? Don't know the name or much about it...anyone heard of this place 😕

Edit: hehe, sitz already mentioned Israel. missed that 😀
 
brucecanbeatyou said:
I love that the link to the SGU site now says "OOPS, you seem to be lost," apparently they don't want people to know that an MD from SGU is NOT an MD anywhere in the world. Pretty Orwellian.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that insidious - probably some link cleanup:

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/recognition-standards.html

Still 38. Not universal. There is *no* universal medical degree. I wish premeds would shut their pie holes about this supposed advantage to the MD. The Carib MD, no less.
 
DoktorB said:
PLENTY of people have gotten in with this gpa. its not a reason to count yourself out, you never know until you give it a shot. Most schools aren't only looking for 3.9, 39 brainiacs. They like to have a diverse class. If your MCAT is 30+, it would be silly not to give it a shot OP.

OP: In addition to the schools stiz mentioned, I know there is a solid one in Israel for US/Canadian citizens that my good friend from undergrad is attending. Seems like that might open the door for practice in the middle east? Don't know the name or much about it...anyone heard of this place 😕

Edit: hehe, sitz already mentioned Israel. missed that 😀
Click to expand...

Yea I am for sure going to apply to MD schools in Canada and US, but since my GPA is below average I am considering DO and SGU schools as a backup.
I looked up some of the schools stiz mentioned... The building for Harvard in Dubai is not even complete yet. And in regards to Israeli Med schools...well I don't think I will be even accepted to enter Israel in the first place (being originally Palestinian).
Do you know which top 3-5 US schools that I should DEFINITELY apply to with my GPA and considering I'm from Canada?

Thank you
 
Awwww . . . . my grandma used to say "piehole". Thanks for the memory!

:hijacked:

Now back to regular programming
 
Handsome88 said:
And in regards to Israeli Med schools...well I don't think I will be even accepted to enter Israel in the first place (being originally Palestinian).
Click to expand...

I don't think this would exclude you at all! In fact, you could shape it into a compelling argument for how you can uniquely contribute to the school. If you are unsure about this, I would call and check.
 
I'd pick the cheaper school. I know SGU isn't cheap. I personally would rather not be a doctor than go out of the country.
 
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