Do you know anyone that failed out of med school?

[mrbreakfast]

Several people in my year have either dropped out or taken indefinite leaves of absence, mostly related to Step 1.

My school has minimum required grades on some practice NMBEs to sit for Step 1 (like 192 or something). Had two friends who didn't meet them, both took extended time and eventually passed.

However, also have a friend who remediated multiple classes in M1 and M2, never passed an NMBE, and repeated the year. This person was actually advised to drop out by the administration, but went through M2 anyway. Failed every NMBE and failed Step 1, and it wasn't close. Great, caring person, but dropped out after that.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[libertyyne]

Several people in my year have either dropped out or taken indefinite leaves of absence, mostly related to Step 1.

My school has minimum required grades on some practice NMBEs to sit for Step 1 (like 192 or something). Had two friends who didn't meet them, both took extended time and eventually passed.

However, also have a friend who remediated multiple classes in M1 and M2, never passed an NMBE, and repeated the year. This person was actually advised to drop out by the administration, but went through M2 anyway. Failed every NMBE and failed Step 1, and it wasn't close. Great, caring person, but dropped out after that.

Is this a us school?

 

[neoexile]

Is this a us school?

Known 4 people to fail out of US school

 

[mrbreakfast]

Is this a us school?

Yep. Step 1 class average is well above the mean, but there was a direct admit program that takes ~20 students from undergrad without having to take MCAT. The overlap between those students and those who have to delay Step is pretty significant, and they actually have since discontinued the program because of that.

Based on what I've heard from friends at other schools, students failing out of preclinical years is not extremely uncommon.

 

[libertyyne]

Yep. Step 1 class average is well above the mean, but there was a direct admit program that takes ~20 students from undergrad without having to take MCAT. The overlap between those students and those who have to delay Step is pretty significant, and they actually have since discontinued the program because of that.

Based on what I've heard from friends at other schools, students failing out of preclinical years is not extremely uncommon.

Attrition rates are still below 5 % for most schools , realastically closer to 1-2 %. I didn't know some us schools force nbme pass prior to sitting for boards as I thought Carib schools do that more often, but it makes sense.

 

[Stagg737]

Attrition rates are still below 5 % for most schools , realastically closer to 1-2 %. I didn't know some us schools force nbme pass prior to sitting for boards as I thought Carib schools do that more often, but it makes sense.

Several do. My school used to have a comprehensive test at the end of first year that students were required to pass before moving on to second year. If they failed they had to repeat the year or drop and apparently every year there were 1-2 people that wouldn't make the cut. They no longer do this at my school, but I've heard of a few US schools (MD and DO) that have something similar (typically passing NBME).

 

[libertyyne]

Several do. My school used to have a comprehensive test at the end of first year that students were required to pass before moving on to second year. If they failed they had to repeat the year or drop and apparently every year there were 1-2 people that wouldn't make the cut. They no longer do this at my school, but I've heard of a few US schools (MD and DO) that have something similar (typically passing NBME).

makes sense, you want to make sure people pass. What is the attrition rate for DO schools like?

 

[IlDestriero]

In my class nobody failed out. One girl repeated 1st year and went on to graduate. 2 people got kicked out for cheating with each other. One guy dropped out really early 1st year and one dropped out in 4th year!


--
Il Destriero

 

[Goro]

makes sense, you want to make sure people pass. What is the attrition rate for DO schools like?

At my school it's 0% for the '21s, and maybe 1-2% for the 20's. Our worst year was ~6%, with some being dismissed and some taking LOA and repeating the year.

We may lose maybe 1-2 students every now and then in OMSIII and IV for failing to pass COMLEX or for professionalism issues.

 

[Stagg737]

makes sense, you want to make sure people pass. What is the attrition rate for DO schools like?

From the (limited) knowledge I have about DO schools, they are essentially the same as US MD schools. Just looked up the info for the school I attend, the 4 year graduation rate is between 87-92% for the past 6 graduating classes and the 5 year rate is between 93-96% (each year at least 8-10 students do fellowships, which add a year). I also attend a school with large class sizes, so we lose a fair amount of people because they choose to pursue other paths or return to their previous career.

 

[moisne]

As someone who has failed step 1 twice, med students have very biased unrealistic views on a lot of stuff. The first being you can take any guy off the street give him FA and time to study and he can pass Step 1 I had a decent MCAT, never failed a single class in the first 2 years, and I just can’t get past this test. There is just way too much ****ing stuff to remember. Med students act as if its normal to be able to memorize everything in an 800 page book and a 2500 question Q bank, no that **** is not normal. No matter how many times I go over this **** I just can’t retain it and that’s probably genetic. A lot of med students don’t have problems with step 1 and assume because they didn’t that anybody could do it. Thats like saying anybody could be a running back in the NFL if they are willing to work hard enough.

Maybe the reason you keep failing is because you never figured out the exam. I'd say I have one of the worst memorization abilities among my peers. You probably aren't studying right. Memorizing a million individual facts is impossible for most people. It sounds like you aren't connecting the facts.

 

[BMC11]

I have friends who completed doctorates at top programs in engineering and computer science and lmao, they were such slackers. Not buying it.

PSA: I hate fighting on the internet but this is my honest opinion based on doing both degrees. I am not trying to personally insult you. I’m sure you’re a lovely loveable human.

I got a doctorate before medical school like a bunch of these other posters. The experience was equally hard to medical school but in a totally different way—there is an enormous degree of uncertainty in science and research that leaves a good graduate student in a state of constant fear and unease. Additionally, you alone are responsible for your projects with often minimal and very distant guidance. If you aren’t creative, you can’t ask great questions, and you don’t know how to best get the answers to those questions, you just don’t survive (and no one gives a ****—hello attrition, we welcome you).

One of the things I appreciate about medical school is the support system and the predictability of the education process. It’s comfortable.
However, the volume of information in Med school is soul crushing and that’s what puts it on an equal playing field with my PhD experience.

As for knowing slackers—I knew slackers too, and I was in possibly the top program for my field in the US. They worked really hard to get in and when they got there, just petered out. The slackers graduated but they never graduated on time. they were not well respected by their faculty or peers, they didn’t get grants, and they weren’t wildly successful afterwards. Don’t use a handful of losers (which exist in every field—even medicine) to broadly define entire fields of critically important work. It’s quite small minded (and if we met in person and you said this to my face, I would totally rip you a new butthole—as I have several of my classmates who think they’re world experts even though they’ve never set foot in a lab or a graduate degree program of any kind).

 

[caroliiine]

Do you know anyone that failed out of medical school? Do you know why they failed out? I'm struggling and I wonder why other students fail out.

What did you expect about medical school? A piece of cake?

 

[Skenti]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here. I’m a second semester M1 in a 1.5 yr curriculum and I came in with a ~3.9 gpa and 100th percentile MCAT. I’m in the bottom 10-15% of my class. I’ve passed multiple tests by a single point. Being good at college or at the MCAT is very, very different than being good at medical school. I’m great with concepts and pretty bad at memorizing. College played to my strengths (mostly conceptual stuff) and medical school, which is mostly memorizing, is extremely difficult for me.

Anyway, my point is that these stories about great college students failing out of medical school don’t surprise me in the slightest.

 

[21Rush12]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here. I’m a second semester M1 in a 1.5 yr curriculum and I came in with a ~3.9 gpa and 100th percentile MCAT. I’m in the bottom 10-15% of my class. I’ve passed multiple tests by a single point. Being good at college or at the MCAT is very, very different than being good at medical school. I’m great with concepts and pretty bad at memorizing. College played to my strengths (mostly conceptual stuff) and medical school, which is mostly memorizing, is extremely difficult for me.

Anyway, my point is that these stories about great college students failing out of medical school don’t surprise me in the slightest.

I completely understand. I promise it gets better, hang in there!

 

[hmockingbird]

We could repeat one class — this was not uncommon. Had maybe 2-3 per year who repeated a year? One of my friends didn’t pass step 1 on the first try then kind of ghosted out of embarrassment so ended up getting with the next class by the time they ended up taking the repeat (and passed and is now in a good residency). The only person I was worried about/thought should have been dismissed was this girl who was book smart but really terrible at time management and life stuff, like would randomly go on vacation the weekend before a test or start a time intense hobby-related activity during the worst classes. Like... obviously you failed multiple classes. Somehow matched into surgery and I hope either got her crap together in a big way or her program is strict bc I don’t want someone that flighty to be my surgeon. You gotta be dedicated/responsible at some point.

 

[akuko2]

I think the point @BMC11 made about the culture of US medical schools can't be overstated. Once you are in, most schools will do whatever it takes to make sure that you graduate which is a big deal. My wife is a nurse and in nursing school she started with a class of 200 or so and only 60 graduated. Throughout her education there was a sink or swim mentality and the only thing you'd get from the admin if you were struggling was a shrugged shoulder. That is not to say that nursing is anywhere near as rigorous of a curriculum, but for all the suck that medschool can be I'm glad our schools look out for us.

 

[neusu]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here. I’m a second semester M1 in a 1.5 yr curriculum and I came in with a ~3.9 gpa and 100th percentile MCAT. I’m in the bottom 10-15% of my class. I’ve passed multiple tests by a single point. Being good at college or at the MCAT is very, very different than being good at medical school. I’m great with concepts and pretty bad at memorizing. College played to my strengths (mostly conceptual stuff) and medical school, which is mostly memorizing, is extremely difficult for me.

Anyway, my point is that these stories about great college students failing out of medical school don’t surprise me in the slightest.

You can not be 100th percentile..

 

[mimelim]

You can not be 100th percentile..

Maybe he can't, but I can. Just have to be more awesome.


On topic...
My school should have failed more people. They didn't do the students or in some cases their future residencies/patients any favors by not failing them early.

 

[libertyyne]

Maybe he can't, but I can. Just have to be more awesome.


On topic...
My school should have failed more people. They didn't do the students or in some cases their future residencies/patients any favors by not failing them early.

are you speaking of ethical or knowledge based shortcomings that should have prompted such action?

 

[Goro]

are you speaking of ethical or knowledge based shortcomings that should have prompted such action?

I suspect that the answer is "yes".

 

[QueenJames]

Maybe the reason you keep failing is because you never figured out the exam. I'd say I have one of the worst memorization abilities among my peers. You probably aren't studying right. Memorizing a million individual facts is impossible for most people. It sounds like you aren't connecting the facts.

The time he spends complaining and bishing on SDN about that exam can be used to ... idk....

STUDY.

We all have the same 24 hours dude. That guy/gal just doesn't seem to use them well.

Hopefully it works out for him but I'm in the camp that YES....memorizing a million facts IS POSSIBLE.

We've probably learned and forgotten a million facts by the end of 2nd year of medical school buddy.

You can relearn it again and it SHOULD come by quicker the third/fourth time you do it.

 

[binny]

I did a video on this topic. It's my own personal story based on my being a medical student at Temple from 1975 through 1979. Yes, that's right. I hung in there until 10 months before getting my MD. I chose to drop out...quit. The film is called Chasing Demons 600 miles on the Finger Lakes Trail. You can find it on Vimeo.
In fact, my picture (on the left of the screen) was used for the cover.
My story has a peculiar twist that might explain why many do fail.

 

[binny]

I was in medical school (Temple) from '75 through '79. I quit 10 months shy of receiving my MD degree.
I did a video on my experience. The setting is a backpacking trip where I reflect back 40 years while dealing with recurrent nightmares.
It's called "Chasing Demons 600 miles on the Finger Lakes Trail." Search for it on Vimeo.
I haven't heard a story quite like mine, but I suspect it applies to many.

 

[goomer67]

Yeah. Me. I failed out in October although technically I am actually on leave until next year to try again. It was devastating, it is devastating. What is worse is I don’t know why I couldn’t pass. I mean I was at the top of my class in college. When I took organic I got the highest grade out of 500+ students. I couldn’t figure out the system in med school. I am ashamed—when I got into medical school, it was because professors, doctors, mentors—they believed in me, they had no doubts in me—and I have let all of us down. Utter defeat. I wish I could tell you why, but hopefully I’ll figure it out this year. Luckily this has been so soul crushing and I am so depressed I am seeing a shrinks and therapists, and hopefully they’ll help me figure it out. Hah

All I know is these are the darkest days I’ve ever seen, and that’s coming from a ex 18 yo heroin addict. Good thing I have those memories to know these days will pass, and I can’t give up because I know I can do this med school thing one day.

Blah, sorrynotsorry for emotional word vomit attack—it’s the best I could do. Hope you have managed to hang in there and stay afloat—maybe even swim a little!!

I don't know if things might have changed since the early 2000s, but it would help to know whether or not you actually failed out, therefore withdrew, or were dismissed outright.

Withdrawing from med school enables the student to a possibility for later reinstatement should they have the means to prove any previous issues precluding their earlier success have subsequently been addressed and conquered.

I only know all this because I lived it, myself.

In the end though I wound up voluntarily withdrawing for the second time at what amounted to be the end of my third year (sans Family Med rotation).

 

[MSTPlease]

I don't know why I'm keeping this resurrected thread alive but it's interesting to hear that failing out of medical school is so common because I'm fairly certain that my original class didn't have a single person fail out. We had a few people drop out before our first class even finished so they literally couldn't have "failed out," and the only person I know who left after that was definitely not failing. Yes, we had people fail individual courses or Step 1 and even had one person have to remediate all of first year (HuMed student who somehow didn't even have middle/high school level biology knowledge - like in anatomy she was unable to answer "describe the path food takes from the mouth to the anus" - not "describe and point to/identify every structure" just "describe") but I think the actual "fail out" number was 0. There were people who failed to match to their desired specialty or beyond a prelim year but they either matched into something else, did a 5th year and matched the following year, or reapplied as an intern and matched into a PGY-2 position the following year. One of my former classmates dropped out of residency and left medicine but everyone else is still chugging along.

You can not be 100th percentile..

If a report only has 2 digits (which is often the case) and you are at the 99.5th percentile or above you are in the 100th percentile.

PSA: I hate fighting on the internet but this is my honest opinion based on doing both degrees. I am not trying to personally insult you. I’m sure you’re a lovely loveable human.

I got a doctorate before medical school like a bunch of these other posters. The experience was equally hard to medical school but in a totally different way—there is an enormous degree of uncertainty in science and research that leaves a good graduate student in a state of constant fear and unease. Additionally, you alone are responsible for your projects with often minimal and very distant guidance. If you aren’t creative, you can’t ask great questions, and you don’t know how to best get the answers to those questions, you just don’t survive (and no one gives a ****—hello attrition, we welcome you).

One of the things I appreciate about medical school is the support system and the predictability of the education process. It’s comfortable.
However, the volume of information in Med school is soul crushing and that’s what puts it on an equal playing field with my PhD experience.

As for knowing slackers—I knew slackers too, and I was in possibly the top program for my field in the US. They worked really hard to get in and when they got there, just petered out. The slackers graduated but they never graduated on time. they were not well respected by their faculty or peers, they didn’t get grants, and they weren’t wildly successful afterwards. Don’t use a handful of losers (which exist in every field—even medicine) to broadly define entire fields of critically important work. It’s quite small minded (and if we met in person and you said this to my face, I would totally rip you a new butthole—as I have several of my classmates who think they’re world experts even though they’ve never set foot in a lab or a graduate degree program of any kind).

Thinking about my MD and my PhD, the academic/intellectual difficulty and which was harder can probably be debated (although I'd argue the PhD was harder), which was more stress/anxiety provoking wasn't even close though (MD was a cakewalk in comparison to the PhD)

EDIT: If you've never looked up the origin of "cakewalk" I recommend doing so. Learned a few weeks ago where it comes from and it will surprise you.